Vengeance Paladin/Hexblade Warlock. Help a guy out!

[KingWhipsy]

So we are starting a new campaign in about a month and i'm working on a build for my Paladin/Warlock. I've decided to go the Pallock route as smites on a short rest refresh seem to good to pass up and the idea of playing a character who is conflicted between the light and dark seems awesome. Thematically my character starts off as a Paladin with a vengeance towards Orcs, after being overwhelmed in a fight however, he is saved by the magic of the Hexblade who agrees to help him in his fight if he agrees to the pact. I've spent all night theorycrafting this level 6 character and still have quite a few questions.

Rolled Stats: 15 STR, 13 DEX, 14 CON, 11 INT, 13 WIS, 17 CHA
Half-Elf: +2 CHA, +1 WIS, +1 CON
ASI: +1 CHA, +1 CON
Level 7 Stats: 15 STR, 13 DEX, 16 CON, 11 INT, 14 WIS, 20 CHA

1. What exactly will my Hexblade "deity" be. I understand that I am granted the power from a sentient weapon, does this mean that my character would "worship" this weapon. Outside of Blackrazor what other weapons are there that would be fitting for a hexblade? Are there any sentient weapons that aren't evil that would create a pact with a vengeance pally?

2. As we are starting at level 7 what is the best way to start this split? I'm thinking ideally i'll start 3/4 as to gain an ASI and not miss out on the Warlock's Pact Boon. Currently i'm thinking my best bet is to start Hexblade4/Vengeance3 and just dump the next 3-4 levels into Paladin with the end goal being a Hexblade8/Vengeance12 split. I realize i'm delaying Extra Attack but was thinking that the benefit of Booming Blade would negate the loss of an extra attack. Thoughts on this?

3. Which Pact should I take? I'm debating between Pact of the Chain and Pact of the Blade. I really like Pact of the Chain as it would allow me a cool familiar to grant advantage, scout, apply cure wounds from a distance, etc. However Pact of the Blade allows me to make my weapon act as a spellcasting focus with Improved Pact Weapon which seems important in casting warlock spells. I'm still leaning towards Pact of the Chain but was thinking it would be impossible for me to cast warlock spells unless the fight is purely ranged. It kind of makes me think I would never be able to cast Shield as a reaction because I won't be able to use my focus due to wielding a weapon. In this regard, does taking the War Caster feat negate having to have a free hand to cast? If that's the case I can just take War Caster on my next level up and issue solved.

4. Last question. Which invocations do you think are best for Pact of the Chain? Assuming this is the route I take i'm not completely sold on any of the Invocations. Agonizing Blast is obviously strong, Devil's Sight seems okay even without using Darkness cheese, Grasp of Hadar seems thematic with a Vengeance Paladin as well. Overall i'm a bit overwhelmed by all the invocations and outside Improved Pact Weapon (if I go Pact of the Blade) i'm not sure what would be best for a smitelock.

5. I will also be going sword and board with the dueling fighting style as I'm going to be the primary frontliner for the party. Based on this, which uncommon/rare magic items would you recommend, can be book or homebrew? We get to start with a magic item in our campaign and I dont have many ideas. (For reference, my ranged fighter got a bow that crit on 19 or 20 and recharged a battle maneuver on crit. So around that power level.)

Thanks for the read and hope to hear your responses and have a good discussion!

[Corran]

The oath of vengeance profits a lot less from a high charisma and from a S&B approach than the other paladin oaths. So if you are sold to the idea of a hexblade/paladin multiclass more than to the idea of a vengeance oath, maybe consider changing the oath. Or if you prefer the vengeance stuff more than the hexblade stuff, maybe play a singleclass vengeance paly (STR > CHA, PAM + resilient con + GWM).

[jacob902uhhs]

The oath of vengeance profits a lot less from a high charisma and from a S&B approach than the other paladin oaths. So if you are sold to the idea of a hexblade/paladin multiclass more than to the idea of a vengeance oath, maybe consider changing the oath. Or if you prefer the vengeance stuff more than the hexblade stuff, maybe play a singleclass vengeance paly (STR > CHA, PAM + resilient con + GWM).

With Hexblade 1, you can use CHA to hit on attacks. Once you hit Hexblade 3, you need pact of the blade for CHA to hit with 2H weapons. So that negates the need for STR, besides your armor choice.

So you rolled, 15 STR, 13 DEX, 14 CON, 11 INT, 13 WIS, 17 CHA
Half elf makes, 15 STR, 13 DEX, 15 CON, 11 INT, 14 WIS, 19 CHA
Elven Accuracy is an option, bringing CHA to 20
Allowing you to pickup Res(Con) next, to bring CON to 16.

I suggest going 6 Paladin / Hexblade X
Starting at level 7 without extra attack as a melee can hurt. You have SCAG cantrips to balance, but I still fancy extra and Aura of Protect at the start.
Let's say you toss up Hexblades Curse turn 1.
L5 Booming Blade does 1d8+1d8+10 with a rider of 2d8 if they move for an average 19 damage with 9 more if they move.
Extra attack nets you 2d8+20 with no rider for an average 29 damage.
The biggest thing about extra attack, is more chances to smite on a crit. With your expanded crit and vow of enmity, it should come up a lot with triple advantage if you went EA.

Now the whole War Caster debate and components for spells. If you go shield and board, you can not cast a spell with a Somatic component if your hands are full.


"If a spell requires a somatic component, the caster must have free use of at least one hand to perform these gestures."


"A spellcaster must have a hand free to access a spell's material components - or to hold a focus - but i can be the same hand that he or she uses to perform somatic components."


"You can perform the somatic componets of spells even when you have weapons or a shield in one or both hands. (w/ War Caster)"
So spell casting is only a problem on S or V/S spells, if your weapon is your spellcasting focus. On VSM spells, you can cast away. Keep in mind, you shield can be your divine focus for paladin spells.
Also, Xanathar's introduced a common magic item called the Ruby of the Warmage. It allows any weapon fitted with it, to become an arcane focus, requires attunement.
Talk to your DM, and see if spellcasting will be a problem until you hit level 3 Hexblade, and try to work in Ruby of Warmage for your weapon of choice.

Invocations. There are quite a lot, the big impact ones at low levels are agonizing blast and devils sight. You can pick up Improved weapon if you so choose, but stay away from thirsting blade since extra attacks won't stack. If your campaign makes it to level 18, at 6P12W Lifedrinker is pretty awesome. You would be adding your CHA to your attack three times.
Eldritch Smite is an option, if you want to double dip in the smiting. Allows for 1d8+1d8 force damage per level of warlock slot used, and knocks Huge or smaller prone. So when you Crit, you can choose to launch two of your Warlock pact slots into your enemy for a cool 2d8+8d8+8d8+10 at 6P/5W for an average 91 damage. Which comes back after a short rest.

I'm going to advice you to go with defense as a fighting style, because we are going to try to skirt around that AC boundary, where nothing will want to attack us. At level 7, you will have 21 AC (Plate, Shield, Defense) with Shield on stand by.

Magic items are the best. So I've already mentioned a common magic item that can help you. Maybe we can try to look for something similar to Rod of the Pact Keeper for you, but reskin it as your hexblade weapon. Effectively a +1 Longsword, with +1 spell save DC, and use an action to regain a Pact spell slot. If that doesn't work, just a simple +1 Shield and +1 Longsword with Ruby of the War Mage will do just fine.

[KingWhipsy]

I see your point about starting off as 6 pally rather than 4/3, just seems juicy to get that extra ASI online next level up and to start with most of the warlock traits i'll be looking for. I really like the item recommendations and will look into those with the DM!

What are your thoughts on going Pact of the Chain over Pact of the Blade though? From your comment it seems like you think Pact of the Blade is still necessary for Warlock casting even with War Caster and Ruby of the Warmage? Ideally I could go Pact of the Chain and avoid having to grab Pact of the Blade just for spellcasting.

Last question, any good hexblade "deities" that my character could follow? I know Blackrazor doesn't allow attunement from a Lawful PC which makes me feel like it is more evil as a "deity" than what my paladin would want. I guess I could just work with the DM to create one of these as well.

Thanks for the help!

[jacob902uhhs]

I see your point about starting off as 6 pally rather than 4/3, just seems juicy to get that extra ASI online next level up and to start with most of the warlock traits i'll be looking for. I really like the item recommendations and will look into those with the DM!

What are your thoughts on going Pact of the Chain over Pact of the Blade though? From your comment it seems like you think Pact of the Blade is still necessary for Warlock casting even with War Caster and Ruby of the Warmage? Ideally I could go Pact of the Chain and avoid having to grab Pact of the Blade just for spellcasting.

Last question, any good hexblade "deities" that my character could follow? I know Blackrazor doesn't allow attunement from a Lawful PC which makes me feel like it is more evil as a "deity" than what my paladin would want. I guess I could just work with the DM to create one of these as well.

Thanks for the help!


No problem. I hope some of this has helped you narrow down your character. I think I misspoke earlier, Hexblade's curse adds proficiency to damage not charisma to damage.

Pact of the Blade isn't mandatory if you are going War Caster and Ruby of the Warmage path. But take note, Eldritch Smite requires level 5 Warlock w/ Pact of the Blade and Lifedrinker requires level 12 Warlock w/ Pact of the Blade. So if you don't care about smiting twice on a crit, you can still spread the same damage over two attacks. It's just something to double down on for when the criticals happen. Lifedrinker is a pretty big DPR buff though, but doesn't come online until we hit level 18. And if this campaign doesn't hit that level, then no harm done. If neither of those things bother you, then Pact of the Chain should be a nice addition to the character. Having an invisible familiar can be very helpful, and aid can come into play. If I remember right, it only gives advantage on the first attack and not both attacks.

I have very little experience with deities that would fit with a hexblade. So I can't help you out too much there. I've been more drawn to the Sorcadin version of this build. I like the flexibility sorcerer points add, and basically keeping spell slot progression. So a level 20 6/14 Sorcadin would have a 8th and 9th spell slot but only know up to 7th level. Allows for a lot of sorcerer point generation and up casting if the need arises. Getting a faux 4th attack at level 12 is a nice boon.

You might feel like your action economy is bloated. You have two great bonus actions, vow of enmity and hexblade's curse. So you decide which one you use on your first turn. If you don't get Res(Con) and/or War Caster, I would probably stay away from and self concentration. Shadow of Moil might still be of use though.

With the Warlock path, make sure you let your party be aware short rests are a viable option. I know my party just forgets about them all the time, or they think we can take a long rest after not managing their resources correctly. So if you are the only person who regains resources on a short rest, you might not run into them as much as you would like.

[KingWhipsy]

Yeah it's been super helpful. I dont think missing out on those invocations is a huge deal to my character and will plan on going pact of the chain. That being said do you think the best options for invocations then become Devil's Sight and Agonizing Blast?

Another big draw of the invisible familiar is to help boost my healing by delivering cure wounds as paladin is missing ranged heals so this helps remedy that.

Thanks for the help! Love talking about character creation/optimization!

[jacob902uhhs]

I'm always on board to talk about some Sorcerer/Warlock and Paladin multiclassing.

I'd plot out a quick road map for the character and see if you are cool with the abilities and when you get them.
But you should have a blast either way. Don't forget to work on the backstory, the more fleshed out the character is, the better time I usually have playing them.

Good luck!