Spell Domain vs. Magic Domain: Which to choose?

[BlackOnyx]

In other words, which is generally more useful to a divine caster interested in the arcane arts: access to Anyspell and Greater Anyspell or access to the Magic Domain's granted power?

[jdizzlean]

it largely depends on what you want your character to do.

anyspell/greater are "ok-ish" but they only give you one very specific spell at the cost of a higher level slot

whereas being able to apply 1/2 your cleric level to UMD checks for Wiz/Sorc things could be of much higher general and overall utility.


its really up to you, but i would generally speaking go with the latter as I think its more beneficial.

[Eldariel]

Spell-domain by a long shot, particularly if you take it with Spontaneous Domain Casting [PHBII]. Access to all Wizard spells under level 6 is pretty great and the rest of the spells on the domain aren't awful either (Disjunction in particular is very valuable to have access to and Limited Wish is just nice - though of course Magic-domain offers Disjunction too). Magic-domain's best part is the granted power but that's mostly so you don't need UMD for item wizardry. If you want to actually be an arcanist, just get those juicy arcane spells instead. Particularly useful for buffing (since the action cost doesn't matter there) but also for anything else.

[NontheistCleric]

Access to the Anyspell spells is, in my opinion, better.

Firstly, Anyspell works for any arcane spell you can find in a scroll or spellbook. You're not just limited to effects from the Wizard list (although admittedly it will probably come up only rarely). In addition, you can actually use spellbooks, something impossible with the Magic domain, which gives you a lot more versatility in your arcane exploits because then you're not just limited to whatever spells might be contained within a particular item, likely to be a lot less than what's in a spellbook. The caster level and save DCs will almost invariably be better when you're casting the spell under your own power rather than from an item, as well.

[sleepyphoenixx]

It depends on your playstyle and group composition.

You have to actually use arcane scrolls/wands regularly or the Magic domain is useless. Same applies if you put points into UMD anyway (via Apprentice:Spellcaster, for example).
Similar the Spell domain requires you to actually spend money on spellbooks or scrolls unless your party already has a wizard who doesn't mind sharing his book with you.

That said i prefer the Spell domain since i don't actually spend much on wands in general, let alone wizard wands on a cleric.
I also tend to go Cloistered Cleric and put points into UMD anyway so it'd be doubly useless for me.

[Fizban]

Anyspell is overrated. The whole point of the Cleric is that you have the entire Cleric spell list, why would you make a point of getting a couple daily spell slots that require a spellbook which you have to acquire completely separately? You can trade 3rds for 1sts or 2nds, and 6ths for 3-5ths. The secret is that the only part of the arcanist role which is actually necessary is the combat, which takes more than just a couple domain slots per day. Aside from crowd-control and direct attacks, the Cleric already gets all the stuff people like to attribute to Wizards by 6th level spells. Fly? Air Walk. Teleport? Word of Recall. Plane Shift? Actually gets it sooner. What 2nd level sor/wiz spells are so important they're worth that investment, what 3rd-5th spell can you not already do with a 6th? There's a high chance that whatever specific effect you want like say, Dimension Door or Knock or something, is already on a different domain list with a better domain ability backing it up.

The Magic domain on the other hand, just has a better spell list. Same Disjunction at the top, with more useful and off-list spells basically all the way down- many of which are defensive effects that cut into the arcanists's offense. Protection From Spells is an off-list long duration party buff so one domain slot isn't a problem, one of the bigger problems with Spell Turning is the chance of stopping the Cleric from saving you but you're already the Cleric, Antimagic Field two-levels lower than other Clerics is pretty huge and once again allows your arcanist to leave the field to attack rather than being stuck in it, an extra preparation of Spell Resistance is good against tons of SLA wielding monsters, Dispel Magic is generally considered a top pick at 3rd, Identify with no component cost at 2nd is free money, and Magic Aura is one of those spells that no one thinks about until they have it and then suddenly it's game changing and you just kinda get it. The only real stinker on the Magic domain list is Imbue with Spell Ability. Meanwhile the domain power is just plain reliable. If you want to use 2nd level arcane spells at 5th+ character level then just buy some scrolls or wands for the few times you'd actually need to.

What's the Spell domain got? Limited Wish. Everything else is superfluous or not worth the effort until Disjunction. Limited Wish is pretty dang powerful, but I don't pick domains based on a single 7th level spell or the assumption that I'll just happen to have the convenience of acquiring a spellbook with every spell I could ever want in it.

Of course if you really can't choose then just take a level of Contemplative and pick up the one you don't have at the level where 6th+ spells are actually kicking in.


Now, the phrasing of "interested in the arcane arts" in the question makes it stop being a question. The Magic domain has nothing to do with "the arcane arts," it just lets you activate more magic items. Anyspell lets you participate in "the arcane arts" by preparing arcane spells from an arcane book of arcaneness, so it sounds to me like the answer was already in the question. But if the question is just Magic vs Spell, I've already got my answer. Characters are characters, not char-op theory, and while Limited Wish and preparation of 5th level sor/wiz spells is theoretically huge, in actuality I'd rather just have the ability to roll to activate a scroll of Limited Wish and auto-activate most lower level spells while also having useful domain spells. Even in the "but can you actually buy that?" field, a scroll of Limited Wish is a single item you can easily commission or source from some planar vendor, while a spellbook full of the specific spells you want. . . not so much.

[sleepyphoenixx]

Anyspell is overrated. The whole point of the Cleric is that you have the entire Cleric spell list, why would you make a point of getting a couple daily spell slots that require a spellbook which you have to acquire completely separately? You can trade 3rds for 1sts or 2nds, and 6ths for 3-5ths. The secret is that the only part of the arcanist role which is actually necessary is the combat, which takes more than just a couple domain slots per day. Aside from crowd-control and direct attacks, the Cleric already gets all the stuff people like to attribute to Wizards by 6th level spells. Fly? Air Walk. Teleport? Word of Recall. Plane Shift? Actually gets it sooner. What 2nd level sor/wiz spells are so important they're worth that investment, what 3rd-5th spell can you not already do with a 6th? There's a high chance that whatever specific effect you want like say, Dimension Door or Knock or something, is already on a different domain list with a better domain ability backing it up.
It's actually any arcane spell, not just sorc/wiz. Between Anyspell and its greater version that includes nearly all the bard-only spells. And all the spells bards get at a lower level.
Also a lot from PrCs assuming you can get them, which is admittedly rather unlikely in practice unless they're in your party.

Buying a spellbook for it is basically buying cheaper scrolls that don't run out. Or you could just share the party wizards book if you have one.
Keep in mind that the standard fee to copy from another wizards spellbook is only 50gp/spell level. That's very affordable even before you compare it to buying scrolls. It gets vastly more affordable than scrolls once we're talking about Greater Anyspell - 4th and 5th level scrolls are pretty expensive after all.
Really the bigger issue with it isn't money but time. Scribing spells takes 48 hours per spell after all.
You can also often pick up spellbooks as loot from enemy spellcasters, but it is an issue in fast-paced campaigns, though there's items to get around it like the Quill of Rapid Scrivening or Necklace of the Phantom Library.

As for things already being on a different domain list with a better ability? Yeah, sure, sometimes, but even then those domains don't have ALL of them. That's the big selling point.
Any comparison of the domains spell lists just falls flat in the face of the sheer versatility (Greater) Anyspell offers.

The Magic domains ability also suffers in comparison because few spells actually stay useful when cast with minimum CL/DC.

And of course both domains need you to actually play in a way that takes advantage of their strengths. If you're never going to use wizard scrolls/wands or actually bother picking up spells to use with Anyspell neither will do you much good.

[Cosi]

Why not both? A Cleric with the Spell and Magic domains has easy access to Dweomerkeeper. You're presumably already taking metamagic feats (go go gadget DMM!) so you're only real cost to get in is that you need to take a magic item crafting feat and make an item. Then you get into a very nice PrC which gives you powerful tools to leverage your domains. In particular, you get Supernatural Spell, which works incredibly well with limited wish, particularly if you add it to your Mantle of Spells.


Fly? Air Walk. Teleport? Word of Recall. Plane Shift? Actually gets it sooner.

word of recall is pretty different in effect from teleport. So is fly versus air walk, but that one is kind of irrelevant, because you have to use greater anyspell to get fly, and at that point you should be grabbing overland flight which is superior to both.


What 2nd level sor/wiz spells are so important they're worth that investment, what 3rd-5th spell can you not already do with a 6th? There's a high chance that whatever specific effect you want like say, Dimension Door or Knock or something, is already on a different domain list with a better domain ability backing it up.

But if you might want both of those things, you can't get them out of one domain. This is a very basic power versus versatility tradeoff.

[Ramza00]

Why Not Both is the correct answer. You choose both so you can go into an awesome prestige class Dweomerkeeper from Complete Divine Web Enhancement which requires the magic domain, and even though it does not require the spell domain the class is just that good and the spell domain is great. Links to the PDF http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20040522a

But let me advocate the opposite if you do not go into Dweomerkeeper. This below option gives you the best parts of the Magic Domain

You should do this if your ECL is 6 or higher
Knowledge Domain (Cloistered Cleric)
Spell Domain (One of the Two Domain options clerics naturally get.)
The Divine Magician as the 2nd of the two domain options you naturally get. It is from Complete Mage and here is a handbook for it. http://minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=1329.0

What about The Magic Domain's sweet Domain Granted Ability? I am getting to that :smallwink::smallcool::smallbiggrin:

And then take the feat Planar Touchstone: Catalogues of Enlightenment. Catalogues of Enlightenment allows you to choose a cleric domain and get its granted power without being a cleric, or adding another domain granted power to an existing cleric. Furthermore you do not even need to go the the Touchstone location to get this power just take the feat and find an item connected to the location.

But if you do decide to visit the Catalogues of Enlightenment you get to debate a Philosopher / Knowledge expert in a knowledge check of +18 (ranks+int modifier) in one of the 4 subjects chosen randomly (arcana, nature, religion, the planes). Beat him in this knowledge check and now you get the higher granted power which you can use 3 times before coming back and recharging the higher granted power again, this time spending 1d4 weeks in the library (so 7 min, 28 max, average 14 to 21 days) updating / improving its contents.

What is the Higher Level Ability? Once a day you can cast any spell from the Magic Domain as if it was already prepared. Since the magic domain does not really have many good spells, or it has good spells you get as normal cleric spells anyway for the most part, this fufill any use where you just need a dispel magic on the fly, or another spell from this domain.

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Another option instead of picking Divine Magician as your 2nd domain is the Rune Domain from the SRD http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/domains.htm#runeDomain

Use the Rune Domain to get a free Scribe Scroll feat and marginally better spells than the Magic Domain.