Can't decide where to take my warlock (build wise)....

[Koiju]

OK, so the main question is 'Tome or Chain?'
But that question by itself has been asked many times I'm sure, so I'm going to give much more context:

First off, I have read numerous guides on the subject, and tried to get as much information as I can on their differences, but I'm still having trouble deciding.
(Note that this is the first character I have played in 5E, I have played plenty of 2E, 3E and Pathfinder though)
At first, I was gonna go Tome, partly because I liked the flavour, partly cos I like the idea of rituals, and partly because aspect of the moon just seems fun.
At the time the only ritual caster in our party was a druid, so I also felt itd be nice to fill the remaining ritual niche.

However, new players have been added to the adventure, and some have left, we are currently level 2, the party will become the following:
Halfling Warlock (Me)
Elf Monk (I think hes going drunken master or somthing, his character drinks alot :P)
Human Rogue (going arcane trickster)
(I think human?) Wizard (specialising in divination)
? Fighter (Dont remember what they're going, sorry :S)

Naturally, this means that the ritual stuff is gonna be pretty well covered, or so it seems to my limited knowledge, at least.
I have gone Archfey patron, I am very happy with both being Archfey, and being a Halfling Warlock.
I have considered focusing more on stealth, illusions and other such fey-like things, I like this idea, but a: it seems redundant with an arcane trickster (maybe? im not sure?) and b: that doesnt answer the question of 'tome or chain?'.

Basicly I'm hoping that I can benifit from your supirior 5E knowledge and more importantly, experience, to let me know what might be an 'optimal' choice, and wether that even matters, should I just go with whatever I feel happiest playing as regardless of party composition? (cos it doesnt matter anyway?). Or is it important to cover other things the party might need?

Oh, as additional information, if I did go Chain, I was thinking of a psudo-dragon, yes im aware its not the 'optimal' choice, but I do so love dragons :P that and my character has a 9 in wisdom, and having an alert familiar while my character is 'away with the fairies' (pun intended :P) seems both interesting role play wise, and usfull mechanically.

Also for refference, my characters stats are: STR 9, DEX 15, CON 12, INT 10, WIS 9, CHA 17

Thank you very much for your thoughts and recomendations, and please elaberate on why you'd pick the option your suggesting, I'd like to know your thinking behind the choice :)


[EDIT]: I thought I'd add some more context:
My character background is entertainer and I have permission from the GM that my eldrich blasts have the (purely visual, no mechanical change) appearance of fireworks, so I shoot fireworks at my enemies :P
I've decided to run with this idea and my character is very happy-go-lucky and cheerful, all the time, regardless of context. They also use any excuse to have a party and get everyone involved.
I tend to like a certain amount of self sufficiency, but also the ability to fullfill a niche role within the group if needed. IE, I tend to like situational stuff more than others might, and its why I like the warlock mechanic of spells back on short rest, so if push comes to shove I can take an hour rest to get back enough to deal with a specific situation (as long as its not too time sensative, obviously).
I'm not a min/maxer and like some flavour in my choices, but equally, I want to be usfull to the group.
All official books are allowed. Including any Unearthed Arcana that seem resonable to the DM.

[CTurbo]

Either would be fine, but I think I would go Tome. Having an improved familiar is a powerful tool, but Chain in general is kind of lacking in other ways. Like your entire class feature is having the powered up familiar. I've always thought it needed something else. Your familiar will either steal the show or be a non factor. When your familiar is a non factor, you are just a worse than normal Warlock. Tome has way more utility with the extra cantrips and the rituals.

[DarkKnightJin]

My own personal bias with casters is that I *LOVE* cantrips. So, any Warlock I make or think up, will always go Tome if they get 3 levels under their belt.

The only exception I've made to this idea thus far had been a (PS: Zendikar) Vampire HexbladeLock.
Because fricken Alucard of SotN fame. Also the Castlevania anime on Netflix at the time.

As for Invocation.. I know that Aspect of the Moon is mechanically pretty lame.. but I just can't resist the pull it has for sheer flavor.
My Fighter/Warlock, if and when they reach their 3rd level of Warlock, will go Tome, and swap out one of their Invocation picks for AotM, so he can be the never-sleeping crazy dude in the party. Always working on stuff.

[rbstr]

Either would be fine, but I think I would go Tome. Having an improved familiar is a powerful tool, but Chain in general is kind of lacking in other ways. Like your entire class feature is having the powered up familiar. I've always thought it needed something else. Your familiar will either steal the show or be a non factor. When your familiar is a non factor, you are just a worse than normal Warlock. Tome has way more utility with the extra cantrips and the rituals.

The same could be said of Tome if you ignore the invocations: Tome is just a couple cantrips. I don't get giddy by loading up on cantrips like some people do. They're fine, sure, there's occasionally fun stuff to be done but it's not something that blows the upgraded familiar out of the water by any means. The familiar can do lots of sun stuff.

It's not until you introduce invocations that Tome can get the (highly dm dependent in my experience) very strong ritual access. But Chain also has plenty going for it in the invocations:
Maximized personal healing from Gift of the ever-living ones at low level
and at-will, no-spell-slot, hold monster against fiends, celestials and elementals at level 15.

[Sinon]

Tome gives you a lot: the cantrips and later, with the right invocation, rituals, one of which can also give you a familiar.

It’s solid. One of the advantages is you can take something like Shillelagh and have a nice melee attack. I also recommend Guidance.

I will say, when you get those bonus cantrips, it’s awesome. You suddenly have all the tools you want. But then you hit fourth level and it’s like, meh, another cantrip.

About the rituals: I would check with my DM about access. If the DM is going to be cool about providing access, great. If he isn’t, well this is a pact and invocation investment, it needs to pay off.

Secondly, what rituals do you want, that the wizard can’t get more easily? A lot of them really are great, but a lot of them are only situationally useful.

On the other hand, a pet dragon? How effing cool is a pet dragon? I will say that when it comes to advanced familiars, I do prefer thumbs and the ability to speak, but your dragon can fly, has blindsight, and can communicate telepathically. It is also intelligent enough to follow complex plans and improvise.

I cannot imagine a scenario where you’d regret having a pseudodragon familiar.

For me, this would come down to how I envision my character – though you can reflavor things however you like, there’s a big difference between a warlock lugging around a book of secret lore and magical power and a scamp with magical best friend.

[CTurbo]

This decision is very much a personal preference decision. They're both really good IMO.

[CaptAl]

Both are fantastic ways to go. I would say that with the limited spell slots of an arcane trickster, though, you are more likely to step on their toes with the improved familiar by way of the invisible super scout as opposed to using your illusion magic.

Rituals are mostly covered with your wizard etc etc. I would think about what role you want to fill. An expendable invisible familiar is a fantastic way to be the scout, as I mentioned above. If you want to be the 'face' then tome brings things like guidance and friends to help ensure you never fail those deception checks.

Considering your background as an entertainer I would lean towards Tome, and buff those charisma skills as much as possible. Mask of many faces + friends plays heavily into that Fey theme of a trickster/prankster as well.

Basically, you can't go wrong. Both are incredibly fun and flavorful.

[Koiju]

Thanks for the replies and comments everyone :) some interesting information here, and some great thoughts on flavour stuff.

I'd like to narrow down some mechanical questions though.

1: With Tome + a divination wizard in the party, I assumed that the ritual casting would be mostly redundant, is this not the case? What good reasons are their to have more than 1 ritual caster in the group? What rituals would you recommend for such a party composition?

2: Equally what good reasons might there be to have more than one stealthy/sneaky/tricky character in the party? (IE, with the arcane trickster) Perhaps some specific synergies or ways to work together to have better results than just one working alone?

3: How about the lack of healing? I've been told not having a healer is less of an issue in 5E, should I pick up the 'Healing Elixir' warlock spell just in case? or is this a non-issue? I feel like if I did this would also significantly increase the value of the 'gift of the ever living ones' invocation.
(Also, Helaing Elixir seems super OP to me, but maybe its just me? I spose any sensible DM wont let me spam short rests cos that would be cheesy and imersion breaking :P)

[Corran]

2: Equally what good reasons might there be to have more than one stealthy/sneaky/tricky character in the party? (IE, with the arcane trickster) Perhaps some specific synergies or ways to work together to have better results than just one working alone?
Usually it works best for the stealthy character to have some backup in the form of another second stealthy character that follows closely by, when something unforeseen happens or for when something goes wrong. Then the second stealth character can cause a distraction to draw some/all of the attention away from the first stealth character , or he can outright step in to help them if they cant escape (depending on how dire the situation is for the first char). Now, since you are a caster, I would say that there are some spells that can really help the rogue when scouting, but then again, since the rogue is an arcane trickster, he may as well take some of these spells for himself (such as invisibility). And the most classic example of a quick way out, that is a dimension door, unfortunately wouldn't benefit the rogue as he is a human and you play a halfling. But still, two stealth characters are usually safer and better than one.

[Citan]

Thanks for the replies and comments everyone :) some interesting information here, and some great thoughts on flavour stuff.

I'd like to narrow down some mechanical questions though.

1: With Tome + a divination wizard in the party, I assumed that the ritual casting would be mostly redundant, is this not the case? What good reasons are their to have more than 1 ritual caster in the group? What rituals would you recommend for such a party composition?

2: Equally what good reasons might there be to have more than one stealthy/sneaky/tricky character in the party? (IE, with the arcane trickster) Perhaps some specific synergies or ways to work together to have better results than just one working alone?

3: How about the lack of healing? I've been told not having a healer is less of an issue in 5E, should I pick up the 'Healing Elixir' warlock spell just in case? or is this a non-issue? I feel like if I did this would also significantly increase the value of the 'gift of the ever living ones' invocation.
(Also, Helaing Elixir seems super OP to me, but maybe its just me? I spose any sensible DM wont let me spam short rests cos that would be cheesy and imersion breaking :P)
Hi!

First, per your original question, I agree with those above, either is a great choice. :)

Now on to your points.

1. Not necessarily.
First there may be situations in which party has to split, in which case you can ensure both groups get adventuring utility covered.
Second in many situations where time is a factor, having two people setting up camp with Alarm or having two Phantom Steeds to carry the group (provided number and size of people can be carried by those) is great.
Third, there may be times at which party wants a Leomund's Tiny Hut cast, but the Wizard is concentrating on a spell he doesn't want broken (preparing a Hallucinatory Terrain or a Planar Binding, or maintaining a Control Weather). You can take care of it (reverse being also true if for example you are maintaining a successful Suggestion).
Fourth, there are many great rituals that Wizard doesn't get: Animal Messenger for long-range communication, Beast Sense for scouting, Divination to try and get precious information, Silence to ease an infiltration or reduce caster threat, Forbiddance to trivialize encounters or secure a hold, etc...

That's actually one of the running plagues around here, the idea that because one class gets something earlier, others who get the same thing later are subpar.
Not only have you no guarantee that this "better" class is around when you need a particular spell / feature, you don't have guarantee either that the character still has the resources to use it, is in condition to use it, and actually willing to use it.
So the more people have access to something, the higher the chance that this something can be used in the best condition and time. :)

2. Two is most always better than one, unless one of the two is a usless moron. :)
No time to get into potential synergies between Rogue and Warlocks, but they exist.
At the minimum, it's two chances over one to detect things (even with Reliable Talent, you can still miss some things, plus Rogue may not have all proficiencies for the situation).
At the maximum, you may fall into a situation in which you are ambushed or have to fight some other way. Arcane Trickster may be fine alone, but with you it's much easier: remember Silence? Remember upcast Invisibility? It's much less chance to get noticed, and it means Rogue can keep some of its precious slots for actual combat power (like Mirror image).
You can also keep up with Rogue with a simple Expeditious Retreat, or maybe Fly both of you.
Or maybe a Fear or Hypnotic Pattern will save your hides because it was a fight you couldn't expect to win.

3. Healing is mainly an issue when tide goes against you and people start falling down.
Nothing bests Healing Words or the like for these situation (ranged effects healing HP from 0 quickly).
Healing Elixir is a very bad spell for you unfortunately: doesn't scale (so big waste of slot) means not interesting, especially on a class that gets 3 slots available at maximum at any given time.
You'd better grab Healer/Inspiring Leader feat (who recharge on short rest) or pick one level into Divine Soul Sorcerer to grab Healing Words and Bless (or Bard for Healing Words and Dissonant Whispers which your Rogue pal will love, plus long-rest Bardic Inspiration) who at least scale decently if really a) party needs healing b) nobody else is better suited to get some, c) there is no available NPC nor magic item helping with potion storage.

[QuickLyRaiNbow]

I don't think the upgrade from owl to pseudodragon is worth losing the Tome features.

[Aleister VII]

Based solely on your build's flavor I'll go pact of the chain, sure tome nets you ritual casting and extra cantrips both are incredibly good but you already have a wizard in your party so rituals are most likely covered, the cantrips are still nice but IMO you already has enough with minor illusion and EB, don't get my wrong if you take pact of the tome make sure of grab some good cantrips like guidance, maybe shillelagh if you wanna go melee.

Then, why chain? Simply, a pixie familiar, it's my favorite familiar and has a lot of flavor, you can say that it's an assistant send by your patron or whatever and heart signet is much more useful than what people usually think.

[QuickLyRaiNbow]

Based solely on your build's flavor I'll go pact of the chain, sure tome nets you ritual casting and extra cantrips both are incredibly good but you already have a wizard in your party so rituals are most likely covered, the cantrips are still nice but IMO you already has enough with minor illusion and EB, don't get my wrong if you take pact of the tome make sure of grab some good cantrips like guidance, maybe shillelagh if you wanna go melee.

Then, why chain? Simply, a pixie familiar, it's my favorite familiar and has a lot of flavor, you can say that it's an assistant send by your patron or whatever and heart signet is much more useful than what people usually think.

I'm curious here, Aleister. Is there a specific citation showing that pixies, sprites or other nonstandard familiars are actually available? I was working on making a Chainlock last week, and I found a lot of contradictory information.

[Sinon]

I'm curious here, Aleister. Is there a specific citation showing that pixies, sprites or other nonstandard familiars are actually available? I was working on making a Chainlock last week, and I found a lot of contradictory information.

Imps, Sprites, Quasits, and Psuedodragons are in the PHB for pact of the chain, page 107. There are a lot of other tiny creatures that get mentioned as potential familiars in the MM and VGM, but that's totally a DM's call. One I'd make very carefully.

I think, because of the reference to heart sight, Aleister misspoke and meant Sprite, not Pixie.

1: Tomelock can get rituals from any list; wizard only gets wizard. So, Detect Poison and Disease or Animal Messenger might be helpful.

But, yeah. The wizard gets most of the good ones, and this makes the choice less optimal.

But it is still very flavorful and not useless. I knew a warlock who obsessively cast Augury, yes, even knowing that multiple castings got less accurate, but it was a character thing, and it fit with his personality (Everything was an omen, and it was almost always one of DOOM, always said in ALLCAPS.)

2: Other people mentioned this, but you can never have too many sneaky people. And a creature like a pseudodragon is smart enough that you can send it with the rogue to help him, giving him advantage on appropriate skill checks.

With Blindsight and telepathy, your dragon could silently warn the scout of something it is able to see and also send warnings back to you guys. (An owl can't do that.)

It also has an attack, which at later levels will be less valuable but now, +4 to hit and a 11 DC isn't that bad. (Just keep 10 gp worth of ritual components handy.)

3: Healing is less important in 5e, and though I always prefer to have someone, this is a party problem, not yours alone to solve.
And, the good news is that your front-line types are going to be more in need of short rests to get their hp back up, the fighter's second wind, as well. That's good for you.

If it is a problem, and UA stuff like Healing Elixir isn't available, a dip in bard for some healing spells, plus cantrips and inspiration, isn't a bad way to go.

[Koiju]

Thanks for the continued ideas :)

I'm learning towards Tome at this point, the cantrip options seem too important to pass up to me (light/dancing lights cos I'm a halfling, spare the dying because we have no healer, shillelagh and guidence as mention here, other good options) and having the druid rituals would be both usful and thematically appropriate.

Feel free to keep commenting though if anyone has any more ideas, as I'm still thinking about it.

Thanks again!