I just got Oblivion and I'm already hating it.

[MonkeySage]

My friends who've played this game have all sold me up on it- they've all told me what a good game it was. And I've seen people saying it's one of the best Elder Scrolls games out there. I was especially looking forward to shivering isles.

And Immediately, one of the first quests I get forces me to play around with this persuasion wheel minigame. So, after wasting 250 gold bribing people, I decide to get a mod that helps me skip this horrible minigame- the mod works with what's there, though, so it's barely an improvement. I ended up having to use voice of the emperor to get the orc to testify. The quest needed me to convince two people to testify against a corrupt guard.

After I managed that, i'm supposed to go back to the guard captain and tell him two people are ready to testify. And I don't even have the option to tell him. I talk to him about a corrupt guard, and he just tells me I need to get two people to testify- which I've already done.

[factotum]

It took me around 20 levels before I developed the proper hatred of Oblivion as a game, so you've managed it pretty fast! :smallsmile:

[Rodin]

I went back to try out Oblivion earlier this year. The game has not aged well in the slightest, and that's without considering the problems the game had at launch (namely, the very much incomplete Radiant AI and voice acting before Bethesda realized you have to record a LOT of dialogue to make up for the loss of Morrowind-style text). Bethesda took a lot of lessons about world design from Oblivion and applied them to Skyrim, and it's kind of painful to go back to Oblivion now.

[halfeye]

I don't do that persuasion wheel thing at all myself, which may be why I still like the game.

There are scrolls and spells of persuasion you can use instead, when you really need to, which in my experience is pretty rarely.

[warty goblin]

I never minded the persuasion minigame. It's dirt easy, particularly if you level up Speechcraft enough so you can turn the wheel without selecting anything, and I at least find it marginally more entertaining than a static check that my whatever attribute is high enough, or a percentage chance of success based on an attribute.

Plus, essentially zero crafting!

[Spore]

Honestly while Oblivion in itself is not a bad game, I certainly would say both Skyrim and Morrowind are better. Morrowind has a deeper lore and is more of an RPG in the traditional sense. Skyrim's story is more concise and the controls and game systems are more streamlined. Oblivion is the odd middle child. A hybrid between ultimate customization (build-a-spell, varied ways to enter several guilds, with a single character not being able to do everything) and general approach (Brotherhood quests don't care about open murder, Mage's guild does only require very rudimentary magical skills before making you archmage).

[warty goblin]

I much preferred Oblivion to Skyrim. Mostly because Skyrim felt pretty much exactly like Oblivion, except with a more obtuse menu system - a distinct accomplishment in the realm of sucky UI - a bunch of crafting nonsense and a plot that couldn't go three sentences without rubbing my face in just how awesome I was supposed to be. Most of the clunk from Oblivion was still there, the melee combat reaching the heights of barely acceptable, archery that... exists and maybe an improved magic system. Not sure, I have no interest in playing a wizard.

But that clunk that I'll forgive in a mid 2000s game doing some, for the time, pretty new and ambitious stuff I'm much less forgiving of in a more modern one that barely builds on the previous title. Particularly given that by that point in time, other studios were able to make open world games that didn't have mediocre systems for pretty much everything.

[factotum]

Oblivion remains the only Elder Scrolls game I've made a proper start on and yet could never stomach completing. The utterly broken way they implemented level scaling sapped any sense of immersion or fun out of the game for me--part of the point of levelling up in an RPG is so you can defeat enemies you were struggling with a few levels ago, IMHO, and that just never happened in Oblivion, because the monsters you'd been struggling with would be replaced with a different, even harder one when you went back. Not to mention the complete lack of logic to it--this place was all wolves a while ago, now there's nothing but mountain lions here?

[Rodin]

Oblivion remains the only Elder Scrolls game I've made a proper start on and yet could never stomach completing. The utterly broken way they implemented level scaling sapped any sense of immersion or fun out of the game for me--part of the point of levelling up in an RPG is so you can defeat enemies you were struggling with a few levels ago, IMHO, and that just never happened in Oblivion, because the monsters you'd been struggling with would be replaced with a different, even harder one when you went back. Not to mention the complete lack of logic to it--this place was all wolves a while ago, now there's nothing but mountain lions here?

Since you could start anywhere/go anywhere, the leveling up of the monsters didn't bother me so much. The bigger problem was the human enemies, who got upgraded equipment with no limit. To start with, this isn't too bad - a brigand in leather with a rusty knife gets replaced by a brigand in chain mail with a steel sword. Fine. But then, it gets silly.

I did an early game quest to lock myself in the General Store overnight and catch the thieves who were nicking his stuff. When the thieves came in, they were each wearing a full set of Elven armor, with Elven weapons. Each thief was carrying more money on his back than the entire store was worth. It was just so ludicrous.

[GloatingSwine]

The persuasion wheel is actually pretty easy.

Look at the horrible gurning the potato faced mutant in front of you is doing as you hover over each option, and pick the fat pies when they're on happy faces and the thin pies when they're on angry faces.

[veti]

Yeah... Skyrim is the game Oblivion was trying to be. Oblivion does have its charm, and sometimes I get nostalgic for it, but then I remember the aspects already mentioned in this thread and the nostalgia pretty much evaporates.

It takes a lot of modding to fix all that, and I'm not sure anyone ever quite got there. Simpler just to play Skyrim.

[Eldan]

Can I suggest something? Do enough of the main quest to see one Oblivion Gate, go explore one Ayleid ruin, join the Dark Brotherhood and then go play Shivering Isles. You'll probably have seen 80-90% of all that's worthwhile in the game.

Oh, and mod the hell out of it. Skyrim is perfectly playable without mods, it's just improved. Oblivion... not so much.

[Ignimortis]

Yeah... Skyrim is the game Oblivion was trying to be. Oblivion does have its charm, and sometimes I get nostalgic for it, but then I remember the aspects already mentioned in this thread and the nostalgia pretty much evaporates.

It takes a lot of modding to fix all that, and I'm not sure anyone ever quite got there. Simpler just to play Skyrim.

Considering Skyrim takes about as much modding to get actually good, I wouldn't just dismiss Oblivion like that.

While the graphics look terribly dated, mostly because it was a weird era of middle 00s, and nobody got out of it intact, the core gameplay patterns are usually more enjoyable for me, and I'd say combat feels about the same, but the questlines are significantly more detailed and interesting.

For instance, IMO, Fighters' Guild is much better than Companions, Mages' Guild is at least presuming you're using magic for some challenges in the quests, and the Dark Brotherhood is far better executed (heh) in Oblivion. Shivering Isles is widely touted as the best Elder Scrolls expansion pack ever, and it mostly is.

[Resileaf]

Oblivion was the first Elder Scrolls game I've played, and it made me play Morrowind afterwards, which felt clunky and alien in concept in comparison (fear not, Morrowind if my favorite of the series now). Even though I fully accept Oblivion's flaws and agree that it's objectively a mostly average game (today, at least. When it came out, it was goddamn revolutionary), the nostalgia factor is enough to make me forget about its flaws and just enjoy it for what it is.

Plus I think that out of all the Elder Scrolls game, it's the more mod-friendly one.

[halfeye]

One thing, though the opponents level up with you, NPCs don't. For that reason, it's a very good idea to do a lot of the main quest early on, because then the NPCs are powerful, and can help you, whereas later they are confetti, and get wiped out at the drop of a hat, which can be a problem. I still buy the spell (name escapes me, but it is effectively heal other), and use it between fights where possible.

[Wookieetank]

Can I suggest something? Do enough of the main quest to see one Oblivion Gate, go explore one Ayleid ruin, join the Dark Brotherhood and then go play Shivering Isles. You'll probably have seen 80-90% of all that's worthwhile in the game.

I'll 2nd this. So much of Oblivion is lacking in the fantastic part of fantasy, but all of this is quite memorable. The biggest issue for me with Oblivion is that coming to it after the diverse and colorful setting of Morrowind, made most of what you see in Oblivion terribly bland and boring.

[ufo]

I feel that Oblivion is underrated for it's mechanical qualities, at least as a sandbox. I could never get proper into Skyrim because I felt mechanically hamstringed, compared to Oblivion where I could get better at running and jumping until I were a superhuman who could leap from street to rooftop. It made actually taking every character far into the game and doing quests in different orders in different playthroughs worthwhile, because at higher levels many new approaches opened from the interaction between skills - often in complete broken ways, but it's fun :smalltongue:

Also, as was mentioned, specific parts are very well written, like the Dark Brotherhood. Others seem like the narrative equivalent of vomit, like the darn oblivion gates, ugh.

[halfeye]

the darn oblivion gates, ugh.

I like the oblivion gates. There aren't that many varieties, but they are fun, and the sigil stones are (sometimes) a fine reward.

[Starbuck_II]

Since you could start anywhere/go anywhere, the leveling up of the monsters didn't bother me so much. The bigger problem was the human enemies, who got upgraded equipment with no limit. To start with, this isn't too bad - a brigand in leather with a rusty knife gets replaced by a brigand in chain mail with a steel sword. Fine. But then, it gets silly.

I did an early game quest to lock myself in the General Store overnight and catch the thieves who were nicking his stuff. When the thieves came in, they were each wearing a full set of Elven armor, with Elven weapons. Each thief was carrying more money on his back than the entire store was worth. It was just so ludicrous.

I had fun killing guards after being chased into that nearby cave at beginning. Good gear, good fighting exp, good deal. I made a killing as a thief (no pun intended). Later as a thief I paid off my reduced gold payment for the crime.

Most people might decide to restore a save, but I made it a legend. The guards there still talk to this day about the rookie who killed legions of their guards and somehow walks free.

[darksolitaire]

My fondest memories from Oblivion come from making 10 identical buff spells and running fast enough to make my computer freeze as the game was trying and failing to load new areas. Or jumping over the map. Or crafting a magic weapon powered by souls of the damned that kills everything in the room once it hits something and needs to be constantly recharged. Those were more innocent times.

[Starwulf]

Oblivion remains the only Elder Scrolls game I've made a proper start on and yet could never stomach completing. The utterly broken way they implemented level scaling sapped any sense of immersion or fun out of the game for me--part of the point of levelling up in an RPG is so you can defeat enemies you were struggling with a few levels ago, IMHO, and that just never happened in Oblivion, because the monsters you'd been struggling with would be replaced with a different, even harder one when you went back. Not to mention the complete lack of logic to it--this place was all wolves a while ago, now there's nothing but mountain lions here?

I'm not that fond of Oblivion myself, it's probably my least liked Elder Scrolls game, even behind Arena, and yet for some reason, it's the only Elder Scrolls game that I've ever finished the main quest for. I've started Morrowind dozens, maybe even hundreds of times(that's no exaggeration either), and every time I've made it it a little further, but I've never finished it. Daggerfall I never even really got started, I always got to side-tracked doing random stuff, Arena I barely remember, and Skyrim I've made it maybe a third of the way through, but then always get side-tracked hunting down dragons and random dungeons.

I think it's maybe because Oblivion's MQ involved going into the demon rifts and stuff, which I really enjoyed, so it was basically a by-product of my exploration of every rift I came across that I ended up completing the MQ.


My fondest memories from Oblivion come from making 10 identical buff spells and running fast enough to make my computer freeze as the game was trying and failing to load new areas. Or jumping over the map. Or crafting a magic weapon powered by souls of the damned that kills everything in the room once it hits something and needs to be constantly recharged. Those were more innocent times.

Are you sure you're not thinking of Morrowind? I don't recall being able to stack enough buffs to be able to jump over the map in Oblivion, but in Morrowind it was simplicity itself to do so, hell, walking out of the first village you have that guy that falls down from the sky and has the scrolls of jump on him that are so super-powered you can jump from the starter village to the starter city(I mean, you won't survive, not if you do it at level 1, but yeah).

[Rynjin]

Are you sure you're not thinking of Morrowind? I don't recall being able to stack enough buffs to be able to jump over the map in Oblivion, but in Morrowind it was simplicity itself to do so, hell, walking out of the first village you have that guy that falls down from the sky and has the scrolls of jump on him that are so super-powered you can jump from the starter village to the starter city(I mean, you won't survive, not if you do it at level 1, but yeah).


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKuQjmgUS84

[Triaxx]

The best trick is to stack weakness to Magic on yourself and then add on boosts to Acrobatics.

As for Oblivion... Solving the problems is pretty simple. Install Oscuro's Oblivion Overhaul. You're now fixed. It makes the early game harder, but adds enough content, weapons, spells and enemy variety to make the levelling less and issue, as well as make leveling up feel like you're getting stronger.

For vanilla... You end up having to exploit the levelling system. You HAVE to have +5 on your primary stats every single level up in order to succeed. Anything less just results in a catastrophic failure.

[InvisibleBison]

For vanilla... You end up having to exploit the levelling system. You HAVE to have +5 on your primary stats every single level up in order to succeed. Anything less just results in a catastrophic failure.

This is just not true. In my first playthrough of Oblivion, I didn't have any mods and I didn't pay much if any attention to optimizing my leveling. I got my character to level twenty-something, and all I had to do to keep having fun was gradually turn the difficulty slider down.

[factotum]

you have that guy that falls down from the sky and has the scrolls of jump on him that are so super-powered you can jump from the starter village to the starter city(I mean, you won't survive, not if you do it at level 1, but yeah).

It's entirely possible to survive that at level 1--you just have to make sure to cast a second Icarian Flight scroll before you land, because the first one expires while you're still in the air. If you have high enough Acrobatics (which is what Icarian Flight gives you) then you can survive a landing from more or less any altitude.

[Eldan]

And then of course there's those videos on Youtube of people plotting their course so that they start at Seyda Neen and end up in the river in Balmora. Or some pond in front of some cave somewhere.

[Kaptin Keen]

The only real issue I ever had with Oblivion was the oblivion towers. God I hated those. But of course, they're optional - all you really need to do is run past everything and reach the top.

[Triaxx]

We have a vastly different playstyle for oblivion then. And had a much different experience.

[GloatingSwine]

And then of course there's those videos on Youtube of people plotting their course so that they start at Seyda Neen and end up in the river in Balmora. Or some pond in front of some cave somewhere.

Which is how people have completed the main quest in ~7 minutes....

[Eldan]

About 4:30 now, I think.

[Starwulf]

About 4:30 now, I think.

Wow, that's insane. I mean, it only took me a few days of playing to complete it, so I know it was fairly easy/short, but to be able to do it in 4:30? That's kinda nuts.


And then of course there's those videos on Youtube of people plotting their course so that they start at Seyda Neen and end up in the river in Balmora. Or some pond in front of some cave somewhere.

Hmm, I knew you could make it to Balmora from Scyda Neen with the those scrolls, but I can't say the idea ever occurred to me to attempt to land in the river. That's pretty nifty, and now I kinda want to load up Morrowind again, just to try it(and keep on trying until I get it right, LOL).



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKuQjmgUS84

Huh, I stand corrected then! Guess I never fooled around enough with the magic system in Oblivion. To be fair, I never explored much, finished the main quest, did a few side dungeons, and that was about it it.

[Eldan]

There's also a playthrough of Oblivion I found on youtube that's done almost entirely by glitching through the walls of your cell, running around in the void outside until all the cutscenes are triggered, then somehow phasing to the Temple of the one at the moment Dagon shows up.

But yeah. Apparently, the thing to do in Morrowind is still to jump directly to the end dungeon and increase your speed enough that you can kill Dagoth Ur before his dialogue ends. I'm not sure how they go through without Wraithguard, though.

[halfeye]

For vanilla... You end up having to exploit the levelling system. You HAVE to have +5 on your primary stats every single level up in order to succeed. Anything less just results in a catastrophic failure.

I suspect that's not really true, if you do that you end up really overpowered, and the game becomes less challenging. What you have to do is get more than one or two on your most used attributes every time you level up. In fact Morrowind used the same system more or less, you just had a lot more skills to pick from, and somehow that worked out to be a lot more likely to give you three or four upgrades on your attributes per level up, or something. Morrowind is currently not saving games on my system, I don't understand why, or I'd play it a bit more, but at the moment I like Oblivion best, the maps are better than Skyrim's, the local ones aren't brilliant, but Skyrim's local maps are almost totally useless.

[Resileaf]

I suspect that's not really true, if you do that you end up really overpowered, and the game becomes less challenging. What you have to do is get more than one or two on your most used attributes every time you level up. In fact Morrowind used the same system more or less, you just had a lot more skills to pick from, and somehow that worked out to be a lot more likely to give you three or four upgrades on your attributes per level up, or something. Morrowind is currently not saving games on my system, I don't understand why, or I'd play it a bit more, but at the moment I like Oblivion best, the maps are better than Skyrim's, the local ones aren't brilliant, but Skyrim's local maps are almost totally useless.

It's also that Morrowind did not have your surroundings leveling with you. Everything (or almost everything) was at a static difficulty, so leveling up was never a detriment to your adventure. Although you don't need to level perfectly in Oblivion to remain competitive, if you level up badly constantly, you can make things nigh unwinnable unless you put the difficulty slider at the very easiest.

[Talion]

It's also that Morrowind did not have your surroundings leveling with you. Everything (or almost everything) was at a static difficulty, so leveling up was never a detriment to your adventure. Although you don't need to level perfectly in Oblivion to remain competitive, if you level up badly constantly, you can make things nigh unwinnable unless you put the difficulty slider at the very easiest.

There was definitely a lot that didn't level up with you in Morrowind (namely fodder npcs, since those were still individually placed rather than procedural generation of generics). But part of the contributing factor was also that when it DID scale with you, it didn't often scale as much as you did, to the point where it may not have always been noticeable. Things like 'a rat becomes two rats becomes two nix hounds becomes two kagouti' or something like that. Tombs and Dwemer ruins were the prominent places where things could scale up more than the others if I remember correctly. Regardless, there was a clear power cap whenever something spawned/respawned and most of the time you could still see the meaningful effects of your growth and equipment.

As for Oblivion...there are good features about it (most of which have been spoken for) and places that were meaningful improvements over Morrowind, and at the time there were some genuinely incredible things we were seeing in the game, mechanically speaking, but they were also not necessarily substantive and didn't age very well.

[Eldan]

I think I recall that treasure also did scale at least a bit. I remember reading tips like "if you kill enough things to level up, rest before you loot any nearby chests".

[factotum]

There was definitely a lot that didn't level up with you in Morrowind (namely fodder npcs, since those were still individually placed rather than procedural generation of generics). But part of the contributing factor was also that when it DID scale with you, it didn't often scale as much as you did, to the point where it may not have always been noticeable.

I had a play around with the editor that shipped with Morrowind (created myself a pair of Acrobatics boost boots that allowed me to jump from Balmora to Caldera in a single bound without using any fancy Icarian Flight scrolls :smallsmile:), and if I recall correctly, monsters you placed in the game had a range of levels they could be--e.g. a dungeon might have mobs which level from 10-40, so if you went there at level 2 you'd have a rather hard time of it, but if you went there at 50 you'd roll them over no problem. Oblivion seemed to do away with that and have everything, everywhere, able to level up to any arbitrary level to match the player.

[Triaxx]

Given that I managed at one point to lose to a tree, I disagree. I was practicing archery, the physics engine freaked out bounced the arrow back and killed me.

[Talion]

Given that I managed at one point to lose to a tree, I disagree. I was practicing archery, the physics engine freaked out bounced the arrow back and killed me.

Okay, but did you get the sneak attack damage? A crit? In this case I really need some more information because that sounds HILARIOUS. In hindsight.

[Triaxx]

Crit probably, but no sneak attack because I was detecting myself. It was an eleven bow and silver arrow though. I suspect what happened is I tried to stop firing it because I'd run out of the iron arrows I'd been using to practice and it didn't hit the spot I was aiming for and... yeah.

All that aside, I really do like Oblivion. Fewer hidden combat rolls, archery that can occasionally hit an enemy, and do damage. Melee wasn't fantastic, but I have yet to play a game that does have good, solid melee combat. Skyrim and Mount and Blade are two of the best I've found, and those have their problems as well.

[Ignimortis]

Crit probably, but no sneak attack because I was detecting myself. It was an eleven bow and silver arrow though. I suspect what happened is I tried to stop firing it because I'd run out of the iron arrows I'd been using to practice and it didn't hit the spot I was aiming for and... yeah.

All that aside, I really do like Oblivion. Fewer hidden combat rolls, archery that can occasionally hit an enemy, and do damage. Melee wasn't fantastic, but I have yet to play a game that does have good, solid melee combat. Skyrim and Mount and Blade are two of the best I've found, and those have their problems as well.

Try Dark Messiah of Might and Magic. One of the best first-person melee combat systems I've seen, and rather simple too.

[warty goblin]

Try Dark Messiah of Might and Magic. One of the best first-person melee combat systems I've seen, and rather simple too.

One of the interesting things about Dark Messiah is that it uses a directional power attack + light attack system that's very similar to Skyrim or Oblivion. It just puts a lot of work into making it feel physical and dynamic and like you're actually in control, and then making that matter by attaching enough depth to the system for skill to be relevant. So instead of hitting the swing sword button, I aim a descending power attack for my enemy's left shoulder, because enough hits there will cut the dude's arm off and that's faster than whittling away all his HP. The most important part of that is that I can actually aim an attack, instead of just flail wildly.

[DomaDoma]

Given that I managed at one point to lose to a tree, I disagree. I was practicing archery, the physics engine freaked out bounced the arrow back and killed me.

And I think just about everyone's first death in this game involves falling down a gentle slope.

As one of those gamers who prioritizes story and role-playing over any other aspect whatsoever, I mean... the gameplay is bad, but it barely makes a dent in my actual assessment of the game. The dumb radiant/minigame NPC dialogue is a bigger problem, but I raise you 90% of the quests and especially the main quest and, by that token, call it the best TES yet.

[Rynjin]

Oblivion is my favorite Elder scrolls, though it was also my first. If I could play on PC with a controller it would probably be my relaxing game of choice instead of Skyrim, but it has limited controller support by default, and JoyToKey seems to leave out the important element of working joysticks when I try to set it up that way.

[Rodin]

Given that I managed at one point to lose to a tree, I disagree. I was practicing archery, the physics engine freaked out bounced the arrow back and killed me.

Reminds me of the time I managed to headshot myself in Call of Duty. Until that point, I hadn't realized the engine even modeled ricochets.

[veti]

So, here's an interesting fact: the speed running record for Oblivion is just as short. By massively abusing various glitches, it too can be done in under five minutes. Check YouTube for evidence.

Skyrim can't, as far as I can find, because it simply doesn't have those kinds of glitches.

[veti]

Melee wasn't fantastic, but I have yet to play a game that does have good, solid melee combat.

I'm a big fan of Jade Empire, myself. A game where you can pick styles to match your preferred tactics, and then develop them in different ways.

Can't hack people's arms off. But on the other hand (heh), you also can't win most fights by just kicking your opponent into a suspiciously tactical rack of spikes (whose intended function in the world is far from clear, but by Asha it makes Sareth's life easier).

[factotum]

Skyrim can't, as far as I can find, because it simply doesn't have those kinds of glitches.

I've seen a Skyrim speedrun where the guy managed it in under 40 minutes (ignoring loading times)...not sure if it's possible to do it any faster than that.

[Eldan]

And I think just about everyone's first death in this game involves falling down a gentle slope.

As one of those gamers who prioritizes story and role-playing over any other aspect whatsoever, I mean... the gameplay is bad, but it barely makes a dent in my actual assessment of the game. The dumb radiant/minigame NPC dialogue is a bigger problem, but I raise you 90% of the quests and especially the main quest and, by that token, call it the best TES yet.

Really? You rate the long fetch quest for the story's actual main character over Morrowind's main quest?

As for killing yourself, you all still can't beat Space Station 13, where the protip is to never shoot a gun while walking forward, as that carries a distinct chance of walking into your own bullet.

[Rynjin]

I've seen a Skyrim speedrun where the guy managed it in under 40 minutes (ignoring loading times)...not sure if it's possible to do it any faster than that.

The current record is just under 30.

Give it a few more years and it might get shorter, Skyrim has just as many abusable glitches, t just also has some arbitrary wait periods that Oblivion and Morrowind don't.

[veti]

Give it a few more years and it might get shorter, Skyrim has just as many abusable glitches, t just also has some arbitrary wait periods that Oblivion and Morrowind don't.

Well, in that case it doesn't really have "just as many abusable glitches". Because Oblivion also has those wait times, but it turns out you can glitch clean past them...

[Eldan]

Yeah. Go find a glitchy run of Oblivion. The one I saw glitched out of the cell before the Emperor even arrived there, then glitched back in at around the time the Emperor was killed, then glitched directly from there to the end cut scene with Dagon and the Dragon.

[Starbuck_II]

Yeah. Go find a glitchy run of Oblivion. The one I saw glitched out of the cell before the Emperor even arrived there, then glitched back in at around the time the Emperor was killed, then glitched directly from there to the end cut scene with Dagon and the Dragon.
Ever get the glitch where you kill the assassin before he gets the Emperor?
Yeah, that sucks as game has nothing for you. It didn't expect your arrow to crit the assassin. I was just practicing my archery as I walked forward and hit him. He changed back from a guard to a robed assassin when dead.

I had to get alternate start mod so I didn't get that again.

[Triaxx]

Ha, I thought he did the scripted Death Thing like Roggvir. Never managed to actually save him, despite trying.

[LibraryOgre]

Heh. On the speechcraft "game", I quickly did the "One Second Charm" cheat... make a charm spell that has a huge magnitude and a short duration, and cast it before any interaction.

[Triaxx]

I'm always a fan of super buffing personality instead.

[Kitten Champion]

Oblivion was the first TES game I played. For the first 5 hours it was utterly magical. I jumped into a dungeon immediately, exploring the depths, with a torch swaying back and forth with my first person view, having to actively avoid traps, sneaking around bandits, and claiming treasure. I was really happy.

It was only after I started interacting with the NPCs in town that the immersion was lost. I also came to understand the levelling and skill system which is this kind of dully game-y thing as well. I think I ruined the experience entirely after I got summoning magic and realized these NPC summons are far superior combatants than I could ever be, and certainly seem to enjoy it more than I.

I will say, I did like moving at full run-speed with maxed-out athleticism as well as just punching folks. I picked the Brawler... or was it Monk? The class thing at the beginning which I thought mattered more than it did. When I got Skyrim I was disappointed that I couldn't zip around like a cheetah.

[Kareeah_Indaga]

But yeah. Apparently, the thing to do in Morrowind is still to jump directly to the end dungeon and increase your speed enough that you can kill Dagoth Ur before his dialogue ends. I'm not sure how they go through without Wraithguard, though.

I seem to recall seeing a playthrough wherein the person doing the playthrough kept equipping and un-equipping the weapons before the damage effect could kick in, thus no need for Wraithguard.

[Balmas]

Oblivion is such a weird series of contradictions. It has amazing writing, but the writing is hampered and handicapped by the nightmarish voice-acting. The mechanics strike a wonderful balance between the open role-playing support of Morrowind and the smoother combat of Skyrim, but then low weapon damage and heavily scaled enemy health makes combat become a game of slapping each other with pool noodles until somebody falls over. It's a world full of fantastical ruins and dungeons and a plot that takes you through the depths of hell itself, but the palette of each means that once you've gone through more than two or three of them, you've seen virtually all there is to see.

I want to like it, but it... it just wears on me to play it. It's one of my favorite things to watch in a Let's Play, when it's done in transfusions of an hour each, but I'd struggle to ever do another playthrough of my own.

[Cespenar]

Wait, you guys play Oblivion without OOO, MMM, and a bunch of other mods? Weird. :smalltongue:

Facetiousness aside, it's easily the worst vanilla ES game. It's a quite nice chassis to build a game upon, though.


As for killing yourself, you all still can't beat Space Station 13, where the protip is to never shoot a gun while walking forward, as that carries a distinct chance of walking into your own bullet.

That game...

[Eldan]

More a family of games, really. Whenever I try a new server, it always ends up as "What do you mean, on this server you have to alt+left click on something to rotate it, instead of ctrl+left click, you can not climb walls and there's six new kinds of metal, but no detectives?" Ah, the joys of fan-maintained code.

[Rodin]

Wait, you guys play Oblivion without OOO, MMM, and a bunch of other mods? Weird. :smalltongue:

Facetiousness aside, it's easily the worst vanilla ES game. It's a quite nice chassis to build a game upon, though.


I keep on trying to do OOO, but I always find the difficulty too high. Last time I tried earlier this year, I went to the very first dungeon outside the tutorial dungeon, the one literally across the river from where you emerge from the sewers. I could not complete it, getting mauled by the low-level bandits inside unless I save scummed my way into favorable encounters and pulling them one or two at a time. Even then, I still made negative progress in that I ran out of healing items faster than I got them back. I eventually got frustrated again and turned it off.

Change the game so that the level scaling goes away and you can run into fights in deep dungeons that out-level you? Fine.
Change the mechanics so the fighting is more satisfying and requires a bit more tactical thinking? Great!
Up the difficulty so much that I get eaten alive by the fish in the river outside the tutorial dungeon*? No thanks.


*Yes, this also happened - I ended up reloading and crossing the river further away.

[Triaxx]

Oscuro's is weird. My vanilla strategy is stay at level 2. Fighting lots of low level enemies and gaining Azura's Star early. Then once my skills are nearly maxed, I can go on and get some levels because I can alter my stats magically.

With OOO, it doesn't work, but doesn't need to, because leveling is rewarded. I spend the first couple of levels in the imperial city, fighting in the sewers and doing a few of the easy quests. Plus all the lockpicking around town. Stealing isn't important, but picking the locks is. Plus it gives stealth skill, sneaking around the guards. If you're an Altmer who are taller in Oblivion, you can walk down the ramps by the gates to the palace, and sneak in the water down there. The guards can hear, but not see you, so you'll gain XP. Set auto-laser and have a break. I find around 40-50 is the point the guards stop detecting me.

That, plus grabbing the free destruction ring by the Ayleid ruin outside the main bridge makes a great start.

[Cespenar]

More a family of games, really. Whenever I try a new server, it always ends up as "What do you mean, on this server you have to alt+left click on something to rotate it, instead of ctrl+left click, you can not climb walls and there's six new kinds of metal, but no detectives?" Ah, the joys of fan-maintained code.

I honestly quit after I went through a couple of games and enjoyed the beauty which is the "active hand" system.


I keep on trying to do OOO, but I always find the difficulty too high. Last time I tried earlier this year, I went to the very first dungeon outside the tutorial dungeon, the one literally across the river from where you emerge from the sewers. I could not complete it, getting mauled by the low-level bandits inside unless I save scummed my way into favorable encounters and pulling them one or two at a time. Even then, I still made negative progress in that I ran out of healing items faster than I got them back. I eventually got frustrated again and turned it off.

Change the game so that the level scaling goes away and you can run into fights in deep dungeons that out-level you? Fine.
Change the mechanics so the fighting is more satisfying and requires a bit more tactical thinking? Great!
Up the difficulty so much that I get eaten alive by the fish in the river outside the tutorial dungeon*? No thanks.


*Yes, this also happened - I ended up reloading and crossing the river further away.

I don't recall it being impossibly hard. Maybe I used plenty of poisons in the beginning, or healing spells; or maybe I just did a lot of talky quests -- I don't recall, but it was better than adjustment thing by far.

[Aeson]

Up the difficulty so much that I get eaten alive by the fish in the river outside the tutorial dungeon*?
Slaughterfish are nasty at low level even in unmodded Oblivion, especially if you get two or three on you all at once. Fighting in the water sucks if you're primarily a mage who goes in for on-target spells or are an archer or are reliant upon stealth to get early big hits in, and even for melee types it's not great because it's a lot harder to avoid getting hit since you don't move very quickly through water. It's also often difficult to see a slaughterfish coming, because slaughterfish can be anywhere in front of, behind, below, or to the sides of you (or even above you, if you're diving), and because if your character's head is above the water you have to deal with the reflections while if your character's head is under the water you can only see about five feet and non-Argonians need to worry about the breath limit.

Additionally, some of the ones in the vicinity of the Imperial City are special Rumare Slaughterfish, which are tougher and tend to have more powerful attacks, though if I recall correctly all of those are on the other side of the city from the tutorial dungeon if a mod didn't change spawn locations, and they might only spawn while the related quest (the one from the guy in Wye) is active.

[Eldan]

So, my youtube suggestions just turned up a new Morrowind speedrun. Apparently, it's now 3:14.

[veti]

I too found Oscuro's unreasonably hard. There were definitely enemies I could fight at low level - must have been, because eventually I made it to mid levels - but there was absolutely nothing to suggest where I might go to find them. And then the mod also threw in, as I recall, about half a dozen new flavours of bandits, again with absolutely no clue as to how tough you should expect them to be.

I can't even remember now how I survived to the point where it stopped being a continuous trial and became a regular game, but I did it once. And only once. And even at level 15 or so, I'd still regularly get my nether anatomy handed to me by some no-name brigands.

[Ignimortis]

Oscuro's is rather hard in the early game, but it's quite easy to work around if you're not trying to go into dungeons at level 1. Go through some guild quests, grab some decent equipment, maybe do a few matches in the Arena for gold and skill-ups. Basically, if you're doing things a sensible person would do in Tamriel if they wanted to be an adventurer, then you're gonna be alright. If you're bumrushing Daedra at level 1, sucks to be you.

[veti]

Oscuro's is rather hard in the early game, but it's quite easy to work around if you're not trying to go into dungeons at level 1. Go through some guild quests, grab some decent equipment, maybe do a few matches in the Arena for gold and skill-ups. Basically, if you're doing things a sensible person would do in Tamriel if they wanted to be an adventurer, then you're gonna be alright.

Yeah... thing is, it's never really occurred to me to "want to be an adventurer". In Oblivion, I'm just trying to do my modest bit to stop the end of the freakin' world. I barely have time to do some basic shopping, never mind guild quests.

[Eldan]

That's... just a thing in most Bethesda games.
Especially Fallout 4.
"Oh, no, they kidnapped your toddler! Better save these 32 villages first, help my detective friend a few criminals and then go visit a museum. The toddler will keep."

[Ignimortis]

Yeah... thing is, it's never really occurred to me to "want to be an adventurer". In Oblivion, I'm just trying to do my modest bit to stop the end of the freakin' world. I barely have time to do some basic shopping, never mind guild quests.

Yeah, that's the problem with most Bethesda games after Morrowind. I love how Caius Cosades just says "oh, nevermind all that, here's some gold, go do some work for the guilds, return when you're sure you can handle whatever I ask of you". You can jump into the main quest right away, but he does actually let you off at an early point in the game to play whatever you want even IC.

[factotum]

Yeah, that's the problem with most Bethesda games after Morrowind. I love how Caius Cosades just says "oh, nevermind all that, here's some gold, go do some work for the guilds, return when you're sure you can handle whatever I ask of you".

Well, in Morrowind there isn't really any urgency about the main quest, either--sure, the ash blight is getting worse, but we're talking something that has been rumbling along for centuries and could quite happily go a couple more before things get really serious. Not to mention that you don't even find out about the ancient evil until halfway through the game! In Oblivion, Skyrim, and both Bethsoft Fallouts you have a quest which you'd think would have a fair level of urgency attached to it, and are given that quest pretty much right at the start, so it just feels odd going off on side missions.

[Talion]

Yeah, that's the problem with most Bethesda games after Morrowind. I love how Caius Cosades just says "oh, nevermind all that, here's some gold, go do some work for the guilds, return when you're sure you can handle whatever I ask of you". You can jump into the main quest right away, but he does actually let you off at an early point in the game to play whatever you want even IC.

Yeah, Caius doesn't really rush you to do anything. Several times he's also like "Go away, I need to sort through all this intel you've brought me. Come back in a couple of days. Go do whatever, I don't care. Also, here's some free money/stuff...and for the heck of it a promotion, for what it's worth." He doesn't even rush you to find a cure when you get Corprus (though he is very quick on the uptake of finding you a doctor and a bribe for said doctor to get you in the door).

Technically speaking, even going to Caius in the first place isn't rushed. All you know is that you've been sent to this backwater mudhole, have been released from prison, and have been 'instructed' to go see him, but for all anyone knows or cares you could have dumped those papers in the nearest puddle and wandered off to be your own person. The main quest is borderline a suggestion rather than a mandate. Heck, the only time you are 'rushed' in the main quest is when the entire Tribunal Temple is out for your blood, which is really more a matter of personal convenience rather than world ending calamity.

For that matter, most of the main quest is busy work that slowly exposes what all is going on and, eventually, why you're going to be doing something about it. Eventually. Even Vivec is like "Use caution and don't rush this. Take the time to go and establish safe places within the Ghostfence. Train. Stockpile supplies. Take out their strongholds to weaken their position before going to the final confrontation. Retreat for a while if need be. Just...make sure you do it right, because we only have one shot at this. We can hold out for a little while longer." In essence, you have time to do it right, but where possible get to things sooner rather than later.

[Triaxx]

I have rarely understood playing the meek, mild normal person.

I much prefer an active adventure type who may have actually done something to end up in prison, or an adventurous vault Dweller eager to see the world, and if the circumstances aren't what they wanted, well, they'll take what they can get.

[Cespenar]

The worst part of the "urgent main quest" design is that in all of those games, the main quests are the most boring questlines imaginable, while the guilds and whatnot have all reasonably fun stuff that you would choose to do.

But probably Todd or someone came and told to make the main questline more "personal" because they want the game to "start strong" and make people invest in it and so forth. And the clash of concepts is ignored because the players probably wouldn't mind.

[Rodin]

The worst part of the "urgent main quest" design is that in all of those games, the main quests are the most boring questlines imaginable, while the guilds and whatnot have all reasonably fun stuff that you would choose to do.

But probably Todd or someone came and told to make the main questline more "personal" because they want the game to "start strong" and make people invest in it and so forth. And the clash of concepts is ignored because the players probably wouldn't mind.

I mean, I certainly understand the desire to do that. I never really got invested in Morrowind's main quest. A bunch of Dunmer who have been nothing but jerks to me since I arrived want me to fulfill an ancient prophecy and fight a god for them? Why would I do that? An End of the World plot gives a reason for the widest group of characters to care.

Skyrim does offer a pretty reasonable compromise - if you want to not be the Dragonborn, you simply don't do the main quest once it tells you to go to Whiterun. Dragons won't start randomly attacking until you do. You can't learn Shouts, but that's no biggie, especially if you're roleplaying a different character.

[Rynjin]

The worst part of the "urgent main quest" design is that in all of those games, the main quests are the most boring questlines imaginable, while the guilds and whatnot have all reasonably fun stuff that you would choose to do.

But probably Todd or someone came and told to make the main questline more "personal" because they want the game to "start strong" and make people invest in it and so forth. And the clash of concepts is ignored because the players probably wouldn't mind.

That's kind of the issue there. In Oblivion and Skyrim, I was never invested in the main plot. even on my first playthrough. I have 1000+ hours on both and ave never finished the main quest in either game.

Fallout 4 I really liked were it was going to start and was super invested...but got tired of being railroaded pretty early, and it sucks more on subsequent playthroughs.

New Vegas hit the perfect middle ground I think, with Oblivion as a close second of the four. Both give you a concrete starting goal and then encourage at least some exploration and travel while you're doing the main quest, and both are low urgency TO START, meaning if you meander your way to New Vegas or Weynon Priory, you're not feeling in a rush.

The issue with Oblivion is that after the Gates start appearing, everything becomes way more in your face apocalyptic, where even your employers in New Vegas tend to stress that as long as the job gets done, it doesn't matter WHEN it gets done.

[Triaxx]

Personally a better plot twist for F4 would have been you running into a companion early on and then finding out later he was Shawn. But that's a bit too narratively involved for Bethesda.

Morrowind is one of those games I'm going to either go into as Main Plot doer guy, and focus entirely on it, or completely forget it's even there until I'm so powerful the magic swords are vendor trash.

[Cespenar]

I mean, I certainly understand the desire to do that. I never really got invested in Morrowind's main quest. A bunch of Dunmer who have been nothing but jerks to me since I arrived want me to fulfill an ancient prophecy and fight a god for them? Why would I do that? An End of the World plot gives a reason for the widest group of characters to care.

Skyrim does offer a pretty reasonable compromise - if you want to not be the Dragonborn, you simply don't do the main quest once it tells you to go to Whiterun. Dragons won't start randomly attacking until you do. You can't learn Shouts, but that's no biggie, especially if you're roleplaying a different character.

That's nice IMHO, though. In Morrowind, if you don't invest in the MQ, cool, the game doesn't push it down your throat, it's kinda world-threatening, but, like, eventually. The MQ is only less than 10% of the game anyway, and the game knows it.

In Skyrim, it was... eh. If you're a newcomer and don't know the "don't start the quest" trick, you are just pestered by dragons all the some-hundred hours playthrough that you'll have. It's like Cliff Racers 2.0.

In F3-4, just no.

My personal workaround with all Beth games is just to have different characters do different questlines, and just headcanon-out the main quest from all but one playthroughs.


That's kind of the issue there. In Oblivion and Skyrim, I was never invested in the main plot. even on my first playthrough. I have 1000+ hours on both and ave never finished the main quest in either game.

Fallout 4 I really liked were it was going to start and was super invested...but got tired of being railroaded pretty early, and it sucks more on subsequent playthroughs.

New Vegas hit the perfect middle ground I think, with Oblivion as a close second of the four. Both give you a concrete starting goal and then encourage at least some exploration and travel while you're doing the main quest, and both are low urgency TO START, meaning if you meander your way to New Vegas or Weynon Priory, you're not feeling in a rush.

The issue with Oblivion is that after the Gates start appearing, everything becomes way more in your face apocalyptic, where even your employers in New Vegas tend to stress that as long as the job gets done, it doesn't matter WHEN it gets done.

Played 100+ hours of Obli (too short to talk, right?), and never did the MQ. I think it was the worst of the bunch, personally. It's so cookie-cutter fantasy that it hurts, and it hurts double since it came after Morrowind.

I liked how NV did it too, though. If you're gonna make it personal, at least be aware of the tropes like NV, instead of playing the "your wife/father/son/whatever" cards straight like a 80s action movie.

[tsj]

Oblivion was fun... as a fantasy game

especially with mods... I modified a shipping mod that gave me better control and info about the sailing ships for example... I had a fleet of pirate ships with lots of pirate crew followers etc... fun

skyrim is also fun with mods.. I currently play a blood axe in ultra marines power armour armed with a plasma pistol and a light saber and my companion is a starwars battledroid armed with a boltgun and a chainsword

I also sometimes ride around in tanks

As you may have guessed, I decided to try and play skyrim as a scifi game

I will soon be experimenting with city construction mods

last year I essentially made my new vegas in to a better version of fallout 4 using countless mods... I still play that from time to time... as a space marine librarian with a retinue