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Danin
2007-09-11, 11:58 PM
No, not that kind... perv.

I'm talking about how every moderately main stream race out there seems to have a large degree of support (Some bordering on cult worship) and these cute little guys seem to serve only as fodder. Please, allow me to elaborate.

The Drow: With their evil tendencies and cool flavor coupled with great stats and an iconic hero, we'll be seeing Chaotic Good Drizzit clones well into 5th ed.

The Hobgoblins: Arguably the worst +1 level adjustment race available, this has caused many to flock to their defence, resulting in over optimized builds and encounters with militaristic Hobgoblin platoons with over-the-top contingency plans.

The Orc: A rather cliche foe but one with a core race, support from literature (Ooh R.A. Salvatore, how many non-standard icons will you create?) and a beefy strength score, a number of Barbarians suddenly have a new friend.

The Kobold: The worse of them all, the Kobold has developed a following the belies their abilities. With the appearence of Trucker's Kobolds and hundreds of horror stories about how well planned Kobolds and a few traps have defeated X level characters everyone and their dog seems to think these creatures gods amoung the under-dog.

With this in mind I want to see all the support for one of the coolest races around, the Goblins. Lets hear some stories about how your goblin Rogue pulled off a great heist or the local band of goblins defeated your 12th level fighter. Got some great goblin warboss you've been dieing to share with the world? Nows your chance! Goblins patrons of the world, unite!

(I think I may have overdone that last part a bit)

tainsouvra
2007-09-12, 12:04 AM
No, not that kind... perv. Too late, I already failed my sanity check.

Redcloak aside, I would like to see a few cool goblin stories myself.

Nerd-o-rama
2007-09-12, 12:05 AM
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots.html
http://www.goblinscomic.com/

You are not alone in your like of goblins.

Besides the above comics, they are, in fact, my favorite monster humanoids. Intelligent, organized (if less so than their oranger cousins), actually useful as characters (for stealth optimization, only whisper gnomes are better at LA 0), and believable as part of a larger, "civilized" society, especially in association with their Hobgoblin and Bugbear brethren (see Darguun in Eberron).

Also,
http://saratrice.com/erfshirts/

MrNexx
2007-09-12, 12:22 AM
I actually proposed a book about Goblinoids and Orcs to WotC... about a week before they announced "Nine Months to Fourth Edition!"

So... yeah.

Oh, hey, goblinoid love! (http://rpg-crank.livejournal.com/9409.html)

horseboy
2007-09-12, 01:03 AM
http://saratrice.com/erfshirts/large_img/SOLIDARITY_design_front.jpg

Apparently you're not the only one.

Danin
2007-09-12, 01:46 AM
Come on people, share in the Goblin love!

That came out wrong...

I happen to be rolling up a goblin Marshal based of Sun Tzu.

SadisticFishing
2007-09-12, 01:49 AM
I like kobolds. They're cute and cuddly and more awesome than goblins will ever be. Nya nya.

That being said, Hobgoblins actually have a decent amount of story behind them. Well, not exactly behind them so much as in front of them, but they center in lots of things - the ToB springs to mind first.

Regular goblins? They're stupid and small and Chaotic Evil. Though I do agree there should be a Races of the Horde or something book with goblins, orcs, and possibly giants, I can understand how they're not the top of WotC's list.

Kurald Galain
2007-09-12, 05:53 AM
I rather like lizardfolk, but they appear to be rare in fiction.

Serenity
2007-09-12, 07:26 AM
I just got the first issue of Pathfinder; the first adventure presented centers around goblins, who it slightly reinvents as creatures by turns comic and frighteningly sadistic--madcap little bumblers, but also frightening inventive creatures with a taste for human flesh and an abject hatred of dogs and horses. When you fight their chieftain, he's riding a giant gecko!

AKA_Bait
2007-09-12, 07:46 AM
Regular goblins? They're stupid and small and Chaotic Evil. Though I do agree there should be a Races of the Horde or something book with goblins, orcs, and possibly giants, I can understand how they're not the top of WotC's list.

Erm... they are not stupid (10 int, average human) or Chaotic Evil (Neutral Evil, actually) but they are small. 1 out of 3 ain't bad I guess.

psychoticbarber
2007-09-12, 08:11 AM
I like kobolds. They're cute and cuddly and more awesome than goblins will ever be.

Cute...and...cuddly? Interesting.

As far as monsters go, I don't often use them. I DM a lot of Urban campaigns, where your worst enemy is probably the guy sitting next to you at dinner, with whom you must make pleasant conversation before you try to break into his house and assassinate him (later that evening, of course).

GimliFett
2007-09-12, 08:45 AM
I love gobbers! They're just cool! In fact I'm currently playing a second level Goblin Ranger (see Ozzgar the Wolf in my sig) in a PbP. He's pretty cool! And Scottish! First two rounds of combat in the game I rapid shotted two arrows into a gibberling and dropped it. 2 Rounds, 4 Arrows, 2 Dead Gibberlings. Then the dice roller crapped on me and now I haven't even rolled above 8 (with +6's and +4's), I think. I think they should NOT have a Charisma penalty, btw. Dex for Str is plenty penalty.

Leon
2007-09-12, 09:02 AM
Goblin Love (http://yafgc.shipsinker.com/index.php?strip_id=63/)

Morty
2007-09-12, 11:10 AM
Preach it, brother!
I'm incurable goblin fan in all settings and systems. It's because they're small, sneaky and always treated as cannon fodder or slaves to bigger monsters. Out of typical monstrous races goblins get the less stuff. I'm seriously considering playing evil(or good) goblin paladin riding on worg, and in my campaign settings goblins hold the equal place among all other sentinent races.

bosssmiley
2007-09-12, 11:52 AM
Mad love for Goblins right here! Everything from the Henson puppets of "Labyrinth", to the Gobbos and Gretchin of Warhammer, to the LOTR Moria Goblins, to the Rokugani bakemono, to Warcraft's mad gadgeteers ("I laugh in the face of danger! Aaaaaarghahaha!!!), to Pathfinder's trash-stealing dogslicers.

Goblins are the Eddie and Richie (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qk0_qwb1PwY) of the D&D world: the sneaky, grotty, slapstick-loving, garbage-eating little guys who can't get a break, but never give up.

Crazy_Uncle_Doug
2007-09-12, 12:02 PM
o/~ Goblin love! Yeah (Oh-we-oh-we-oh)
Girl I wanna know ya! (Know ya!) o/~

:smallbiggrin:

I couldn't resist. Anyhow, goblins are a classic. Played well, they can be vicious, nasty and give the party enough nightmares that they are glad they've moved on to CR5 critters.

I have sympathy for the goblins. After all ...

o/~ It's not easy, being green ... o/~

mostlyharmful
2007-09-12, 12:06 PM
I love throwing in goblin encouters at high levels, Kobolds work for this as well. Just let them try to steam-roller the pathetic CR3 gribbly, then hit them with its 14 levels of wizard.... MWA-HA-HA:smallbiggrin:

Lord Tataraus
2007-09-12, 12:30 PM
Hey goblins are amazing, especially the jungle goblin (Go climb speed)! We should make a user group called Optimistic Goblin Lovers. I'd join.

GimliFett
2007-09-12, 12:35 PM
Hey goblins are amazing, especially the jungle goblin (Go climb speed)! We should make a user group called Optimistic Goblin Lovers. I'd join.

I'd be in, too! :smallcool:

Morty
2007-09-12, 12:38 PM
Needs better name. Universal Goblin Solidarity?:smallbiggrin:

Crazy_Uncle_Doug
2007-09-12, 12:39 PM
I just got the first issue of Pathfinder; the first adventure presented centers around goblins, who it slightly reinvents as creatures by turns comic and frighteningly sadistic--madcap little bumblers, but also frightening inventive creatures with a taste for human flesh and an abject hatred of dogs and horses. When you fight their chieftain, he's riding a giant gecko!

I liked that as well. The art was well done, too, giving them a slightly different look. The goblins in that book are great. They'd be downright cute if they weren't so vicious and sociopathic.

Chaos Bringer
2007-09-12, 12:41 PM
I'm starting up a WoW campaign and goblins are unstoppable as tinkers. They get tons of extra feats in their class and get double range increments on throwing anything that explodes! Goblins are the champs in WoW!

GimliFett
2007-09-12, 12:42 PM
Needs better name. Universal Goblin Solidarity?:smallbiggrin:

You mean Interversal? :smallsmile:

Crazy_Uncle_Doug
2007-09-12, 12:47 PM
Another good universe for Goblins is the Iron Kingdoms. Gobbers for the win.

Morty
2007-09-12, 12:56 PM
You mean Interversal? :smallsmile:

Possibly, yeah. Inerversal Goblin Solidarity then.


I'm starting up a WoW campaign and goblins are unstoppable as tinkers. They get tons of extra feats in their class and get double range increments on throwing anything that explodes! Goblins are the champs in WoW!

Yep, goblins in Warcraft universe are awesome.

GimliFett
2007-09-12, 01:09 PM
Another good universe for Goblins is the Iron Kingdoms. Gobbers for the win.

Yeah, I do love me some gobbers. And boggers, but mostly gobbers. :smallbiggrin: IK FTW! :smallbiggrin:

Crazy_Uncle_Doug
2007-09-12, 01:17 PM
Gobber Bodgers and Bogrin just make that world so cool. That and the giant, artillery-firing robots -- That are repaired by Gobber Bodgers!! YES!

GimliFett
2007-09-12, 01:20 PM
Gobber Bodgers and Bogrin just make that world so cool. That and the giant, artillery-firing robots -- That are repaired by Gobber Bodgers!! YES!

Yes, indeedy! I have sooo wanted to play a Gobber Warcaster... :smallfrown:

Crazy_Uncle_Doug
2007-09-12, 01:22 PM
How cool would that be. He'd be the only warcaster that can ride his own warjacks!

GimliFett
2007-09-12, 01:24 PM
Oooo. I could see that as one of his special abilities!
"Giddyap!"

I'm gonna hafta contact Privateer Press... :smallcool:

Crazy_Uncle_Doug
2007-09-12, 01:27 PM
Now I have visions of a warjack with a chaingun mount atop, with a Gobber-gunner there, getting a 360-degree field of fire atop his steam-powered buddy.

Also, he's a ninja!

GimliFett
2007-09-12, 01:28 PM
Now I have visions of a warjack with a chaingun mount atop, with a Gobber-gunner there, getting a 360-degree field of fire atop his steam-powered buddy.

Also, he's a ninja!

And a pirate...er Privateer! Gotta be Cygnaran, too.

Xuincherguixe
2007-09-12, 01:32 PM
You make it sound like being vicious psychopaths doesn't make them more cute.

Fhaolan
2007-09-12, 01:45 PM
Yay gobbos!

Goblins killed gnomes *and* halflings in my campaign and took their stuff. Much better. :smallsmile:

GimliFett
2007-09-12, 01:51 PM
Yay gobbos!

Goblins killed gnomes *and* halflings in my campaign and took their stuff. Much better. :smallsmile:

I actually really like gnomes, though I hate halflings. I say keep gnomes, but ice the halflings and kobolds. BOOO KOBOLDS! There're too many kobold-lovers out there! Gobbers unite! :smallbiggrin:

Crazy_Uncle_Doug
2007-09-12, 01:55 PM
Unfortunately, the kobolds have two celebrity spokesmen: Meepo and Deekin. The Goblins need to get a couple of loveable mascots that will bring them to the forefront again!

GimliFett
2007-09-12, 01:58 PM
Who better than Ozralatunahunanhek* the Warcaster? Oh, and all of his warjacks are "Go-Fasta Red!" Screw Cygnaran Blue!


*translates to: always ready toolmaker.

Crazy_Uncle_Doug
2007-09-12, 02:01 PM
With racing stripes?

Nerd-o-rama
2007-09-12, 02:09 PM
I dunno. Between Redcloak and Complains-of-Names and co., I'd say they've got pretty good representation in the comics world, at least. Now...we need a sympathetic goblin NPC in a published module. And not a spaz like Meepo or Deekin. Hmm...a neutral-greedy Goblin information broker would make a nice personality in Sharn, next time I run an adventure there. Or a goblin slum community caught in a turf war between Clan Boromar and the Dhaask or whatever they're called. Hm. Goblins are probably reasonably well-integrated into other communities too, particularly in northeastern Breland and Zilargo. It'd be easy to have a goblin blacksmith or barkeep or wandering adventurer to give plothooks or assistance.

Morty
2007-09-12, 02:17 PM
I dunno. Between Redcloak and Complains-of-Names and co., I'd say they've got pretty good representation in the comics world, at least

That's because they don't get any other representation. It's the same as when people make fun out of elves or Drizzt clones.
Eberron is the only setting where goblins are more than cannon fodder for good-aligned adventurers.

GimliFett
2007-09-12, 02:20 PM
Well, there was Ginlimj (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fc/fc20000101a), the goblin vampire from D&D Fight Club. He's okay, but I think we could do better. And Snig the Axe (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mi/20060330a).

Paragon Badger
2007-09-12, 02:28 PM
Unfortunately, the kobolds have two celebrity spokesmen: Meepo and Deekin. The Goblins need to get a couple of loveable mascots that will bring them to the forefront again!

I rather liked Grovel, the newest janitor in that waterdeep tavern.. Moreso than Deekin, actually.

"So much blood, blood, blood! It's not Grovel's though, yes yes yes!"

"Grovel take break now? ...Yes? ...Maybe? ...Maybe? ..............Nooo."

"Ooh, crunchy... Grovel keep this one."

Crazy_Uncle_Doug
2007-09-12, 03:41 PM
Grovel was cool.

"It's not that dirty, no. But boss says clean so Grovel clean, clean clean."

"Dead Drow. Dead Drow. Dead Drow. Good. Grovel hate Drow."

GimliFett
2007-09-12, 03:52 PM
Sounds cute and all, but too stereotyped to be our cool Banner-Waver!

What's he from? The new Undermountain?

Crazy_Uncle_Doug
2007-09-12, 03:59 PM
Neverwinter Nights expansion: Hordes of the Underdark.

You meet him early in the game, and if you are nice, he sticks around the inn for all of the first chapter. He doesn't appear in later chapters.

GimliFett
2007-09-12, 04:02 PM
Neverwinter Nights expansion: Hordes of the Underdark.

You meet him early in the game, and if you are nice, he sticks around the inn for all of the first chapter. He doesn't appear in later chapters.

I've played all of 30 minutes of NWN. I didn't have a capable computer at the time, let alone the impetus to do anything about it. I had my X-Box and my GameCube and I was happy. Besides, after Ruins of Myth Drannor, I was done with D&D-based rpgs of any kind. Ugh. They promised soooo much and delivered soooo little. :smallfrown:

What happened to him? He sounds like the kind of fun you'd like to see throughout the game.

Crazy_Uncle_Doug
2007-09-12, 04:19 PM
Ruins of Myth Drannor was by far the worst of the recent string of DnD games. NWN was better by comparison. Combat, for example, mixed the initiative system with real time, so you go through rounds of combat, everyone gets a turn, but it's animated and stuff is happening. Even better, you don't have to sit and wait through several long seconds of zombie walking.

Anyhow! That's off topic. Grovel was really just plot exposition. You go into Undermountain, and he appears and in conversation reveals that Halaster has gone missing. Once the conversation is done, you can offer to send him up to the Yawning Portal Inn. There, he gets a job cleaning the basement and he says the above quotes. Chapter two, you're stuck in the Underdark and Grovel is back at the inn, still. So he's not seen again.

Though he might have died when Mephistopheles takes a saunter through Waterdeep, I like to think Grovel is cunning and cowardly enough to get away before trouble comes.

Goodnight, Grovel, wherever you are.

Nerd-o-rama
2007-09-12, 04:23 PM
Grovel and Deekin (kobold bard/professional crony from the same game, if you haven't played it) should have a buddy adventure of some kind.

Crazy_Uncle_Doug
2007-09-12, 04:29 PM
Road Trip!

Lord Tataraus
2007-09-12, 05:18 PM
Needs better name. Universal Goblin Solidarity?:smallbiggrin:

I guess, though I liked the acronym with mine. I will seriously start this if enough people are interested. And if we could agree on a name. I haven't been able to make a poll before (there is supposed to be some option some where i can't find it) so if some one wants to poll for a name that would be good, or we could do so informally here.

Chaos Bringer
2007-09-12, 06:19 PM
Needs better name. Universal Goblin Solidarity?:smallbiggrin:

I like this TLA better, I'm easily confused enough without another OGL out there.

tannish2
2007-09-12, 06:26 PM
small size +1 to hit AND 30 foot base move speed...

shaddy_24
2007-09-12, 06:48 PM
I'm going to go pretty far as DM to get rid of the "fodder goblins". Any of my players out there (you know who you are!), don't read this next part, major spoilers.

My players are currently at level 2. I currently have 2 groups (one of 4 and one of 5), so only one group will actually see this. At the start, they had to escape from the starting town when the mayor used the army and the gullible citizenry to evict the wizard's guild and all the major religeons to get rid of any groups that could oppose her power. The reason she was able to get an army strong enough to do this was because the town has had to deal with a lot of goblin raids and cults. One group of players will come across a goblin ambush, mysteriously led by a human (and creatures that the mayor had under her power). The guy will order the goblins to stand aside and not interfere. When the players weaken him and his forces enough, the goblins act, attacking him and helping the players.
It turns out that the mayor gained control of this goblin tribe (and several others) and used forced them to raid the town so she would have an excuse to build up the army (she also paid off the cultists). The leader of the goblins (a level 3-4 fighter) asks them for help freeing his tribe from the mayors power. The players have the option of freeing all the goblin tribes, taking down the mayors followers and any goblins that side with them. When this is all over, the goblins make an allegeance to the nearby towns and both groups end up better off because of it. So my goblins are going to be good guys that work with the PCs if they play it right.

Miraqariftsky
2007-09-12, 10:10 PM
Y'know, I am rather surprised that nobody has yet mentioned the goblinoids of Eberron, especially the Heirs of Dhakaan.

Nerd-o-rama
2007-09-12, 10:13 PM
Man, I wrote a whole long ramble about Eberron on page one, and you skimmed past it? I'm hurt, man. Hurt.

Although I focused on goblins in post-Galifar society, rather than Darguuni culture.

Paragon Badger
2007-09-12, 11:13 PM
Goblin commando rogues.

+4 bonus to move silently? Yeah!

Mike_Lemmer
2007-09-12, 11:27 PM
Combining the best of Eberron & WoW goblins, I've a made a goblin duskblade that moonlights as a warforged mechanic. I even homebrewed some tiefling blood in him, so he'd have enough resistance to survive the inevitable explosions.

GimliFett
2007-09-13, 08:07 AM
I'm going to go pretty far as DM to get rid of the "fodder goblins". Any of my players out there (you know who you are!), don't read this next part, major spoilers.
<snip spoiler>

That's neat, Shaddy! Reminds be of why I like Eberron so much: the lack of fixed alignments. It really opens up goblins to the world. :smallsmile:

Miraqariftsky
2007-09-13, 08:08 AM
Man, I wrote a whole long ramble about Eberron on page one, and you skimmed past it? I'm hurt, man. Hurt.

Although I focused on goblins in post-Galifar society, rather than Darguuni culture.

Very sorry, bub. I was rushing. Sorry.

Went back. You mean your 1:05 post?

Wai-wai-wait a sec, aren't the Darguuns actually post-Galifar? Didn't the Dhakaan of old collapse some six thousand years before humans even came to Khorvaire? Wasn't their eventual decline the result of protracted warfare with the daelkyr and their minions from Xoriat?

Eh? Sorry. My primary exposure is from the novels. Have ye read Don Bassingthwaite, ol' chap?

Ashtar
2007-09-13, 08:33 AM
I love goblins!

We ran a reverse dungeon, with every player controlling either 3 1st level warrior goblins or 1 classed goblin L2. It was really great and most of my players still remember their goblins' names two years later.

Also, for several one-shot games, I brought Wysiwyg, a goblin cleric level 10. I also had fun with Wysiweg, his sister, which was a rogue/wizard mix.

Miraqariftsky
2007-09-13, 08:42 AM
I dunno. Between Redcloak and Complains-of-Names and co., I'd say they've got pretty good representation in the comics world, at least. Now...we need a sympathetic goblin NPC in a published module. And not a spaz like Meepo or Deekin. Hmm...a neutral-greedy Goblin information broker would make a nice personality in Sharn, next time I run an adventure there. Or a goblin slum community caught in a turf war between Clan Boromar and the Dhaask or whatever they're called. Hm. Goblins are probably reasonably well-integrated into other communities too, particularly in northeastern Breland and Zilargo. It'd be easy to have a goblin blacksmith or barkeep or wandering adventurer to give plothooks or assistance.

Follow-up:

Hob/goblin N/PCs you might like to take a look at: (They're not from any "modules" as you'd have wanted, but bookstores in my part of the world don't cater to falk like us much)

WARNING: BOOK SPOILERS APLENTY!

Ekhaas--- a duur'khaala of the Kech Volaar. Brought back knowledge lost to the Gatekeepers of the present age. She aided in the defeat of the daelkyr lord, The Master of Silence and his copper dragon minion, Dah'mir.
(See Books II and III of Bassingthwaite's Dragon Below trilogy)

Rhazaala--- the "goblin girl" of Malleo's Gate in Sharn. Once served as lieutenant and emissary of Lord Kasslak, The Stone Eye, the peacekeeping medusa. Itinerant rogue and thief. Recently employed in the skycoach trade. Aided in the deposing of Biish the Biter.
(See "The City of Towers" and "The Killing Song")

Biish the Biter--- hobgoblin underground boss in Sharn, otherwise known as Ja'sharaat. He wrested power from the half-orc boss, Natrac One-hand and abolished the gladiator arena in Malleon's Gate. Expanded enterprises into smuggling and assassinations, besides regular pocketpicking. Currently deceased.
(See "The Killing Song")

Lhesh Daashor Taruuzh--- ancient artificer, once lord of Taruuzh Kraat (currently Tzaryan Keep). It was he who created the Binding Stones and the Grieving Trees. Forged the legendary byeshk sword, "Wrath" and led the assault against daelkyr positions in The Battle of Moths.
(See "The Grieving Tree")


Goblins are probably reasonably well-integrated into other communities too, particularly in northeastern Breland and Zilargo.

Are not goblinoid mercenaries regularly employed by House Deneith?

Chaos Bringer
2007-09-13, 01:03 PM
Bringing this question over from another thread. Who would win in a fight between 100 Goblins and 100 Kobolds? Insert Pirate/Ninja classes as unnecessary.

Morty
2007-09-13, 01:10 PM
Bringing this question over from another thread. Who would win in a fight between 100 Goblins and 100 Kobolds? Insert Pirate/Ninja classes as unnecessary.

Depends hugely on circumstances, tactics used, etc. Overall goblins seem like less pathetic race, but kobolds would have an upper hand if underground. Even with this however, goblins win by virtue of being goblins against kobolds.
Frankly, in my campaign setting goblins killed not only gnomes but also drow and kobolds in order to take their stuff.

GimliFett
2007-09-13, 01:15 PM
Bringing this question over from another thread. Who would win in a fight between 100 Goblins and 100 Kobolds? Insert Pirate/Ninja classes as unnecessary.

Is this in an open field? No preparation prior to the battle? Goblins. If there was any time allowed, I dunno... Gobber scouts pro'lly got better info from recon, so would know most of the spots where traps were placed... I think I'd still go gobbers! FTW!

Chaos Bringer
2007-09-13, 01:32 PM
Inject whatever circumstance you want. Make it entertaining. I still think Goblins would win by virtue of awesomeness, but any Kobold lovers out there try and come up with something.

trajan
2007-09-13, 01:42 PM
Inject whatever circumstance you want. Make it entertaining. I still think Goblins would win by virtue of awesomeness, but any Kobold lovers out there try and come up with something.

3 words: Favored Class: Sorcerer.
Get a big enough group and there should be some arcane win available to the kobolds.
Besides, do the BattleStar Galactica people pray to goblins? No. They worship their Kobol Lords.

GimliFett
2007-09-13, 01:53 PM
3 words: Favored Class: Sorcerer.
Get a big enough group and there should be some arcane win available to the kobolds.
Besides, do the BattleStar Galactica people pray to goblins? No. They worship their Kobol Lords.

I return 3 words to you: Favored Class: Rogue. Sneak attack from flank much? :smallbiggrin:

Chaos Bringer
2007-09-13, 01:59 PM
I return 3 words to you: Favored Class: Rogue. Sneak attack from flank much? :smallbiggrin:

Oh yeah! you cant magic missle what you cant see! Just for good measure, lets say that each has a well balanced and prepared army. They know who their fighting, though not necessarily where. If you can justify it, throw in some catapults or trebuches(sp?).

Crazy_Uncle_Doug
2007-09-13, 03:49 PM
I'd go for the Goblins for similar reasons ... Favored Class: Rogue.

Let's take a look at raids into enemy lairs.

Kobolds enter Goblin Lair. Traps take out several (and this isn't too hard with low hit points). They make a noisy mess, and the remainder are taken out from behind by sneaky goblins.

Goblins enter Kobold Lair. Goblin Rogues take out Kobold traps, hide in shadows, and backstab the kobolds sent to re-arm said traps. Also, they probably eat the kobolds. Or skin the dead kobolds to make kobold disguise that fool dim-witted not-dead-yet kobolds.

Advantage: Goblins!

Leon
2007-09-16, 09:33 PM
Gobber Bodgers are made of Win

Tiki Snakes
2007-09-17, 06:40 AM
Gobbo army vs Kobold army; Sure, the gobbo's aren't incredibly out-classed, and all, but you're forgetting something.

Ritual of the Dragon?

The army of Kobolds doesn't just contain many sorcerers, (being favoured class, and many spellcasters soon overpower many non-spellcasters, lets face it.)

It also contains many, many kobolds of at least lvl1. and any kobold of at least level 1 could very well have undergone the Ritual of the Dragon, thing, from the Races of the Dragon book.
Can you say, an entire army of whatever class, also each capable of casting, at will, a level 1 sorcerer spell without worrying about any kind of matirial componant? several hundred Rays of Enfeeblement? Mage Armour? Magic Missiles at Character-level as Caster-Level? Expeditiously Retreating/charging Kobold skirmishers?

Post races of the dragon, Kobolds reeeaally have the edge. Not to mention Dragonwrought Kobolds, potentially with the ability to fly under their own power, or any of the other neat dragon-related tricks...

Tobrian
2007-09-17, 02:11 PM
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots.html
http://www.goblinscomic.com/

You are not alone in your like of goblins.

Also: http://yafgc.shipsinker.com/
Yet Another Fantasy Gamer Comic.
Warning for Americans and puritans: Occasional nudity. Implied sex. Not "family friendly". Nothing hardcore though.
Underdark races. First edition orcs with snouts, oh well. I like the bat-ears on the goblinoids. Cute. :smallwink: And huzzah, some real Greek-myth harpies with actual feathered wings, not the mockeries I see in the D&D monster manual.

Renrik
2007-09-17, 06:18 PM
I'd have to kill myself for not posting on this.

On the forums here, in The Town, i roleplayed a bunch of goblin revolutionaries trying to create a free goblin state for mutual defense against encroaching dwarves and humans. It started out as a race riot, then turned into a cultural movement, built up into an underground insurgency, went public, and eventually created the Free Federations of Goblin States. I roleplayed at least 20 named goblins and a crapload of unnamed goblins in that one. The final battle was epic. I have always loved goblins, and roleplaying that made me love them all the more. I eventually had a goblin join up with the Gufipolice in the Town (stopped rping in Town about 4 or 5 months ago, though.)

In my campain, goblinoids, especially goblins, pose the primary threat to human lands. On one hand, they have hordes and hordes of troops. On the other hand, they have a culture that can train those troops to take advantage of what they are good at. Goblinoids in my campain are typified by extremely nasty light infantry and worg riding cavalry on the open feild (backed up by squads of hobgoblin infantry to provide heavy combat support.). their campains are usually typified by small skirmishes with light troops to chip away at resources before outmaneuvering, surrounding, and destroying enemy forces. Also, when attacking cities, they have sappers and infiltrators, and goblin engineres bring forth advanced seige equipment.

Slavery and the goblins. Goblins seem to love slavery. They enslave intruders, prisoners, eachother... they love it. Goblins in my campain are very much into the slave trade. They make the slaves work themselves to death in the mines. A goblin is a lot more intimidating when you're unarmed and mostly naked and he's got a whip and loads of backup.

I have a lot of awsome goblin warlords in my campain. Some of the best villains and nemisises are goblins. You know Aggratanath, from the BoVD? Yeah, he rocks. Also, the Io-Rach tribe. Same book.

I am making a second campain that's essentially a rip-off of Sharn, Ravnica, Coruscant, Taris, etc. all at once. Goblins make up a huge part of the slum-dweller and criminal population, as they did in that one steampunk campain I once played.

But the main reason to love goblins?

They ride worgs. Freakin' awesome.