Optimizing a Combat Character

[ReaperChaos]

Hello everyone! I would like you to help me create a Combat character. This is about optimization. While being well versed in many types of combat would be suitable, I would like Damage to be the primary purpose, with Survivability the secondary. For races, Variant Human or Half Elf. Point Buy only. All official books are allowed.


The party consists of a Gunslinger (Matt Mercer) Fighter, a Bear Totem Warrior Barbarian and a Forge Cleric in case anyone wonders.


To be a bit more specific in what I want, I understand that the biggest chance of achieving that is with a Full Caster. It would just be preferable for me to have the option of going into melee range should the need ever arise.

Create the character from level 1 and continue as if he would go to level 20, because there is a big chance we are and I would like to be prepared.

Thanks in advance!

[Drazhar]

1. Human feat Crossbow Expert 1-5 Ranger Gloom Stalker 6-9 Fighter Battlemaster 10-20 Rogue Scout - needs no explaination!
2. Human feat Warcaster 1-5 Sorcerer Divine Soul 6-7/8 Hexblade Warlock (Agonising Blast) 8/9 Sorcerer Divine Soul - all about the Eldritch Blast stacks w/ Hexblade's Curse, Hex, and stacking Charisma dmg.

[Corran]

To be a bit more specific in what I want, I understand that the biggest chance of achieving that is with a Full Caster. It would just be preferable for me to have the option of going into melee range should the need ever arise.

I think a bladesinger is exactly what you described here. Though you would have to be an elf instead of either a human or a halfelf. Unless of course the DM lifts this prerequisite.

Hexblade 1/ charisma caster X is somewhat of a charisma verion of the above, though you are one level down (regarding learning new spells) and you would also need one or two feats (resilient con & warcaster) to make up for the benefits that bladesong gives to a bladesinger (though the bladesinger probably needs resilient too). A potential good point of such a build though would be pairing stoneskin with armor of agathys at the mid and high levels, making you gishy enough for one or two fights during the day (depending on how many slots you spend on such a tactic).

[ReaperChaos]

1. Human feat Crossbow Expert 1-5 Ranger Gloom Stalker 6-9 Fighter Battlemaster 10-20 Rogue Scout - needs no explaination!
2. Human feat Warcaster 1-5 Sorcerer Divine Soul 6-7/8 Hexblade Warlock (Agonising Blast) 8/9 Sorcerer Divine Soul - all about the Eldritch Blast stacks w/ Hexblade's Curse, Hex, and stacking Charisma dmg.

Interesting choices. I like the fact you gave a non caster option as well, which as you said is really straight forward in what it does. I suppose you chose the Divine soul archetype for the cleric spells is that correct? So as to have Eldritch blast as my go to spell for Damage and use spell slots for control, buffs and debuffs right?

[ReaperChaos]

I think a bladesinger is exactly what you described here. Though you would have to be an elf instead of either a human or a halfelf. Unless of course the DM lifts this prerequisite.

Hexblade 1/ charisma caster X is somewhat of a charisma verion of the above, though you are one level down (regarding learning new spells) and you would also need one or two feats (resilient con & warcaster) to make up for the benefits that bladesong gives to a bladesinger (though the bladesinger probably needs resilient too). A potential good point of such a build though would be pairing stoneskin with armor of agathys at the mid and high levels, making you gishy enough for one or two fights during the day (depending on how many slots you spend on such a tactic).

Bladesinger was indeed an option I considered, though I also wanted the opinion of others regarding its capability. However, the restriction says that half elves can also learn it. As for the warlock dip charisma multiclass, one can choose to trade 2 Hit Points and wisdom proficiency for Constitution should there be a need for more ASI. Not saying that Wisdom is less important than Constitution regarding saving throws. And yeah the stoneskin/ Armor of Agathys combination is good if you are fighting enemies without magic weaponry.

[Unoriginal]

To be a bit more specific in what I want, I understand that the biggest chance of achieving that is with a Full Caster.

...how?

Full casters aren't known for survavibility (aside from lvl 20 Moon Druids) and while they're good at big damage outbursts, they're not the most consistant in that category either.

What kind of damage would you like to do?

[GlenSmash!]

A Hexblade that primarily Eldritch Blasts is very easy to do high damage with, and has decent armor, and with Armor of Agathys really punishes those that are successful at hitting it.

[Mortis_Elrod]

Sun Soul Monk. just...straight up. Perfectly viable ranged and melee.

[ReaperChaos]

...how?

Full casters aren't known for survavibility (aside from lvl 20 Moon Druids) and while they're good at big damage outbursts, they're not the most consistant in that category either.

What kind of damage would you like to do?

I personally believe everything depends on how you build it. I am not saying I expect a Caster who will fight on the frontlines like a Fighter, I just want the option to be able to defend myself in close combat should long range casting be unable. As for damage, again that's up to you. I want to hear opinions.

[ReaperChaos]

A Hexblade that primarily Eldritch Blasts is very easy to do high damage with, and has decent armor, and with Armor of Agathys really punishes those that are successful at hitting it.

Nice reply. Hexblade is a dominant answer, mostly as a dip. It's nice that someone added it as a full progression.

[GlenSmash!]

Nice reply. Hexblade is a dominant answer, mostly as a dip. It's nice that someone added it as a full progression.

I like things that are easy.

[ReaperChaos]

Sun Soul Monk. just...straight up. Perfectly viable ranged and melee.

That's a unique answer! Certainly didn't expect a Monk to show up as a choice. I get why you chose it. But couldn't you say that Kensei is a good choice as well if you use a Longbow?

[RSP]

I’d go either Hexblade/Sorc or Bladesinger. If going BS, I’d go full elf rather than Half Elf for the better stats, particularly a High Elf, though Eladrin for the free teleport works too.

BS gets you the best combo of full caster who can melee, though Hexblade/Sorc will be better with damage and probably survivability (those SR slots broken down for extra Shields/Sanctuary’s [if Divine Soul], really help).

I’m about to play a Hexblade/Sorc that focuses on melee. Plan is to go HB 5 for Extra Attack, then DS Sorc 3 for metamagic. Grab Resilient (Con) at HB 4. Run Hex as your Concentration spell and use Pact Magic slots to breakdown into 1st level slots for use as Shield, Absorb Elements and Sanctuary’s. Should be decent dam and good survivability. Can have a Fear in reserve if needed in a jam, but otherwise just dedicate those slots to defensive 1st level slots.

[ReaperChaos]

I’d go either Hexblade/Sorc or Bladesinger. If going BS, I’d go full elf rather than Half Elf for the better stats, particularly a High Elf, though Eladrin for the free teleport works too.

BS gets you the best combo of full caster who can melee, though Hexblade/Sorc will be better with damage and probably survivability (those SR slots broken down for extra Shields/Sanctuary’s [if Divine Soul], really help).

I’m about to play a Hexblade/Sorc that focuses on melee. Plan is to go HB 5 for Extra Attack, then DS Sorc 3 for metamagic. Grab Resilient (Con) at HB 4. Run Hex as your Concentration spell and use Pact Magic slots to breakdown into 1st level slots for use as Shield, Absorb Elements and Sanctuary’s. Should be decent dam and good survivability. Can have a Fear in reserve if needed in a jam, but otherwise just dedicate those slots to defensive 1st level slots.

Hearing a lot of good stuff about the Bladesinger and Sorlock. I suppose that should you ever reach level 20 with that build, it would be somewhere along the lines of Warlock 12/ Sorcerer 8 for the Life drinker?

[MaxWilson]

Sun Soul Monk. just...straight up. Perfectly viable ranged and melee.

Nitpick: Sun Soul monks have pathetic ranged capability, only 30', for middling damage. If a dragon is strafing you with breath weapons from the air, the Sun Soul monk can't even reach the dragon without a readied action. I mean, sure, you can use a shortbow like any other monk, and that will work reasonably well--but that's not due to Sun Soul features.

Sun Soul monks are close-range specialists.

[RSP]

Hearing a lot of good stuff about the Bladesinger and Sorlock. I suppose that should you ever reach level 20 with that build, it would be somewhere along the lines of Warlock 12/ Sorcerer 8 for the Life drinker?

That would be my preferred breakdown, if hitting 20. Ideally you’d want to have Sorc level match Warlock Spell Slot level, so as not to lose SPs on conversion (that is, level 9 Warlock has 5th level slots, so youd want Sorc 5 to handle the flexed SPs as they transfer into 1st level slots). Plus level 11 Hexblade gets you three 5th level slots to breakdown.

The real issue is staying committed to the using of higher level Warlock/Sorc slots for breaking down to 1st level. Essentially, round 1: BA cast Hex using Pact Magic slots for 8-24 hour duration, Attack Action, save Reaction for Shield/Absorb Elements. Next round, if not needing to transfer Hex, BA Sanctuary if multiple enemies in attacking you range, Attack Action, save Reaction for Shield/AE, if needed.

You won’t need Shield every turn with Med Armor and an actual shield, and probably should save Sanctuary for when there’s more than 1 attacker, but you should be able use those 1st level slots to greatly decrease the amount of hits you take. At HB 10 you can use Armor of Hexes when appropriate. Damage of 1d8+Cha+1d6+1 x2 should be decent (Improved Pact Weapon as an invocation for the +1 to hit/dam and using weapon as a focus - bonus points if you find a Flametongue sword which works with the +1 and grants +2d6 damage).

[CTurbo]

Pure Hexblade/Blade pact would work.

Any Paladin/Sorcerer, Paladin/Warlock, or Paladin/Bard would be awesome.

The Ranger/Fighter/Rogue Archer is always great. I'd go Hunter or Gloom Stalker 5, Fighter 2, Scout if Hunter and Assassin if Gloom Stalker Rogue 13

The Ranger/Fighter/Rogue that takes both Archery and either Dueling or TWF is great at all combat. I'd go Hunter or Gloom Stalker Ranger 5, Fighter 2, Swashbuckler 13

Swashbuckler pairs will with any of the Cha casters too. Draconic Sorcerer 1/Swashbuckler X is great. You get 13+Dex AC and Booming Blade. Take a few more Sorcerer levels if you want more magic. Swashbuckler/Valor or Swords Bard is strong too as is Swashbuckler Fiend/Bladelock. Hex is the popular choice but I don't like it as much with a Rogue multiclass since Dex is still so important.

EK Fighter/Arcane Trickster is always strong.

EK Fighter/Bladesinger too

EK Fighter/Abjurer Wizard

Arcane Trickster/Bladesinger

The options are endless

[Drazhar]

Interesting choices. I like the fact you gave a non caster option as well, which as you said is really straight forward in what it does. I suppose you chose the Divine soul archetype for the cleric spells is that correct? So as to have Eldritch blast as my go to spell for Damage and use spell slots for control, buffs and debuffs right?

The first one, I've had fun with. You have versatility with the handful of spells from Ranger (Healing Spirit, a must!), the Combat Maneuvers from Fighter to set up my Rogues and for more SA's and use Precision to back up my shots. Finally went Scout to allow the ability to cut out as an enemy gets close.

Correct, it gives you some ability to grow with the party. You can either be the buffer, healer, or go straight damage with sorcerer spells. However the way I would use it is to keep spell slots to fuel my EB by spending Sorcerer Points to Quicken EB for more damage. But the spells are there for the utility they serve. In other words this sorcerer is not there for a handful of spells and then hide in a corner!

[Silkensword]

Playing Bladesingers is the most fun i've ever had playing fifth edition. BIG recommendation.

[Drazhar]

Playing Bladesingers is the most fun i've ever had playing fifth edition. BIG recommendation.

Amen! The ability to walk up to big baddie of the week and have this interaction:

DM: *rolls a 24 to hit, "What is your AC?"
YOU: 22
DM: Ok, the creature hits! For 22 acid damage.
YOU: *casts Shield, "No you don't!"
DM: *frustration :smallfurious:

[Mortis_Elrod]

Nitpick: Sun Soul monks have pathetic ranged capability, only 30', for middling damage. If a dragon is strafing you with breath weapons from the air, the Sun Soul monk can't even reach the dragon without a readied action. I mean, sure, you can use a shortbow like any other monk, and that will work reasonably well--but that's not due to Sun Soul features.

Sun Soul monks are close-range specialists.

Well sure, but how often is that gonna happen? Sunsoul makes a perfect mid range skirmisher in any other circumstance at least until they get level 11 in which case you have plenty of range.

So yeah if you see a dragon before level 11 you should grab that shortbow, but honestly you should have it on you anyways. It's not like its heavy, its a great weapon to have until you can use your other features.


That's a unique answer! Certainly didn't expect a Monk to show up as a choice. I get why you chose it. But couldn't you say that Kensei is a good choice as well if you use a Longbow?
Because a sizable amount of people view Kensei as a 'trap' or just a bad option. I like both but Sun Soul is flashier. Kensei is deff more consistent though.

[GlenSmash!]

Because a sizable amount of people view Kensei as a 'trap' or just a bad option.

This is news to me.

[CaptAl]

I loved playing my Bladesinger 7/AT 5. My damage was solid, but not really spectacular round to round. I was the scout, trap finder, general problem solver, and the nearly unhittable off-tank. But again, wasn't the best damage dealer. It's just not what I focused on, and not really what a BS is best at imo. My melee was good with a haste spell, or an improved invisibility, but I still just hit like a level 5 rogue with BB/GFB. I almost never used extra attack. Didn't need it.

Hexblade sorlocks are incredibly effective Eldritch Blasters who can mix it up when mobs get past the front line. Solid defense, good control, and hits like a fighter with an equal attack stat most rounds.

I feel like the gloomstalker with Xbow expert, sharpshooter, archery style, spells, and a dip in fighter for action surge is probably going to be top line for most of the game.

[Silkensword]

Amen! The ability to walk up to big baddie of the week and have this interaction:

DM: *rolls a 24 to hit, "What is your AC?"
YOU: 22
DM: Ok, the creature hits! For 22 acid damage.
YOU: *casts Shield, "No you don't!"
DM: *frustration :smallfurious:

Take absorb elements for unavoidable AoE's, defensive contingency's, and the like, and your DM will just, absolutely love you.

My bladesinger is so hard to hit that my DM made my squire follow me around on dangerous missions so I'd have someone to protect (of course, with my consent, they didnt make this decision over my head :D)

[Silkensword]

Monks get most of the cool stuff from the monk class itself, not the subclass- the monk base is already incredibly powerful. Open hand and Drunken Master are my personal favourites.

[Ganymede]

Hello everyone! I would like you to help me create a Combat character. This is about optimization. ...

Create the character from level 1 and continue as if he would go to level 20, because there is a big chance we are and I would like to be prepared.

Thanks in advance!

I would very strongly urge you to read the section of the PHB on creating characters.