Game-designing problem: Ranged unit attack roll in Large-scale Battle?

[JCRagnar]

Hello there!

I've run into a little homebrew game-designing issue and maybe you may have just the creative solution I'm looking for. I'll try to explain this as best as I can!

I've been trying to create an intelligent solution for a "regiment ranged attack roll" in a large-scale battle and I just cannot seem to find the creative mathematical solution for it.
To illustrate how our large scale battles system works when two melee infantry regiments meet:

- Regiment 1: d20 + basic modifiers: (Morale+Stamina+Cohesion+Experience)

vs.

- Regiment 2, same basic modifiers.

The same was supposed to work when a missile regiment is attacking another regiment (with slightly different modifiers):

The Regiment that is being shot at (Morale+Cohesion+Armor+Attention):

- Rough example: d20 + Morale(Steady 0) + Cohesion (Disciplined tight formation 2) + Armor (linen+shield 1+3) + Attention (Not engaged 0) = d20+6

vs.

- Ranged Regiment: (Missile+Accuracy+Weather+Range + Numbers)

- Rough example: d20 + Missile type (Bows&arrows 0) + Accuracy (High Accuracy 1) + Weather conditions (Zero wind 1) + Range ( -3) + Numbers (40 Archers) = d20-1 and... 40 Archers.

What do I do with those "40 Archers"? I'm quite lost and cannot find a creative way to solve this "math problem." I'd appreciate it so much if you could offer your insight! How do we make a reasonable roll so that the number of ranged units in a regiment also plays a role in that ranged attack roll?

I'd be thankful for any insights and ideas you can offer! :smallsmile:

P.S.: Our aim was also not to use HP (this way, casualties are counted only after the battle is over). What we do instead is that when a regiment loses the combat exchange, its modifiers change. So for example, an infantry regiment is being beaten by another infantry, it first loses stamina, then cohesion and morale, until the whole regiment breaks and flees from the field.

P.S.S.: We play on a square grid map, where one square equals 20-25 soldiers.

[noob]

Hello there!

I've run into a little homebrew game-designing issue and maybe you may have just the creative solution I'm looking for. I'll try to explain this as best as I can!

I've been trying to create an intelligent solution for a "regiment ranged attack roll" in a large-scale battle and I just cannot seem to find the creative mathematical solution for it.
To illustrate how our large scale battles system works when two melee infantry regiments meet:

- Regiment 1: d20 + basic modifiers: (Morale+Stamina+Cohesion+Experience)

vs.

- Regiment 2, same basic modifiers.

The same was supposed to work when a missile regiment is attacking another regiment (with slightly different modifiers):

The Regiment that is being shot at (Morale+Cohesion+Armor+Attention):

- Rough example: d20 + Morale(Steady 0) + Cohesion (Disciplined tight formation 2) + Armor (linen+shield 1+3) + Attention (Not engaged 0) = d20+6

vs.

- Ranged Regiment: (Missile+Accuracy+Weather+Range + Numbers)

- Rough example: d20 + Missile type (Bows&arrows 0) + Accuracy (High Accuracy 1) + Weather conditions (Zero wind 1) + Range ( -3) + Numbers (40 Archers) = d20-1 and... 40 Archers.

What do I do with those "40 Archers"? I'm quite lost and cannot find a creative way to solve this "math problem." I'd appreciate it so much if you could offer your insight! How do we make a reasonable roll so that the number of ranged units in a regiment also plays a role in that ranged attack roll?

I'd be thankful for any insights and ideas you can offer! :smallsmile:

P.S.: Our aim was also not to use HP (this way, casualties are counted only after the battle is over). What we do instead is that when a regiment loses the combat exchange, its modifiers change. So for example, an infantry regiment is being beaten by another infantry, it first loses stamina, then cohesion and morale, until the whole regiment breaks and flees from the field.

What is the result of a given regiment attack roll?
The number of archer shooting could possibly change the result rather than the attack roll.
for example ten times more archer than targetted people would make the opponent more likely to break down after being hit than if there was as many archers as targetted people.

[JCRagnar]

What is the result of a given regiment attack roll?
The number of archer shooting could possibly change the result rather than the attack roll.
for example ten times more archer than targetted people would make the opponent more likely to break down after being hit than if there was as many archers as targetted people.

The result is d20 + given modifiers, as described above.

It's an interesting idea, but can you put it into a math formula for the idea to be more concrete?

[aimlessPolymath]

I think he meant "after the attack roll, how are the effects resolved".

[JCRagnar]

Oh, right, sorry.

Just for clarification: 1 square on the grid = 1 regiment.
1 regiment on its own is weak and uneffective, therefore the regiments are always grouped in 3 = a line of 3 adjacent squares = The Formation.
(If there are only 2, they get "Weakened formation -1". If a regiment finds itself alone, not surrounded by adjacent friendly regiment, it gets another negative trait "Out of formation -3")
An attack on a regiment(1sq) in The Formation afflicts the whole formation, not just the square that was attacked. (- to ease up the game and make it more dynamic, so we don't need to micro-manage each regiment(1sq) on its own. The game wants you to stay in formation anyway, with few rare tactical exceptions.)

Now to the query!


I think he meant "after the attack roll, how are the effects resolved".

The effects are resolved based on DM's judgement - it's him who will manually adjust the regiment's/formation's modifiers (Morale/Cohesion/Stamina + some special traits, like "Facing the Sun -2").

So, when two infantries meet face-to-face, both equal in strength and experience, eager to fight and fully rested, the one that loses the roll gets the modifier adjustment:
- for example (and most likely, in this case) stamina gets from "Fresh = 0" to "Winded -1" and later even to "Exhausted -4".
- Or cohesion might worsen from "Cohesive 0" to "Disrupted -1".
- If the regiment (in or out of The Formation) finds itself flanked, its morale goes from "Steady 0" to "Shaken -1" to "Weavering - 3" to "Broken (units fleeing the field)" for each turn.
- Some missile attacks, like arrows in previous case, might lower regiment's morale or cohesion.
- With the lowered morale, a regiment might even be pushed from one square to another. If it finds itself not surrounded by adjacent friendly regiment, it gets "Out of formation -3" and worsens the chances of success in the next roll.

DM can get really creative with these. And so do the players, who can rouse their surrounding troops by speech and increase their morale, or use a spell to increase their stamina. Or scream at them full LOTR Gothmog style "Form ranks, you maggots! Form ranks!" to increase their cohesion. :smalltongue:

[Zombimode]

Hm, maybe I'm missing something but to me it seems you have figured it out already.

You do have a mechanic to resolve one "round" of melee action of one unit versus another, correct?
And in case of a melee engagement you do resolve it for each participating unit, correct?

If so, what is stopping you to do the same for ranged attackers?


So, lets say, we have 1 unit of swordsmen and 1 unit of skirmishers in army A, and 2 units of spearmen and 1 unit of archers in army B.

The swordsmen are engaging both units of spearmen that have formed up in a line. The skrimishers are throwing their javelin into the ranks of the spearmen accepting that they could hit their own guys.
The archers are targeting the skirmishers.

Assuming you have no initiative system, each action be resolved at the same time. That is: you make the rolls for one action, note down the results, and at the end of the turn, you apply all results to all units.
Once declared, the actions can affect each other. For instance, the swordsmen could get a morale penalty for being outnumberd AND for receiving friendly fire. The spearmen could get a bonus for outnumbering the swordsmen, and so on.
You would then make the rolls for each action: Spearmen 1 attack Swordsmen, with X result; Spearmen 2 attack Swordsmen, with Y result; Archers attack Skirmishers with Z result. Don't apply the results immediately. If the result of Spearmen 1 attack vs. the Swordmen was like "-3 stamina, -1 morale" this would not effect the Swordsmen attack roll this turn.

[sandmote]

The same was supposed to work when a missile regiment is attacking another regiment (with slightly different modifiers):

The Regiment that is being shot at (Morale+Cohesion+Armor+Attention):

- Rough example: d20 + Morale(Steady 0) + Cohesion (Disciplined tight formation 2) + Armor (linen+shield 1+3) + Attention (Not engaged 0) = d20+6

vs.

- Ranged Regiment: (Missile+Accuracy+Weather+Range + Numbers)

- Rough example: d20 + Missile type (Bows&arrows 0) + Accuracy (High Accuracy 1) + Weather conditions (Zero wind 1) + Range ( -3) + Numbers (40 Archers) = d20-1 and... 40 Archers.

What do I do with those "40 Archers"? I'm quite lost and cannot find a creative way to solve this "math problem." I'd appreciate it so much if you could offer your insight! How do we make a reasonable roll so that the number of ranged units in a regiment also plays a role in that ranged attack roll?



Where did "Numbers" and "40 archers" come from in the first place? If you have a large group of archers, shouldn't they be split into separate regiments making separate attack rolls?

For example, if one regiment is 20 people, have 20 archers make their attack roll:
Defenders: d20+(Morale+Cohesion+Armor+Attention)
Archers: d20+(Missile+Accuracy+Weather+Range)

Then, have the other 20 archers make their attack roll:
Defenders: d20+(Morale+Cohesion+Armor+Attention)
Archers: d20+(Missile+Accuracy+Weather+Range)

After all, you now have separate engagements between different regiments.

Now, this does mean that the archers fail individual rolls more often (missing the "Numbers" bonus), but it also means that large groups of archers are more consistent (with a growing number of chances to repeatedly harm a single enemy regiment) than having a single ever-growing regiment (having a single higher roll).