Stuck on Stats, Need Help/Opinions Please

[TempyTheCleric]

This is my first time posting here so I apologize if I have done it wrong.

I am creating a rather manipulative Tiefling of Fierna (+1 WIS and +2CHA ) Knowledge Cleric (her goddess is a homebrew goddess of Intrigue and Indulgence) for an upcoming campaign. I'm prioritizing WIS, CON, and CHA since she will be a pure WIS build. My dilemma is that the DM let us roll 2 sets of stats and we could choose which to use. I would really like ANY feedback... what you would do with these stats or pros and cons of both.

12,14,16,15,15,16 and 8,18,17,15,13,10

This is what I am contemplating doing with either stat and how I would go about using my first 2 ASI's. On one hand, I hate negatives and love the more balanced set, on the other I like the two 20's by 4th level and higher saving throws as lower levels. Alternative options welcome, I'm coming to you guys cause I can't pull opinions from my fellow players and am truly stuck :( I only planned out the ASI's to try an help me decide what to take, I am fully aware that planning things like this out in advance hardly ever works because leveling is highly influenced by how the campaign is going.

Also, the campaign will be equal parts exploration, RP, and combat.

First:
12 12 12
14 14 14
16 16 16
15 15 15
16 18 20
18 18 18

Second:
08 08 08
15 15 15
13 13 14 + Resilient Con
10 10 10
18 20 20
20 20 20

[iTreeby]

I'd only take the first set for multiclass builds, take the 18 for your cleric and never look back

[th3g0dc0mp13x]

This is my first time posting here so I apologize if I have done it wrong.

I am creating a rather manipulative Tiefling of Fierna (+1 WIS and +2CHA ) Knowledge Cleric (her goddess is a homebrew goddess of Intrigue and Indulgence) for an upcoming campaign. I'm prioritizing WIS, CON, and CHA since she will be a pure WIS build. My dilemma is that the DM let us roll 2 sets of stats and we could choose which to use. I would really like ANY feedback... what you would do with these stats or pros and cons of both.

12,14,16,15,15,16 and 8,18,17,15,13,10

This is what I am contemplating doing with either stat and how I would go about using my first 2 ASI's. On one hand, I hate negatives and love the more balanced set, on the other I like the two 20's by 4th level and higher saving throws as lower levels. Alternative options welcome, I'm coming to you guys cause I can't pull opinions from my fellow players and am truly stuck :( I only planned out the ASI's to try an help me decide what to take, I am fully aware that planning things like this out in advance hardly ever works because leveling is highly influenced by how the campaign is going.

Also, the campaign will be equal parts exploration, RP, and combat.

First:
12 12 12
14 14 14
16 16 16
15 15 15
16 18 20
18 18 18

Second:
08 08 08
15 15 15
13 13 14 + Resilient Con
10 10 10
18 20 20
20 20 20

Manipulative knowledge cleric sounds like fun. I'd go with the second set for pretty much any build. even a +2 in your charisma stat will work well for what you want as long as you have proficiency and a +5 is probably overkill. the following is probably how I'd do it.

08 08 08
15 15 15
17 17 18 Resilient Con
10 10 10
19 20 20
15 16 16

[CTurbo]

This is my first time posting here so I apologize if I have done it wrong.

I am creating a rather manipulative Tiefling of Fierna (+1 WIS and +2CHA ) Knowledge Cleric (her goddess is a homebrew goddess of Intrigue and Indulgence) for an upcoming campaign. I'm prioritizing WIS, CON, and CHA since she will be a pure WIS build. My dilemma is that the DM let us roll 2 sets of stats and we could choose which to use. I would really like ANY feedback... what you would do with these stats or pros and cons of both.

12,14,16,15,15,16 and 8,18,17,15,13,10

This is what I am contemplating doing with either stat and how I would go about using my first 2 ASI's. On one hand, I hate negatives and love the more balanced set, on the other I like the two 20's by 4th level and higher saving throws as lower levels. Alternative options welcome, I'm coming to you guys cause I can't pull opinions from my fellow players and am truly stuck :( I only planned out the ASI's to try an help me decide what to take, I am fully aware that planning things like this out in advance hardly ever works because leveling is highly influenced by how the campaign is going.

Also, the campaign will be equal parts exploration, RP, and combat.

First:
12 12 12
14 14 14
16 16 16
15 15 15
16 18 20
18 18 18

Second:
08 08 08
15 15 15
13 13 14 + Resilient Con
10 10 10
18 20 20
20 20 20


I'd go with 8,18,17,15,13,10 and start 8 Str, 15 Dex, 18 Con, 10 Int, 18 Wis, 15 Cha and if that Cha is not high enough for you, bump +1 Dex and Cha at level 4. If that Cha is high enough for you, bump +2 Wis at level 4

I'd consider a couple Bard levels for Expertise in social skills + Inspiration dice

[Corran]

I would go with the second array, so I can start with a high wisdom, so there is less pressure to spend ASI's on it, so I can take some feats quicker. Feats that boost concentration (like warcaster and resilient con) are necessary, but there are also other feats that would fit a manipulative character, such as the actor feat that plays well with disguise self, or the observant feat, that boosts your already good perception and insight and allows you to read lips. And if the DM allows UA material, check on the diplomat feat (perhaps some others that I cant remember right now).

Warlock and sorcerer are classes that pair really well with both tiefling and playing a manipulative character. Mentioning it in case you want to look into it.

[Exocist]

This is my first time posting here so I apologize if I have done it wrong.

I am creating a rather manipulative Tiefling of Fierna (+1 WIS and +2CHA ) Knowledge Cleric (her goddess is a homebrew goddess of Intrigue and Indulgence) for an upcoming campaign. I'm prioritizing WIS, CON, and CHA since she will be a pure WIS build. My dilemma is that the DM let us roll 2 sets of stats and we could choose which to use. I would really like ANY feedback... what you would do with these stats or pros and cons of both.

12,14,16,15,15,16 and 8,18,17,15,13,10


How often are the stats themselves going to be relevant? Does your DM throw a lot of saving throws at you? Do they enforce things like Carrying Capacity (shouldn't really matter between 8 and 12 STR)? Does your DM make everyone use a wide variety of ability checks?

If your DM does throw situations where every ability score is relevant, I'd suggest going the first array.

15 CON (Res CON this)
12 STR
16 DEX
14 INT
15(+1=16) WIS
16(+2=18) CHA

First ASI should probably be used on Res CON, then boost Wis. You won't really suffer that much for having 18 instead of 20 CHA, or having lower WIS (it'll be a difference of 1 in spell attacks and save DCs - won't show up often).

While INT saves are rarer than Strength saves, Strength saves don't really have a huge consequence for failing (Usually just a grapple/restrain/whatever, you can still do your job) whereas INT saves are often incapacitation, which is why I put INT higher than STR.

If your DM does not, then

15 CON (Res CON this)
8 STR
13 DEX (You'll probably want a feat to +1 this somehow. See if your DM will let you take Resilient twice, then grab Resilient Dexterity)
10 INT
17 (+1 = 18) WIS
18 (+2 = 20) CHA

Again, first ASI on Res CON, second ASI on Wis, third ASI on War Caster or Res (DEX) if your DM allows you to take Resilient twice.


Warlock and sorcerer are classes that pair really well with both tiefling and playing a manipulative character. Mentioning it in case you want to look into it.

While the meme of Warlock (1-3) multiclassing well with everything likes to go around, it'd probably be better to drop cleric and go straight Charisma in that case. I don't think Cleric is really adding much.

[TempyTheCleric]

Manipulative knowledge cleric sounds like fun. I'd go with the second set for pretty much any build. even a +2 in your charisma stat will work well for what you want as long as you have proficiency and a +5 is probably overkill. the following is probably how I'd do it.

08 08 08
15 15 15
17 17 18 Resilient Con
10 10 10
19 20 20
15 16 16

She is a lot of fun! I absolutely love her. I like what you did with the second stat array but I think after a few days of thought I am going to do something with the first set! But I greatly appreciate the input!



I'd go with 8,18,17,15,13,10 and start 8 Str, 15 Dex, 18 Con, 10 Int, 18 Wis, 15 Cha and if that Cha is not high enough for you, bump +1 Dex and Cha at level 4. If that Cha is high enough for you, bump +2 Wis at level 4

I'd consider a couple Bard levels for Expertise in social skills + Inspiration dice

I have seriously considered paring her with Bard at around level 8ish. But who knows where the campaign will take me. Thanks for the advice!



...Feats that boost concentration (like warcaster and resilient con) are necessary, but there are also other feats that would fit a manipulative character, such as the actor feat that plays well with disguise self, or the observant feat, that boosts your already good perception and insight and allows you to read lips.

Warlock and sorcerer are classes that pair really well with both tiefling and playing a manipulative character. Mentioning it in case you want to look into it.

OMG OBSERVANT I will be getting that feat some how! I had completely forgotten about you genius you! Thank you so much! Also yes I have looked into a great many things for Volta but she is going to stay a Knowledge Cleric and I MAY dip Bard depending on the campaign.



How often are the stats themselves going to be relevant? Does your DM throw a lot of saving throws at you? Do they enforce things like Carrying Capacity (shouldn't really matter between 8 and 12 STR)? Does your DM make everyone use a wide variety of ability checks?

If your DM does throw situations where every ability score is relevant, I'd suggest going the first array.

15 CON (Res CON this)
12 STR
16 DEX
14 INT
15(+1=16) WIS
16(+2=18) CHA

First ASI should probably be used on Res CON, then boost Wis. You won't really suffer that much for having 18 instead of 20 CHA, or having lower WIS (it'll be a difference of 1 in spell attacks and save DCs - won't show up often).

While INT saves are rarer than Strength saves, Strength saves don't really have a huge consequence for failing (Usually just a grapple/restrain/whatever, you can still do your job) whereas INT saves are often incapacitation, which is why I put INT higher than STR.

If your DM does not, then

15 CON (Res CON this)
8 STR
13 DEX (You'll probably want a feat to +1 this somehow. See if your DM will let you take Resilient twice, then grab Resilient Dexterity)
10 INT
17 (+1 = 18) WIS
18 (+2 = 20) CHA

Again, first ASI on Res CON, second ASI on Wis, third ASI on War Caster or Res (DEX) if your DM allows you to take Resilient twice.


Thank you so much for your advice! Seriously thank you for laying out the DM styles and what not. That is an angle I had never looked at. My DM does like to make every ability score relevant. I have also been worried about WIS and INT saves with Volta in the upcoming campaign which is what I think has made me decide to go with the first set! I also think ill be taking your array advice! Thank you again!