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HMS Invincible
2018-07-24, 03:44 PM
When I made a character, we were joking around about how to make the strangest characters. Long story short, my PC is a super suit that is actually a parasite a la Venom/Scarab. I've noticed this group likes to roleplay moral quandaries, so I should be prepared. Example " necromancy is bad because dead people should stay dead. Also, they're icky grave robbers. Die necromancer!"

According to the rules, The host is under amnesia and does nothing. The parasite gains all memories, abilities and disabilities of the host.

The parasite lives as the host, and otherwise acts as a hero. The party doesn't know the true nature of the hero.
The GM informed me that I will probably be detected at some point. I infer that I should be prepared for a moral conflict. Thoughts? he is a 9 out of 10 on the scales of Justice. Depending on how you spin it, (invasion of the body snatchers or DC's Scarab.) Need something that says "it'll be ok, or a moral justification" without resorting to metagaming 'he's a PC.'

The system is GURPS if it matters.

DMThac0
2018-07-24, 03:49 PM
Well, you could spin this a number of different ways, here's a few that jump at me:

The host is a willing participant, the parasite is actually prolonging his life

The host is a willing participant, the parasite and he/she formed a bond

The parasite is present for a higher purpose, the host is a means to an end

The parasite is regenerating the host, when all is said and done the parasite will move on to "help" another host.

The parasite and host are both knowing participants of a government/special project and have decided to work together

Anonymouswizard
2018-07-24, 04:30 PM
According to the rules, The host is under amnesia and does nothing. The parasite gains all memories, abilities and disabilities of the host.

This is the problematic part.

I suspect part of what you need to do is change the fluff. Mechanically there's no difference between this and 'the host and parasite switch control of the body as required' except for those rare cases where the host is knocked out and the parasite would be able to take control. So if you like that idea and the GM is fine with it, use that.

Otherwise, another idea:
-The host is brain dead and their soul has left for the afterlife. You inhabited them on the moment of death, and so were able to keep their body alive for your use. Possible disad: Enemy (host's family wants the body). Bonus points if the host's soul comes back as a ghost....

Mr_Fixler
2018-07-24, 08:24 PM
Host was a bad guy? You took a read of their life and memories and thought "I can do so much good with these abilities, wheras he/she was never going to."

Of course you wouldn't know that until after you took hold of them....and of course that's what you'd say.

TheStranger
2018-07-24, 10:08 PM
The host is a willing participant
That's probably the best approach. Use one of Therverian's reasons, or make up your own reason a person would give their body up for the use of some other entity. For maximum "your group will never, ever ask you to explain yourself again," effect, I suggest possession fetish, roleplayed in detail. Or, you know, not.

The idea of "host was a bad guy" also has some merit. But there is the issue of defining "bad guy" sufficiently to justify it. The most ironclad would be "convicted in a court of law after a fair trial and sentenced to possession."

Alternately, "whim of a capricious god" and the parasite didn't choose it either. Do this only after consulting with your GM.

Rynjin
2018-07-24, 10:11 PM
Potentially go the Parasyte route. Host was unwilling participant, and is now dead, irrecoverable.

Parasite, spawned from this initial evil, is now trying to live the best life he can. Room for guilt, without the baggage of an ONGOING evil/wrong being committed.

Kaptin Keen
2018-07-24, 11:40 PM
Swap bodies often, go around looking for the one most fitting for any given job. Let them wonder - say 'wait, weren't you a guy just a minute ago?!'

In other words, use hosts as convenient utilities. This being your very nature, it shouldn't have any moral implications for you.

When someone calls you on it - at least it's an interesting moral grey zone to explore.

I mean ..... anything else the suit can do, the grabbing of memories is it's most powerful ability. Want the launch codes for the nuclear arsenal? Borrow the president for a moment. Wanna know how to get to the president? Grab his secretary.

HMS Invincible
2018-07-25, 12:30 AM
Swap bodies often, go around looking for the one most fitting for any given job. Let them wonder - say 'wait, weren't you a guy just a minute ago?!'
In other words, use hosts as convenient utilities. This being your very nature, it shouldn't have any moral implications for you.
When someone calls you on it - at least it's an interesting moral grey zone to explore.
I mean ..... anything else the suit can do, the grabbing of memories is it's most powerful ability. Want the launch codes for the nuclear arsenal? Borrow the president for a moment. Wanna know how to get to the president? Grab his secretary.
There's a lot of trollish/funny/useful things I could do by treating my hosts as meatbags for me to use and discard. The big thing I'm trying to avoid is the 90s grimdark edgy brooding Byronic hero.
He's a hero first. If the party wants to roleplay moral implications, they'll have to dig to find my plothooks or the GM will have to work at it. No need to advertise my background.

Here's my origin bullet notes: Part of an organization that upholds peace & Justice. Got dropped off near potential hosts. Found a crippled war vet who was committing suicide. Healed him before he died. Found out he wants to be a hero, and now he's my host. He's a hero now, except he doesn't know it, and the suit does all the work. I do like him, and formed a bond. I will not abandon him just cuz things get tough. Together we serve a higher purpose, dispensing Justice.

That checks off most of the morality boxes that I could think of.
1. He would have died anyway.
2. He's willing to be a hero. (Though I omitted that he wasn't going to remember it).
3. Formed a bond. (What exactly does that entail?)
4. Serve a higher purpose.

Complications:
A. There's no way to prove that I'm telling the truth, just circumstantial evidence.
B. I'm allowed to craft a backstory that contains rare events that formed my host. Who do I replace him with when my host dies?
I think B depends on how desperate/callous I am. If my host dies in combat, the lazy way is to be knocked out of the combat. Cool way would be seize a bad guy as my next host.

Thanks for all the suggestions, even the anti-hero ones.

Quertus
2018-07-25, 12:40 AM
1. He would have died anyway.
2. He's willing to be a hero. (Though I omitted that he wasn't going to remember it).
3. Formed a bond. (What exactly does that entail?)
4. Serve a higher purpose.

Complications:
A. There's no way to prove that I'm telling the truth, just circumstantial evidence.
B. I'm allowed to craft a backstory that contains rare events that formed my host. Who do I replace him with when my host dies?
I think B depends on how desperate/callous I am. If my host dies in combat, the lazy way is to be knocked out of the combat. Cool way would be seize a bad guy as my next host.

Thanks for all the suggestions, even the anti-hero ones.

1 is no longer true, and thus is irrelevant.

2 is not something he consented to, and is against you.

3 is irrelevant.

4 is "greater good", which is usually evil.

A is, um, really? Just get off of him for a second while we verify your story... (even without the existence of other super powers, or the creation of custom lie detectors that work on you)

B is a problem.

But, really, your evil parasite should be outed by your allies long before this becomes a problem.

Kaptin Keen
2018-07-25, 01:19 AM
There's a lot of trollish/funny/useful things I could do by treating my hosts as meatbags for me to use and discard. The big thing I'm trying to avoid is the 90s grimdark edgy brooding Byronic hero.
He's a hero first. If the party wants to roleplay moral implications, they'll have to dig to find my plothooks or the GM will have to work at it. No need to advertise my background.

Here's my origin bullet notes: Part of an organization that upholds peace & Justice. Got dropped off near potential hosts. Found a crippled war vet who was committing suicide. Healed him before he died. Found out he wants to be a hero, and now he's my host. He's a hero now, except he doesn't know it, and the suit does all the work. I do like him, and formed a bond. I will not abandon him just cuz things get tough. Together we serve a higher purpose, dispensing Justice.

That checks off most of the morality boxes that I could think of.
1. He would have died anyway.
2. He's willing to be a hero. (Though I omitted that he wasn't going to remember it).
3. Formed a bond. (What exactly does that entail?)
4. Serve a higher purpose.

Complications:
A. There's no way to prove that I'm telling the truth, just circumstantial evidence.
B. I'm allowed to craft a backstory that contains rare events that formed my host. Who do I replace him with when my host dies?
I think B depends on how desperate/callous I am. If my host dies in combat, the lazy way is to be knocked out of the combat. Cool way would be seize a bad guy as my next host.

Thanks for all the suggestions, even the anti-hero ones.

See, I'd go with mine because A) it makes sense - you're an alien entity that simply works this way, there's no reason why the suit would regard what it is as wrong .. and B) that gives a lot of room to grow, learning from others that hosts aren't just expendable tools.

But if my suggestion is in direct contradiction to your original concept, then, you know ... never mind =D

HMS Invincible
2018-07-25, 07:34 AM
1 is no longer true, and thus is irrelevant.

2 is not something he consented to, and is against you.
3 is irrelevant.
4 is "greater good", which is usually evil.

A is, um, really? Just get off of him for a second while we verify your story... (even without the existence of other super powers, or the creation of custom lie detectors that work on you)

B is a problem.

But, really, your evil parasite should be outed by your allies long before this becomes a problem.
I can charge it slightly to, had a conversation after saving him. "Wanna be a hero?" Since it's my backstory, he's one of the few that says yes.

See, I'd go with mine because A) it makes sense - you're an alien entity that simply works this way, there's no reason why the suit would regard what it is as wrong .. and B) that gives a lot of room to grow, learning from others that hosts aren't just expendable tools.

But if my suggestion is in direct contradiction to your original concept, then, you know ... never mind =D
It's more of a just in case the party or GM starts moralizing me. Like Quertus, for example. People's roleplay different morality levels. GMlready warned me that body hopping is a no-no. He thinks it would give too many abilities to an already loaded party.

Quertus
2018-07-25, 08:13 AM
I can charge it slightly to, had a conversation after saving him. "Wanna be a hero?" Since it's my backstory, he's one of the few that says yes.

That makes it much better. And "one of the few" implies you've got backup bodies, in case something happens to this meat sack. Problem solved, give or take the lack of consent on the specifics?

HMS Invincible
2018-07-25, 12:22 PM
That makes it much better. And "one of the few" implies you've got backup bodies, in case something happens to this meat sack. Problem solved, give or take the lack of consent on the specifics?
This thread gave me several ideas where replacement hosts could come from. Maybe I'll include the party and see who they suggest. If they think of it, they'll automatically think it's ok.

Mechanically, You aren't denied a replacement unless you went out of your way to get him killed. Of course, this is a super hero game, and my schtick is to punches baddies that police can't handle...

Pleh
2018-07-25, 02:45 PM
It might help to change verbiage from Parasite to Symbiote. The former implies that the relationship is one directional.

From there, make the bonus provided to the host to be exceptional ("I'm keeping him alive and stronger than ever.") so the host can easily corroborate the consent.

Next, argue the unchangeable state of your nature. Are humans evil for needing to kill animals for sustenance? You aren't trying to hurt the host. That would be against your own best interests. It's not your fault that your physiology has particular needs any more than anyone else.

Finally, you're fighting monsters like the do gooders. Exactly what grounds do they have to smite you?

Frozen_Feet
2018-07-25, 03:39 PM
I'm a bit confused of what the deal is. Does the host have part-time control and is amnesiac about their superheroics? Or does the host have no control and is essentially unconscious while the parasite lives their life?

If the former, simply go with "they agreed to it". They're happy that they get to be a part-time hero, even if they don't remember it.

If the latter, call into question how much the parasite is a separate person to begin with. As stated, the parasite gains all memories, abilities and disabilities of the host. All those things inform personality; the parasite-as-superhero is largely a continuation of who the host used to be. Removing the parasite to wake up the amnesiac host would just be akin to hitting someone in the head hard enough to make them forget last two weeks. In order for there to be a moral argument, the parasite would have to be worse than the person the host used to be.

RazorChain
2018-07-25, 06:25 PM
Why not just go with the belief that you and your host are one and the same in a symbiotic relationship, but if you leave your host you will take all the memories with you, leaving your host no memories of your symbiotic relationship.

Andor13
2018-07-25, 08:21 PM
If you healed him, it definitely seems more like a symbiotic relationship.

Also does the suit ever sleep?

I would definitely consider taking some kind of flaw where if you (as the suit) get knocked out the host wakes up, probably in the middle of combat and very confused. Take it as a flaw where you go under GM control during the 'episode'.

HMS Invincible
2018-07-25, 10:52 PM
I'm a bit confused of what the deal is. Does the host have part-time control and is amnesiac about their superheroics? Or does the host have no control and is essentially unconscious while the parasite lives their life?
If the former, simply go with "they agreed to it". They're happy that they get to be a part-time hero, even if they don't remember it.
If the latter, call into question how much the parasite is a separate person to begin with. As stated, the parasite gains all memories, abilities and disabilities of the host. All those things inform personality; the parasite-as-superhero is largely a continuation of who the host used to be. Removing the parasite to wake up the amnesiac host would just be akin to hitting someone in the head hard enough to make them forget last two weeks. In order for there to be a moral argument, the parasite would have to be worse than the person the host used to be.
When I played a test session, I roleplayed it as host is unconscious while the parasite lives a life of heroism. That's a tricky philosophical question. Not sure if the other people in the campaign want to hear that.

Why not just go with the belief that you and your host are one and the same in a symbiotic relationship, but if you leave your host you will take all the memories with you, leaving your host no memories of your symbiotic relationship.
I am trying to do that. Just trying to craft it in a way that minimizes ethical behavior questions.

If you healed him, it definitely seems more like a symbiotic relationship. Also does the suit ever sleep? I would definitely consider taking some kind of flaw where if you (as the suit) get knocked out the host wakes up, probably in the middle of combat and very confused. Take it as a flaw where you go under GM control during the 'episode'.
I didn't pay for it, so the suit sleeps. Sounds fun, I'll probably do something like that later, but how exactly does this enhance the "good guy" image I'm trying to project?


This is not what I am aiming for.
https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/images/e/e8/voice.png

Kaptin Keen
2018-07-25, 11:40 PM
It's more of a just in case the party or GM starts moralizing me. Like Quertus, for example. People's roleplay different morality levels. GMlready warned me that body hopping is a no-no. He thinks it would give too many abilities to an already loaded party.

I agree - it's hugely OP. But it's also fun, and since it's an obvious thing to do for the suit, I really feel it's something it ought to learn not to do. Sort of 'No! Bad suit! Bodies are people too you know!!' :p

HMS Invincible
2018-07-26, 02:32 PM
I agree - it's hugely OP. But it's also fun, and since it's an obvious thing to do for the suit, I really feel it's something it ought to learn not to do. Sort of 'No! Bad suit! Bodies are people too you know!!' :p
That's the conversation I'm trying to avoid in the first place, lol. I think once I get a handle on the morality level of the party, I can figure out where to let loose a little. That or whatever strange circumstance that the GM thinks up.
The most obvious one is evil mirror version in my gallery of rogues. Or zombie infection version. Those are probably the worse case scenarios. GM has hinted at the possibility.

Andor13
2018-07-26, 04:25 PM
I didn't pay for it, so the suit sleeps. Sounds fun, I'll probably do something like that later, but how exactly does this enhance the "good guy" image I'm trying to project?


Well, primarily it serves as a vehicle for acquainting the other players with the fact that a moral quandry exists in the first place. And it may help to resolve the issue, if your host is okay with it, or some more nuanced issue exists it allows actual conversation to take place.

Bonus points if your host has some useful skill set or knowledge that you lack, since then you can get into a Hulk/Banner scenario.

HMS Invincible
2018-07-26, 05:50 PM
Well, primarily it serves as a vehicle for acquainting the other players with the fact that a moral quandry exists in the first place. And it may help to resolve the issue, if your host is okay with it, or some more nuanced issue exists it allows actual conversation to take place.

Bonus points if your host has some useful skill set or knowledge that you lack, since then you can get into a Hulk/Banner scenario.

Oh it's a plot hook. That makes sense.
The suit assimilates the knowledge, abilities and skills of every host. If I wanted to game it, a series of hosts with great skills followed by a high stat host would make me a power house, relative to humans. The limiting factor is I would run out of marginally better hosts, and it's against the spirit of my character.

Hmm, I didn't put much thought into role-playing with myself. It makes sense as an option, but I think I ignored it because it's weird. This gives me some ideas for later though.

Andor13
2018-07-27, 09:42 AM
Oh it's a plot hook. That makes sense.
The suit assimilates the knowledge, abilities and skills of every host. If I wanted to game it, a series of hosts with great skills followed by a high stat host would make me a power house, relative to humans. The limiting factor is I would run out of marginally better hosts, and it's against the spirit of my character.

Hmm, I didn't put much thought into role-playing with myself. It makes sense as an option, but I think I ignored it because it's weird. This gives me some ideas for later though.

Well, that's potentially interesting in that you could invert the scenario. The host could have some kind of traumatic memory that he's blocking out on, but which the suit has full knowledge of. Kind of like what was going on with Guld Bowman in Macross Plus. It would be pretty difficult to work into a game however.

HMS Invincible
2018-07-27, 05:54 PM
Well, that's potentially interesting in that you could invert the scenario. The host could have some kind of traumatic memory that he's blocking out on, but which the suit has full knowledge of. Kind of like what was going on with Guld Bowman in Macross Plus. It would be pretty difficult to work into a game however.

I ended up in a reverse Banner/Hulk dynamic. Well, the GM is thinking the same line as you. The host has a berserk/anger problem whenever people(or yourself) you care about are seriously injured. Combined with my sense of duty to all means I'm a potential powder-keg whenever anyone gets seriously hurt. Normally the symbiote is in complete control unless it rolls really bad. Which he thought was boring. "Your character is too good at controlling his anger, I'll issue penalties in the future to your berserk rolls if it makes sense."

*Shrugs* As long as it's fun for everyone. Guess the GM enjoys hulk smashing PCs.