Thoughts/Input on my Whispers Bard?

[XobombaX]

Hey Everybody!

This is my first post.

I'm just looking for some feedback and possible direction/advice for a character I am making right now. This is my first 5th Edition campaign, but I have played 3 campaigns with Pathfinder 3.5 so I'm somewhat familiar with how a tabletop works.

I'm not necessarily trying to min/max, as I do value the added flavor of certain elements of the game (like the charms of the Whispers Bard,) but I also would like to not suck either lol.

I'm already level 5 in this homebrew campaign and I am playing a Half Elf College of Whispers Bard. My stats, factoring in items that boost, as of now are:

Str: 10
Int: 12
Wis: 12
Dex: 17
Con:12
Cha: 20
(They are high because my group rolled for stats rather than use a standard point buy)

Current Feats: Sharpshooter

My thoughts for the direction of this character is to be a very charming manipulator that is also able to hold himself well in combat. I've been using a hand crossbow when I'm not using spells and I've really enjoyed that sort of playstyle.

I'm not so much worried about buffing the team as I am about causing mass hysteria on the battlefield through the use of spells/stealth.

I was thinking about multiclassing a few levels into rogue (possibly arcane trickster for added flavor,) but our DM won't allow us to multiclass until level 10.

What suggestions would any of you have for spells/feats I should go for to suit this sort of playstyle/direction?

Thank you all for your input! I really appreciate it and look forward to all of what you have to say!

[Quoxis]

With an int of 12, all your arcane trickster spells will have a DC of 11 and no big to hit bonus - or to say it more directly, they’re going to suck.
If you go that way, make sure to grab spells that rely on neither attack rolls nor saves.
Look at other rogue subclasses too, as some mix well with your whisper bard features - mastermind makes that whole shadow-steal-disguise thing even easier to pull off, for example (although that might depend on your GM; if they’re like „yeah, cool“ it‘d be unnecessary overkill, if they’re like „but person A knows that the former owner of that shadow has an accent and a deeper voice, so you have disadvantage on your deception“ it might be needed to actually work).
Assassin on the other hand works great on a high dex bard too - a commonly ignored fact is that rolling initiative is an unskilled Dex check, so a bard‘s jack of all trades applies, essentially adding half your proficiency to your initiative by default, so on your first turn you’re bound to have some opponents within range to get advantage on by hitting first - if you crit, not only your sneak attack but also your psychic blades crit too.

Using spells stealthily is something regularly causing disputes - performing verbal and somatic components might be too obvious to do while sneaking up on the unsuspecting guard. The main way to get this is by adding 3 levels of sorcerer for the subtle metamagic or by having a generous GM.

[XobombaX]

With an int of 12, all your arcane trickster spells will have a DC of 11 and no big to hit bonus - or to say it more directly, they’re going to suck.
If you go that way, make sure to grab spells that rely on neither attack rolls nor saves.
Look at other rogue subclasses too, as some mix well with your whisper bard features - mastermind makes that whole shadow-steal-disguise thing even easier to pull off, for example (although that might depend on your GM; if they’re like „yeah, cool“ it‘d be unnecessary overkill, if they’re like „but person A knows that the former owner of that shadow has an accent and a deeper voice, so you have disadvantage on your deception“ it might be needed to actually work).
Assassin on the other hand works great on a high dex bard too - a commonly ignored fact is that rolling initiative is an unskilled Dex check, so a bard‘s jack of all trades applies, essentially adding half your proficiency to your initiative by default, so on your first turn you’re bound to have some opponents within range to get advantage on by hitting first - if you crit, not only your sneak attack but also your psychic blades crit too.

Using spells stealthily is something regularly causing disputes - performing verbal and somatic components might be too obvious to do while sneaking up on the unsuspecting guard. The main way to get this is by adding 3 levels of sorcerer for the subtle metamagic or by having a generous GM.

Hey thanks for your input! I really appreciate it.

Yeah, I was heavily considering the assassin rogue because that damage potential is considerably higher than what I would have as an arcane trickster. I'd probably only take 3 levels of rogue no matter what subclass, so with arcane trickster I would just take a couple more Cantrips and Find Familiar as a 1st level wizard spell. (I really think playing around/with a familiar could be fun.)

As far as feats and action economy are concerned, what do you think of getting the crossbow expert and elven accuracy feats? I'm not too entirely sure how all of the actions work in this edition yet. If I took the Swift Quiver spell with my Magical Secrets as a bard, alongside those feats listed above, what would my options be?

I ask about Swift Quiver because I see it mentioned by many people as being overpowered in some circumstances.

I know I said I'm not necessarily trying to Min/Max, but in game one of my party members who is playing a monk is my rival and we're always competing on who is more capable in battle 😂 it's definitely interesting trying to compete as a bard.

[Quoxis]

Hey thanks for your input! I really appreciate it.

Yeah, I was heavily considering the assassin rogue because that damage potential is considerably higher than what I would have as an arcane trickster. I'd probably only take 3 levels of rogue no matter what subclass, so with arcane trickster I would just take a couple more Cantrips and Find Familiar as a 1st level wizard spell. (I really think playing around/with a familiar could be fun.)

As far as feats and action economy are concerned, what do you think of getting the crossbow expert and elven accuracy feats? I'm not too entirely sure how all of the actions work in this edition yet. If I took the Swift Quiver spell with my Magical Secrets as a bard, alongside those feats listed above, what would my options be?

I ask about Swift Quiver because I see it mentioned by many people as being overpowered in some circumstances.

I know I said I'm not necessarily trying to Min/Max, but in game one of my party members who is playing a monk is my rival and we're always competing on who is more capable in battle 😂 it's definitely interesting trying to compete as a bard.

Rogues‘ sneak attack and bard’s psychic blades both only work once per turn, so swift quiver gives you an additional 2d4 per turn for a bonus action (after the turn you waste your bonus action on casting the spell)... rogues generally have better options for their bonus action, and if you get crossbow master you can attack once per turn as a bonus action anyway - i‘d say grab a better spell with your magical secrets.

As for elven accuracy: definitely get it. Advantage now gives you an additional chance to crit, and as i said: psychic blades and sneak attack both crit too.

[XobombaX]

Rogues‘ sneak attack and bard’s psychic blades both only work once per turn, so swift quiver gives you an additional 2d4 per turn for a bonus action (after the turn you waste your bonus action on casting the spell)... rogues generally have better options for their bonus action, and if you get crossbow master you can attack once per turn as a bonus action anyway - i‘d say grab a better spell with your magical secrets.

As for elven accuracy: definitely get it. Advantage now gives you an additional chance to crit, and as i said: psychic blades and sneak attack both crit too.

Ahh okay sick man, I appreciate that.

I'm pretty stoked for the way that this character is going to go.

OK, so swift quiver would be a waste. What other options for magical secrets would you suggest? I was thinking teleport for one of them simply because I am the only spellcaster in the whole party. (Party makeup by the way is a ranger, monk, paladin, and myself as a bard.)

We're also playing a homebrew campaign with a similar story to that of something like Blizzard's Diablo. Lots of demons/undead and there are multiple rifts opening up throughout the land.

Haste is also a spell I'm considering simply because of the massive potential it has obviously, but aside from those two, I'm kind of overwhelmed with my options.

[Quoxis]

Ahh okay sick man, I appreciate that.

I'm pretty stoked for the way that this character is going to go.

OK, so swift quiver would be a waste. What other options for magical secrets would you suggest? I was thinking teleport for one of them simply because I am the only spellcaster in the whole party. (Party makeup by the way is a ranger, monk, paladin, and myself as a bard.)

We're also playing a homebrew campaign with a similar story to that of something like Blizzard's Diablo. Lots of demons/undead and there are multiple rifts opening up throughout the land.

Haste is also a spell I'm considering simply because of the massive potential it has obviously, but aside from those two, I'm kind of overwhelmed with my options.

https://www.reddit.com/r/dndnext/comments/3s8906/all_core_magical_secrets_picks_for_bard/

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?544383-Magical-secrets-now-that-XGtE-is-out

The spell list you can choose from at 10th level has tens if not a hundred of different spells. Rating those is too much for one person on a week night, so i‘d advise you to either google, look at some bard guides or to simply play for a bit and ask again later when you‘ve got a feeling for a) the rules and action economy and b) what exactly you want out of it - damage dealing, control, buffs, debuffs... then there’s always the question about what to spend actions/bonus actions on, what spells to concentrate on etc. etc. (can‘t use call lightning if you already need to concentrate on haste, can’t cast fireball and do weapon attacks on the same turn etc.)

Play it slowly. Take your time to accomodate. Then take haste anyway because it’s a great spell. Just kidding.

Edit: looking at you fighting lots of outsiders/creatures from different planes: what about banishment (4th level) or banishing smite (5th level)? Both can take a big mean demon out of combat, ideally even out of the game by banishing it back to wherever it came from.