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MonkeySage
2018-07-30, 08:38 PM
To start with: The current ducal family ruling in Lunegard was at one time a cadet branch to the old royal family to the Kingdom of Edonia. A new royal family rules in Edonia, but the old royal family had a black sheep- a princess who turned to necromancy, an illegal practice in Edonia. Shortly after achieving lichdom, she was caught by her father's guard. The King didn't have the heart to execute his own daughter, but knew that he couldn't let her go free. And besides that, she'd hidden her phylactery- to this day it remains hidden.

Well, long story short- she's back, and she wants her Kingdom. She's getting help from the Uncle to the current Duchess of Lunegard (the Duchess is 10 years old, her uncle is Regent of Lunegard). Uncle Traitor is backing a new murderous thieves guild in the Lunegard capital, to undermine his neice's regime, but also to hunt down the various objects the lich feels she will need for her rise to power. This Thieves Guild was actually the organization that unearthed her from the crypts(at Uncle Traitor's direction).

I want to develop this necromancer and her lackey, to make them both interesting. At this time, my players only know about the thieves guild, not their ties to the Regent.

Grim Portent
2018-07-30, 09:34 PM
Do you have an idea on why the princess turned to necromancy? Did she start learning other magic first and then become a necromancer or was necromancy her first discipline? Was she hoping to restore a lost love or just out for power? Is she in favour of subtley subverting the current power structure all the way to completion or would she prefer to just march in with an army? Is she grateful to the regent for unearthing her or does she view him as an odious patron of petty thieves?

It might be fun is she views the regent very much as a deplorable means to a desirable (for her) end. She could hate his skulduggery and scheming, genuinely or hypocritically, and plan to cast him aside as soon as is convenient in favour of more loyal aides. A prospective tyrant uses mob boss to gain power then betrays them type of thing.

MonkeySage
2018-07-30, 10:04 PM
Her father doted on her, sparing no expense to give her the best magical education he could afford, and being ruler of what at the time was one of the largest empires in the west, that was a lot. Her education was generalized at first, but she started on the path of an enchantress- and behind her tutor's back, harbored a deep fascination with the undead.

Her father promised she'd one day be Queen- until his new wife insisted that their son should be his heir instead. So with that broken promise, she dove straight into the necromancy, plotting to one day use it to seize her crown by force. All that said, she knows her own limitations as a single necromancer- so she plots, as you suggest, preferring subtler methods than just marching on the capital with an army of zombies.

As for the Regent- to her, he's a member of a bastard line. But having a Duke who's loyal to her will be very useful later.

PiperThePaladin
2018-07-30, 10:22 PM
This sounds like an awesome villain!

When I'm putting together important NPCs, I like to take two unrelated concepts and use them as my skeleton. D&D has to work in kind of broad strokes, and I find that two ideas generate an interesting character without getting too bogged down in subtlety that's hard to communicate through RPG.

Some of my favorites so far have been:

1. JUSTICE paladin + cocky meathead jock
2. Ex-adventurer war cleric missing a leg + fashionista who never leaves her house without a full face of makeup
3. Gossipy romantic poet + a dragon

Your necromancer has one of these concepts already - powerful wizard necromancer. Your second concept could definitely be "princess," as you've already outlined that in her background.

Really leaning hard into the most fairytale, princessy stereotypes might be pretty interesting. Maybe she's really passive, whiny, a bit of a crybaby, good at charming people into doing what she wants them to do, and uses self-destruction to reel people into a toxic pattern of "rescuing" her. That would definitely be an intriguing combination with "wizard lich who bends reality to their will."

As for the uncle, I think the key to his character is going to be why he thinks this plan is a good idea. Reviving a necromancer lich to help usurp your 10 year old niece is a... less than foolproof plan, at least if you want any chance of getting a hold of power yourself. He is going to have a really hard time keeping the duchess lich under his control/influence, and once his niece is out of the way, why should the lich do anything other than take the throne for herself? How does the uncle think he will benefit from this?

Maybe he is an egomaniac who thinks he can keep the lich under his thumb by sheer charisma. Maybe he has a hero complex and wants to thunder in at the head of a phalanx of paladins to overthrow the evil usurper lich. Maybe he doesn't want the throne at all, he just wants to see the city burn. Whatever you decide, I think that's going to be the linchpin of this character.

Andor13
2018-07-31, 08:42 AM
PiperThePaladin hits the nail on the head. How does a man who is so feckless he needs allies to plot against a 10 yr old girl, over a Kingdom he already has control over, think he's going to control a Lich Queen?

Possible answers:
He has her phylactery.
He has a prophecy that tells him this will work great. Bonus points if the prophecy is something she herself wrote as a "Plan C."
He isn't in it for himself, he thought the King who removed her from the line of succession was a jerk, blames him for the fall of the royal line, and is trying to correct a historical injustice.
He's an idiot.

The fact that the Lich was powerful enough to become a Lich, was plotting to seize power, and yet failed raises definite questions. She was a top level Tier 1 spellcaster with bonus powers and deep knowledge of those she was plotting against. How did she fail?

Possibilities:
The Royal family at the time was really high level.
She's the classic high int 4 Wis caster, and was thus too transparent and predictable, but that contradicts her getting to be a high level necromancer in secret in the first place.
She really loved her father and was unable to disintegrate him when confronted, and thus allowed herself to be captured.

Problems with the plot over all.
Why hasn't she already won? Seriously. All the Lich Queen needs to do in this scenario is teleport into the girls bedchamber (which probably used to be her room, so familiar) and kill/imprison the girl and then use illusions to take her place. With the Regent in her pocket, there are almost no holes in that plan.

Segev
2018-07-31, 09:18 AM
He could also have "fallen in love" (in his own twisted mind) with the legends of the beautiful undead princess. A simple disguise self would be all she'd need to live up to the beauty. He sees himself in her, and got hung up on the "injustice of it all" as his justification for his crimes. Just like him, she was passed over for a less worthy family member. Now, together, they'll show them all!


Alternatively, she may have been bound, but somehow she got ahold of his name or identity, and has been using dream to speak to him for years, corrupting him, charming him (mundanely) to her side.

Or, he found her prison as a child, and that was the worst day of his life; though bound, she was still able to geas him to restore her to the throne. He has no choice but to work against his beloved niece. The thieves' guild and all his elaborate plans are subtly overcomplicated in his private hope that he might yet fail.

Or, he's planning to set any heroes who rise to defend his niece on the lich-Princess. She's obviously the evil mastermind. He's the supportive uncle. If the lich wins, well... he's still her right hand, which is at least no worse than where he was before. If she loses, and the little Duchess dies in the meantime, he's the obvious loyal heir to the throne.

Or, he didn't free her; she's possessing him (via magic jar or similar). The "lich" that is out there wreaking havoc is a combination of programmed illusions and dressed-up skeletons, possibly bearing magic mouths. She'll reclaim her real body when she actually has the throne secure.

Max_Killjoy
2018-07-31, 10:28 AM
Or, he found her prison as a child, and that was the worst day of his life; though bound, she was still able to geas him to restore her to the throne. He has no choice but to work against his beloved niece. The thieves' guild and all his elaborate plans are subtly overcomplicated in his private hope that he might yet fail.


I really like this one as an explanation for that villain who keeps coming up with ever more head-scratchingly convoluted schemes and plots -- either intentionally or subconsciously, they're trying to fail.

They have to try to win, they have to look like they're trying to win, but deep inside they're piling on the potential points of failure in ever more complicated and crazy plans in hopes that someone will discover what's going on or that one failed element will bring the whole thing crashing to the ground.

With so many villains in stories seeming to rely on 5-dimensional checkers* over and over again, this would actually give a grounded explanation as to why one of them would seem so grandiosely inept or insane.

I love this, and plan on stealing it.


( * deliberately used "checkers", not "chess", here. )

Segev
2018-07-31, 11:11 AM
I really like this one as an explanation for that villain who keeps coming up with ever more head-scratchingly convoluted schemes and plots -- either intentionally or subconsciously, they're trying to fail.

They have to try to win, they have to look like they're trying to win, but deep inside they're piling on the potential points of failure in every more complicated and crazy plans in hopes that someone will discover what's going on or that one failed element will bring the whole thing crashing to the ground.

With so many villains in stories seeming to rely on 5-dimensional checkers* over and over again, this would actually give a grounded explanation as to why one of them would seem so grandiosely inept or insane.

I love this, and plan on stealing it.


( * deliberately used "checkers", not "chess", here. )
Glad you like it! I'd love to hear how it goes after you use it, someday. :)

Cluedrew
2018-07-31, 12:53 PM
Possible answers:
[...]
He's an idiot.

The fact that the Lich was powerful enough to become a Lich, was plotting to seize power, and yet failed raises definite questions. She was a top level Tier 1 spellcaster with bonus powers and deep knowledge of those she was plotting against. How did she fail?Maybe she is the stupid one?

Really, maybe outside of some book smarts for spell casting (and you don't need much for that) she doesn't know what she is doing. Maybe the reason her father agreed to change succession around was not because of constant nagging, but he understood as much as he loved his daughter she would not make a good ruler. So her plotting is kind of like a fairy-tale, or romance novel, villain's with the obvious flaws taken out. Or at least that is how it was back in the old days, maybe she has gotten a little better since then. There are different types of intelligence, maybe she only has one.

The uncle then isn't thinking he will be able to take the thrown, but that if she is on it he can pretty much act as if he was anyways. (Or that is how he can slip the bad plans past her if he is under some mind control. I enjoy that idea too.)

MonkeySage
2018-07-31, 12:59 PM
A bit of clarification: The Duchess of Lunegard is a high ranking vassal to the King of Edonia, and the Regent is only regent to the 10 year old Duchess, not the paranoid 41 year old King. Although Lunegard is a historical capital for Edonia, the capital has since been moved. When the old royal family ruled, they ruled from Lunegard. So, the regent could claim his ducal title in service to his new queen, the necromancer. (Feudalism is such a headache XD)

Killing the Duchess wouldn't make the necromancer Queen- at least not immediately. She'd still have the rest of Edonia and the current royal family to deal with. Having a Duke in her pocket would give her access to his armies. Edonia has 3 other dukes, in addition to the King.

As for why she lost last time- the old royal family was pretty powerful, and not just politically. The father was a high level Magus, and had some of the finest wizards in his court. She was outnumbered and outgunned, so to speak. She counted on her father seeing her through rose colored glasses, and simply got careless and unlucky. I plan to work out the details later, but that is what I have so far.

I've been thinking about how the Regent believes this is going to work out, and thought of one possibility: He becomes Duke of Lunegard, and Consort to the new Queen of Edonia. In exchange, she gets his loyalty and the service of his armies, which she can use to help her take her crown from the current King.

I'm thinking I may need to refine things a bit- to think about why he doesn't just have his niece killed so he can take her place. To think about why the necromancer doesn't is a bit easier- it would eliminate the Regent's chances of becoming a duke. I like the suggestion that the regent might have the necromancer's phylactery.

Segev
2018-07-31, 01:16 PM
Depending on how Eeheeheeheevil you want to make the Regent, perhaps he doesn't just kill and replace his niece because she's a backup plan. See, the lich was destroyed in such a way that her normal revivification doesn't work; she needs a host body to possess. Plan A is to insert her into the body of the King's wife or daughter. Plan B is the Duchess (the regent's niece), and killing off the other heirs to the throne.


If you wanted to use the not-really-evil-just-geased version, he doesn't kill his niece because he doesn't want to hurt her, and is convincing himself that his Machiavellian schemes are the best way to go about taking the throne for the would-be lich-queen.


Hm. A logical hitch in his thieves' guild plot: undermining his niece's rule doesn't make sense while he's Regent. She isn't making decisions right now. He is. He'd be better off backing the guild to undermine the King's rule. He could start with harboring them in his home Duchy, and be asking the King for aid that he knows he won't get (possibly due to how he asks for it). Then spread them to the other Duchies, and start to quell the problem in his. By the time the others are asking for help, he's the one with the Secret Police that are experienced in taking down the thieves' guild. (The Secret Police and the thieves' guild are one and the same, but nobody else needs to know that.)

So his plan is for the King to realize he (the Regent) has the means of dealing with it, and the Regent will initially refuse to help on the basis that he didn't get any and this represents a huge investment and is needed to protect his niece. All designed to get the King to order him to distribute his secret police to the other Duchies.

I don't know if this is 3.5e D&D or not, but if it is, look up Necrotic Cyst and its related spells in Libris Mortis. If your would-be lich-queen has the Mother Cyst feat, she could use this line to help him control and spread his secret police.


Maybe, even if he's not compelled, and really wants his Ducal seat for himself rather than as her regent, he really does like, or even love, his little niece. He was jealous of his brother, and of her, but they're family. He would be happy if she stayed a little girl forever, and he could keep ruling in her name. Sadly, she's growing up. So he needs to make her unfit to rule, needing him for her whole life. But he doesn't want to kill her; she delights him. As if she were his own daughter. Just, you know, a daughter who he wants to stay subordinate, not get promoted over him when she comes of age.

Andor13
2018-07-31, 02:48 PM
A bit of clarification: The Duchess of Lunegard is a high ranking vassal to the King of Edonia, and the Regent is only regent to the 10 year old Duchess, not the paranoid 41 year old King. Although Lunegard is a historical capital for Edonia, the capital has since been moved. When the old royal family ruled, they ruled from Lunegard. So, the regent could claim his ducal title in service to his new queen, the necromancer. (Feudalism is such a headache XD)

I'm thinking I may need to refine things a bit- to think about why he doesn't just have his niece killed so he can take her place. To think about why the necromancer doesn't is a bit easier- it would eliminate the Regent's chances of becoming a duke. I like the suggestion that the regent might have the necromancer's phylactery.

Ah, okay. That does clear things up. As for the Regent not killing his niece, as you say, feudalism is complicated. It may well be that with her gone, the succession would get muddled and you would have a 12 way brawl.

With her alive, he's got 5-7 more years to figure things out. Maybe he's plotting with the Lich Queen to marry her off to some foreign crown to both shore up her reign, and free up the seat for him. Could be a fun way to bring in the PCs actually, with them as agents of the foreign prince sent to scout out any potential pitfalls in this marriage.

MonkeySage
2018-07-31, 10:50 PM
So I'm working on a short list of objects she is having the regent procure for her efforts, and here are the two I've thought about the most so far:

Her old Grimoire: A "blessed" book she created prior to her transformation. It contains pretty much all of her spells and rituals, which is highly resistant to damage. The pages were made from her own skin. The book is kept in a special container she created, and can only be accessed by way of a portal to a demiplane created by the royal mages of Edonia shortly after she was buried.

An urn filled with daemon blood: No ordinary fiend blood, were this to be used to poison drinking water supplies, it could potentially transform an entire village into empowered ghouls.

There are others, but these are the two I've put the most thought into.

Max_Killjoy
2018-07-31, 11:08 PM
Brainstorming why simple killing won't work for the villains.

Maybe the throne or crown or scepter is a literal magical symbol of rulership, and only one who rightfully possesses it can rule.

And maybe there's a curse or enchantment such that anyone who murders the current holder of that object can never himself take possession of that object.

Or something like that.

Segev
2018-08-01, 09:47 AM
Brainstorming why simple killing won't work for the villains.

Maybe the throne or crown or scepter is a literal magical symbol of rulership, and only one who rightfully possesses it can rule.

And maybe there's a curse or enchantment such that anyone who murders the current holder of that object can never himself take possession of that object.

Or something like that.
Maybe part of the revivification ritual for the lich requires a sacrifice of "the ruler of Lunegard." The Regent would prefer to sacrifice his niece at the appointed time to having himself be officially the ruler and thus on the altar.

Andor13
2018-08-01, 10:05 AM
Brainstorming why simple killing won't work for the villains.

Maybe the throne or crown or scepter is a literal magical symbol of rulership, and only one who rightfully possesses it can rule.

And maybe there's a curse or enchantment such that anyone who murders the current holder of that object can never himself take possession of that object.

Or something like that.

Well, the current King is paranoid, we're told, so if you assume he's paranoid and competent then killing him is probably doable, but killing him and taking his place without any one noticing is probably not. And if you merely kill him and claim the crown then you have a full on succession war, and depending on how loathed necromancers/undead are, possibly a religious one as well.

Murder-hoboing your way onto an existing throne only works if you can terrify everyone else who wants it into accepting your rule. And if there are a lot of high level people around, even a Lich isn't getting there by fiat.

Cluedrew
2018-08-01, 10:23 AM
I have two ideas to add for why the current 10-year old ruler being kept alive. One it simply is too early to have something so publically visible happen as taking out the heir, so they leave her alive until things have become two

The possibly more interesting (and probably harder to use) one is that the lich sees herself in the underaged duchess and actually wants to bring her on side or at least not hurt her. There are parallels in their stories, which would only grow if they (lich and regent) tried to steal the thrown from her. So maybe the end state they are hoping is the lich as queen, the regent as first minister and the duchess still duchess. It would probably be the kindest element of either villain we have seen yet, which I'm not sure if you want but it might make for an interesting twist.

Fable Wright
2018-08-03, 12:48 PM
I'd like to think that the princess really just wanted to solve the problems of her country. They can't wage war, or easily defend from invasions, without a true army sworn to the king, but the current army is levied and managed by local dukes. There's little check on their power from the crown, which will cause long term problems for the kingdom.

Also, an army that doesn't march on its stomach is HUGE.

She knows that many good policies were started, but never followed up on due to the previous ruler's death. Having a ruler that's immortal would allow the strongest guiding vision to reap truly strong rewards.

The uncle knows that he'll never keep his power under the current regime, and holds a resentment against the nobles. But he did know of someone who had strong anti noble agendas, and the personal power to enforce them, AND ascend the throne to allow him to keep his land. Praise the lich princess!

So you've got the stereotypical evil traitorous power seeker trying to resurrect someone who actually cares deeply about the kingdom, enough to dedicate eternity to running it. I imagine that the lich princess is trying to gather what she can to make her ascension look legitimate, instead of being a hostile takeover. A civil war is bad for the country. Sounds like she'd do whatever she can to ensure that the nobles are blackmailed into backing her, and ensuring a legitimate seat on the throne.

But then again, I like sympathetic villains. Give the heroes a chance to choose who they want to back.

Max_Killjoy
2018-08-03, 01:00 PM
I'd like to think that the princess really just wanted to solve the problems of her country. They can't wage war, or easily defend from invasions, without a true army sworn to the king, but the current army is levied and managed by local dukes. There's little check on their power from the crown, which will cause long term problems for the kingdom.

Also, an army that doesn't march on its stomach is HUGE.

She knows that many good policies were started, but never followed up on due to the previous ruler's death. Having a ruler that's immortal would allow the strongest guiding vision to reap truly strong rewards.

The uncle knows that he'll never keep his power under the current regime, and holds a resentment against the nobles. But he did know of someone who had strong anti noble agendas, and the personal power to enforce them, AND ascend the throne to allow him to keep his land. Praise the lich princess!

So you've got the stereotypical evil traitorous power seeker trying to resurrect someone who actually cares deeply about the kingdom, enough to dedicate eternity to running it. I imagine that the lich princess is trying to gather what she can to make her ascension look legitimate, instead of being a hostile takeover. A civil war is bad for the country. Sounds like she'd do whatever she can to ensure that the nobles are blackmailed into backing her, and ensuring a legitimate seat on the throne.

But then again, I like sympathetic villains. Give the heroes a chance to choose who they want to back.


I like this, it has some depth and complexity. A good mix of doing the wrong thing for selfish reasons, and doing the wrong thing for less selfish reasons.

Does the Duke / Regent uncle also want to obtain immortality for himself, I wonder.

Grim Portent
2018-08-03, 03:31 PM
This came to me recently, have you considered having the princess view the whole affair as something of a fairy tale?

You've got a lot of the basic ingredients, a loving king, his bright and charming daughter, a half-brother and a
scheming stepmother, a birthright denied, a long imprisonment and a noble rescuer.

As far as the princess is concerned her rightful place as queen was stolen from her by her father after he was decieved and manipulated by a wicked stepmother, she then tried to stand up for her birthright and locked away for a long time, now a duke has freed her and promises to help her regain the throne that was unjustly stolen from her.

Perhaps what she wants isn't just her kingdom back, but the specific parts of it she was supposed to have as Queen. Her friends, her betrothed, her father and brother and favorite servants and so on. She was meant to have so many things before she was locked up and now they're all dead, but that's no obstacle anymore, not to her. She wants the ending to her story she was always supposed to have, and if that means reanimating everybody who was part of the royal court when she rebelled and making them re-enact things her way then so be it.