So, which non-Marvel characters could lift Thor's hammer?

[Jeivar]

Fiction is far from short on heroes, but which ones can truly be called pure of heart? I don't know if he's even pulled it off in the comics, but in the movies Steve Rogers was only able to budge it. And he isn't exactly pompous or aggressive.

Here are my suggestions off the top of my head:

Wonder Woman.

Princess Celestia.

Snow White (the Snow White and the Huntsman version).

Samurai Jack. (an evil person can lift his sword, but not hurt anyone with it)

Possibly Yoda.

[Wraith]

There have been a few cross-over comics over the years. Both Wonder Woman and Superman have wielded the hammer on more than one occasion. In fact, Superman dual-wielded it with Captain America's shield, too. :smalltongue:

Conan the Barbarian has done so too; although it was a guest appearance in a Marvel comic, he's still originally a non-Marvel character.

Sir Gawain of the Arthurian mythology might be able to. He was renowned for being both honourable and noble, willingly laying down his life for his king in order to keep his word and generally being the best of the Knights of the Round Table. Lancelot might also be a candidate, depending on when you meet him - some stories have him being hot-headed and even adulterous, so YMMV.

Jon Snow, from Game of Thrones, has pretty much all of the desirable qualities in a hero and leader. Especially later on when he starts losing his self-doubt and finds a purpose beyond just existing in the Night Watch.

Captain Carrot Ironfoundersson of the Ankh-Morpork City Watch (Discworld novels). Arguably Sam Vimes too, as he's absolutely a hero though a very cynical one.

[Aotrs Commander]

In the Amalgam mini series DC and Marvel did a long time ago, Wondy actually pick up Thor's Hammer, and when she fought Storm, she actually put it down to fight fairly. So, yeah.

I would reckon Supes probably ought to be able to. (Edit: ninja'd - yes, then.)

Optimus Prime, maybe? (G1 version, anyway.)

You would expect a fair propotion of Paladins should and almost certainly any Exalted (as in the book of exalted cheese Exalted) character.

I'm see your Celestia and raise you Pinkie Pie (mostly because it would be funny) and possibly Cadance. (Not Luna though, for obvious reasons...)

I would say NOT Yoda, or largely any Jedi, since I think they are much closer to LN than LE; possible exception for (early) Legends Luke, who didn't have their silly baggage that got them wiped out so often...

(...

Much as I WANT to see Ahsoka wielding Thor's hammer, she's too much lke her master, I fear.)

Nanoha Takamachi?

Naruto Uzumaki?

Goku? (Though that would be somewhat guilding the lily, one feels. Maybe Krillen, so he can actually be as awesome as he should be, for once; I mean, dude's sort of earned it, really.)



Dangermouse.

Earthworm Jim.

Joxor the Mighty. (Because that is too funny to to be a thing...)

(Maybe Gabby mid-series.)

[Telonius]

:elan: "Oo! Ooo! Pick me!"

(Relevant comic (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0109.html))

From Tolkien: Tom Bombadil. (Though he'd probably just juggle it or something silly like that).

Carrot Ironfoundersson, from Discworld.

Piffany, from Nodwick.

[Jeivar]

Conan the Barbarian has done so too; although it was a guest appearance in a Marvel comic, he's still originally a non-Marvel character.


... whaaat? I'm halfway through reading Robert Howard's original Conan stories, and his Conan is an amoral beast. He's only a hero in the classical Greek sense, and in no way kind, self-sacrificing or idealistic.

[Wraith]

I don't disagree, but it was a part of their What If...? alternate reality story series. By their very definition, characters in those act at least slightly different to their normal continuity - in this one, Conan was a boisterous but still honourable warrior, much like Thor himself.

Frankly, Conan vs. Wolverine ended in a much more believable way. :smalltongue:


Goku? (Though that would be somewhat guilding the lily, one feels. Maybe Krillen, so he can actually be as awesome as he should be, for once; I mean, dude's sort of earned it, really.)

Of all the Z-Fighters, I might suggest Gohan instead of Goku? The latter can be somewhat bull-headed and TOO eager to fight, but Gohan is tempered with humility without being as single-minded

[Otomodachi]

Sir Gawain of the Arthurian mythology might be able to. He was renowned for being both honourable and noble, willingly laying down his life for his king in order to keep his word and generally being the best of the Knights of the Round Table. Lancelot might also be a candidate, depending on when you meet him - some stories have him being hot-headed and even adulterous, so YMMV.



Didn't Gawain and his brothers violate guest rights and kill a guy that was hitting on their mom? That seems like a disqualifier. Did you mean Galahad?

[Some Android]

Saitama. Not necessarily because he's so aligned to good and righteousness. More in that I literally don't see anything stopping him from completing a feat related to moving an object.

I'm also curious if any Homestar Runner characters could lift it. I'm not sure how pure those characters are. Strong Sad seems to be the closest of the main bunch. Homsar maybe if only because he seems capable of bending the laws of reality (and by extension the laws required to lift something). I'm not sure if Stinkoman could but I really really hope so! "Is this large magic hammer asking for a CHALLENGE?!?!?!?!"

[Telonius]

Saitama. Not necessarily because he's so aligned to good and righteousness. More in that I literally don't see anything stopping him from completing a feat related to moving an object.

Even if he couldn't move the hammer itself, I could see him moving the earth a few feet away from the hammer.

[Some Android]

Even if he couldn't move the hammer itself, I could see him moving the earth a few feet away from the hammer.

It's like Futurama - Saitama doesn't move the hammer at all. He moves the rest of the universe, and the hammer stays in the same place.

[ben-zayb]

Does Mr. Rogers count as a character?

Wally West, whether through brute speed force or just being plain worthy

Kyle Rayner, whether through brute willpower (?) or just being plain worthy

Toonforce/Memeforce characters would likely be able to:
Bugs Bunny
Popeye
Kirby
Chuck Norris
John Cena
Batman with prep
Jackie Chan can catch and carry Mjolnir while already carrying both a baby and a priceless antique vase, and while in the middle of fighting a wave of mooks

[Some Android]

Does Mr. Rogers count as a character?

No I'm curious what other characters from children's media could lift it...

[Mordar]

... whaaat? I'm halfway through reading Robert Howard's original Conan stories, and his Conan is an amoral beast. He's only a hero in the classical Greek sense, and in no way kind, self-sacrificing or idealistic.

Thor is no angel. The measure of worthy must be more than simply good hearted and combat-capable (and certainly more than strong).

I would argue Conan is closer to Thor than Cap or Superman...at least in terms of his specific kind of mettle. Maybe the combination of willing to die (but only after piling the bodies of his enemies around him) for a cause *he* sees as just, and to hell with everyone else...but never being a tyrant or forgetting that there are those "beneath" him that are worthy of his respect.

I dunno, but I buy it. I also buy Carrot.

I feel more Arthur than Galahad...because again, I think the "worthy" has less to do with good hearted.

Interesting thought experiment!
- M

[BeerMug Paladin]

I agree on Elan.

Any reality-warping cloud-cuckoolander.

Oskar Schindler.

Steven Universe.

Bobby Hill.

[Otomodachi]

I feel more Arthur than Galahad...because again, I think the "worthy" has less to do with good hearted.


Personally I think Lancelot is the best Thor analogue, a guy who lives to fight while also having a moral code he adheres to pretty well. Worth mentioning, though, that Galahad wasn't JUST a good-hearted dude, he was also a better fighter than his dad.

I'm curious what people's opinions are on what "worthiness" means in this case? I did some research (googled for a couple minutes) and it seems the hammer's concept of worthiness is less strictly codified than I had guessed before starting my search.

[Jeivar]

Batman with prep

... if you mean in the sense of "moving the earth beneath the hammer with construction equipment", then yes.

He can't "prep" his way into worthiness in the eyes of mystical forces.

[Zevox]

I'm curious what people's opinions are on what "worthiness" means in this case? I did some research (googled for a couple minutes) and it seems the hammer's concept of worthiness is less strictly codified than I had guessed before starting my search.
Yeah, that's kind of my issue with the question. The films at least have never made it particularly clear what qualities exactly constituted being "worthy" of wielding Mjolnir, and some admittedly-brief internet research isn't turning up anything specific from the comics either. Hard to answer the question if that part doesn't have any guidelines beyond "be like Thor somehow."

[Anymage]

Yoda could. As could Palpatine. Or Magneto.

When you open up fantasy, you don't have to touch something to lift it.

[Mordar]

Personally I think Lancelot is the best Thor analogue, a guy who lives to fight while also having a moral code he adheres to pretty well. Worth mentioning, though, that Galahad wasn't JUST a good-hearted dude, he was also a better fighter than his dad.

I'm curious what people's opinions are on what "worthiness" means in this case? I did some research (googled for a couple minutes) and it seems the hammer's concept of worthiness is less strictly codified than I had guessed before starting my search.

I considered Lancelot as well...but the reason I decided on Arthur is the kingship portion. Taking on the big decisions, being a leader of not just soldiers...something like that.

I don't think I can even codify my opinion on the "worthy" clause...but I think it has to contain:

Bravery, but not foolhardiness;
Martial skill/ability;
Kingship/leaderhood - willing to lead men/women to their deaths for the right cause, and to fight to the death for those that follow the person;
Strength of arm;
Strength of heart;
Martial/political pragmatism(?)


That last one is something I'm trying to work through...what it really means is the "willing to fight because it is the most likely solution", not just "fight, but only as a last resort".

I think there is a "willing to smash people in the face" component, not just a "willing to risk oneself" component that I don't know how to articulate. Something about embracing the spirit of combat.

- M

[Otomodachi]

I considered Lancelot as well...but the reason I decided on Arthur is the kingship portion. Taking on the big decisions, being a leader of not just soldiers...something like that.

I don't think I can even codify my opinion on the "worthy" clause...but I think it has to contain:

Bravery, but not foolhardiness;
Martial skill/ability;
Kingship/leaderhood - willing to lead men/women to their deaths for the right cause, and to fight to the death for those that follow the person;
Strength of arm;
Strength of heart;
Martial/political pragmatism(?)


That last one is something I'm trying to work through...what it really means is the "willing to fight because it is the most likely solution", not just "fight, but only as a last resort".

I think there is a "willing to smash people in the face" component, not just a "willing to risk oneself" component that I don't know how to articulate. Something about embracing the spirit of combat.

- M

I've never really thought of Thor as a leader, personally. Not saying he's got no leadership skills, just that it's not a defining characteristic in MY mind. The rest of your stuff seems spot on!

In attempting to research the "rules" of the hammer, I did find a nice comparison- Captain America is a soldier. For him, fighting is a means of accomplishing the ends he believes in. Thor is a WARRIOR. Fighting is a part of who he is, period.

[Aotrs Commander]

Yoda could. As could Palpatine. Or Magneto.

When you open up fantasy, you don't have to touch something to lift it.

Actually, we have a proper non-speculative answer to that one, it's been asked and answered several times. (Just google it, I did and found numerous websites.) It's the enchantment that prevents it from being lifted, so it doesn't matter if you're using the Force or being master of magnetism, you can't lift it. However, if it is in flight, then a Force-user (or as Magneto has done) can deflect or repel it; they just can't hold it.

Exception: Ultimate Universe Magneto, though it apparently doesn't have the enchantment there. (And, really, Miles aside, the less said about the Ultimate universe the better...)

[Serenity]

Captain America is *definitely* canonically able to wield Mjolnir in the comics, incidentally.

Michael Carpenter from the Dresden Files--and by extension, Sanya, Shiro, and Butters.

I also like to think that Minsc from Baldur's Gate could manage it.

Also, totally Steven Quartz Universe. Posibly Connie too.

[Saintheart]

If we're talking about simplicity, purpose, and warrior status, then Corporal Detritus don'tsalute! of the Ankh-Morpork City Watch could likely wield the hammer.

Connor Macleod of the Clan Macleod.

I'd be surprised if Aragorn couldn't wield it, if not Gandalf.

[Ghen]

I second Tom Bombadil, not because he's "worthy" or meets any qualifier, but because he seems to be removed from the laws of the universe and the natural order in general.

That Justiciar alien chick from Mass Effect, whose name escapes me at the moment, could maybe do it.

Mumen Rider might also be worthy :) I like to think that he is.

Heironeous is probably a good candidate.

[Dilvish]

John Carter, Warlord of Mars

Possibly Buffy

Under Dog - the cartoon version, the movie version can't wield a hammer.

[Talanic]

Seconding Mumen Rider. When one hit from the Sea King trashed him, he got back up and back into the hopeless fight, just trying to buy time for someone with powers to show up. That's worth.

Same for Michael Carpenter and the other Knights of the Sword. My favorite scene with Michael remains when a vampire catches fire just for trying to tempt him. If I remember right it wasn't even a White Court vampire either.

[Kyberwulf]

I don't think Buffy could.

Why can't Batman do it?


I nominate He-Man and Lion-O

[Abakus]

Deptendant on the interpretation of "worthy" (whether training as a warrior is required), Samwise Gamgee.

[GloatingSwine]

Why can't Batman do it?


Because he won't kill people.

It's worth considering what Walt Simonson wrote about the first time someone else ever picked up Mjolnir:


One of the cool things about Thor was the enchantment around Mjolnir and the original inscription on it. So I thought, well that means someone else can pick up this hammer and get this power, if they're worthy! So since then, some other big characters, people's favorites, have picked up the hammer, Captain America, Superman, whoever. But at this point, no one had ever picked up the hammer. I liked the idea of Cap walking to the bathroom and seeing it, and grabbing and just tugging, not being able to. So this had to be someone new. This is the most powerful weapon of the Norse gods. This hammer is a killing weapon. It's used to kill Frost Giants and others. So, Superman couldn't pick it up, cause he's never going to kill anyone, and the hammer knows that. Captain America, he's too patriotic. He's too much a symbol of America to be chosen by this Norse artifact. So he couldn't get it. So I created Bill because he's noble, and he's designed to kill. He's got a great purpose as a warrior, and also the noble ability. That makes him "worthy" whatever that may be.

As far as appearance, back then, comics were these self-contained stories. So for Bill, I had to do this in short form. This was a four-issue story, and that was my longest on my entire run on Thor. We had to take him, make him into a character that the Hammer would recognize. So I wanted for Bill, I wanted him to have a "monstrous" look as a visual, so that everyone would think he's a bad guy, and I got letters after the first issue that said "What on earth? Why is this monster picking up the hammer, what's wrong with you?" and I said "I got it!" So I basically started with a skull, and then I made him a bit like a horse, with the gap behind the teeth. But horses are beautiful creatures. So what I was aiming for is a sense of death, a sense of monster, underlined by beauty. His costume was the same so that the minute you see that image, when he strikes the stick and becomes "Beta Ray Thor" or whatever, you know: OK, that guy has the powers of Thor. So that's why Bill had the monstrous face, that's why that stuff was done the way it was done.

[Aotrs Commander]

Because he won't kill people.

It's worth considering what Walt Simonson wrote about the first time someone else ever picked up Mjolnir:

Now that IS interesting.

So, we can strike Nanoha, He-Man and Lion-O and - unless I'm way out for later seasons that I have not seen, probably Steven Universe as well - from the list (okay, Nanoha might be a very outside maybe), Naruto is probably still on it (well, if you count filler villains - though I do), along with Pinkie Pie (possibly Celestia, depending on your interpretation of how she arrived at where she is in a thousand years of solo rule)... Actually, not having considerd that point, my of my suggestions are moot.

This is broguht up by a shot I saw saw of Supes wielding the hammer for a bit during a fight but not being able to pick it afterwards and Thor saying "sometimes it cuts people a break at moments of crisis" which is really rather awesome of it, actually.



I imagine it would rule out the Doctor, too, despite that fact he has killed, his aversion to it (and fighting in general) might well be enough to make him be unworthy (from his own perspective that one suspects the hammer might agree with).

[HandofShadows]

There have been a few cross-over comics over the years. Both Wonder Woman and Superman have wielded the hammer on more than one occasion. In fact, Superman dual-wielded it with Captain America's shield, too. :smalltongue:

Nope. After the battle was over Sups tried to pick up the hammer and give it to Thor and he couldn't budge it. Thor told him that the reason Sups could use it in the fight was because Thor had basically turned off the "worthy to pick up" attribute for a short time because it was an emergency. :smalltongue:

Darn nijia'd

[Aotrs Commander]

Nope. After the battle was over Sups tried to pick up the hammer and give it to Thor and he couldn't budge it. Thor told him that the reason Sups could use it in the fight was because Thor had basically turned off the "worthy to pick up" attribute for a short time because it was an emergency. :smalltongue:

Darn nijia'd

But it makes SO MUCH SENSE that Diana was able to freely wield it, with all that in mind, doesn't it?

[Lvl 2 Expert]

Splinter
Mr. Miyagi
Kermit
(Free) Willy

[Aotrs Commander]

Splinter
Mr. Miyagi
Kermit
(Free) Willy

But how many of those are prepared to fight to kill?

As we have just determined, that's actually a requirement and I... Don't see Kermit doing that, personally...

(Okay, the last one certainly would, assuming non-sapient creatures qualify and even knew how to do so.)

[Lvl 2 Expert]

As we have just determined, that's actually a requirement and I... Don't see Kermit doing that, personally...

If you've spent as much time around miss Piggy as he has, you'd be surprised what you're willing to do.

Although you might be half right, I don't think he quite has control of the hammer (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwAi8eEikkg) yet.

[Some Android]

Meatwad of Aqua Teen Hunger Force. Because it would be hilarious. If he can't can he at least have his own iron man suit that may just be a ball-like helmet he is crammed into.

[Callos_DeTerran]

But how many of those are prepared to fight to kill?

As we have just determined, that's actually a requirement and I... Don't see Kermit doing that, personally...

(Okay, the last one certainly would, assuming non-sapient creatures qualify and even knew how to do so.)

Splinter would likely still qualify, depending on which one you're looking at.

[Jeivar]

Oh, I forgot: Mazzy Fentan, from Baldur's Gate 2. She really is a shining example of how a paladin SHOULD be played.

[No brains]

Could Judge Dredd do it? In some interpretations, he may count as worthy. He's absolutely committed to his version of 'righteousness' and completely willing to kill, though not frivolously. In Dredd, we see him giving a warning to a homeless man and refraining from killing kids. I think that may put him on the very tippy top of the brutality mjolnir allows.

Alternately, depending on how 'worthiness' is judged, it's possible to cheat one's way in. If being worthy means, "Anyone Odin finds worthy", then it's possible to trick/ convince Odin into conferring worthiness.

[Some Android]

Could Judge Dredd do it? In some interpretations, he may count as worthy. He's absolutely committed to his version of 'righteousness' and completely willing to kill, though not frivolously. In Dredd, we see him giving a warning to a homeless man and refraining from killing kids. I think that may put him on the very tippy top of the brutality mjolnir allows.

Alternately, depending on how 'worthiness' is judged, it's possible to cheat one's way in. If being worthy means, "Anyone Odin finds worthy", then it's possible to trick/ convince Odin into conferring worthiness.

Only if Dredd can also hangout with Skurge to form a double Karl Urban duo!

[Wraith]

Didn't Gawain and his brothers violate guest rights and kill a guy that was hitting on their mom? That seems like a disqualifier. Did you mean Galahad?

Maybe? Who was the one who kept his word and knelt for the Green Knight?


I'm curious what people's opinions are on what "worthiness" means in this case? I did some research (googled for a couple minutes) and it seems the hammer's concept of worthiness is less strictly codified than I had guessed before starting my search.

As with so many things in movies/comics, the answer is that it varies depending on the source. Comic Mjonir, as has been pointed out, needs a warrior who is prepared to fight and kill, also has a sense of duty and justice. Movie Mjolnir, however, seems to be somewhat more arbitrary but has a certain amount of good-heartedness thrown in too.


Nope. After the battle was over Sups tried to pick up the hammer and give it to Thor and he couldn't budge it.

What do you mean "Nope"? We were asked for examples of people who have wielded Mjolnir, and you tried to prove me wrong by describing how Superman wielded Mjolnir. The criteria at the time was not "who would also gain all the powers of Thor" - besides, there's a certain argument that you could give Thor's power to some versions of Superman and he wouldn't even notice, after all. :smalltongue:


But it makes SO MUCH SENSE that Diana was able to freely wield it, with all that in mind, doesn't it?

It does, to be honest. Diana is from a warrior culture, as is Thor, and she's perfectly willing to kill if she thinks that it's necessary (Just ask Maxwell Lord or Deimos and Triton, the demi-gods). Superman, on the other hand, only does it when absolutely driven to it, and he usually regrets it thereafter.


Could Judge Dredd do it? In some interpretations, he may count as worthy. He's absolutely committed to his version of 'righteousness' and completely willing to kill, though not frivolously. In Dredd, we see him giving a warning to a homeless man and refraining from killing kids. I think that may put him on the very tippy top of the brutality mjolnir allows.

In the same movie, Anderson tries to read his mind and describes "something else" behind the iron-hard control and seething rage. As with a few other sources, it's implied that there is a terrifying darkness within Judge Dredd that he forcibly holds in check - depending on your interpretation of Mjolnir, he's in no way "pure of heart" or a "Good" (note the capital letter" guy.

[Prime32]

Nanoha probably couldn't wield it, but "Melee Nanoha" (Hibiki Tachibana from Symphogear) might be able to pull it off. And I'm not just saying that because she's wielded her setting's version of Gungnir.


Of all the Z-Fighters, I might suggest Gohan instead of Goku? The latter can be somewhat bull-headed and TOO eager to fight, but Gohan is tempered with humility without being as single-mindedFuture Trunks seems like a better fit than Gohan. He has a big heart, but he's more willing to kill than Gohan is. Plus all the "hope" imagery surrounding him, and stuff like this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmV_YNIoBIs). Then again, he might refuse to take it.


"Compared to gods, then of course we're weak. But you can never make me ashamed of that. Because when mortals do join forces, that's when we can do anything. Because believing in our fellow man and helping each other to survive, that's what redeems us! That's what makes us who we are! Makes us worthy! That's what gives us our real power!"

[McStabbington]

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/oots/images/7/70/O-Chul.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20110808070755

Was there really any other answer?

[tomandtish]

I'm curious what people's opinions are on what "worthiness" means in this case? I did some research (googled for a couple minutes) and it seems the hammer's concept of worthiness is less strictly codified than I had guessed before starting my search.


Yeah, that's kind of my issue with the question. The films at least have never made it particularly clear what qualities exactly constituted being "worthy" of wielding Mjolnir, and some admittedly-brief internet research isn't turning up anything specific from the comics either. Hard to answer the question if that part doesn't have any guidelines beyond "be like Thor somehow."




You would expect a fair propotion of Paladins should and almost certainly any Exalted (as in the book of exalted cheese Exalted) character.


Alternately, depending on how 'worthiness' is judged, it's possible to cheat one's way in. If being worthy means, "Anyone Odin finds worthy", then it's possible to trick/ convince Odin into conferring worthiness.

No Brains hits it on the head. What does ODIN find worthy? After all, in the MCU Hela has apparently wielded it. And that version of Captain America couldn't (although he did make it twitch).

[Some Android]

Rowsdower. Zap Rowsdower.

Rowsdower saves us and saves all the world!

Anyone who get this reference you have my respect.

[The Glyphstone]

No Brains hits it on the head. What does ODIN find worthy? After all, in the MCU Hela has apparently wielded it. And that version of Captain America couldn't (although he did make it twitch).

I'd argue that MCU Hela wasn't so much worthy as she was brute-force overpowering Odin's enchantment with her own magic - she didn't 'wield' Mjolnir, she stopped it cold then blew it to smithereens. So she probably doesn't deserve to be on the list.

Vision obviously does, and Cap as you noted is a near-contender but not worthy enough. I wonder if MCU Spider-Man could do it?

[Serenity]

I'd argue that MCU Hela wasn't so much worthy as she was brute-force overpowering Odin's enchantment with her own magic - she didn't 'wield' Mjolnir, she stopped it cold then blew it to smithereens. So she probably doesn't deserve to be on the list.

Vision obviously does, and Cap as you noted is a near-contender but not worthy enough. I wonder if MCU Spider-Man could do it?

She did used to wield in Asgard's conquest-happy past--but that was actually *before* Odin put the worthiness enchantment on it, which happened in the first movie.

[Kyberwulf]

Rowsdower Could, but doesn't need it. HE is the only man that can defeat Chuck Norris

[Cikomyr]

The God-Emperor of Mankind, and most of the loyalist Primarchs probably would be worthy

[Kish]

... whaaat? I'm halfway through reading Robert Howard's original Conan stories, and his Conan is an amoral beast. He's only a hero in the classical Greek sense, and in no way kind, self-sacrificing or idealistic.
I've seen versions of Conan which I'd call all six of the non-Lawful alignments, for my part.

[jwhouk]

I agree on Elan.

Any reality-warping cloud-cuckoolander.

Oskar Schindler.

Steven Universe.

Bobby Hill.


Hannelore Ellicott-Chatham?

[woweedd]

In addition to Superman, i'd bet Supergirl, Nightwing and Captain Marvel would be able to pick it up. ALso, has Spider-Man ever tried, because i'd belive it. Samurai Jack and Finn The HUman seem like plausible holders. Commander Shepard, Paragon version. Kenshiro.

[Aka-chan]

I would say Picard, Data, and Worf from ST:TNG. (I know Picard is generally a more cerebral character, but both the "Sins of the Father" episode and the backstory of his artificial heart establish that he can fight.)

I second Abakus's opinion about Sam Gamgee. He may not be trained as a warrior, but he sure put the hurt on Shelob when she tried to kill Frodo. And someone so noble that even the One Ring couldn't tempt him is surely worthy.

[Reddish Mage]

I'd be more interested in finding the commonality of all those deemed worthy, in-comic rather than create a list of people from any sort of fiction someone personally thinks are worthy.

We know from the cross-over comics that Superman and Wonder Woman, for instance, actually have held the hammer. In-comic evidence shows that certain beings can overwhelm Mjolnir's magic and use it that way. Captain America, and Spiderman 2099 have held it. Of course, so has Vision, and Beta-Ray Bill. Here's one list (https://www.cbr.com/wothiest-holders-thor-hammer/). Its apparent from the lists some individuals get on it by trickery (Loki used magic), or because the Ultimates universe hammer worked differently. I don't see it on the list, but I think Storm has held it.

None of the individuals who held it, with the possible exception of Jane Foster, have been non-warrior-types. Not all of the individuals are great leaders. Many of the people confirmed unworthy are pretty great people too. I don't think we have found a true saint that hasn't been worthy though.

So its either saints, or great righteous-warriors, or potentially great righteous-leaders. I'm not sure what Hydra Cap being worthy was about though. The idea that worthiness has nothing to do with morality seems contradicted by the number of villains that have been refused (some having their own greatness in leadership and fighting spirit).

So that said, for a completely unrelated comic book character that's worthy, how about Goku? He is a great warrior, apparently he is some sort of leader (at least people look to him that way, and finally, he his "pure of heart" having met his own in-universe test for righteousness by riding the kinto-un.

[Keltest]

I'd be more interested in finding the commonality of all those deemed worthy, in-comic rather than create a list of people from any sort of fiction someone personally thinks are worthy.

We know from the cross-over comics that Superman and Wonder Woman, for instance, actually have held the hammer. In-comic evidence shows that certain beings can overwhelm Mjolnir's magic and use it that way. Captain America, and Spiderman 2099 have held it. Of course, so has Vision, and Beta-Ray Bill. Here's one list (https://www.cbr.com/wothiest-holders-thor-hammer/). Its apparent from the lists some individuals get on it by trickery (Loki used magic), or because the Ultimates universe hammer worked differently. I don't see it on the list, but I think Storm has held it.

None of the individuals who held it, with the possible exception of Jane Foster, have been non-warrior-types. Not all of the individuals are great leaders. Many of the people confirmed unworthy are pretty great people too. I don't think we have found a true saint that hasn't been worthy though.

So its either saints, or great righteous-warriors, or potentially great righteous-leaders. I'm not sure what Hydra Cap being worthy was about though. The idea that worthiness has nothing to do with morality seems contradicted by the number of villains that have been refused (some having their own greatness in leadership and fighting spirit).

So that said, for a completely unrelated comic book character that's worthy, how about Goku? He is a great warrior, apparently he is some sort of leader (at least people look to him that way, and finally, he his "pure of heart" having met his own in-universe test for righteousness by riding the kinto-un.

Goku's lust for battle for its own sake might disqualify him. He doesn't fight for a cause, he fights because he likes fighting or because other people pick fights with him, or both.

[Reddish Mage]

Goku's lust for battle for its own sake might disqualify him. He doesn't fight for a cause, he fights because he likes fighting or because other people pick fights with him, or both.

That plays to righteousness. It could be that Marvel authors have a different idea of what constitutes righteous as Toriyama, or that the kinto-un measure of "pure of heart" means something vastly different from being righteous. However, taking things on their own terms Goku's heart has already been judged worthy.

[Malimar]

Worf
I'm going to very slightly disagree and say I'm not sure if TNG Worf could, but I'm pretty sure DS9 Worf could.

[Some Android]

Has Ned Flanders been mentioned? I feel like he has, but I'm too lazy to read back through every post on this thread.


Rowsdower Could, but doesn't need it. HE is the only man that can defeat Chuck Norris

You have won my respect!

[woweedd]

I'd be more interested in finding the commonality of all those deemed worthy, in-comic rather than create a list of people from any sort of fiction someone personally thinks are worthy.

We know from the cross-over comics that Superman and Wonder Woman, for instance, actually have held the hammer. In-comic evidence shows that certain beings can overwhelm Mjolnir's magic and use it that way. Captain America, and Spiderman 2099 have held it. Of course, so has Vision, and Beta-Ray Bill. Here's one list (https://www.cbr.com/wothiest-holders-thor-hammer/). Its apparent from the lists some individuals get on it by trickery (Loki used magic), or because the Ultimates universe hammer worked differently. I don't see it on the list, but I think Storm has held it.

None of the individuals who held it, with the possible exception of Jane Foster, have been non-warrior-types. Not all of the individuals are great leaders. Many of the people confirmed unworthy are pretty great people too. I don't think we have found a true saint that hasn't been worthy though.

So its either saints, or great righteous-warriors, or potentially great righteous-leaders. I'm not sure what Hydra Cap being worthy was about though. The idea that worthiness has nothing to do with morality seems contradicted by the number of villains that have been refused (some having their own greatness in leadership and fighting spirit).

So that said, for a completely unrelated comic book character that's worthy, how about Goku? He is a great warrior, apparently he is some sort of leader (at least people look to him that way, and finally, he his "pure of heart" having met his own in-universe test for righteousness by riding the kinto-un.
Depends: Which version of Goku are we talking about? Sometimes, he's a great dude with maybe some family issues whose obsessive love of training is justified by him NEEDING to be strong to protect others. Other times, he's an immature berserker who trains solely so he punch bigger things and is willing to put the universe in danger if it means he'll get a more satisfying fight. Even Toriyama can't seem to decide which he is. He does seem to get more selfless over time, and in the anime, no question, he's heroic enough, but in the manga? You could argue.

[RossN]

Buffy Summers possibly, though it might depend on which season or even episode. She's pretty consistently a heroic person but early in the show she's often immature while later on she's jaded and even self destructive.

Amusingly the official Buffy RPG gave Olaf's Hammer (http://buffy.wikia.com/wiki/Enchanted_Hammer_of_the_Troll_Gods) an Honour requirement to be able to wield it, probably to account for why Buffy could wield it with ease while Spike (weaker but not that much weaker) couldn't lift it at all.

[Reddish Mage]

Other times, he's an immature berserker who trains solely so he punch bigger things and is willing to put the universe in danger if it means he'll get a more satisfying fight. Even Toriyama can't seem to decide which he is. He does seem to get more selfless over time, and in the anime, no question, he's heroic enough, but in the manga? You could argue.

Eh, I’m not seeing two characterizations here. Goku’s desire to protect others is pretty limited to when they are suffering right in front of him. As soon as that’s out of the way he’s back to desiring the next big fight.

My argument is about taking Goku’s good-nature as a given because both manga and anime Goku is said to be such. If you can’t accept that, think the kinto-un thing doesn’t match what’s on the page, you just won’t agree.

[Keltest]

Eh, I’m not seeing two characterizations here. Goku’s desire to protect others is pretty limited to when they are suffering right in front of him. As soon as that’s out of the way he’s back to desiring the next big fight.

My argument is about taking Goku’s good-nature as a given because both manga and anime Goku is said to be such. If you can’t accept that, think the kinto-un thing doesn’t match what’s on the page, you just won’t agree.

I mean, I don't disagree that he's good natured, but righteous? He would risk the destruction of everything he holds dear for the sake of a better fight. Theres an inherent selfishness in him that I don't think lets him be described as righteous.

[Daimbert]

Since I'm playing a lot of them over the next few months, let's look at the modern Persona games.

Persona 3:

Mitsuru certainly could, even given the "noble warrior" requirement.

Akihiko's character arc is pretty much the same AS Thor's, so after he completes it he probably could.

If Vision can lift it, so can Aigis.

I'm not sure if the male MC could, because he doesn't have enough of a personality to really say (although being willing to sacrifice himself for everyone should count). The female MC is probably a better candidate since she has a personality that includes being very loyal to her friends.

Shinjiro MIGHT be able to do so at around the time he dies in-game.

Persona 4:

Yu Narukami should be able to wield it without any difficulties.

Naoto probably could.

Chie might be able to.

Kanji as well once he gets away from his tendency to bully others.

Persona 5:

Makoto absolutely could do it.

I'm not sure about Joker; it depends on how he's played, because he can be a total jerk if you let him.

Even if Futaba was worthy, she couldn't lift something that naturally heavy [grin].

The others seem too shallow or self-interested to be worthy.

[Anteros]

Because he won't kill people.

It's worth considering what Walt Simonson wrote about the first time someone else ever picked up Mjolnir:

I'm not sure how much his opinion is worth considering that two people he used as examples of who couldn't lift the hammer have actually done so.

[HolyDraconus]

Pretty sure if Magneto could do it, Lex Luthor and Rick Sanchez would make it look like child's play.

[Xihirli]

Are we talking MCU where Hela not only destroyed the hammer, but was shown in old tapestries as wielding it as a weapon?
She's either worthy or powerful enough to ignore the worthy thing and if you can be powerful enough to override that I'm gonna say Darkseid.

[Serenity]

Are we talking MCU where Hela not only destroyed the hammer, but was shown in old tapestries as wielding it as a weapon?
She's either worthy or powerful enough to ignore the worthy thing and if you can be powerful enough to override that I'm gonna say Darkseid.

In the MCU, the Worthiness enchantment did not exist before the first Thor movie, where Odin adds it when he banishes Thor to Earth, so that Thor reclaiming Mjolnir will prove he's learned the lesson Odin was trying to to impart. So when Hella wielded it, it was just a powerful weapon, not a judge of character.

[No brains]

Rowsdower references and somebody saying I did something right! This thread is a treat!

I wonder- with Odin dead, would the enchantment even work anymore? The hammer breaks almost immediately after he dies, so we will never know for sure.

[Wardog]

Kamina?

(Probably several other members of the Dai Gurren Brigade as well. And former enemies that joined them).

[Bartmanhomer]

Superman can definitely lift Thor hammer easily. :biggrin:

[dps]

I don't think I can even codify my opinion on the "worthy" clause...but I think it has to contain:

Bravery, but not foolhardiness;
Martial skill/ability;
Kingship/leaderhood - willing to lead men/women to their deaths for the right cause, and to fight to the death for those that follow the person;
Strength of arm;
Strength of heart;
Martial/political pragmatism(?)



Sounds like George Washington to me.

Not sure I entirely agree with the list. In particular, I'm not sure I'd include Kingship/leadership.

I think, if you wanted to include anyone from Buffy, Xander might actually be a better choice than Buffy herself. Heck, Riley or Oz might be better bets.

I agree that the Doctor probably couldn't. Among NuWho companions, the best bets would be Roy or Wilf. From ClassicWho, Ian and Leela would qualify, and probably Jamie; some of the others might otherwise make the cut but might fail on the willingness to kill requirement.

[Telonius]

Hannelore Ellicott-Chatham?

I'd think that Bubbles would probably be the best candidate from the QC universe. (Since Pizza Girl has gone MIA, anyway).



From Trigun ... possibly Vash, though the whole "wouldn't use it" think might be a count against him. Possibly Wolfwood?

[Giggling Ghast]

I think there's a very solid argument to be made for Captain Marvel (or Shazam, if you prefer) being able to wield Mjolnir.

Also, Link. Yes, that Link. He's already worthy of the Master Sword, so why not Mjolnir?


Conan the Barbarian has done so too; although it was a guest appearance in a Marvel comic, he's still originally a non-Marvel character.

Speaking as a Conan fan, how the hell did that happen? Conan has spent his life as a thief, a pirate and a mercenary.

EDIT: Oh, I get it. He just carried it after Thor's (non-canon) death.

[Wraith]

Sounds like George Washington to me.

Winston Churchill is probably in with a chance, by the same criteria.


Speaking as a Conan fan, how the hell did that happen? Conan has spent his life as a thief, a pirate and a mercenary.

While it's quite apparent in his own Dark Horse comics, the Marvel Universe tend to gloss over that stuff. In those, he's more like the version from the Conan cartoon rather than books or film - a rowdy warrior with a harsh demeanour but a heart of gold, the ideal noble savage. In many ways, kind of like Thor himself - loud and sometimes a bit obnoxious, he'll start and adventure looking to get rich or enjoy a brawl but always ends up fighting genuine evil and saving innocents.

It's also in their What If...? series, in which the whole point is to take a character out of context or otherwise twist their character to something a bit atypical, so.... *shrugs*

[theMycon]

For certain values of "lift"; Professor Farnsworth and his clone Cuebert/ Neither would have any trouble moving it wherever they wanted it to go. Just slap a Farnsworth Drive (https://morbotron.com/caption/S02E14/1220714) on it, and the rest of the universe listens, even if the hammer doesn't.

[Leewei]

The Tick.

Probably while saying something along the lines of "Justice is like an ancient, rune-inscribed mallet, Arthur - hard to describe well, but easy to grasp. And when evil-doers come to bring civilization down, you have to lift that Justice Hammer, chum. Lift with All. Your. Might."

[Knaight]

I'd back the current suggestions of O-Chul and Gawain, though the latter is very much a matter of specific implementation. Gawain prior to the introduction of Lancelot to the Arthurian mythos tends to fit a whole lot better. I'd also back Link, if more from the character portrayal as one who just gets to use every weapon, regardless of whether or not that actually makes any sense than anything else.

Beyond these I'd like to submit one Etjole Ehomba. He's willing to fight if he needs to, he's willing to take up the call of duty, he has some leadership qualities (mostly applied to the rest of the small group that falls in with him), and he has a definite pragmatism. The character fits perfectly.

[Scarlet Knight]

Why do I have the image of Reepicheep bashing Telmarines around with Mjolnir?

[JMS]

Any 3.5 D&D wizard, with access to disjuction, and persistence, + a high will save. (Not that there would be any benefit, but... still)

[Tvtyrant]

Deadpool movies' Colossus. He always steps up, is a great warrior and is upstanding moral character.

[Bartmanhomer]

Deadpool movies' Colossus. He always steps up, is a great warrior and is upstanding moral character.

You do realize that Colossus is a Marvel character, right?

[Tvtyrant]

You do realize that Colossus is a Marvel character, right?

Movie Colossus isn't. He is a foxy character :p

Barristan Selmy probably could. That would turn the setting on its head.

[Bartmanhomer]

Movie Colossus isn't. He is a foxy character :p

Barristan Selmy probably could. That would turn the setting on its head.

Wait a minute, I'm really confused here. How did Fox owns the rights of Colossus and Deadpool and Marvel still makes comic books about them? :confused:

[Knaight]

Wait a minute, I'm really confused here. How did Fox owns the rights of Colossus and Deadpool and Marvel still makes comic books about them? :confused:

Because the rights have been partitioned to be media-specific - Fox has movie rights, but they don't have comic book rights, and if they published a comic book there would be an IP violation (which may or may not amount to much, Marvel is one of those companies that really doesn't want to get in IP fights if they don't have to, though the fight not being with DC makes it a lot prettier).

[Gurston]

Quite a few candidates from the superpowereds books - Vince, Zero, Titan

[Aedilred]

Tempted to say Diomedes. He is not the most familiar of the Trojan War heroes, but that is largely due to cast compression in modern adaptations. Of all the Achaean heroes of that era (and possibly overall) he is perhaps the most conventionally heroic: he has a boisterous and reckless side and is ridiculously brave, but is also honourable in a way that Achilles and Odysseus (and, for that matter, Heracles, Jason and Theseus) are not. Although some of the stories do have him colluding in the murder of Palamedes, the hubris and sexualised violence that characterises many of his contemporaries is absent.

On the Trojan side, Hector and Memnon make cases, too.

From an earlier generation, I'd say Meleager and Atalanta would probably make the club.

[Samba Mentality]

Umm... Dumbledore?! He seems worthy in every sense of the word. He came to terms with his mistakes. He was a great role model for all of the young characters, and finally, he wasn’t afraid of death.

Also... Frodo? His epic journey kind of made him seem pretty worthy to me.

I’d also second Bombadil, as well as BATMAN.

Samwise... maybe?

Dumbledore also sacrificed his life to prevent the endless bloodshed over the Elder Wand. And Frodo *almost* cast the ring into the great fire on his own will. WORTHY!

[Wardog]

I’d also second Bombadil,

Yes, but he'd probably forget which toolbox he put it in.

[Keltest]

Because the rights have been partitioned to be media-specific - Fox has movie rights, but they don't have comic book rights, and if they published a comic book there would be an IP violation (which may or may not amount to much, Marvel is one of those companies that really doesn't want to get in IP fights if they don't have to, though the fight not being with DC makes it a lot prettier).

Bonus points for Disney, which owns Marvel Studios, being in the process of buying the parts of Fox that own the marvel rights. I believe this would consolidate all the movie rights except for Spider-man and Fantastic Four under Marvel Studios.

[Aedilred]

The thing about IP disputes at that sort of level is that they have a tendency to come down to which side has the will and the money to fight longest. Marvel itself may be on shaky ground when it comes to originality but Disney has a reputation for ruthless IP litigation and has the funds to match. When the cease and desist letters start coming in, even for a large company it's probably just not worth the fight.

Of course, sometimes you do get victories for the little guy. Games Workshop - admittedly a different order of magnitude to Disney in terms of resources, but probably comparable to Marvel in terms of its rapacity for incorporating other influences into its own purported IP - had a reputation as unnecessarily aggressive litigators, but were made to look thoroughly silly during the Spots the Space Marine affair by a self-published ebook author because she had the nerve to stand up to them. But she didn't pick that fight and the claim had holes that even a layman could drive a bus through.

[Knaight]

The thing about IP disputes at that sort of level is that they have a tendency to come down to which side has the will and the money to fight longest. Marvel itself may be on shaky ground when it comes to originality but Disney has a reputation for ruthless IP litigation and has the funds to match. When the cease and desist letters start coming in, even for a large company it's probably just not worth the fight.

Which gets back to my point about the benefit of it not being DC as the target of the lawsuit. It's absolutely worth it for DC to protect their comics, and that's a massive ugly IP war waiting to happen - it's basically contract MAD. Fox? Not so much, especially with Disney being the source of pressure.

[Lord Torath]

What about MCU Thanos? He was completely dedicated to Saving the Universe in as fair a manner as possible. He didn't seek the infinity stones for personal glory, but for a purpose he felt was more important than himself. At least as far as I understand him from watching Avengers: Infinity Wars.

[Jeivar]

What about MCU Thanos? He was completely dedicated to Saving the Universe in as fair a manner as possible. He didn't seek the infinity stones for personal glory, but for a purpose he felt was more important than himself. At least as far as I understand him from watching Avengers: Infinity Wars.

He also has a well-established taste for torture.

[Lord Torath]

He also has a well-established taste for torture.True. He was happy to torture others to get the Infinity stones. In fact, that's how he got just about all of them, by torturing someone close to someone who had an Infinity stone (or knew where one was). I withdraw my suggestion.

[Mordar]

Sounds like George Washington to me.

Not sure I entirely agree with the list. In particular, I'm not sure I'd include Kingship/leadership.

I think, if you wanted to include anyone from Buffy, Xander might actually be a better choice than Buffy herself. Heck, Riley or Oz might be better bets.

I think the leadership element - at least in battle - seems to be significant. Now certainly as reflected by the Thor movie, but I think in the comics it may have linked more towards the Norse/viking idea (as presented in myth/legend) of worthy men leading other men...honors for the jarl and all of that kind of thing.


Winston Churchill is probably in with a chance, by the same criteria.

Was he every a soldier/warrior? Strength of arms and all that? Washington certainly. I simply don't know as much about Churchill pre-1940s.

- M

[Wraith]

Was he every a soldier/warrior? Strength of arms and all that? Washington certainly. I simply don't know as much about Churchill pre-1940s.

- M

He was a Hussar (Queen's household Cavalry) for the better part of 25 years, travelling from Britain, to India, to Cuba, to South Africa and back again. While in there, he openly criticised famous British generals for their crude and brutal tactics against defeated foes - executing prisoners, desecrating sacred sites and the likes - and once even donated a skin graft to another wounded soldier.

While he had some very offensive views (he loathed the Irish, and was on record as supporting using gas weapons on native Africans), there's little debate that he was usually valorous and successful as a soldier. The sort of things he got up to after he retired from the army and took up politics - including scaling the Alps, leading exploratory expeditions up the Nile and quite often getting legendarily drunk all across Europe and Northern Africa - only serve to make him a Thor-like figure even before he went on to lead Britain through World War 2.

Find his biography, if you can - Churchill was an unbelievable character, but apparently it's all true. :smalltongue: