Hands-free weapon options

[Quoz]

I'm playing a grappler who usually is rocking shield, full plate and rapier. When I want to grapple I always have to drop or stow my weapon. It's great for control but my damage output drops to almost nothing.

Fighter 4 (BM)/Rogue 1
Maneuvers: Disarm, Menace, Commander's strike
Expertise athletics
Shield Master
Sneak attack 1d6

I'm looking for options to increase damage without sacrificing my ability to control the battlefield through grapple/prone shenanigans. Currently my best options are commander's strike (limited use, and restricted by availability of allied reactions) unarmed strike (4 damage, yay) and improvised weapon (usually the poor sap I'm grappling. d4 Damage and no proficiency). Usually I can find something creative to do like chuck someone out a window but I want something more consistent. We've finally arrived at a major metropolis where we can spend loot and find items, so here's some ideas for hands free weapons I've come up with.

Bladed boots: a rogues favored weapon of last resort. 1d4 piercing, finesse, special. Always has disadvantage against targets that are not prone or surprised. Against prone opponents, if you have the sneak attack feature add an extra 1d6.

Armor Spikes: may be added to any medium or heavy armor, adds the effects of spiked armor from the Berserker Barbarian subclass. May require either magic item or a feat to be effective.

Bladed shield: shield that can be used as a weapon, dealing 1d6 damage.

Cantrip ring/amulet: grants use of one cantrip at will. Not sure what would be best here as my Cha and Int are both horribly low. Maybe something from the druid list.

Other options: magic initiate for cantrip attacks, 1 level dip in monk for unarmed strike (not great for story reasons) Tavern Brawler feat (mostly a waste since I already have shield master).

Thoughts/comments/suggestions?

[MaxWilson]

improvised weapon (usually the poor sap I'm grappling. d4 Damage and no proficiency)... Thoughts/comments/suggestions?

That's brilliant! Smash one guy with a table lag and grapple him with your bonus action. Next turn, smash one guy with the first guy and grapple him too with your bonus action. Genius. :)

Edit: oh, I didn't see that you're not a Tavern Brawler. One interesting thing about Tavern Brawler is that it's compatible with Booming Blade, because unlike every other feat with a rider I can think of, you don't have to take the Attack action to use it--you just need to make an attack on your turn.

As a DM I think I'd be open to allowing weapons like your hypothetical bladed shield, but I'd treat it as a weapon-other-than-Martial, so you wouldn't get proficiency with it unless you took Weapon Master. (Otherwise why woudn't everybody be using bladed shields?) Getting to increase your shield damage from d4 to d6 is benefit enough.

In general, giving up damage is the sacrifice grapplers have to make if they want to grapple + prone + still get a shield's AC bonus. Natural weapons like Lizardfolks bites and Tabaxi claws is one way to get around this restriction; Tavern Brawler is the other.

[Quoxis]

Tavern brawler + trip attack maneuver opens up a second attack (as usually you go attack, grapple instead of second attack, bonus action shove; now you can attack, attack and shove, bonus action grapple) per turn.

There’s a magic item called animated shield which doesn’t require to be held, but still provides the +2 AC - not exactly a weapon, but still opens up a hand.

[leogobsin]

What I might allow as a DM if I had a player who brought this issue up is something along the lines of your spiked shield suggestion- but with the caveat that it can only be used against targets that are grappled, restrained, prone, or unconscious (or if that's too strict disadvantage on attacks against targets who aren't grappled/restrained/etc), to help answer the question of "well why doesn't everyone just use a spiked shield." I'd also probably make it fairly expensive, maybe say the player would need to have it specially commissioned and take some time to make.

[odigity]

I like optimizing my characters, but full plate + rapier breaks plausibility. At that point you're clearly only concerned with game mechanics and not character/story verisimilitude.

(Not trying to stomp on your discussion, just a thought I wanted to share. Carry on.)

[Quoxis]

I like optimizing my characters, but full plate + rapier breaks plausibility. At that point you're clearly only concerned with game mechanics and not character/story verisimilitude.

(Not trying to stomp on your discussion, just a thought I wanted to share. Carry on.)

Let’s not derail this thread too much, but why?
What’s wrong with a fantasy game including a full plate knight that fights with a skewer instead of a greatsword?
And why do people feel the need to tell others they’re playing the game wrongly, going so far as to post their closeminded opinion without contributing anything to the actual discussion?

[odigity]

Let’s not derail this thread too much, but why?
What’s wrong with a fantasy game including a full plate knight that fights with a skewer instead of a greatsword?
And why do people feel the need to tell others they’re playing the game wrongly, going so far as to post their closeminded opinion without contributing anything to the actual discussion?

You may want to speak to a doctor about that opinion allergy.

[VoxRationis]

Let’s not derail this thread too much, but why?
What’s wrong with a fantasy game including a full plate knight that fights with a skewer instead of a greatsword?
And why do people feel the need to tell others they’re playing the game wrongly, going so far as to post their closeminded opinion without contributing anything to the actual discussion?

Because a rapier is not a battlefield weapon that matches the sorts of situations implied by the wearing of full plate. It'd be like having a modern infantryman with full armor kit running around with an Colt 1911 as his primary weapon. The fact that it's a fantasy setting has nothing to do with the reasons for this. The fact that some people can summon demons or craft illusions doesn't affect the impetus for why a rapier is not the weapon of the classical knight.

That said, a cleric or druid cantrip would be pretty handy for unarmed combat. (Perhaps not as good in some circumstances as an arcane cantrip, but you said your character had low Charisma and Intelligence scores.) Thorn Whip even gives you battlefield control for free as part of your offensive action.

[opaopajr]

This is surreal, given what I just said about this weapon in another topic (and it's a weapon I like a lot!), but have you considered darts? :smallsmile: It's a ranged weapon, which qualifies for sneak attack, and it gets out of your hand for grappling later. Further, it's a ranged weapon with finesse, so your higher STR is usable for attack & damage.

Also, once you hit Fighter 5 you can use extra attack so you can mix things up with darts, grapples, Shield Master feat bonus action shoves, action surges... :smallwink: Much shenanigans should ensue upon combat start. :smalltongue:

What's your Fighting Style, by the way?

[Exocist]

Because a rapier is not a battlefield weapon that matches the sorts of situations implied by the wearing of full plate. It'd be like having a modern infantryman with full armor kit running around with an Colt 1911 as his primary weapon. The fact that it's a fantasy setting has nothing to do with the reasons for this. The fact that some people can summon demons or craft illusions doesn't affect the impetus for why a rapier is not the weapon of the classical knight.


Well, it is a fantasy setting. It's not practical in the real world, but neither is a scrawny dude with a wooden staff and a crystal ball speaking in foreign languages - he's not going to throw a fireball, he's just insane.

If you take the fantasy aspect, there's plenty of references for full plate/knight armor + rapier, particularly for the more elegant-style knights. One (https://i.imgur.com/SOuxMqk.jpg), Two (https://i.imgur.com/kzPgWIa.jpg). Musketeers also wore armor similar to plate and used sabres or rapiers.

[TheFryingPen]

RAW nothing's stopping you from using shield as an improvised weapon. It's up to the DM, but you could argue that as a shield master, you certainly have proficiency with that attack and giving it the damage of a club (1d4) would seem reasonable. You wouldn't get sneak attack (no finesse), but you might be able to add Green Flame Blade / Booming Blade to this (improvised weapons count as weapons when you attack with them - still it's another thing you might want to ask your DM about). GFB could be nice for a grappler since you can drag your enemy next to another one if there isn't one around already.

You could ask your DM to be reincarnated as a race that has better unarmed damage (by biting or something else that doesn't only apply to hands).

As for damage cantrips, mind that you can't perform somatic or material components with your hands occupied. Basically your only options are Lightning Lure, Sword Burst and Vicious Mockery. Unfortunately, none of those are attack roll cantrips, so you can't profit from knocking people prone. You could ask your DM to allow Shocking Grasp to be used without the somatic component when you grapple the target (would be thematic imo). That way you'd have 2 ways of gaining advantage on the roll to work around your low spell attack bonus.

[nickl_2000]

Some other options I can think of

-If you can get your hands on it, a dance sword would be pretty awesome.
-You can clap manacles on the opponent you are grappling
-You can pull a hood over their head blinding them
-Drop and immovable rod on top of them and move onto the next person
-Ask you DM if you can make finesse clawed gauntlets to do 1d4 slashing with claws
-Get a ring of jumping and suplex your grappled opponent
-Ring of Spell Storing with Fire Shield cast into it by allies.

[kamap]

You could discuss with your DM if you could do other things while grappling someone.

Trying to suffocate them, pin them down with 1 hand (advantage on the rolls to get out of the grapple for example) grab a weapon in the free hand like a dagger and stab the person your grappling, smahing their head against the floor your grappling on (contested strength check or something).
Tie them up with a bit of rope, Lift them up and piledrive them onto a table, throw them down stairs, use them as improvised weapons.

The shield bash idea is also a good one or if you have a light shield, you could stride to your oponent, throw your shield captain america style, grapple and let the fun commence.
Spiked gaunlet that existed in 3.5 also comes to mind.


Some ideas on the full plate with rapier comments:
The musketeers didn't wear anything resembling plate armor they wore a helmet and sometimes a breast plate, their main weapon was a musket and the backup weapon when close quarter fighting was needed could indeed be a rapier or sabre.

Yes it is a fantasy setting and luckily you can do what you are doing.

Also Lucky that there are no rules for a rapier getting smashed caput by a longsword if you try to block with the rapier, which in the real world would happen.
In a straight up fight between 2 full plated Knights, one using a shield and a rapier and the other using a longsword and a shield, most of the times the one with the longsword will win.
Fighting with a rapier which is a dex weapon usually requires more movement and finesse then you could have wearing a full plate.
Its not realistic and normally isn't practical but like you said its a fantasy setting and lots is possible but you have to admit it smacks of just looking at mechanics and throwing logic out the window but if you are having fun and no one at your table has a problem with it, awsome.

[Vogie]

There’s a magic item called animated shield which doesn’t require to be held, but still provides the +2 AC - not exactly a weapon, but still opens up a hand.


RAW nothing's stopping you from using shield as an improvised weapon. It's up to the DM, but you could argue that as a shield master, you certainly have proficiency with that attack and giving it the damage of a club (1d4) would seem reasonable.

I'd love to be a grappler that has a shield floating around him, that he occasionally grabs and slams into someone's skull.

Even better if you have some sort of magic training, and your DM allows you to use the shield to telekinetically slam attack into people nearby

[Mortis_Elrod]

if you have decent wisdom then Primal Savagery is your cantrip. Melee spell attack, acid damage 1d10 base.

Besides that you may want to consider a different race. You didn't list one but i bet it isn't Lizardfolk. thats a d6 Bite with a short rest rechargeable bonus action for temp hp.

Probably not as useful without knowing your stats but i thought i'd let you know.

[Quoz]

Race is Firbolg. With the racial ability to cast disguise self, I feel more flexible about aesthetic. Spent a lot of time working in a Dwarven mine and shed most of the day taboos about Iron. The sword is more accurately fluffed as a radius style stabbing sword. On a near large creature a human sized longsword would fit more like a short sword, trading versatile for fitness. But that's beside the point.

I like the ring of spell storing - one of my favorite class breaking items under any circumstance. We just hit 5th level so our paladin gets find steed (which has share spells) and our cleric gets spirit guardians. Sure it's only once a day, but double spirit guardians focussed on a grappled big bad makes for a really bad day. And since its activating a magic item I don't have to worry about somatic components while grappling.