Poncholo, no!

[Luna_Mayflower]

Why do my favourite characters keep having to die? First Malack (aka Jake) and now Poncholo (aka Samantha Turing)! But the main question I wanted to ask was this: what will happen to the dead vampires? Spawn and all? Do you think Poncholo had a coffin? If not, then they're all dead (sans the un- part). Will they be resurrected or, like Malack, are they gone forever from the comic?

P.S. Did we ever get to see Poncholo alive?

[Zyzzyva]

I know, right? Like, objectively, the dwarves (and everyone around them) are probably safer for her being dead ("bring a poncho", indeed). But the thought of her and ex-Priestess-of-the-Stone teaming up to go on a rampage was weirdly heartwarming.

(Also: did Belkar garotte her with a dagger? :smalleek:)

[DaOldeWolf]

Well, I hope the person inside Ponchola can explain herself in the afterlife since she she seemed so thrilled about falling into a life of death and destruction. :smallamused:

Also, she totally deserved it. Between the killing of the dwarves and her future plans and even using the baby as a shield, it is nice to see karma came her way. Its not so funny for her now that the person she was controlling finished her off.

[Kish]

Why do my favourite characters keep having to die?
Possibly because all your favorite characters are third- or fourth-stringer villains.

I'd find it more than slightly grotesque if someone demanded Cindy justify herself in the afterlife. "I see here that you lived as a good person and died fighting bravely against a vampire. But then you didn't snarl enough at the dark spirit controlling your body. Explain yourself before I send you to the Nine Hells."

[Mike Havran]

Depends what can be used as a coffin; Ponchula must return to it in two hours. She won´t make it to the summit and I doubt they had time to make some in Firmanent. So while there is still "hope", it seems pretty unlikely that she "survives".

[denthor]

No more evil stuff afterwards :furious:

[Luna_Mayflower]

I know, right? Like, objectively, the dwarves (and everyone around them) are probably safer for her being dead ("bring a poncho", indeed). But the thought of her and ex-Priestess-of-the-Stone teaming up to go on a rampage was weirdly heartwarming.

(Also: did Belkar garotte her with a dagger? :smalleek:)

I know right! I would've loved to have seen inside her head. Not only would it show the differences between an unwilling host (ie Durkon) and a willing one (Miss Turing), but it would've been so cute in an evil sort of way.


Possibly because all your favorite characters are third- or fourth-stringer villains.

Unacceptable! You know me better than that! Firstly, Tarquen thought Xykon was a cut-rate villain, so perspective is important. In my prophetic dreams, I've canoodled with both, therefore they aren't fourth-stringer to me! Even if Rich doesn't like them, he doesn't have to keep killing them! Ponchy could've escaped after the Order bully her into promising she won't feed from the unwilling.

[DaOldeWolf]

Possibly because all your favorite characters are third- or fourth-stringer villains.

I'd find it more than slightly grotesque if someone demanded Cindy justify herself in the afterlife. "I see here that you lived as a good person and died fighting bravely against a vampire. But then you didn't snarl enough at the dark spirit controlling your body. Explain yourself before I send you to the Nine Hells."

In the good afterlife, they chastised Roy for less than that. I dont think getting enjoyment out innocent people´s deaths while trying to destroy the world is going to look good on her resumé. Giving a vampire, evil ideas to perform wont look good either.

Now, I am not saying to send her to Hell just because of that, since we all make mistakes but she should be reminded of her part in the whole fiasco. Maybe knock her down a peg or two. Why? Because like her, we all are responsable for all of our actions, not just the good ones.

[Kish]

In the good afterlife, they chastised Roy for less than that.

I gather that that is a perspective it is possible to hold. I don't expect to ever understand it, however.

[hroþila]

Well, I hope the person inside Ponchola can explain herself in the afterlife since she she seemed so thrilled about falling into a life of death and destruction. :smallamused:
On the other hand, she did manage to fight back her Evil tendencies her whole life. "What is better? To be born good or to overcome your evil nature through great effort?" :smalltongue:

[Cazero]

I gather that that is a perspective it is possible to hold. I don't expect to ever understand it, however.
It's pretty simple. If the only things stopping you from commiting a buttload of atrocities are the lack of personnal power and your own cowardice, then you're a bad person. Doesn't matter you never did anything wrong; you would have by now if you were confident you could get away with it, so you're a bad person.

[hroþila]

It's pretty simple. If the only things stopping you from commiting a buttload of atrocities are the lack of personnal power and your own cowardice, then you're a bad person. Doesn't matter you never did anything wrong; you would have by now if you were confident you could get away with it, so you're a bad person.
I get what you're saying (she might have been a glad participant in a banality of Evil scenario). But: she was plenty powerful herself. That's not what was holding her back.

[Kish]

As hroþila said. That may be simple, but it's also completely irrelevant to the situation in question. The closest thing there is to a reason to think she didn't live and die a saint is what her vampire said...about what she spent time wanting to do, but not actually doing. Everything Roy was charged with was something he actually did.

[brian 333]

She's not a dwarf, so the manner if her death is less rekevant and she begins her afterlife based on her alignment and/or deity. Since she was a Creed of Stoner, I would assume some Lawful Neutral afterlife is in store. I can only imagine the amount of paperwork she faces trying to deal with all the red tape. By the time she gets the last bureaucratic stamp on her file she'll be a freakin' modrone... oh.

Alas poor Ponchula. I knew her, Horatio...

[Peelee]

In the good afterlife, they chastised Roy for less than that.

In a good afterlife. There are 17 afterlives, and only 9 alignments. Which means that there is at least one alignment which has more than one afterlife associated with it, and the only reason for that would be if they functioned differently (like different epectations for their applicants, as a possible example).

In any event, even Celestia told Roy that trying matters, and we have no reason to believe she didn't try.

[RatElemental]

She could also try to spin her (assumedly) gleeful involvement in the death of a bunch of dwarves as her trying to get her host to spare as many from Hel's clutches as possible before the world ended.

[DaOldeWolf]

As hroþila said. That may be simple, but it's also completely irrelevant to the situation in question. The closest thing there is to a reason to think she didn't live and die a saint is what her vampire said...about what she spent time wanting to do, but not actually doing. Everything Roy was charged with was something he actually did.

I imagine a good example of what to do would be Durkon, he resisted when it didnt do good to help the vampire. He assisted the vampire when it would prevent more destruction.

Meanwhile, she might be tied like Durkon but she didnt offer any resistance according to Ponchula. She even suggested some evil actions to take after the fact. She wasnt forced to make suggestions to the vampire but she did. Even if she cant affect the world outside, she decided to impact the world inside in a negative way in what little freedom she had. This isnt a case of just a though she had. She took action, in this case speaking up to convince someone else to do some evil stuff.

She is like a person convincing another to pull the trigger of a gun. Just because you convinced someone to pull the trigger instead of yourself doesnt mean that you dont hold a share of reponsability.

[Yendor]

I don't see any reason to take Cindy's claims about her host at face value, any more than Greg's belief that what Durkon wants, deep down, is revenge on the dwarves.

[Cudbie Enniwun]

Why does everyone seem to think she's dead? Per SRD, vampires when reduced to 0 HP turn to mist and try to escape. Note the mist around Belkar in the following panel.

[Peelee]

Why does everyone seem to think she's dead? Per SRD, vampires when reduced to 0 HP turn to mist and try to escape. Note the mist around Belkar in the following panel.

They can escape to their coffins, or they are destroyed. Vampires are made by resting in their coffin for three days after death, then rising.

She was made by the staff. No coffin. No escape.

[brian 333]

Why does everyone seem to think she's dead? Per SRD, vampires when reduced to 0 HP turn to mist and try to escape. Note the mist around Belkar in the following panel.

If she had a coffin, all she could do right now is return to it to begin regenerating. She presumably has no coffin to which she can return. If this is true she has two hours as a cloud before she's dust.

[hamishspence]

I thought Belkar had managed to partially stake her between panels - with the beheading thing taking place immediately after the stake had finally gone in all the way.

However, it's possible that he dropped the stake between panels - and the beheading is simply "doing enough damage to reduce her to 0 hit points".

Normally a vampire that is reduced to 0 hit points attempts to escape to a coffin.

But if she never had one made between Durkula's Turning her, and now, even being reduced to mist might kill her - hence Xs in eyes before transforming.

[Kish]

I imagine a good example of what to do would be Durkon, he resisted when it didnt do good to help the vampire. He assisted the vampire when it would prevent more destruction.

Meanwhile, she might be tied like Durkon but she didnt offer any resistance according to Ponchula. She even suggested some evil actions to take after the fact. She wasnt forced to make suggestions to the vampire but she did. Even if she cant affect the world outside, she decided to impact the world inside in a negative way in what little freedom she had. This isnt a case of just a though she had. She took action, in this case speaking up to convince someone else to do some evil stuff.

She is like a person convincing another to pull the trigger of a gun. Just because you convinced someone to pull the trigger instead of yourself doesnt mean that you dont hold a share of reponsability.
Yes, I get that you don't see the grotesquerie of "I see here that you lived as a good person and died fighting bravely against a vampire. But then you didn't snarl enough at the dark spirit controlling your body. Explain yourself before I send you to the Nine Hells," that you believe--as you said in your first post in this thread--that she has to atone for (being quoted by her vampire as) not having the right attitude about being a vampire. I am not trying to convince you of anything, and never have been, and your efforts to convince me are entirely pointless.

[martianmister]

Why do my favourite characters keep having to die? First Malack (aka Jake) and now Poncholo (aka Samantha Turing)!?

You're cursed and you ruin everything you love! :smallfurious:

[DaOldeWolf]

Yes, I get that you don't see the grotesquerie of "I see here that you lived as a good person and died fighting bravely against a vampire. But then you didn't snarl enough at the dark spirit controlling your body. Explain yourself before I send you to the Nine Hells," that you believe--as you said in your first post in this thread--that she has to atone for (being quoted by her vampire as) not having the right attitude about being a vampire. I am not trying to convince you of anything, and never have been, and your efforts to convince me are entirely pointless.

:smallconfused:

I think you got me confused. I am not going to change anyone´s opinion and that has never been my purpose.. :smallsmile: I am sharing my mind and explaining my stand. Mostly just me imagining a fun comic (a few punchlines here and there) with the judge being and her interacting while giving judgment. I imagine it will be brought at some point the situation as a vampire´s hostage soul. :smallbiggrin:

Based on what we know of the comic, I can figure she will receive proper judgment. Her good and bad actions will be discussed with the appropiate being and she will be sent to a place her soul fits best. And, since it is Rich´s story, he is the only one that knows where she ends up going.

I dont think there is a need to atone. :smallconfused: I said she will need to explain her actions while inside the vampire to the upper planes guy since those actions arent good. She needs to admit her responsability in her actions and hopefully grow from them. Maybe admit that she was wrong when she did that. What happens after that? I am not the one to decide. Since we dont have more info on how cases like that one are dealt, it would fall on baseless speculation. I dont speculate on stuff we dont have floor to stand on.

Finally, I want to reiterate that I dont think she will go to hell. I said so in my second post in this thread so I dont understand why you think I think that. :smallconfused:

I hope my position is finally clear to you. :smallsmile:

[Tarthalion]

To her boss with her. It's Minrah I grieve for.

[Sylian]

Speaking of Cindy, given the amount of level 6 spells she was seen casting and the lack of level 7 spells (unless I'm mistaken), it seems fairly likely that she's a level 12 Cleric, correct? I assume the "Har-" in strip 1130 was supposed to be a "Harm".

[Mike Havran]

It's pretty simple. If the only things stopping you from commiting a buttload of atrocities are the lack of personnal power and your own cowardice, then you're a bad person. Doesn't matter you never did anything wrong; you would have by now if you were confident you could get away with it, so you're a bad person.
Thoughtcrime, is it now?

[Rrmcklin]

I don't see any reason to take Cindy's claims about her host at face value, any more than Greg's belief that what Durkon wants, deep down, is revenge on the dwarves.

We have no reason not to take her word at face value because we're never given an inside look into their head. And she has absolutely no reason to lie about her host being all up for the evil.

But anyway, the evil secondary vampire character bit it because she was an evil secondary vampire. She had minimal importance as it is, and the world is better off without her. I can understand being a bit bummed that a somewhat amusing character is gone, but nothing huge was ever going to come from her in the first place.

And as for her host, I doubt she's going to be judged for any of the vampire stuff. We the ones judging her even know her inner feelings on the matter? And even then, would it matter if she didn't actually do any of the evil things she apparently thought of?

[Kish]

I think she's entirely sincere about her understanding of her host's thoughts. I just don't see any reason to think she's any less fundamentally deluded about her than Greg was about Durkon.

(This is unrelated to my previous posts in this thread, which I am not recanting in the least.)

[Rrmcklin]

I mean, if her host was actively giving her ideas about what to do after all of this was over (which was my impression, though I guess other interpretations are possible), I think it's safe to say she had better insight than Durkula did.

[DaOldeWolf]

Lets hope for a bonus comic to clear the subject when the book comes out. :smalltongue:

[ti'esar]

Personally, just from looking at this thread I can only feel relief that another of these frigging vampires with no official name and like seven different random fan monikers is gone. :smallamused:

[Ron Miel]

To her boss with her. It's Minrah I grieve for.

Why? She's in Valhalla drinking with Thor.

[Kish]

Personally, just from looking at this thread I can only feel relief that another of these frigging vampires with no official name and like seven different random fan monikers is gone. :smallamused:
Hey, leave Frigg out of this.

[Rrmcklin]

Why? She's in Valhalla drinking with Thor.

She still didn't go into this battle hoping to die.

[KorvinStarmast]

I assume the "Har-" in strip 1130 was supposed to be a "Harm". That's my guess, and the fizzle was from the knife cutting off her head. I think.

[DaOldeWolf]

Personally, just from looking at this thread I can only feel relief that another of these frigging vampires with no official name and like seven different random fan monikers is gone. :smallamused:

I have my desire to learn more about the vampire just because of the lore. I still keep my belief she got what she deserved though.


She still didn't go into this battle hoping to die.

Maybe, but I am glad that someone is reserving a seat for her in Valhalla.

[Peelee]

I have my desire to learn more about the vampire just because of the lore. I still keep my belief she got what she deserved though.

I believe that as well, and yet have a completely different expectation.

[TRH]

Maybe, but I am glad that someone is reserving a seat for her in Valhalla.

I dunno. I think she shot herself in the foot by insisting that the seat was for later.

[DaOldeWolf]

I believe that as well, and yet have a completely different expectation.

Speaking only on the vampire. I have no idea about the person living inside said vampire.


I dunno. I think she shot herself in the foot by insisting that the seat was for later.

She seemed to have a good relationship with Brother Sandstone and she technically left later than him, just not as late as she probably expected.

[Peelee]

Speaking only on the vampire. I have no idea about the person living inside said vampire.

Oh, my bad! IIRC, though, vampires get destroyed and don't have an afterlife.

[137beth]

Okay, so Poncholo comes back to undeath. Jake also comes back to (un)life, but instead of his old lizard body he possesses Belkar's dagger. Now Poncholo and Jake/Belkar's Dagger have to fight Zyklon and Ravenwing, except that Zyklon isn't allowed to directly target Jake/Belkar's Dagger with a spell because he is being possessed by one of Luna's Visions.

Who wins?

[Peelee]

Okay, so Poncholo comes back to undeath. Jake also comes back to (un)life, but instead of his old lizard body he possesses Belkar's dagger. Now Poncholo and Jake/Belkar's Dagger have to fight Zyklon and Ravenwing, except that Zyklon isn't allowed to directly target Jake/Belkar's Dagger with a spell because he is being possessed by one of Luna's Visions.

Who wins?

Certainly not the readers.:smallwink:

[Emanick]

Okay, so Poncholo comes back to undeath. Jake also comes back to (un)life, but instead of his old lizard body he possesses Belkar's dagger. Now Poncholo and Jake/Belkar's Dagger have to fight Zyklon and Ravenwing, except that Zyklon isn't allowed to directly target Jake/Belkar's Dagger with a spell because he is being possessed by one of Luna's Visions.

Who wins?

It’s probably a stalemate. Zyklon kills Poncholo, Ravenwing gets killed by Poncholo or Jake, then Zyklon escapes.

[Goblin_Priest]

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

[martianmister]

Ravenwing kills them all.

[Luna_Mayflower]

Okay, so Poncholo comes back to undeath. Jake also comes back to (un)life, but instead of his old lizard body he possesses Belkar's dagger. Now Poncholo and Jake/Belkar's Dagger have to fight Zyklon and Ravenwing, except that Zyklon isn't allowed to directly target Jake/Belkar's Dagger with a spell because he is being possessed by one of Luna's Visions.

Who wins?

I have returned to elucidate this query. I'm glad to see you, Ben my child, following in my prophetic footsteps and organising grand melees. I smile upon you. Anyhow, this is how my third eye sees the fight going.

V cries for a while and asks Ravenwing to return as she has to cry some more.
Zyklon transmorphs into Xykon from the Order of the Stick webcomic. Copyright 2003 Richard Berlap.
Poncholo gets down on one knee and tells that lady (me), will you marry me?
I say yes!
So we're left with Dagger Jake and Xykon.
Xykon hits the dagger with a maximised meteor swarm.
The dagger breaks and Jake is free.
Jake, Poncholo and I live in a thruple.
We travel to a land where polygamy is legal (IDK, empire of sands).
We all get married and live happily ever after.
Xykon wears a southern outfit to the wedding.
Xykon attacks.
Xykon is slain by the combined power of our love beams.
The end. x

[Mike Havran]

They can escape to their coffins, or they are destroyed. Vampires are made by resting in their coffin for three days after death, then rising.

She was made by the staff. No coffin. No escape.Malack was planning to make a sacrophagus (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0879.html) for Durkula, so it should be possible for staff-made vampires to have it. But I don't think they had opportunity to acquire coffins.

[Luna_Mayflower]

Thoughtcrime, is it now?

I like thoughtcrime. It makes things so much easier.