[3.5] [Rogue/Illusionist into Unseen Seer/ScM

[Tenolier]

Hi, Playground.

I'm creating a character 3.5e for a game with a heavy focus on detective RP and saw mentions of a Rogue/Illusionist/UsS/ScM build in unseen seer threads, but I've been unable to find anything more concrete about this type of build.

The idea was to be a skilled roguish character that can see all, know all, but nobody can see him. To get into ScM, I'd be going in via the Cabal adaptation that may be possible through my character background. With that in mind, I'm not entirely sure how to build this concept. I'm starting as a Rogue with D.stalker and Able Learner, for the record and Dragon Magazine feats are banned. So far, I've been thinking something along these lines:

1) Rogue: D.stalker, AL
2) Rogue: Evasion or 3) Illusionist
3) Focused Illusionist: (ACF Illusion Mastery, Immediate Magic: Brief Figment) Spell Focus: Illusion
6) Unseen Seer: Extend Spell
7) Unseen Seer: Advanced Learning: Hunter's Eye
9) Unseen Seer: Persistent Spell
10) Unseen Seer: Advanced Learning: X, Guarded Mind
11) Shadowcraft Mage
12) Shadowcraft Mage:Invisible Spell
15) Shadowcraft Mage:Heighten Spell
16) Unseen Seer
18) Unseen Seer Residual Magic

Since I'm going into UsS at 6 and going until 10 for Guarded Mind, I'd essentially be hiding and disguising normally and be immune to detection via non-detection, while being able to conduct my own divinations. In combat, I'd be sneak attacking as normal with a persisted CoK, HE, Strike spells. I also plan on getting the Dark Template too, through one way or another.
By 12 with Invisible Spell I'd be able to mask myself with an invisible fog cloud if I think that a wizard is nearby and by the time I finish ScM, I'd be able to reject peoples' reality and substitute my own with shenanigans.

My immediate thought is that I may be dipping into too many metamagics for this concept at the expense of other features, such as the loss of non-Divination caster levels through UsS and my rogue levels, and not having Practiced Spellcaster to offset it. I also thought about taking Shadow Weave Magic and a dip in Adept, but I wasn't sure how to fit that in. My DM's also not a big fan of prepared casters, so Wizard may be turned into a spontaneous caster, so if that does happen, I wonder if I shouldn't just go into Beguiler.

What do you guys think? Any other way to improve this concept?

[Rebel7284]

Only one level of rogue would be a good start. You can get evasion with a ring or with one of several spells. You can also finish the build with Divine Oracle (I think there is a magical location that gives you the prerequisite feat) which gives better evasion.

Are you persisting via Residual Magic? That works, but is pretty expensive, needing you to use a 7th level spell slot per persisted spell and only works on conjuration spells. I mean, you can also Persist "Fairly" by paying +6 level difference, but what's the fun in that. :P

Double check with your DM is invisible fog works against true seeing.

Shadowcraft Mage is pretty feat intensive if you want maximum shadow power. Earth Spell and such would allow you to get to 9th level spells. Arcane Disciple (Luck) would give you Miracle. That cuts into your sneakiness though.

[Tenolier]

Only one level of rogue would be a good start. You can get evasion with a ring or with one of several spells. You can also finish the build with Divine Oracle (I think there is a magical location that gives you the prerequisite feat) which gives better evasion.

Are you persisting via Residual Magic? That works, but is pretty expensive, needing you to use a 7th level spell slot per persisted spell and only works on conjuration spells. I mean, you can also Persist "Fairly" by paying +6 level difference, but what's the fun in that. :P

Double check with your DM is invisible fog works against true seeing.

Shadowcraft Mage is pretty feat intensive if you want maximum shadow power. Earth Spell and such would allow you to get to 9th level spells. Arcane Disciple (Luck) would give you Miracle. That cuts into your sneakiness though.

Thanks for the reply!
I was actually thinking just sticking with 1 level of rogue as well as that it would be more effective in the long run.
As for Residual Magic, I was thinking of using it for a bunch of things, actually and that was one thought. The other was to go full Earth Spell insanity with Residual Magic and SI and just get a lesser persistent rod for my HE and Strike spells which I think would actually be more effective in the long run. In that same train of thought, if I limit myself to basic 3 or lower spells for use with invisibility spell, I could probably try to get an lesser Invisible Spell rod as well for Cloud of Knives and Fog and other lower level spells. That would free up 3 feats that I could dedicate to something else, like the Earth Spell nonsense.

[Rebel7284]

As far as I know, there is no Metamagic rod of Persistent Spell OR Invisible Spell and moreover no consistent formula to figure out how much that would cost.

[gorfnab]

Here are some supplemental materials that may help.
Sneak Attacking Spellcasters Handbook (http://bg-archive.minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=1240)
Shadowcraft Mage Handbook (http://minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=16433)

[Tenolier]

As far as I know, there is no Metamagic rod of Persistent Spell OR Invisible Spell and moreover no consistent formula to figure out how much that would cost.


That is actually an issue, unfortunately. Ultimately it's up to DM discretion, but Persistent rods do exist in PF, but an Invisible Spell rod would have to be customized by the GM. Thinking about it now, the D20 SRD has lessers at 3k for Enlarge, Extend, and Silent, but Maximize and Quicken are all 14k and 35k, respectively, and as far as I can tell, it probably has something to do with mathematical effectiveness.