Alternate Form and Feats: Question

[Amashelle]

Hello All,

I have been scouring google for an answer, but have come up blank, so I'm hoping you lovely people might be able to help.

I'm wondering about the Alternate Form ability of the Grimalkin (also Bronze, Gold, and Silver Dragons). The DMG and SRD say:


The creature gains the natural weapons, natural armor, movement modes, and extraordinary special attacks of its new form.
The creature retains the special qualities of its original form. It does not gain any special qualities of its new form.

What I can't seem to determine is whether a feat such as Weapon Finesse is an 'extraordinary special attack' (the Swashbuckler class classifies Weapon Finesse as an extraordinary ability, but I don't know it that's the same thing as an ex. special attack), or if it is considered a 'special quality'.

My research has revealed that Alternate Form (and all abilities and spells related to shapeshifting) is complex at the best of times, and there may not be a clear answer to my question, but any insights would be appreciated.

Thank you,
Ama

[Goaty14]

Weapon Finesse is just a feat. Not special ability nor special attack. This is because monsters with Weapon Finesse have it show up in the "feats" section.

[Amashelle]

So, does that mean that a Grimalkin (who does not possess the weapon finesse feat) who takes the form of a dire hawk (medium animal, MMII), would have to use the hawk's relatively low strength score if it wanted to attack?

On a related note, what about racial bonuses to skills, like a Leopard's bonus to hide, which are a result of its appearance? Would that be up to the DM to decide, or is there RAW to say whether the grimalkin would gain these skills or not?

[sleepyphoenixx]

So, does that mean that a Grimalkin (who does not possess the weapon finesse feat) who takes the form of a dire hawk (medium animal, MMII), would have to use the hawk's relatively low strength score if it wanted to attack?
Yes.


On a related note, what about racial bonuses to skills, like a Leopard's bonus to hide, which are a result of its appearance? Would that be up to the DM to decide, or is there RAW to say whether the grimalkin would gain these skills or not?
No. You get exactly what the description of Alternate Form says you get. Otherwise everything remains the same. Racial skill bonuses are sadly not on that list.

For a quick reference i'd suggest taking a look at the Polymorph, Wild Shape and Shapechange Handbook (http://minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=1415).

[Amashelle]

Thank you, sleepyphoenixx, this is exactly the sort of thing I was looking for :)

[Shalist]

Keep in mind that the shapechanger subtype (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#shapechangerSubtype) (which having 'alternate form' qualifies you for) gives weapon/armor/shield proficiencies.



Proficient with its natural weapons, with simple weapons, and with any weapons mentioned in the creature’s description.
Proficient with any armor mentioned in the creature’s description, as well as all lighter forms. If no form of armor is mentioned, the shapechanger is not proficient with armor. A shapechanger is proficient with shields if it is proficient with any type of armor.


This doesn't apply to feats like 'weapon focus / finesse,' just feats like 'exotic weapon proficiency: spiked chain.' Also, it's probably too cheesy to actually use as a player; especially if you mention tons of weapons / armors in your character description, and swap out the bonus proficiencies for regular feats with 'dark chaos shuffle' (2 spells that permanently swap 1 feat for another). Still, interesting to note.