“Divine Magus” for Druid/Oracle

[Palanan]

I’m working up a divine version of the Ultimate Magus, and I’m trying to adapt it to a druid/oracle multiclass.

I’d like to know if it’s fair for the druid and oracle levels to “inter-qualify,” as it were, for the features of each separate class. In particular, I’d like oracle levels to count as druid levels for the purpose of calculating wild shape and animal companion advancement, and I’d like druid levels to count as oracle levels for the purpose of bonuses to oracle healing spells.

Is this fair, or is this too much? Using oracle levels to count as druid levels for wild shape is effectively getting Shaping Focus for free, and the equivalent benefit for animal companion seems like it should be worth another feat as well. And this is in addition to the dual casting progression. Is this all too much?

[Jack_Simth]

I’m working up a divine version of the Ultimate Magus, and I’m trying to adapt it to a druid/oracle multiclass.

I’d like to know if it’s fair for the druid and oracle levels to “inter-qualify,” as it were, for the features of each separate class. In particular, I’d like oracle levels to count as druid levels for the purpose of calculating wild shape and animal companion advancement, and I’d like druid levels to count as oracle levels for the purpose of bonuses to oracle healing spells.

Is this fair, or is this too much? Using oracle levels to count as druid levels for wild shape is effectively getting Shaping Focus for free, and the equivalent benefit for animal companion seems like it should be worth another feat as well. And this is in addition to the dual casting progression. Is this all too much?
How much you can add in terms of class features or synergies between the base classes and have it still be balanced? Well, that all depends (mostly) on what you're giving up. The dual progression isn't actually a problem, provided early entry shenanigans are avoided: You're trading (usually) 1.5 to 2 spell levels to get the dual progression, and spell access is valuable. Wild Shape and Nature Bond (the animal companion is not the only option!) are great Druid class features... but they're secondary compared to the casting you're already losing by requiring a few oracle levels in the build. As to Oracle bonuses to healing spells... that entirely depends on your specific choices of mystery and revelation. Again, though: You're losing out on oracle casting advancement (also revelation advancement, revelation progression, and curse advancement), which is pretty significant. I'd... need more specifics before I could really give you my take on the balance point.

[Florian]

@Palanan:

You recently switched to PF, right?

Please forget about the old dual-progression classes and rather look at how stuff like that is handled with cross-class archetypes or using the VMC system.

[Ellrin]

Yeah, dual progression PrCs (and PrCs in general, actually) have been made mostly redundant in PF by the presence of the countless archetypes that borrow class features from other classes, as well as by VMC. There are also several feats that allow you to borrow class features and/or progress them once you have access to them.

And if none of these options quite fits the bill for you, instead of homebrewing a PrC specific enough that you've got the entry classes in mind already, you might consider just homebrewing an archetype for whichever of the classes seems more basal to your concept (in this case, sounds like it might be druid?), assuming DM support for the idea.

If you're really attached to making the PrC, though, I'll add one thing on to Jack's assessment, and that's if you're planning on going gish with this build, full progression of wild shape might be a bit over the top, depending on what oracle class features you progress. Certain mysteries and revelations make good melee abilities, as does wild shape, of course. Couple the generally excellent quality of cleric/oracle spell-based buffs and, if built right, a melee character with level -3 oracle casting, level -3 oracle mysteries/revelations, and level -4 wildshape could probably overshadow a pure melee oracle or pure melee druid.

If you're planning on more of a pure caster, then Jack's right in that the hit to spell levels is probably generally more of a penalty than the progression of secondary class features at a minor level loss or the addition of extra spells per day would be a boon.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Jack_Simth
Wild Shape and Nature Bond (the animal companion is not the only option!) are great Druid class features... but they're secondary compared to the casting you're already losing by requiring a few oracle levels in the build….

I’d… need more specifics before I could really give you my take on the balance point.


Originally Posted by Ellrin
If you're planning on more of a pure caster, then Jack's right in that the hit to spell levels is probably generally more of a penalty than the progression of secondary class features at a minor level loss or the addition of extra spells per day would be a boon.

I appreciate your thoughtful replies, thanks.

This will be for a pure caster with an emphasis on healing and support, definitely no gishing involved. If she mixes it up in combat she’ll be using wild shape, but that’s not her preference.

I’m using Ultimate Magus as a template because I really like the idea of using spells from one side to power effects from the other. Instead of powering metamagic, though, I’m thinking of spending spells from the oracle side to maximize healing and restoration spells from the druid side. I’m aware this isn’t optimal, but it fits my concept perfectly.

[exelsisxax]

Restorer druid.

You are now a druid with spontaneous healing. Done.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Jack_Simth
I'd... need more specifics before I could really give you my take on the balance point.

So, I’d still be interested in your take on this, if you have enough to go on.

[Florian]

I’m using Ultimate Magus as a template because I really like the idea of using spells from one side to power effects from the other. Instead of powering metamagic, though, I’m thinking of spending spells from the oracle side to maximize healing and restoration spells from the druid side. I’m aware this isn’t optimal, but it fits my concept perfectly.

That's something you normally do with class features like Mysteries or a Phrenic Pool.

[Jack_Simth]

So, I’d still be interested in your take on this, if you have enough to go on.

There's not enough here to give a useful critique. Almost anything you come up with probably won't be worth the loss of spellcasting. But there's things you might come up with that could be. To give a useful critique, I'd basically need to see a close-to-complete write up (all crunchy bits need to be in place, fluff can be delayed).