Strength to HP Houserule

[Trask]

While I don't agree that Dexterity makes Strength useless, I think its more than fair to say that Dexterity has a significant advantage over Strength in general as an ability score. A caster who wants to be optimized, or a multiclasser with no specific need for either will choose Dex almost every time. So, assuming we care about this or even think it should be addressed, what could be done?

A friend of mine told me about a houserule his DM was using where a character may apply half their Strength mod rounded up, to a minimum of +1 (as long as the mod is at least +1), to their HP along with their Constitution. Pretty simple, and useful for everyone. I was pretty impressed with the simplicity and I will probably ask my DM to give it a try in our games.

Potential downsides obviously is HP inflation and the fact that it would be a bit of a pain to calc this for every monster as well. In an ideal world, D&D would slaughter some sacred cows and fuse Con and Str into one stat already but we arent there yet.

Thoughts on this? Anyone else agree with me but found a solution they think is better?

[ReaperChaos]

I do not think that there is a build that doesn't have a need for either DEX or STR. All classes need DEX, but not all need STR, that is true in a sense. Even STR builds benefit from DEX while the opposite isn't as noticeably real. However, I consider STR a score that frontline warriors would invest in, even from a roleplaying aspect. I don't consider a Wizard strong enough to wield a Greatsword, but I could consider him agile enough to swing around a dagger. So I personally get why the difference exists. But I wouldn't mind making STR more appealing somehow.

Regarding your suggestion, a Fighter or Paladin would have around 60 more HP, while a lvl 20 Barbarian would have around 80 more HP. Especially for the Barbarian with his rage, that is even more HP. And imagine something like the Tarrasque, with it's +10 STR. But mechanical aspects aside, I disagree for the single purpose that a human's endurance doesn't increase just with Strength training. Imagine a Brawler with a lot of Strength taking a mean punch in, say, the chest. He takes it. I believe a trained fighter who focuses on a build with more speed would also be able to take that hit. To take it from a more fantasy persepctive, imagine those cartoons or anime, where there are characters who can take otherwise fatal hits and still fight. Is every single one of them a character who has superior physical strength? I don't think so. It is a good idea to find uses for STR, but personally, I don't think HP is the way.

[GorogIrongut]

I personally don't see a problem with it. It makes Strength more appealing. It even benefits martials over casters which would go a small distance to bridging the gap between the two.

That said, if I were to implement this rule I would also implement a rule for Intelligence stating that each +1 modifier for intelligence grants access to another skill/language.

[Malifice]

While I don't agree that Dexterity makes Strength useless, I think its more than fair to say that Dexterity has a significant advantage over Strength in general as an ability score. A caster who wants to be optimized, or a multiclasser with no specific need for either will choose Dex almost every time. So, assuming we care about this or even think it should be addressed, what could be done?

A friend of mine told me about a houserule his DM was using where a character may apply half their Strength mod rounded up, to a minimum of +1 (as long as the mod is at least +1), to their HP along with their Constitution. Pretty simple, and useful for everyone. I was pretty impressed with the simplicity and I will probably ask my DM to give it a try in our games.

Potential downsides obviously is HP inflation and the fact that it would be a bit of a pain to calc this for every monster as well. In an ideal world, D&D would slaughter some sacred cows and fuse Con and Str into one stat already but we arent there yet.

Thoughts on this? Anyone else agree with me but found a solution they think is better?

I always dump Dexterity on anything with heavy armor proficiency.

[Trask]

I disagree for the single purpose that a human's endurance doesn't increase just with Strength training. Imagine a Brawler with a lot of Strength taking a mean punch in, say, the chest. He takes it. I believe a trained fighter who focuses on a build with more speed would also be able to take that hit. To take it from a more fantasy persepctive, imagine those cartoons or anime, where there are characters who can take otherwise fatal hits and still fight. Is every single one of them a character who has superior physical strength? I don't think so. It is a good idea to find uses for STR, but personally, I don't think HP is the way.

No doubt strength is not the primary attribute that determines health and resiliency, but I think it should count for something. Realistically, but more importantly archetypally, a beefy, built, warrior is going to be a tougher guy than a thinner, more lithe guy. Physical strength and muscle power are not on a 1 to 1 with toughness, which is why its only half the mod, but they do matter quite a bit. If you land a blow on a musclebound power lifter and then land that same blow on a professional lithe, thin, toned, gymnast the gymnast would be more impacted by the blow. And even if thats not quite true, in fantasy fiction, comics, and everything else D&D is inspired by, big guys are tougher than thin guys.

Mechanically it feels good because a character investing in Strength is going to be on the front lines. Something feels right about a sword and board fighter naturally having more HP than a bow fighter who dumped str and hides.



I personally don't see a problem with it. It makes Strength more appealing. It even benefits martials over casters which would go a small distance to bridging the gap between the two.

That said, if I were to implement this rule I would also implement a rule for Intelligence stating that each +1 modifier for intelligence grants access to another skill/language.

That is a house rule we already use, I think it works well to encourage that ability score which I think is also lackluster.


I always dump Dexterity on anything with heavy armor proficiency.

I often dump it as well, but my initiative and my saves suffer. Its not an "optimal" choice by far. Obviously we are not all optimizers but Dexterity is pretty unquestionably the more useful ability score in 90% of situations when they arent being compared for purely combat purposes.

[odigity]

Regarding your suggestion, a Fighter or Paladin would have around 60 more HP, while a lvl 20 Barbarian would have around 80 more HP. Especially for the Barbarian with his rage, that is even more HP.

Those are very large numbers, which should probably be a warning sign.

On the other hand... it does kinda bug me that all 5e characters have very similar HP, even comparing a Wizard to a Barbarian. The spread just isn't that big. Maybe it's not crazy to let the Str-based martials have a 30-40% bump to really stand out in the HP dept. Meat is what they are.

Part of me misses the ancient times when a Wizard started out with nothing more than 1d4 HP and two 1st lvl spells - no cantrips. You really felt your mortality.

[RazorChain]

STR gives you bonus to damage

DEX gives bonus to hit

Like every other system that isnt D&D.

YAY! and there was much rejoicing

[Trask]

STR gives you bonus to damage

DEX gives bonus to hit

Like every other system that isnt D&D.

YAY! and there was much rejoicing

If only. But such a system would leave the smugly SAD spellcasting classes way more powerful than their melee counterparts.

[Malifice]

I often dump it as well, but my initiative and my saves suffer.

I dont care about Dex saves. Failing one is simply 'dont halve the damage' 99 percent of the time.

Failing a Con, Str, Wis, Cha or Int save is usually 'death or lose control of character for a while or nasty condition applied' which is far worse.

[Lunali]

If only. But such a system would leave the smugly SAD spellcasting classes way more powerful than their melee counterparts.

Int gives a bonus to damage, wis gives a bonus to hit, cha increases hp.

[PhantomSoul]

Instead of giving them HP directly (also, negative STR Mod --> reduced HP in that system?), you could give them an extra Hit Die for each point of STR Mod above 0. Now the 20 STR has an extra 5 Hit Dice. (Probably would work better in a game where you have things other than HP regeneration keying off Hit Dice, unless Hit Dice do get enough use for that in your games.)

[CharonsHelper]

Or if you don't want to deal with HP inflation - just make it so that STR weapons get 1.5x damage while DEX weapons only get 1x. Gives STR builds a 1-2 damage boost each swing.

[Mikal]

STR gives you bonus to damage

DEX gives bonus to hit

Like every other system that isnt D&D.

YAY! and there was much rejoicing

Except that in lots of those systems that makes Dex or its analog too much of a god stat and str useless.
See- White Wolf.

Boo! And there was much wailing and gnashing of teeth!

[Trask]

Int gives a bonus to damage, wis gives a bonus to hit, cha increases hp.
I might have tried this if I didnt know my players would instantly break into revolt.


Instead of giving them HP directly (also, negative STR Mod --> reduced HP in that system?), you could give them an extra Hit Die for each point of STR Mod above 0. Now the 20 STR has an extra 5 Hit Dice. (Probably would work better in a game where you have things other than HP regeneration keying off Hit Dice, unless Hit Dice do get enough use for that in your games.)

Thats not bad. It also helps fulfill that archetype of the super strong guy with seemingly endless reserves of strength.


Or if you don't want to deal with HP inflation - just make it so that STR weapons get 1.5x damage while DEX weapons only get 1x. Gives STR builds a 1-2 damage boost each swing.

Reading that, something just occured to me. What if you just gave all strength based melee attacks the effects of GWF and then replace GWF with something actually good?

[CBAnaesthesia]

I don't think it makes much sense to have Str influence HP. It also begs the question of if this would apply to enemies - you're looking at a lot of HP bloat on things like Dragons or Giants if it applies to them with their 22+ Str scores.

I'd prefer just removing +Dex to damage on finesse and ranged weapons. You can still use it to hit and add your Str mod to damage, so a 20 Dex 14 Str archer would get +5 to hit, +2 damage. I think that's pretty reasonable considering how Dex already such a superior stat compared to Str.