Post Zombie Apocalypse stories?

[Rodin]

I tend to really like my post-apocalypse media - movies, games, comics, and some books as well. I also have liked a fair few zombie apocalypse stories, but those have grown old as it's the same story every time. We follow a group of people with the survival skills of a group of chronically depressed lemmings, people get eaten, story ends.

This week, I was introudced to Stand Still Stay Silent, a webcomic that is basically Nordic Zombie Apocalypse. However, we don't actually see the apocalypse happen - we instead skip to 90 years after the fact, and people are venturing into the wastes to gather information from the Old World.

This has lead me to a realization - the reason so many Zombie movies are the same is that they're targeting the same small slice of greater apocalypse fiction - the actual events of the apocalypse themselves. If you look at apocalypse stories, you can divide them into different categories with different storytelling:

1) Pre-Apocalypse - something is coming, our heroes must stop it. Examples: Armageddon, Deep Impact, etc.

2) Apocalypse - world is actually ending, our heroes must survive. Examples: Day After Tomorrow, 2012, etc.

3) Post-Apocalypse - World ended many years ago, be it decades or hundreds of years ago. Our heroes must survive in this new, horrible world. Examples: Mad Max, Waterworld, Fallout, many more

4) Post-post Apocalypse - World ended MANY years ago, and has begun to recover. The apocalypse is backstory that lets the author tell a story about a new world. Examples: Horizon: Zero Dawn, Sora no Woto, Scrapped Princess.

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So, what we're missing for zombie apocalypse stories are those where the apocalypse part has come and gone - the zombies won, and now humanity is having to deal with the fact that they are in scattered camps locked out from most of the natural resources. I can really only think of a few stories that fit this, with the aforementioned Stand Still Stay Silent being one of them. The Last of Us is another good example - there are settlements where people are forted up and can live reasonably safely, but going outside is considered extremely dangerous. Some of the later Romero movies toy with this a bit as I recall, but those still tend to be of tiny groups of a dozen or so people rather than having actual towns full of people so thematically they really fall more in line with traditional zombie films.

What other stories are there that fit this? Stories that take place decades after the zombie plague, where society has more or less stabilized?

[Thrudd]

That is basically the last few seasons of Walking Dead, and the upcoming season is going to time jump a number of years after the last. It's now about people creating communities, the different ways they are structured, relationships and conflicts between them. The zombies are basically a natural hazard that everyone has figured out how to deal with in one way or another, and in some cases take advantage of.

[zlefin]

it generally doesn't make so much sense to be "post" apocalypse if the zombies are still around and a threat. if they're still around it's more of an active apocalypse, or omnipresent threat.

and if the zombies aren't still around, then why have the story use "zombies" rather than one of the other ways to cause an apocalypse? if you say zombies, people are gonna expect to see the zombies at some point.

[BeerMug Paladin]

Try the movie "Fido". I will agree that "The Walking Dead" seems to be slowly transitioning into that sort of setting. I think it's had a good, believable transition, as well.

I'm not really clear on what would qualify as a post-zombie apocalypse story in general. The Last of Us has communities of people, sure, but there doesn't seem to be any sort of civilization that exists. It's just various types of madmen, barbarians, cannibals and the like fighting for transient supremacy. This is probably at least partly due to the plot being what it is and the story is a game, so there's a limitation on what can be depicted.

I would hazard a guess that most stories in this genre don't go down that route because the writers just can't imagine what might come after. You know, either the collapse of modernity and a reversion to an earlier era of technology and knowledge, or the capture of some of those zombies and all the science that will occur at them.

Well, plus it would make peoples' reaction to the monsters kind of blasé.

"Oh look, Fred. Looks like Mary's cancer was further along than we thought. Oh my, she's trampling the roses!"

"Oh, calm down. I'll go get the skull-whacker."

In regards to books, I imagine there's a lot more of the post-apocalypse approach.

[DMfromTheAbyss]

For a book with this sort of premise (sort of?) 'The Girl with all the Gifts' (Book not movie, I haven't seen the movie) sort of has this as a theme, in that the theme is in dealing with what comes after as opposed to the apocalypse itself.

It is a sort of still in the middle of the apocalypse and choosing the ending for it, as opposed to a post-apocalypse story though so close but not quite.

So few Zombie stories actually end or make appreciable progress to any sort of end though so you are not exactly ruined for choices.

[LaZodiac]

I mean, the book version of World War Z is entirely this.

[Rodin]

it generally doesn't make so much sense to be "post" apocalypse if the zombies are still around and a threat. if they're still around it's more of an active apocalypse, or omnipresent threat.

and if the zombies aren't still around, then why have the story use "zombies" rather than one of the other ways to cause an apocalypse? if you say zombies, people are gonna expect to see the zombies at some point.

If the zombies are no longer around, that's more of a post-post-Apocalypse kind of thing. The situation that caused the fall of civilization is entirely resolved, and now humanity just needs to rebuild from the ashes.


Try the movie "Fido". I will agree that "The Walking Dead" seems to be slowly transitioning into that sort of setting. I think it's had a good, believable transition, as well.

I'm not really clear on what would qualify as a post-zombie apocalypse story in general. The Last of Us has communities of people, sure, but there doesn't seem to be any sort of civilization that exists. It's just various types of madmen, barbarians, cannibals and the like fighting for transient supremacy. This is probably at least partly due to the plot being what it is and the story is a game, so there's a limitation on what can be depicted.

I would hazard a guess that most stories in this genre don't go down that route because the writers just can't imagine what might come after. You know, either the collapse of modernity and a reversion to an earlier era of technology and knowledge, or the capture of some of those zombies and all the science that will occur at them.

Well, plus it would make peoples' reaction to the monsters kind of blasé.

"Oh look, Fred. Looks like Mary's cancer was further along than we thought. Oh my, she's trampling the roses!"

"Oh, calm down. I'll go get the skull-whacker."

In regards to books, I imagine there's a lot more of the post-apocalypse approach.

I'm thinking more along the lines of an Attack on Titan style setting - which, come to think of it, is basically "Giant Zombies!". Humanity lives in towns of substantial size, but they have to remain behind the walls because there's a bajillion zombies still roaming around a couple hundred years after the event.

And I suppose that's part of the problem - it pretty much requires explicitly magical zombies for them to stick around as a viable population for a long time. There's also the usual problem with slow zombies - once you start getting people organized rather than as a panicked group of idiots, the threat of slow zombies pretty much disappears. A standard Greek Phalanx would be able to wreck your standard shambler horde with very little risk. Even fast zombies just aren't threatening enough to a properly organized military, because at the end of the day they're unarmed people trying to swarm armed and armored troops.

A more generic post-apocalyptic setting opens up wider options - Punk gangs have spiky vehicles, guns, and the usual range of human ingenuity to be dangerous. Mutated creatures can be fast and deadly, as well as hunting more efficiently than a brainless zombie.


I mean, the book version of World War Z is entirely this.

In that it's being told from the perspective of someone long after the event, yes. Much of the story though is about the actual apocalypse itself - the spread of the disease, the fall of New York, the battle of Yonkers, the escape of that Japanese guy from his apartment building, etc. It's really only towards the end that we start seeing the fruits of humans gathering into organized communities. And as above, once they do it's a zombie ass-kicking.

I think that ultimately answers the question - there isn't a whole lot of pure zombie apocalypses that explore beyond the first few weeks because that's when the fridge logic really starts to set in. Zombies just aren't threatening enough to drive a story beyond that point, and if you're going to make them more dangerous you might as well just use more inventive creatures in the first place.

[Traab]

What I find the most annoying, especially in zombie flicks, is the way they tend to hurry from apocalypse starting, to long term shelter and survival. Basically it goes, "Oh no! Zombies are killing everyone! Lets run!" Then there is a ten minute action sequence and most of the rest of the movie is "Ok, we are safe here for quite some time, what do we do now?" One of my favorites that worked well with the in between part was a frankly awful anime, high school of the dead. It was awful for its fan service garbage more than anything, the story itself was cool. The zombie outbreak happens, everything falls apart, and the rest of the season basically covers the next week of time in universe as they scramble from temporary location to temporary location trying to survive and escape. They have to deal with rioting panicky civilians, gangs taking advantage of the unrest, some charles manson lunatic creating a religious cult that basically worships him, services like electricity breaking down due to lack of upkeep, deciding on staying as their group or joining another, and coming up with ideas on how they can survive long term and get supplies to do it. I find that way more interesting than the inevitable undead siege around wherever the protagonists (and of course hidden antagonist) forted up.

[The Glyphstone]

Unique in my experience among zombie apocalypse fiction is the Newsflesh trilogy - specifically because it takes place in a setting where zombie fiction exists, so when the apocalypse begins people are genre savvy enough to counter it appropriately. As a result, humanity+civilization doesn't collapse, but instead endures and adapts to the now-prevalent threat of occasional zombie outbreaks. Houses and communities are specifically designed to minimize the potential of someone who spontaneously zombifies spreading their condition. Wild zombie packs do wander around the wilderness between fortified towns, but they can be outrun with a decent vehicle and 'zombie-baiting' is considered an extreme sport. The CDC is the single most powerful organization in the world, and George Romero was nominated for sainthood.

[Rodin]

Unique in my experience among zombie apocalypse fiction is the Newsflesh trilogy - specifically because it takes place in a setting where zombie fiction exists, so when the apocalypse begins people are genre savvy enough to counter it appropriately. As a result, humanity+civilization doesn't collapse, but instead endures and adapts to the now-prevalent threat of occasional zombie outbreaks. Houses and communities are specifically designed to minimize the potential of someone who spontaneously zombifies spreading their condition. Wild zombie packs do wander around the wilderness between fortified towns, but they can be outrun with a decent vehicle and 'zombie-baiting' is considered an extreme sport. The CDC is the single most powerful organization in the world, and George Romero was nominated for sainthood.

Exactly the sort of thing I was looking for, thanks. :smallsmile: I will check it out.

The other case I've seen of zombie knowledge being used ahead of an apocalypse is the Black Tide Rising series. The main family are preppers (or at least the father is), and they specifically have a zombie apocalypse plan. In which case, the plan is "get a load of supplies and weapons, get a boat, get off-shore". I can't remember if they actually use Romero movies though...a lot of the celebrities in that series are McBonald-style fictional versions of themselves.

[Cikomyr]

That is basically the last few seasons of Walking Dead, and the upcoming season is going to time jump a number of years after the last. It's now about people creating communities, the different ways they are structured, relationships and conflicts between them. The zombies are basically a natural hazard that everyone has figured out how to deal with in one way or another, and in some cases take advantage of.

I may actually watch thr show again then.

I gave up at Alexandria. When the only beat the showrunners could use was "fund a refuge, buils hope that it could be nice long term, make everything crash and everyone but the main characters dies".

If they actually show *progress*.. hmm..

[comicshorse]

I'd highly recommend 'In the Flesh', two series of TV from the BBC set after the initial return of the dead where, eventually, it was discovered that the Zombie could be returned to full consciousness with the proper medication. Set after the return of order the series concentrates on the problems of society dealing with accepting 'The Risen' who while perfectly safe, provided they take their pills, are still the beings who were slaughtering their loved ones mere months ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_the_Flesh_(TV_series)


If you're into comics then there's Avatar's 'Crossed +100' spin off from the 'Crossed' comics. Set 100 years after 'The Surprise' when the Crossed emerged (basically a virus that transforms people into Reaver style pyscho's). Various settlements have established themselves from the survivors and limited trade and communication between them has been established.

[Sapphire Guard]

Zombie apocalypses have a limited window where the undead are a threat. That's why the writers always skip forward a few weeks to when there's already hordes, but before the public get used enough to them to pull their teeth.

Best recommendation I have is Resident Evil games, which doesn't really fit your criteria because the outbreaks are contained, but we do have things like the BSAA being set up to counter the threat as the outbreaks continue, it's more of an ongoing battle than post apocalyptic.

[Thrudd]

I may actually watch thr show again then.

I gave up at Alexandria. When the only beat the showrunners could use was "fund a refuge, buils hope that it could be nice long term, make everything crash and everyone but the main characters dies".

If they actually show *progress*.. hmm..

How long ago did you give up? The upcoming season will definitely show significant progress, if they go by the general plot of the comics (and I'm pretty sure they are). I mean, the last few seasons have not been "how to build a community after the apocalypse", it's still a slog of terrible things happening- it's just now there are more established, generally sustainable communities found with decent populations, and the warlord who extracts tribute from everyone in the region is the focus of the conflict.

[deuterio12]

If the zombies are no longer around, that's more of a post-post-Apocalypse kind of thing. The situation that caused the fall of civilization is entirely resolved, and now humanity just needs to rebuild from the ashes.


That's contradictory with your own initial examples. Horizon zero dawn still has the super killer bots around (luckily they have a fatal weakness against basic bows, shame the previous humans never realized that) with the main plot being that you need to stop them from fully rebooting, while in Scrapped Princess humanity is still caged by the same beings that destroyed modern civilization and rebuilding is not an option until they figure out how to deal with said beings.

[Cikomyr]

How long ago did you give up? The upcoming season will definitely show significant progress, if they go by the general plot of the comics (and I'm pretty sure they are). I mean, the last few seasons have not been "how to build a community after the apocalypse", it's still a slog of terrible things happening- it's just now there are more established, generally sustainable communities found with decent populations, and the warlord who extracts tribute from everyone in the region is the focus of the conflict.

I stopped watching while Alexandria was under attack by weird raiders with a wolf fetish

[Thrudd]

I stopped watching while Alexandria was under attack by weird raiders with a wolf fetish

Oh yeah. There are plenty of people left after that. The second half of that season jumps a couple months ahead after they rebuild.

[Pex]

Zombie Apocalypse stories almost all tend to tell the same story - the living are worse. Without Civilization people are selfish murderous psychopaths. Stories can never be just about survival or trying to rebuild. There's always a Jerk (Shane, the father in Night of the Living Dead), Evil Bastard Leader Of The Safe Haven Community (The Governor, see also 28 Days Later and City of the Dead), or Donkey Cavity Who Just Has To Ruin It All (Negan, The Bikers in Dawn of the Dead) who destroy any attempt to rebuild and most everyone dies. Of course there needs to be conflict to have a story, but the Good Guys never win. The villain can be defeated, but it's a Pyrrhic victory. It's why I stopped watching The Walking Dead and Fear The Walking Dead. The name of the villain changes, but it's the same story arc repeated over and over. I was liking The Resident Evil movies because initially it was about preventing the zombie apocalypse, partially. Once it happened, it was the same movie as any other. Umbrella Corporation is Negan is Governor is Shane is Father.

Thankfully, for me, there have been exceptions - World War Z (the book) and Warm Bodies. In those stories the living have victory over the zombies.