Strange situation

[Dkrochon]

I was wondering if this would be allowed. Now I understand the rules of line of effect and line of site, I am trying to see if this could be an exception.

Ok so here it goes:

I wanted to use summon monster spell and summon an earth elemental directly in the ground. While I understand that I would not have line of effect or line of site , but seeing if this would be an exception to that rule. My argument is that elementals should be able to be summoned in their own element. Another example is standing on the shore, a caster should be able to summon water elemental in the water.

The DM ruled against it unless I can find additional arguments for it. I understand why, for it can open up a whole can of worms.

Thoughts ??

and thank you in advance.

DKR

[Segev]

I was wondering if this would be allowed. Now I understand the rules of line of effect and line of site, I am trying to see if this could be an exception.

Ok so here it goes:

I wanted to use summon monster spell and summon an earth elemental directly in the ground. While I understand that I would not have line of effect or line of site , but seeing if this would be an exception to that rule. My argument is that elementals should be able to be summoned in their own element. Another example is standing on the shore, a caster should be able to summon water elemental in the water.

The DM ruled against it unless I can find additional arguments for it. I understand why, for it can open up a whole can of worms.

Thoughts ??

and thank you in advance.

DKR

If the elemental has a burrow speed or other ability to submerge in the ground, I'd think it's legal as long as you summon it so that a portion of it is essentially breaching the surface of the ground. For example, it's back is scraping the air just enough for you to see it. That provides line of sight and line of effect.

[Dkrochon]

To add to the difficulty, we are in a forbiddance. The DM ruled that we are able to summon creatures as long as they are outside the forbiddance when they come into being. So think of the players locked in a room and this was a way to get a creature in to help them, but it would have to have been summoned deep in the stone and cross the forbiddance. I know difficult situation.

[Segev]

To add to the difficulty, we are in a forbiddance. The DM ruled that we are able to summon creatures as long as they are outside the forbiddance when they come into being. So think of the players locked in a room and this was a way to get a creature in to help them, but it would have to have been summoned deep in the stone and cross the forbiddance. I know difficult situation.

Well, no, you can't summon a creature into the area of a forbiddance spell. No getting around that; the same thing that lets you be beyond the area (the line of effect being blocked by the stone floor) is blocking your line of effect to the location that is outside the area. You'd need to get beyond that area.

[BowStreetRunner]

Forbiddance is interesting in that it doesn't actually prevent the casting of a summoning spell, only the ability of a creature to be summoned within the effect. So a caster standing inside the Forbiddance can indeed select a location outside the forbiddance as the place where the summoned creature will appear.

You must have line of effect to the point of origin of any spell you cast. If you were attempting to cast a spell with an area effect in which the point of origin was a vertex, you could target one of the corners of that 3 dimensional 5 foot cube. However, my understanding of a summon monster spell is that the point of origin is the center of the 3 dimensional 5 foot cube where the summoned creature will appear. So in this case, I don't think you can summon a creature into the ground this way.