New-ish to D&D, need some tips, 5e Bard Build

[GigaGuess]

SO!

We are in a campaign where me and my part members made the grievous mistake of not communicating what we were going to build, so we ended up with a team that is rather...lopsided. We have:

Tiefling Warlock
Half-Elf Sorcerer
Tiefling Bard (me)

To try and add some beef, I am looking at the following:

Shoring up healing spells (Already have Cure Wounds, gonna go for Healing Word as well)
Going for College of Swords
Level 5 (Provided things don't go seriously sideways before then) go for a level in Hexblade, if just to get the attack rolls in my wheelhouse.

Any suggestions on what else I can/should do?

[MilkmanDanimal]

SO!

We are in a campaign where me and my part members made the grievous mistake of not communicating what we were going to build, so we ended up with a team that is rather...lopsided. We have:

Tiefling Warlock
Half-Elf Sorcerer
Tiefling Bard (me)

To try and add some beef, I am looking at the following:

Shoring up healing spells (Already have Cure Wounds, gonna go for Healing Word as well)
Going for College of Swords
Level 5 (Provided things don't go seriously sideways before then) go for a level in Hexblade, if just to get the attack rolls in my wheelhouse.

Any suggestions on what else I can/should do?

Are you allowed to switch up at all yet, because starting as Hexblade would give you a lot of combat survivability at level one, and then you could multiclass into bard later. If you're stuck at bard for level 1, uh, dodge a lot? Not sure, depends on your campaign. I will say Healing Word is better than Cure Wounds at level 1 in lots of ways, as it's a bonus action and ranged, and that alone makes it really useful to keep people up.

Focus on some buff spells. Faerie Fire is really useful, and Sleep will likely save your party's life a couple times.

[Ventruenox]

In this situation, I would actually suggest Valor over Swords. You get to use your Bardic Inspiration to help protect your squishy mates with their reactions. You also get shield proficiency, which you will probably need to survive till 5. Mostly, start communicating with your party. In 5E, pretty much any party composition can work, you just need to adjust your tactics to play to your strengths. Your mates are pretty blasty, and the Warlock should figure out how to choose Pacts/Invocations that can solidify a secondary role. Healing Word is far more valuable than Cure Wounds because it relies on a bonus action and does not require a touch range. Bards are buff masters first and foremost, and it looks like you will also be the buffer between rampaging orcs and your casters. Its doable, just be smart about it.

[GigaGuess]

Noted. And I suppose I could cry and beg for the DM to switch up, but honestly...I like the character I have developed, and I feel Hexblade centric would work counter to that. I will see if I can play the ignorance card and switch to Healing Word (I legit didn't know about it when I was making my guy.)

And yeah, we are already pretty much aware that combat will be best avoided when possible, and handled VERY carefully when necessary. No Murder Hobos here. :p

And I was waffling between Valor and Swords, and settled with Swords because while being able to buff my guys would be handy, I figured the better buff I'll be able to give is being able to take a hit for them.

[sophontteks]

Lopsided isn't the problem so much as your party is just a bit short-handed at only 3.

Pick either healing word or cure. It's too redundant and you don't have enough known spells to waste. You can heal by playing music while they short rest at no cost. You are gaining so very little taking both its basically throwing a precious known spell away.

We actually don't have much information on the party without knowing what kinds of warlocks or sorcerers they are.

[GigaGuess]

Yeah, I'm not certain at the moment as to what types they're running...I'll look into that.

But yeah, as for communication, I've already started a FB chat with the guys so we can have some between game strategizing. Kinda big on the whole "Fool me once" premise. :p

[sophontteks]

Well, actually, you guys are all charisma-based and that is lop-sided. That's the big problem. Wisdom characters and charisma characters go together like peanutbutter and jelly.

[GigaGuess]

I mean we're aligned to talk our way out of a lot of things (hopefully) but yeah, that was my thought.

[Innocent_bystan]

Try and convince your other party members to get some healing capability into their characters.
My party had the same problem: everyone played a caster. So my current character is a bard with a level of cleric added to increase my melee capabilities. I have a new nickname: sir dies-a-lot.
You can't expect to tank, heal, buff and be the parties skillmonkey and do well in all areas.
If you're the one getting hit, your concentration will get broken. If your hp drops to zero, you can't heal yourself. If you are the parties defense line, the other party members need to buff you, not the other way around.

As for the build: have you considered paladin? 2 levels will give heavy armor, a fighting style (defense!), smiting (nova damage!), some spell less healing and a selection of level 1 spells that you no longer need to select as bard spells.

[odigity]

Re: healing

Cure Wounds is a terrible, awful spell compared to Healing Word. It's touch instead of ranged, and uses an action instead of a bonus action, just for an extra couple HP.

The important thing in combat is not healing all damage, but bring a character back up when they hit 0 so they can continue to fight. There's not much difference between giving them 6hp vs 8hp.

Re: Paladin dip

I agree strongly with this. The easiest classes to mix in 5th Edition are the Cha-based classes. They all mix together well, like dishes in Indian cuisine. A 2-6 level dip in Paladin will give you lots of benefits, or any of your teammates.

This is a guide dedicated to that topic:

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?502673-Unlimited-Blade-Works-The-Guide-to-the-Ultimate-Paladin-Sorcerer-Multiclass

[GigaGuess]

I mean...mechanically, I can see it, and it would solve a LOT of problems.

IC-wise...I don't see it working in an organic way. Let's just say the character isn't exactly the pious type. Though I could float the idea to the Sorcerer. That may be an idea...

[MarkVIIIMarc]

Re: healing

Cure Wounds is a terrible, awful spell compared to Healing Word. It's touch instead of ranged, and uses an action instead of a bonus action, just for an extra couple HP.

The important thing in combat is not healing all damage, but bring a character back up when they hit 0 so they can continue to fight. There's not much difference between giving them 6hp vs 8hp.

Re: Paladin dip

I agree strongly with this. The easiest classes to mix in 5th Edition are the Cha-based classes. They all mix together well, like dishes in Indian cuisine. A 2-6 level dip in Paladin will give you lots of benefits, or any of your teammates.

This is a guide dedicated to that topic:

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?502673-Unlimited-Blade-Works-The-Guide-to-the-Ultimate-Paladin-Sorcerer-Multiclass

I'm gonna second the love of Healing Word. A Bard can heal but isn't a Cleric. Bards just don't get bonuses to ad to healing spells like a Cleric can.

Get Healing Word though. You can keep your partners from dying at range and with a Bonus Action with Healing Word.

[Corpsecandle717]

Does your DM allow hirelings? With that much charisma floating around I imagine it would be easy enough to get one or two minions.

[nickl_2000]

You will need to change your strategy out some. Focus more on stealth and hitting from a distance. Use spells like Gust, Shape Earth, and Control Water to make the battlefield how you like it and draw your enemies into that area. With all that spell casting you can do some major damage before anyone is even close to you, and you can have some nice battlefield control to keep people further away from you.

At level 5 the Warlock can get Summon Lesser Demons, which could be used as a meat shield for your party. You can also use your magical secrets (when you get them) to pick up summon spells to summon critters to get in the way of anyone trying to hurt you.

Other spells that you have will be very handy in this party
-Sleep
-Tasha's Hideous laughter (get someone out of a fight and gum up the battlefield)
-Charm Person

-Heat Metal (make them lose their weapons, reducing damage by a lot)
-Hold Person (the person is out of combat and fails a lot of spells automatically)
-Phantasmal Force
-Suggestion (remove someone from the battlefield or have them scout for you)

-Plant Growth (makes movement hard so you can snipe from a distance)
-Stinking Cloud (keeps you out of melee)


Also, as a Bard you likely have decent Dex. So remember that at early levels your distance damage output is likely going to be the best with a bow.

[sophontteks]

Solve all your problems by inviting a 4th player!

[opaopajr]

Your Social column should be so good you guys shouldn't be in combat, all CHA party. :smalltongue: Basically, the best advice is learning how to cooperate and play to your party's strengths. Once you get into a combat outside your terms, you failed... but that applies to all party types! :smallsmile:

Healing Word is golden for pop-up, but that's for when your team is surprised and everything went pear-shaped. Better to play your Explore and Social column to the hilt. Especially so if you can be the eye of the social storm.

And when in doubt, one of you should Dodge as the other two blast away. :smallwink: And then try to run away!

[MilkmanDanimal]

At level 5 the Warlock can get Summon Lesser Demons, which could be used as a meat shield for your party. You can also use your magical secrets (when you get them) to pick up summon spells to summon critters to get in the way of anyone trying to hurt you.

The main problem with Summon Lessons Demons is you're summoning hostile creatures, so they're either a meat shield or a whole new host of problems. Not super-handy, and makes the spell pretty awful. I mean, there are some amusing possibilities in terms of "open door, summon demons, close door, go have lunch", but it's a very dangerous spell to use.

[nickl_2000]

The main problem with Summon Lessons Demons is you're summoning hostile creatures, so they're either a meat shield or a whole new host of problems. Not super-handy, and makes the spell pretty awful. I mean, there are some amusing possibilities in terms of "open door, summon demons, close door, go have lunch", but it's a very dangerous spell to use.

Agreed, but it is something that could be used without multiclassing

[tieren]

I mean...mechanically, I can see it, and it would solve a LOT of problems.

IC-wise...I don't see it working in an organic way. Let's just say the character isn't exactly the pious type. Though I could float the idea to the Sorcerer. That may be an idea...

Paladins don't have to be pious anymore.

Look at the tenets of the Oath of Ancients, its all about appreciation of light and beauty, ties very well into a romantic bard singing about the glories of the world and bringing light and hope to his comrades, etc...

[sophontteks]

Ancients oath is awesome. The oath requires you to love music, beauty, laughter, and art. It's very bard.

And altogether its a great archtype that gives a constant AOE resistance to spells at level 6.

[Innocent_bystan]

And altogether its a great archtype that gives a constant AOE resistance to spells at level 6.

Minor nitpick: the resistance aura comes at level 7. The combination of both auras is known as the Aura of Indifference to our party. <Brushes dust of shoulder> Was that it?

[sophontteks]

Minor nitpick: the resistance aura comes at level 7. The combination of both auras is known as the Aura of Indifference to our party. <Brushes dust of shoulder> Was that it?
Whooooops. Thanks!
I like the nickname.

[GigaGuess]

Solve all your problems by inviting a 4th player!

Trust me, high on the list. May need to finagle a bit with my DM's storyline (Heroes summoned by divinity...oh hey, here's another one, forgot to tell you guys!) but it would definitely ease off some stress.


You will need to change your strategy out some. Focus more on stealth and hitting from a distance. Use spells like Gust, Shape Earth, and Control Water to make the battlefield how you like it and draw your enemies into that area. With all that spell casting you can do some major damage before anyone is even close to you, and you can have some nice battlefield control to keep people further away from you.

At level 5 the Warlock can get Summon Lesser Demons, which could be used as a meat shield for your party. You can also use your magical secrets (when you get them) to pick up summon spells to summon critters to get in the way of anyone trying to hurt you.

Other spells that you have will be very handy in this party
-Sleep
-Tasha's Hideous laughter (get someone out of a fight and gum up the battlefield)
-Charm Person

-Heat Metal (make them lose their weapons, reducing damage by a lot)
-Hold Person (the person is out of combat and fails a lot of spells automatically)
-Phantasmal Force
-Suggestion (remove someone from the battlefield or have them scout for you)

-Plant Growth (makes movement hard so you can snipe from a distance)
-Stinking Cloud (keeps you out of melee)


Also, as a Bard you likely have decent Dex. So remember that at early levels your distance damage output is likely going to be the best with a bow.
Oh trust me, we are well, well aware that combat is a last resort. But I am loving the spell suggestions. Charm Person is already in my spell list.

[sophontteks]

I dunno, with multiple persuasive characters is charm person really going to be useful? Its a very high risk spell without much reward. I have it from devils tongue but I haven't found a situation yet where it would have been useful.

[JeffreyGator]

To be tankier, I would either dip hexblade OR take Swords/Valor OR dip paladin.

Of those, the hexblade is probably your best dip. Medium armor/Shield, Eldritch Blast and a SCAG cantrip.

This leaves Lore Bard or another option for your third level bard pick since you may need to be the skill monkey.

[GigaGuess]

To be tankier, I would either dip hexblade OR take Swords/Valor OR dip paladin.

Of those, the hexblade is probably your best dip. Medium armor/Shield, Eldritch Blast and a SCAG cantrip.

This leaves Lore Bard or another option for your third level bard pick since you may need to be the skill monkey.

You know, you kinda hit something that has been buzzing in the back of my head in that Hexblade and my predicted college do overlap pretty hard...I believe I will research the other colleges a bit more. Thanks!