(Ab)using the Charmed condition

[Segev]

The Charmed condition is a little odd in 5e. It makes the victim unable to attack the Charmer, and gives the Charmer Advantage on Charisma checks against the victim. Notably, on its own, it does nothing to make the Charmed victim like the Charmer any better than before. Charm person adds the fact that the creature now views the Charmer as a friend; dominate person/monster/etc. add that the Charmed victim now can be compelled in its behavior, regardless of its will, geas just specifies that the creature can be assigned a task AND a penalty for directly acting against it (and I'd rather not turn this thread into a debate over what, exactly, geas can and cannot compel and whether it's really compelling anything).

Then there's the Warlock's Great Old One level 14 ability: Thrall. This permanently Charms the victim, and gives the Warlock permanent, range-independent telepathic contact with the "thrall." But, notably, it neither compels obedience nor creates any positive impression. The Warlock only gains benefit of the victim being unable to attack him, and the Advantage on all Charisma checks.

Certainly, he can intimidate the heck out of this victim. But winning the loyal service of it seems...well, an exercise in brainwashing, really. Permanent Advantage on Charisma checks + Telepathy the victim can't escape and no freedom to attack the Warlock does mean that the Warlock can just keep assailing him with persuasion efforts, deceptions, etc. until something sticks. Suitably sinister, but questionably effective in 5e's mechanics.

Now, assuming this CAN work, can similar be done with higher-level domination effects? These, too, give telepathic contact with the victims, and can last for days.

Leaving aside whether the task imposed by geas is actually enforceable, can the long-term Advantage on Charisma checks be similarly used to the caster's benefit in terms of winning over the geased individual?

What can and cannot be done with the Charmed condition on its own, and in conjunction with various spells and effects that inflict it?

[sophontteks]

Looking at charm person, it looks very weak (and indeed it is.) But there is a little catch people aren't picking up on....

"The charmed creature views you as a friendly aquantance."

If you offend that NPC somehow. It doesn't break the spell. They would then still view you as a friendly aquantance. So you could, say, take something of theirs, or do something they would otherwise never allow, and as long as its not harming them, they will not only allow it, they wouldn't react in any negative fashion what-so-ever as long as its active.

[PhoenixPhyre]

Looking at charm person, it looks very weak (and indeed it is.) But there is a little catch people aren't picking up on....

"The charmed creature views you as a friendly aquantance."

If you offend that NPC somehow. It doesn't break the spell. They would then still view you as a friendly aquantance. So you could, say, take something of theirs, or do something they would otherwise never allow, and as long as its not harming them, they will not only allow it, they wouldn't react in any negative fashion what-so-ever as long as its active.

I'm not sure. If a friendly acquaintance took something of mine without asking or harmed me, I'd certainly react negatively. Not as much as if a stranger did so, but certainly I'd say something like "hey man, the heck you did that for. Give it back!" If magically compelled to still be friendly to them, I'd be annoyed (like people are with real friends) but rationalize some way of still being friends. Doesn't mean I'd trust them with my stuff--I've got friendly acquaintances I don't trust with my valuable stuff in real life.

I'd be willing (depending on the item) to give them stuff if they asked, but certainly not if they just start taking stuff. Note that the DMG has a table--on a 20+ social check, a friend will do something involving a significant risk or loss. The only guaranteed thing is that they'll do something without taking risks or making sacrifices.

Now a vampire's charm says that they consider the vampire to be their best friend. That's stronger.

[sophontteks]

I'm not sure. If a friendly acquaintance took something of mine without asking or harmed me, I'd certainly react negatively. Not as much as if a stranger did so, but certainly I'd say something like "hey man, the heck you did that for. Give it back!" If magically compelled to still be friendly to them, I'd be annoyed (like people are with real friends) but rationalize some way of still being friends. Doesn't mean I'd trust them with my stuff--I've got friendly acquaintances I don't trust with my valuable stuff in real life.

I'd be willing (depending on the item) to give them stuff if they asked, but certainly not if they just start taking stuff. Note that the DMG has a table--on a 20+ social check, a friend will do something involving a significant risk or loss. The only guaranteed thing is that they'll do something without taking risks or making sacrifices.

Now a vampire's charm says that they consider the vampire to be their best friend. That's stronger.
Yeah if Strahd bashed my head against a wall I'd wanna run for my life, but instead I love him. Yeah, that was a good time.

Sure, you'd love to be offended, but you are under the influence of a spell and the spell says you are a friendly aquantance with X. There are no stipulations besides doing harm.

I'd allow the NPC to be annoyed, like you said, but it'd pass like a gust of wind. They are a friendly aquantance, and so they wouldn't feel very resentful.

Its a weak spell so I certainly wouldn't allow a player or NPC to break the spell unless they were specifically dealt harm. After the spell ends, they will react nornally.

[MaxWilson]

Looking at charm person, it looks very weak (and indeed it is.) But there is a little catch people aren't picking up on....

"The charmed creature views you as a friendly aquantance."

Well, sure, but I thought the point of this thread was to talk about what you can do with the Charmed condition. If you Geas somebody, they don't view you as a friendly acquaintance, even though they are Charmed by you, because that's not what Charmed does.

Adding fuel to the fire is that 5E never defines exactly what Charmed means, or when it's appropriate to call for a Charisma check (that is left to DM discretion, except for IIRC a couple of corner cases in the DMG section on turning hostile creatures friendly, which are still implicitly at DM discretion because they're in the DMG). So getting advantage on Charisma checks doesn't necessarily make you better at anything important than before, because it doesn't necessarily let you auto-succeed on anything you weren't already auto-succeeding on, nor does it let you attempt a roll in any situation where you wouldn't gotten to attempt a roll before.

Therefore, the only real way I can think of to abuse the Charmed condition via Geas/etc. is to abuse the "cannot attack you" clause. If you're a necromancer creating an army of super-wights via Create Undead, and you don't want to have to renew your magical control every day, you can totally Mass Suggestion them ("join my army of the dead!"). But as a form of extra insurance, you probably want to also Charm them so they can't attack you. Since Geas IX is permanent, you could Geas them, or you could rely on a lesser Geas which is merely long-term on the order of months or years. The fact that it will also give you advantage on Charisma checks for intimidation/etc. is just icing on the cake.

[MaxWilson]

Looking at charm person, it looks very weak (and indeed it is.) But there is a little catch people aren't picking up on....

"The charmed creature views you as a friendly aquantance."

If you offend that NPC somehow. It doesn't break the spell. They would then still view you as a friendly aquantance. So you could, say, take something of theirs, or do something they would otherwise never allow, and as long as its not harming them, they will not only allow it, they wouldn't react in any negative fashion what-so-ever as long as its active.

Seems like a highly questionable assumption. You're allowed to have negative reactions towards unfriendly behavior from friendly acquaintances, friends, and even family members. The fact that the "friendly acquaintance" isn't really one doesn't change that.

Go ahead and try stealing your Charm Person victims blind but don't say I didn't warn you when they don't just smile and ignore the theft.

[sophontteks]

Seems like a highly questionable assumption. You're allowed to have negative reactions towards unfriendly behavior from friendly acquaintances, friends, and even family members. The fact that the "friendly acquaintance" isn't really one doesn't change that.

Go ahead and try stealing your Charm Person victims blind but don't say I didn't warn you when they don't just smile and ignore the theft.
You are allowed to have negative behavior towards a friendly aquantance, but they would no longer be a friendly aquantance at that point. The negative feelings would pass as the spell doesn't allow them to change their position from friendly aquantance to anything else.

Outside of things like this, the charmed conditon is very weak. It doesn't even apply to your companions, so it doesn't stop fights. There isn't much to say about the condition itself, but the things which apply the condition normally add to it, and thats where it gets its bite.

[MaxWilson]

You are allowed to have negative behavior towards a friendly aquantance, but they would no longer be a friendly aquantance at that point.

That doesn't follow. If I can have negative reactions toward a family member's behavior, surely I can have a negative reaction towards a friendly acquaintance's behavior. I may kind of like the old dude who lives in my building and helps people on moving day, but I am not going to just stand there and do nothing if he starts kicking my cat around. He may still be a friendly acquaintance after I stop him, and the spell enforces that, but that doesn't mean I won't stop him. If he were doing something more extreme I would call the police and send him to jail... and he could still be a friendly acquaintance, just one who apparently went berserk that one time and spent the night in jail.


The negative feelings would pass as the spell doesn't allow them to change their position from friendly aquantance to anything else.

We seem to have very different views of the appropriate way to respond to a friendly acquaintance who commits a transgression.

[Segev]

Some of this hinges on whether one can be mad at one's friends and "friendly acquaintances" without them ceasing to be either. I think you can. But you can't stay mad at them. And their Advantage on Charisma checks means you're easily convinced to forgive and forget.

But yes, the thread topic is not what you can do with charm person, but with the Charmed condition.

The Warlock's Thrall is a good starting point, because of its lack of any direct control, despite being called a "thrall." It's not like you're going to use this on an already-loyal friend or ally (I mean, I suppose you could for the Telepathy if your friend was okay with it, but...that's definitely an off-label use). You're looking to transform a neutral or hostile person you find potentially useful into...a thrall. But all the mechanics do is make him unable to attack you, and you gain a rough 25% bonus to any Charisma checks you make with him. He can still be absolutely hostile to you. He can revel in watching you suffer.

Heck, you couldn't use this on the lowly guard outside your prison cell and expect more chance of it getting him to let you out than if you cast friends. Not without the long-term effect being important. So...is it? How do you, in play, use this power?

But don't feel the need to be limited to it; I just call it out as a good example of the interesting, but weird, questions that 5e's definition of "Charmed" raises. By all means, discuss anything that causes the Charmed condition. Just don't get hung up on charm person, alone, since it has the extra "and they're friendly" clause that most such effects don't.

Heck, can you use dominate person to convert an enemy into a friend? With the repeated Charisma With Advantage checks, can you make them like you despite controlling them, or so afraid you'll control them again that they'll capitulate to you without the spell in the future?

[Tanarii]

DMG 244-245 outlines social interactions. The DC tables provided are basically "what do you want" vs "how dangerous is it".

A longer term Charm allows you to keep making new requests for them to do stuff, with a likelihood of success dependent on their attitude (except for Charm Person, which is fixed), the nature of the request, and the danger involved.

Just treat each new request as a new interaction and resolve as normal. Possibly with a long term consequence of a worsening or bettering of their attitude to you, based on how you treat them and what kind of requests you make.

[Zalabim]

The Warlock's Thrall is a good starting point, because of its lack of any direct control, despite being called a "thrall." It's not like you're going to use this on an already-loyal friend or ally (I mean, I suppose you could for the Telepathy if your friend was okay with it, but...that's definitely an off-label use). You're looking to transform a neutral or hostile person you find potentially useful into...a thrall. But all the mechanics do is make him unable to attack you, and you gain a rough 25% bonus to any Charisma checks you make with him. He can still be absolutely hostile to you. He can revel in watching you suffer.
I'm not sure using the ability on an existing ally is really off-label, because it doesn't really have a label of uses to begin with. The Telepathy spell details a broad range of shareable information, but also requires a willing creature you are familiar with. Create Thrall may be an upgrade to your favorite minion. Now you can talk anywhere, and that minion cannot be used to harm you. Or you may use it before doing the interrogation of a captured prisoner. You get advantage on all your rolls, they can't fight back, no one else needs to help you, and there was no saving throw. Also, I really don't want to think that Create Thrall gives only one-way communication, but it seems like it only gives one-way communication. If they can't talk back, it's a very different kind of ability than if they can.


Heck, you couldn't use this on the lowly guard outside your prison cell and expect more chance of it getting him to let you out than if you cast friends. Not without the long-term effect being important. So...is it? How do you, in play, use this power?
This is as good a jumping off point as any to say that Friends applies only to your Charisma checks, but Charmed gives you advantage on all social checks, like Wisdom (Insight).

[Malifice]

Your good friend comes over to your house, and begs you to loan him your car. He says he needs it for an emergency.

You give him your car dont you?

Thats what Charm person does.

[Telok]

Your good friend comes over to your house, and begs you to loan him your car. He says he needs it for an emergency.

You give him your car dont you?

Thats what Charm person does.

Depends on the friend. I literally did just lend my car to someone who I've only known about a year. Then there are some people who I've known for close to twenty years that I wouldn't let drive my car even if I were in it with them. And I've got a friend who, even if it's a trip to the emergency room and I'm the one doing the heavy bleeding, does not get to drive.

'Friend' does not equal 'blind to the person's faults' or 'willing to do anything'.

[Malifice]

Depends on the friend. I literally did just lend my car to someone who I've only known about a year. Then there are some people who I've known for close to twenty years that I wouldn't let drive my car even if I were in it with them. And I've got a friend who, even if it's a trip to the emergency room and I'm the one doing the heavy bleeding, does not get to drive.

'Friend' does not equal 'blind to the person's faults' or 'willing to do anything'.

Yes there are variables (maybe you really really need the car right now). But 'good friend'. You know, generally speaking what you would do for a good mate.

Which is a lot, without any thought of reward in return.

[SpanielBear]

Depends on the friend. I literally did just lend my car to someone who I've only known about a year. Then there are some people who I've known for close to twenty years that I wouldn't let drive my car even if I were in it with them. And I've got a friend who, even if it's a trip to the emergency room and I'm the one doing the heavy bleeding, does not get to drive.

'Friend' does not equal 'blind to the person's faults' or 'willing to do anything'.

Which is presumably where the advantage to charisma comes in.

"I need your car."

"I'm not sure..."

"Please."

"Oh my, what was I thinking? Of course, here are the keys, money for fuel and the password for the sat-nav."

[SpanielBear]

Also I may as well ask this here, as the potential shenanigans seem relevant-

The GOOlock thraldom is imposed by touch. You can cast spells with a range of touch through a familiar.

Does this mean what I think it means? Because sending a familiar to climb into the barracks and suborn a sleeping guard seems far more subtle than beating down a whole patrol. The possibilities aren't endless, but they are very, very entertaining.

[JackPhoenix]

Also I may as well ask this here, as the potential shenanigans seem relevant-

The GOOlock thraldom is imposed by touch. You can cast spells with a range of touch through a familiar.

Does this mean what I think it means? Because sending a familiar to climb into the barracks and suborn a sleeping guard seems far more subtle than beating down a whole patrol. The possibilities aren't endless, but they are very, very entertaining.

It's not a spell.

[Tanarii]

The answer to "would I let a very close friend borrow my car" is heck no. That's my car man. It's worth a crap ton of money & I need to use it daily.

Similarly, I wouldn't let a very close friend crash on my couch.

But a close friend (not a friendly acquaintance), I'll call you an uber. I'll rent you a motel room for the night.

Which is irrelevant to Charm Person, because that spell doesn't make someone your "good friend".


Which is presumably where the advantage to charisma comes in.

"I need your car."

"I'm not sure..."

"Please."

"Oh my, what was I thinking? Of course, here are the keys, money for fuel and the password for the sat-nav."
You forgot blue text. Because advantage on Cha can't get you what you normally couldn't, and that's a pretty clear case of it. :smallamused:

[Malifice]

Similarly, I wouldn't let a very close friend crash on my couch.

What, really?

If your friend got chucked out of his house by his wife and had nowhere else to sleep, you'd show him the door? Or vice versa (a female friend needed a place to crash because of an abusive boyfriend or some ****)?

Jesus man. My mates can crash whenever. They can eat my food, borrow my car, I'll help them move house, I'll loan them money without wanting it back etc.

The day they take advantage of me, is the day that stops, and they're no longer my friend.

[Vogie]

Beast Bond, from XGtE, allows you to telepathically communicate to a beast you've charmed, as well as giving that creature advantage to attacks on creatures within melee range of you. They have to have an intelligence of 3 or lower though

[Tanarii]

What, really?

If your friend got chucked out of his house by his wife and had nowhere else to sleep, you'd show him the door? Or vice versa (a female friend needed a place to crash because of an abusive boyfriend or some ****)?I'll admit, I was thinking of couch surfers. I'm not twenty any more and neither are my friends. We're beyond that. If a close friend has that level of problems, I'll see what I can do to help them with them.

I am curious though ... why is your debate style to always go to the furthest possible extreme to cast someone in a bad light?

[sophontteks]

Lol yeah. I've let my close friend move in. I've helped him get into college. He's been driving my car for about a year. I've loaned him $400 last month.

The charmed condition in itself is weak because its so easy to get advantage on charisma checks already. Anyone can add to the conversation, which would be the help action for advantage. Good appropriate clothes, perfumes, etc can all give advantage depending on the situation as well. A good face will be making most social checks with advantage, which is good because social DCs tend to be very high. Its not easy to convince people to go out of their way for you.

Charmed itself is basically "The target won't attack you." (but will still attack your friends.) It's negligable. I would love to talk about spells and abilities that apply the charmed condition though. They are all abusable. The nature of the charm is a part of that spell or ability outside the condition itself, and you can do some really cool stuff with them.

My personal favorite is Glamorous performance. The nuclear option of charms. Turning strangers into groupies for an hour will break social envounters. And Glamour at 6 can make any charmed creature autofail 10 free castings of command.

[Tanarii]

The charmed condition in itself is weak because its so easy to get advantage on charisma checks already. Anyone can add to the conversation, which would be the help action for advantage. Good appropriate clothes, perfumes, etc can all give advantage depending on the situation as well. A good face will be making most social checks with advantage, which is good because social DCs tend to be very high. Its not easy to convince people to go out of their way for you.Sounds like a group check to me, not Help. The peanut gallery jumping in to 'help' the Face can easily drag down the result. It also makes advantage on Cha checks for the Face (or anyone else) remain useful.

[sophontteks]

Sounds like a group check to me, not Help. The peanut gallery jumping in to 'help' the Face can easily drag down the result. It also makes advantage on Cha checks for the Face (or anyone else) remain useful.
It's always the DM's decision if their input is positive enough to qualify as a help action, but it normally is. Its not hard to enforce a persuasion, intimidation, or deception check by adding more to the conversation. It definitely isn't a group check unless the entire group is trying, and even then, they can't all talk at once. Its a bit impossible.

Here's an example.
Party Face: Look we know you know more then you are letting on. We've seen that mark inside the building. We can help end this nightmare if you could just point us in the right direction.
Other party member assists, a cleric: I am a man of the cloth. If you can not trust in us, trust in the divine power of *Insert god here.*

Something like that. It's a good thing to have social encounters be something more then the one designated party face doing all the talking.

[hymer]

I'm wondering what people put into the wording "friendly acquaintance". That sounds like less than a friend to me, and much less than a good friend.

[Tanarii]

Here's an example.
Party Face: Look we know you know more then you are letting on. We've seen that mark inside the building. We can help end this nightmare if you could just point us in the right direction.
Other party member assists, a cleric: I am a man of the cloth. If you can not trust in us, trust in the divine power of *Insert god here.*
And I'd rule that as a two man group check. Group checks don't have to be the entire party, just those involved in the check.

As a DM, I haven't encountered a situation in which I'd rule two people becoming involved in a discussion as one giving Help to another, instead of a two person group check.

[sophontteks]

So you arbitrarily do not allow help actions with charisma checks?
Is there a reason?

[PhoenixPhyre]

I'm wondering what people put into the wording "friendly acquaintance". That sounds like less than a friend to me, and much less than a good friend.

I draw a strong distinction (for myself) between a friendly acquaintance and a good friend.

Acquaintances are the folks I say hi to at church or at work or make small talk but wouldn't really share my secrets (or my stuff without at least questions) with. I don't call them up to go do stuff, but they're known and they're not enemies. Positive relationship, but distant one.

Friends are people I know and trust and would sacrifice for without needing a reason. If they need something, I'm there. They're the ones I'd ask to help me if I had issues. Or talk about personal stuff. Or hang out with. Etc.

Charm person is the first, not the second IMO. It turns them from neutral or hostile to friendly and drops their guard as to suspicion, but it isn't an instant "best friend who you'd take a bullet for" effect. That requires dominate person or a vampire's charm ability.

And most charm effects don't even guarantee that level, only that they won't attack you and let you influence them more (advantage).

[MaxWilson]

Your good friend comes over to your house, and begs you to loan him your car. He says he needs it for an emergency.

You give him your car dont you?

Thats what Charm person does.

No, Charm Person is "the guy who lives across the hall from you comes over and begs you to loan him your car for an emergency."

And the Charmed condition isn't even that. It's pretty much, "You're in a good mood and a total stranger is asking you to loan him your car for an emergency." Good mood = more inclined than usual to help ~= advantage on petitioner's Persuasion check, if there is one. If you're the sort of person who would always say "yes" or always "no", then there is no check, but if you're the kind of person who might say "yes" occasionally, depending, today is a good day for that to happen, and an ability check is a good way to represent that.

[Malifice]

I'll admit, I was thinking of couch surfers. I'm not twenty any more and neither are my friends. We're beyond that. If a close friend has that level of problems, I'll see what I can do to help them with them.


Hey bro, Im 43.

If my mate knocked on my door and asked to crash, Id say yes before I even asked why and what was wrong.

Different horses I guess.


I am curious though ... why is your debate style to always go to the furthest possible extreme to cast someone in a bad light?

You were the one that wouldn't lend a friend in need a place to stay on your couch (which costs you nothing) or loan them your car.

I just find that alien. I'd give my last 10 bucks to a friend if he asked for it.

[MaxWilson]

You were the one that wouldn't lend a friend in need a place to stay on your couch (which costs you nothing) or loan them your car.

I just find that alien. I'd give my last 10 bucks to a friend if he asked for it.

Are you aware that this was a miscommunication? Tanar'ri wouldn't encourage a friend to crash on his couch instead of going home. You interpreted this as saying that he wouldn't let a friend in need crash on his couch. What he said is not what you heard.

Just clearing that up...

[Malifice]

Are you aware that this was a miscommunication?

I am now, but it wasnt clear to me in the 1st post.

He said 'I wouldn't let a very close friend crash on my couch'.

I took that as him meaning... well what it says. That he wouldn't let a close friend even crash on his couch.


No, Charm Person is "the guy who lives across the hall from you comes over and begs you to loan him your car for an emergency."

No it's not Max. It creates a friend. The guy across the hall isn't a friend (unless he is one); he's just someone who lives across the hall.

I dont like the guy that lives across the hallway from me. He's like in his 30's and lives with his mother, and thats freaking weird.

[Mellack]

No, Charm Person is "the guy who lives across the hall from you comes over and begs you to loan him your car for an emergency."



No it's not Max. It creates a friend. The guy across the hall isn't a friend (unless he is one); he's just someone who lives across the hall.

I dont like the guy that lives across the hallway from me. He's like in his 30's and lives with his mother, and thats freaking weird.

Did they change the wording in the PHB printings? My book says "The charmed creature regards you as a friendly acquaintance." I consider that very different than a friend.

Looking up the word acquaintance, I found this definition: a person one knows slightly, but who is not a close friend.

[Tanarii]

So you arbitrarily do not allow help actions with charisma checks?
Is there a reason?
It's not arbritrary. It's the appropriate application of the best rule for resolution of the situation, in my judgement. Social interaction is a situation in which a second person stepping in to add their two cents can easily drag the results down. That means group checks, not the effects of helping on a skill check.


Did they change the wording in the PHB printings? My book says "The charmed creature regards you as a friendly acquaintance." I consider that very different than a friend.
Yep. Charm Person does not make a close friend. Just a friendly acquaintance. But IMO that should be suffice cent to put them in the "friendly" category for resolution social situations per the DMG.



You were the one that wouldn't lend a friend in need a place to stay on your couch (which costs you nothing) or loan them your car.
And yet you then immediately went for the extreme example of a friend who has been abused or kicked out by their wife. This is typical of your posting style, to pick the most extreme possible thing you can, as if that is generally applicable. Or in any way representative of what the other person actually wrote.

[Segev]

I would be more likely to offer to drive a friendly acquaintance somewhere than to loan them my car. I do have a guest room that I would let a friend stay in, albeit not for too many nights.

[MaxWilson]

No it's not Max. It creates a friend. The guy across the hall isn't a friend (unless he is one); he's just someone who lives across the hall.

Apparently we don't have the same text in our PHBs for Charm Person. Mine says "friendly acquaintance." Does yours say "close friend"?

[Malifice]

Apparently we don't have the same text in our PHBs for Charm Person. Mine says "friendly acquaintance." Does yours say "close friend"?

The post you quoted doesn't day close friend.

It creates a friend.

Not some stranger across the hall.

Someone you hang out with for a beer every now and then. Not your go to wing man, but you get invited to their wedding and then send you Christmas cards.

That kind of thing.

They're going to listen to you with a view go helping you out unless there is a good reason not to.

[Mellack]

The post you quoted doesn't day close friend.

It creates a friend.

Not some stranger across the hall.

Someone you hang out with for a beer every now and then. Not your go to wing man, but you get invited to their wedding and then send you Christmas cards.

That kind of thing.

They're going to listen to you with a view go helping you out unless there is a good reason not to.

It doesn't create a friend, it creates an acquaintance. They are described as friendly. You are confusing the adjective with the noun. The chipper lady who works at the diner is friendly to everyone, it does not mean every customer is her friend. If I have been going there regularly and we know each other's names and engage is some small talk, that would make her a friendly acquaintance. It doesn't mean she is getting invited to my wedding.

[MaxWilson]

The post you quoted doesn't day close friend.

It creates a friend.

Not some stranger across the hall.

Someone you hang out with for a beer every now and then. Not your go to wing man, but you get invited to their wedding and then send you Christmas cards.

That kind of thing.

They're going to listen to you with a view go helping you out unless there is a good reason not to.

So, my PHB says "friendly acquaintance." Does yours say "friend"?

[Scorpiomoth]

I suppose the GOOlock's thrall ability could be used in an I treating way; sneak into someone room at night and enthrall them in their sleep then leave. You're now the strange voice in their head telling them what to do and they have no idea who you are, plus you have advantage on your ability to intimidate and lie to them. Maybe stay in a nearby tavern so you can watch them subtly, much more effective than a normal dude walking up and saying the same things.
You could also use the 'can't attack you' clause for fear in general. With some charm abilities you can threaten them and say horrible things, tell them you'll kill their family and they can't stop you, then watch them be physically incapable of striking you, so go for intimidation with advantage and congrats they're yours to manipulate freely.
May sound kind of evil but you're playing a Cthulhu worshipping warlock with mind control powers, you know what you signed up for.

[MrStabby]

So you arbitrarily do not allow help actions with charisma checks?
Is there a reason?

I don't think it is charisma based, but more that the PC needs to describe what actions they are taking to achieve what outcome. Are they just agreeing with what the person taking the lead is saying? Probably not adding a lot. On the other hand if they are adding the threat of violence to an intimidate check by looking really really big... then I would be more likely to go with that.