Elven Circle Leader

[cartejos]

Simple question, is there a way for an Elf to qualify for anything granting it the ability to be a circle leader?

It seems as the 3 classes that grant it (Red Wizard, Hathran, Halruuan Elder) all require you to be a human (Either directly, or through the qualifier feat)

Is there a way for the Elf to either qualify as being a human or bypass that restriction?

[Mike Miller]

This probably isn't what you want, but multiple casts of PaO should work.

[Goaty14]

A half-elf qualifies by counting as an elf and counting as a human.

[Covenant12]

Not easily. Think Mike Miller is on the right track, alter self/polymorph/PaO to human long enough for the DM to let you take the feat. Hope your DM doesn't apply the Complete Warrior rule to prerequisites, but most don't as it fails often and significantly. (dragon disciple)

Savage species has the ritual of association which specifically does this, but human is called out as not an option. Human heritage feat should work on the strictest DM's for half-elf, but full elves don't qualify.

Elves are skilled at all kinds of esoteric magic, an elven circle magic PrC makes perfect sense, but that's pure homebrew.

[SLOTHRPG95]

This probably isn't what you want, but multiple casts of PaO should work.

Why multiple? Elf to Human is just like Manticore to Shrew but moreso. Cast it once, you're permanently human (sans bonus feat).

[sleepyphoenixx]

There's the Circle Magic feat from Ghostwalk.
It's a lot weaker than FR Circle Magic (only up to CL 20, only Heighten up to 9th) but all you need to take it is be a divine caster and worship an obscure god.

[Mike Miller]

Why multiple? Elf to Human is just like Manticore to Shrew but moreso. Cast it once, you're permanently human (sans bonus feat).

It isn't permanent unless the change is dramatic. So if you go from Elf to Human, it isn't permanent. You revert back to your previous form when it ends. So, you use it once to become an human and then a second time to become an orc. The duration ends and you go back to being a human.

Then you get whatever you want from being a human and do the PaO trick again.

[Ramza00]

There's the Circle Magic feat from Ghostwalk.
It's a lot weaker than FR Circle Magic (only up to CL 20, only Heighten up to 9th) but all you need to take it is be a divine caster and worship an obscure god.

The obscure god is a Ghostwalk Campaign Setting only god, with him only being in Ghostwalk and no other setting (for Ghostwalk is a book that is creating an alternative setting besides having variant ghost rules.). He has only a 1 page description on page 83 of Ghostwalk. This obscure god's name is Galaedros

He shares lots of similarities (but also differences) with Corellon Larethian for in the Ghostwalk Campaign Setting Galaedros is the creator of the elves and is a greater god. He is a TN diety and her are some relevant stats for him.

Galaedros (Greater Diety)
The Wood God, the Sorrowful King
Alignment: Neutral
Domains: Animal, Earth, Plant
Favored Weapon: Quarterstaff
Symbol: A tree with sad human eyes
Portfolio: Nature, wood

http://archive.wizards.com/dnd/images/ghostwalk_gallery/tn_88566_620_30.jpg

Gaaedros backstory has some similarities to FR's Corellon Larethian for in FR Corellon former consort / girlfriend was Lolth when Lolth went under the name Araushnee.

But the details of the story with precisely how the betrayl happened and why they are rivals are different a little between Corellon and Galaedros (skips the FR back story but now Lolth / Araushnee and CL are opposed).

In Ghostwalk Gaaedros had a brother Hunael god of Invention and Culture. Gaaedros loved his work (stuff with the forest) and he had a wife Phaant. His wife was jealous that she was not getting enough attention compared to the plants so she killed Gaaedros' brother to get the attention she craved. Gaaedros decided to just stop talking to her. (Personal opinion, well you got lots of attention didn't you Phaant :smallsigh:)

Now Phaant goddess of luck, is NOW associated more with bad luck, inevitability, oppression, and doom. That said her church has some traits you may consider positive about the need to be vigilant, emphasizing the importance of planning and contigency, and reminding the people the need to sacrifice to the gods in order to prevent the doom.

Gaaedros though has the nuanced / true-neutral view that everything has a time and place, and death is part of life, but death also brings new life. Gaaedros is also big on the seasons, and learning from trees aka patience. Too much civilization though cuts you off from the natural cycle of things. Oh yeah Gaaedros gives power not just to clerics but also druids and rangers for his teachings are both open to all and applicable to all (and since Archivists are a 3.5 invention in theory they too can draw power from this 3.0 diety.)

So TLDR what I am saying he can easily be adapted into a non Ghostwalk setting. Gaaedros is CL in story / plot generally with elves and his rivals. But with the domains and alignment you would expect from Greyhawk's Obad-Hai or FR's Silvanus.

Thus your DM could make the Circle Magic feat from 3.0's Greyhawk just apply to a relevant diety, or give it to all deities / clerics. Nobody plays in Ghostwalks but some of the toys could be adapted to other settings.

[Malimar]

It isn't permanent unless the change is dramatic. So if you go from Elf to Human, it isn't permanent. You revert back to your previous form when it ends. So, you use it once to become an human and then a second time to become an orc. The duration ends and you go back to being a human.

Then you get whatever you want from being a human and do the PaO trick again.

You have it exactly backwards. It is permanent unless the change is dramatic. In this case, same kingdom, same class, same size, same intelligence, means the duration factor is 11, which is 9+, which is permanent.

[Mike Miller]

You have it exactly backwards. It is permanent unless the change is dramatic. In this case, same kingdom, same class, same size, same intelligence, means the duration factor is 11, which is 9+, which is permanent.

Hmmm that's what I get for not rereading it. My memory failed me

[Sleven]

If you read any of the FR campaign books (and even the DMG) they all make some mention of the fact that, in the realms, there are many organizations and spellcasters that use circle magic, and that it is not the exclusive provenance of those 2-3 organizations. Therefore, technically anyone in the realms (with the right fluff) can use circle magic.

Off the top of my head, I believe the Underdark book makes this clearer than most (as it doesn’t have any PrCs that use circle magic).

Being an elven high mage would be more than the right fluff for most DMs I’ve played in the realms with.

[Darth Ultron]

Is there a way for the Elf to either qualify as being a human or bypass that restriction?

The books always hinted at ''secret elf magic" and the circle magic in the rules is just set out as two examples of circle magic.

And, officially, they never got around to making a 3E/3.5E Forgotten Realms Elven Magic Book.

It does seem like elves, as well as others, should have circle magic. So there should be an elven circle magic feat.

You could add it to the feat Elven Spell Lore, for example. Or make a new feat.