Is the air a legal target for an opponent?

[keeper2161]

Like can I just swing at the air. Like full on attack the air. Is there any pathfinder definition of what is considered an opponent?

[zlefin]

for what purposes does it need to count as an opponent?
I don't think the air counts as an "opponent" for most rules based purposes.
but you most certainly can swing your weapons around; in particular that can happen when facing an invisible opponent, and you just try attacking a square where you think they might be.

[keeper2161]

Flicker Strike (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/path-of-war/disciplines-and-maneuvers/veiled-moon-maneuvers/#TOC-Flicker-Strike)

[zlefin]

tough call. I'm not too familiar with rulings on PoW cases.


this segment:
"Target or Targets: Most maneuvers affect a specific creature or object (or more than one creature or object) that you designate as your target or targets. You must be able to see or touch the target, and you must specifically choose the target or targets."

fuond in
https://www.d20pfsrd.com/path-of-war/systems-and-use/

would seem to indicate you can't. that ability requires a creature as the target, and the air isn't a creature. and the requirement to be able to see the target also wouldn't really apply, as you can't see the air (or any creature it could hypothetically contain).

but I could easily see a DM ruling otherwise.

[keeper2161]

I am going to be honest. I am trying to find work around for dimensional agility. That way I don't have to sink 4-5 feats into martial training.

[Ramza00]

Someone remind me how it is in pathfinder but you can designitate a square as a target in 3.5. Doing so adds a 50% miss chance of hitting the thing inside the square just like you were blinded or in an area of darkness or other forms of total concealment (which get the same 50% miss chance but slightly different source.)

Normally this means you target squares parallel to the ground but you could also target squares in the arir.

Furthermore in 3.5 it is actually pointed out in the data books that sometimes wizards with spells with wide areas like fireball aim the spell a little above the ground to make the spell area smaller with the 3 dimensional sphere and which squares are affected.

For example if you are doing 5 foot squares and not hexes fireballs 20-ft radius spread is 44 squares. But by targeting higher above the ground you can affect less creatures such as doing a 10-ft radius spread which hits 12 squares, or even higher and hitting a 5ft radius spread and thus only 4 squares.

[Elricaltovilla]

You can target the ground with an attack. It has AC 5.

[Psyren]

You can target a square with some attacks, but declaring a square to be your enemy is a bit much for any of them I'd say.

[Sayt]

The target of the maneuver is one creature. Not enemy. The air is not a planet by any sensical definition of creature, nor is the air. Your character is, though.

[Crake]

The target of the maneuver is one creature. Not enemy. The air is not a planet by any sensical definition of creature, nor is the air. Your character is, though.

Yeah, this isn't about being able to attack a square or not. You couldn't use this ability on an invisible creature, as you can't see them, even if you're 100% sure you know what square they're in. "The air" is at best an object, but it is definitely not a creature, as it lacks a wisdom and charisma score (the two required features that differentiate between an object and a creature).

Note that the ability doesn't require targetting an "opponent" just a creature. You could use it to teleport to an ally, forgo your melee attack, then teleport away. The designation of "enemy" or "foe" is mostly irrelevant for targeting purposes, as you can designate anyone as your friend or foe at any time, it's more for effect that cancel on hostile actions, such as invisibility.

[Bohandas]

can someone get a link to that "I'm attacking the darkness" skit

[Deophaun]

can someone get a link to that "I'm attacking the darkness" skit

Here you go:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-leYc4oC83E

[Gallowglass]

DM: "Okay, what are you going to do, its your initiative."

Player: "I'm going to attack the air elemental in the square ahead of me!"

DM: "... there is no air elemental...."

Player: "DON'T TELL ME WHAT I CAN DO!" *rolls d20 wildly*!

[Erit]

Fading Leap is the same level of maneuver and exists for the exact purpose you're trying to apply to Flicker Strike. I forget where the line is exactly, but it's explicitly called in RAW that you can't use strikes out of combat, because if you could then a single Silver Crane maneuver renders out-of-combat healing completely trivial as early as 1st level.

[Elricaltovilla]

Fading Leap is the same level of maneuver and exists for the exact purpose you're trying to apply to Flicker Strike. I forget where the line is exactly, but it's explicitly called in RAW that you can't use strikes out of combat, because if you could then a single Silver Crane maneuver renders out-of-combat healing completely trivial as early as 1st level.

I'd be really impressed if you could find your source for that claim given that that's never been the case for as long as I can remember. And even if it was, out of combat healing definitely would not have been the justification for it, as none of the developers give it much weight or importance.

[Erit]

I'd be really impressed if you could find your source for that claim given that that's never been the case for as long as I can remember. And even if it was, out of combat healing definitely would not have been the justification for it, as none of the developers give it much weight or importance.

Is that so? Must be thinking ToB then, my mistake. That or I'm completely out of my mind.

[Elricaltovilla]

Is that so? Must be thinking ToB then, my mistake. That or I'm completely out of my mind.

Happens all the time. I went and reread the systems and use section again to double check just in case, but there's no mention of limiting maneuvers to in combat effects at all.

[Malimar]

You can target the ground with an attack. It has AC 5.
I like how it's possible to fail to hit the ground. (I know, what you mean is one square of ground has AC 5, so you can't throw a rock at the ground in an open field and altogether fail to hit the ground with it. But the idea still amuses me.)

[CharonsHelper]

If you want to get super cheesy - just carry a bandolier of tied up mice who hate you. That way they're your 'enemy' and you can just attack them.

It should work by RAW, but any GM worth their salt won't actually let you get away with it.

[Malimar]

If you want to get super cheesy - just carry a bandolier of tied up mice who hate you. That way they're your 'enemy' and you can just attack them.

It should work by RAW, but any GM worth their salt won't actually let you get away with it.

Bonus: by virtue of having them tied up on your person, you're like grappling with the mice at all times, so any incoming ranged attack has an equal chance of hitting any given mouse as it is does of hitting you.

[Ellrin]

Bonus: by virtue of having them tied up on your person, you're like grappling with the mice at all times, so any incoming ranged attack has an equal chance of hitting any given mouse as it is does of hitting you.

I'm gonna need a build for "lunatic with a thousand angry mice tied to his body" like yesterday guys.