Advice on Moon Bow Archfey Warlock [Archive] - Giant in the Playground Forums

Imriel

2018-07-31, 05:11 AM

Hi everybody!
I'm working on my first 5e character ever and chose to go for an Eladrin Warlock with Archfey Pact. Our DM is very rp based, woth little heavily strategic combat here and there, so I went for a illusion/enchantment caster with a strong ranged dmage option woth the Moon Bow invocation.

I wanted some feedback/advice from more experienced players of 5e (I'm a veteran 3.5 and Pathfinder player). Here's my build for level 5, from which we're gonna start the campaign.

Also, our DM gave us relative freedom on background traits, so you'll find some custom ones I designed (already approved) and some mixed stuff taken from other backgrounds.

ASHLE
Eladrin Elf Archfey Warlock, Chaotic Neutral
(Level 5 - Custom background “Unseelie Agent” )

PROFICIENCIES

Armor: Light armor
Weapons: Simple weapons, Pact weapon
Tools: Disguise Kit (Double proficiency from Background and Feat)
Saving Throws: Wisdom, Charisma
Skills: Investigation, Deception (Class), Perception (Racial), Insight, Stealth (Background)
Languages: Common, Elvish

FEATS
Master of Disguise

BACKGROUND TRAITS

IDEAL
Change: life is like the seasons, in constant change, and we must change with it.
(Taken from the Outlander background)

BOND
One Soul, Two People: your long gone twin sister’s soul is trapped in the Abyss and you must do everything in your power to save her.
(Custom)

PERSONALITY TRAITS AND FLAWS
Mistrust of Clerics m: due to a past betrayal, you despise members of religious organizations and these people will have a harder time earning your trust.
(Custom)
Seasons: your personality changes with the season you’re associated with on each day.
Autumn
Trait: there are no simple meals, only lavish feasts.
Flaw: you spend excessively on creature comforts.
Winter
Trait: a penny spent is a penny lost forever.
Flaw: your needs come first. In winter, all must watch out for themselves.
Spring
Trait: everyday is the greatest day of your life.
Flaw: you overdrink.
Summer
Trait: you believe that direct confrontation is the best way to solve problems.
Flaw: punch first. Talk later.
(Taken from the racial features of Eladrin Elves)

BACKGROUND FEATURE
Safe Heaven: as a faction agent, you have access to a secret network of supporters and operatives who can provide assistance on your adventures. You know a set of secret signs and passwords you can use to identify such operatives, who can provide you with access to a hidden safe house, free room and board, or assistance in finding information. These agents never risk their lives for you or risk revealing their true identities.
(Taken from the Faction Agent background)

RACIAL FEATURES

Darkvision
Fey Ancestry
Fey Step

CLASS FEATURES

Fey Presence
Pact of the Blade

ELDRITCH INVOCATIONS

Mask of Many Faces
Moon Bow
Thirsting Blade

SPELLS
Spell Slots: 2/short rest
Slot Level: 3rd
Spells Known: 6

CANTRIPS

Eldritch Blast
Prestidigitation
Minor Illusion

FIRST LEVEL

Sleep
Hex
Charm Person

SECOND LEVEL

Invisibility
Suggestion

THIRD LEVEL

Enemies Abound

EQUIPMENT
Starting wealth: 500 gp
Total expense: 361 gp and 2 sp
Available wealth: 138 gp and 8 sp
Total weight on character: 56 lb

WEAPONS

Moon Bow (Pact Weapon, 2 lb when evoked)
Dagger x2 (4 gp, 2 lb)

ARMOR AND CLOTHING

Studded Leather (45 gp, 13 lb)
Traveler’s clothes (2 gp, 4 lb)

ADVENTURING GEAR

Backpack (2 gp, 5 lb)
Bedroll (1 gp, 7 lb)
Component pouch (25 gp, 2 lb)
Disguise Kit (25 gp, 3 lb)
Waterskin (2 sp, 5 lb)
Rations x4 (2 gp, 8 lb)
Perfume, vial (5 gp)
Potion of healing x2 (100 gp, 1 lb)
Truth Serum (150 gp)

Aett_Thorn

2018-07-31, 05:47 AM

It seems like your character is pretty complete. What were you looking for help with on it?

Imriel

2018-07-31, 06:15 AM

I just wanted to see if more experienced players had any advice to give me on build/equipment, and if it does make sense as a character.

Mikal

2018-07-31, 07:04 AM

Moon bow isn’t valid any longer. It’s been rolled into hex blade

Exocist

2018-07-31, 07:06 AM

CANTRIPS

Eldritch Blast
Prestidigitation
Minor Illusion

FIRST LEVEL

Sleep
Hex
Charm Person

SECOND LEVEL

Invisibility
Suggestion

THIRD LEVEL

Enemies Abound

While I personally think Shadar-Kai are better (mechanically) than Eladrin, for RP purposes Eladrin are probably better.

I would suggest ditching Sleep for Armor of Agathys. Sleep isn't very useful at the level you're at, whereas AoA can be invaluable towards helping people not attack you. It can even work to prevent combat - you are covered in a frosty aura, dude #1 goes in for the attack and becomes frozen solid - roll to intimidate the rest of them.

I would go for Major Image or Hypnotic Pattern over Enemies Abound.

I think Charm Person is redundant considering you have Suggestion, so I would recommend taking another spell in its place.

Imriel

2018-07-31, 08:35 AM

Moon bow isn’t valid any longer. It’s been rolled into hex blade

I know but I really don't think Hexblade fits well with the flavor of the character I have in mind. Archfey is way more interesting a patron RP wise imho, Hexblade is way too much "Warcraft III"-like 😂

While I personally think Shadar-Kai are better (mechanically) than Eladrin, for RP purposes Eladrin are probably better.

I would suggest ditching Sleep for Armor of Agathys. Sleep isn't very useful at the level you're at, whereas AoA can be invaluable towards helping people not attack you. It can even work to prevent combat - you are covered in a frosty aura, dude #1 goes in for the attack and becomes frozen solid - roll to intimidate the rest of them.

I would go for Major Image or Hypnotic Pattern over Enemies Abound.

I think Charm Person is redundant considering you have Suggestion, so I would recommend taking another spell in its place.

Thank you so much for your suggestions!
I'm going for Eladrin due to RP flavor, so I totally agree. Fun fact, my DM decided we're gonna roll the season I'm attuned to every long rest with a D4, so I'm gonna be a sort of bipolar elf who changes mood completely from a day to another. A lot of fun to play! 😂

Coming to spells, I'm definitely gonna ditch charm person and sleep then! I like Major Image but I don't think it's that good before level 6, right? Cause it only lasts 10 mins at level 5 and needs concentration, I was going to take it later on. But AoA sounds actually very good and I'm gonna go for it! For 3rd level, I really like Enemies Abound as a diversive possibility, cause it goes on INT save and even if it only lasts 1 minute, casted in the right environment can cause quite a mess that can go on for hours. Like, think about making a random guy punch his neighbor in the face in a crowded tavern.... 😂

But if I ditch a 1st level spell like Charm Person, I can get another 3rd level one. I was considering Tongues, cause the character has a spy-like flavor and being able to understand everybody might be quite a good idea.

What do you think?

QuickLyRaiNbow

2018-07-31, 08:58 AM

I think enemies abound is really quite good. It targets the worst save for the creatures you want to use it on. It can be combat-ending used at the right time.

I'm AFB at the moment - is phantasmal force an option?

Segev

2018-07-31, 09:00 AM

What does "Moon Bow" actually do? Which book's it printed in?

Malifice

2018-07-31, 09:00 AM

OP, I love you.

Youre the first person to post a character (with flaws, bonds etc) and not just seeking a mechanical 'build'.

Kudos. Wish I saw more of it.

QuickLyRaiNbow

2018-07-31, 09:09 AM

What does "Moon Bow" actually do? Which book's it printed in?

It's in the Warlocks and Wizards UA. It allows creating a longbow as a Pact weapon, burning spell slots for bonus damage and gives bonuses against lycanthropes.

Exocist

2018-07-31, 09:25 AM

But if I ditch a 1st level spell like Charm Person, I can get another 3rd level one. I was considering Tongues, cause the character has a spy-like flavor and being able to understand everybody might be quite a good idea.

What do you think?

I think Hypnotic Pattern is a great spell that can help you sneak into places you shouldn't be in (KO all the guards by making them look at pretty lights). It would also give you an Area of Effect spell.

If it fits the character, go for it. As far as Combat goes, you should be sorted with Hex, Armor of Agathys, Suggestion & Hypnotic Pattern/Enemies Abound. Rest is really up to you, if it fits the character go for it.

Imriel

2018-07-31, 09:50 AM

OP, I love you.

Youre the first person to post a character (with flaws, bonds etc) and not just seeking a mechanical 'build'.

Kudos. Wish I saw more of it.

Thank you! ❤️ Well I really like hardcore mechanics character building, but I also think a good character needs to originate from a clear background/flavor/RP idea. My philosophy as a player is "if you have to pick between the powerful option or the cool/flavorish option, pick the latter" 😂

I think Hypnotic Pattern is a great spell that can help you sneak into places you shouldn't be in (KO all the guards by making them look at pretty lights). It would also give you an Area of Effect spell.

If it fits the character, go for it. As far as Combat goes, you should be sorted with Hex, Armor of Agathys, Suggestion & Hypnotic Pattern/Enemies Abound. Rest is really up to you, if it fits the character go for it.

That's quite a good point! I'll definitely consider it, if not now later on! I also have a small racial mass charm option, fey presence, which lasts for just one round but it's not bad at all.

Thank you again for your help! 💪

Mikal

2018-07-31, 09:53 AM

I know but I really don't think Hexblade fits well with the flavor of the character I have in mind. Archfey is way more interesting a patron RP wise imho, Hexblade is way too much "Warcraft III"-like 😂

In that case I'd recommend an Archfey Warlock (with whatever pact)/Bard or Arcane Archer Fighter.

If you have a specific flavor, you should try and match it within the existing rules, not using ones no longer valid.

ImproperJustice

2018-07-31, 10:03 AM

In that case I'd recommend an Archfey Warlock (with whatever pact)/Bard or Arcane Archer Fighter.

If you have a specific flavor, you should try and match it within the existing rules, not using ones no longer valid.

If his GM allows UA material, then his build is completely “valid”.
Moon Bow has some flavor that the OP find appealing, and it’s not really hurting anything.

Besides, I agree that hexblade is too emo / grimdark most of the time.
If push comes to shove, there is the greater magic weapon invocation and eldritch smite to recreate the Moon Bow.

thepsyker

2018-07-31, 10:08 AM

If his GM allows UA material, then his build is completely “valid”.
Moon Bow has some flavor that the OP find appealing, and it’s not really hurting anything.

Besides, I agree that hexblade is too emo / grimdark most of the time.
If push comes to shove, there is the greater magic weapon invocation and eldritch smite to recreate the Moon Bow.

It has been a while since I read the Moonbow rules, does it do anything beyond what the greater magic weapon invocation does?

Imriel

2018-07-31, 10:14 AM

If his GM allows UA material, then his build is completely “valid”.
Moon Bow has some flavor that the OP find appealing, and it’s not really hurting anything.

Besides, I agree that hexblade is too emo / grimdark most of the time.
If push comes to shove, there is the greater magic weapon invocation and eldritch smite to recreate the Moon Bow.

I wanna take that invocation AND moonbow at higher levels, for the arcane focus property. Also, the DM literally forced me into taking the Disguise Self invocation, so it's just fair to let me take one UA invocation in exchange 😂

Anyway, as the whole party is abusing UA stuff, I mean why not?

Imriel

2018-07-31, 10:15 AM

It has been a while since I read the Moonbow rules, does it do anything beyond what the greater magic weapon invocation does?

It has a stronger dice burst, it creates ammunition when you pull the string and has advantage against lycanthropes, but at the price of "bow only".

Seekergeek

2018-07-31, 10:16 AM

It has been a while since I read the Moonbow rules, does it do anything beyond what the greater magic weapon invocation does?

Strictly speaking I think moonbow is probably a bit worse than improved pact weapon except in the circumstances one is shooting arrows at lycanthropes. If it were me, which it isnt, I'd probably go for IPW over moonbow.

Edit: I misremembered the built in smite, which I wrongly recalled only applied to lycanthropes. I guess it's a bit of a tradeoff, then. +1 to hit and damage along with acting as a focus vs. built-in eldritch smite. I played a hexblade through TOA and found I never really wanted to burn a spell slot on smite so I'd still lean away from moonbow personally. Especially with tasty treats like faerie fire or greater invisibility to eat up a spell slot instead.

Segev

2018-07-31, 10:18 AM

Is there a reason to go Moonbow over just using eldritch blast?

Seekergeek

2018-07-31, 10:20 AM

Is there a reason to go Moonbow over just using eldritch blast?

Flavour? The man has a pretty clear idea of what he wants to accomplish.

Mortis_Elrod

2018-07-31, 10:32 AM

ok so first, i like your concept. Not enough archfey locks hangin around.

But just so you know, you do not need to be a hexblade to have a longbow as your pact weapon. You merely need either a magical longbow or Improved Pact Weapon invocation. Personally i do not like to use outdated material and i like being able to change my pact weapon to whatever i please on the spot, but i understand that you want to have the moonbow specifically for the arrow creation and the lycanthrope seeking effect. Wouldn't do it myself but you do you boo.

That said, instead of Charm person you may want Hunger of Hadar. I don't think you need to double down on the charming people thing, especially if you have deception. Now i know you not the big spell blasting sort, but just having that single option might be fruitful. You'd still have Suggestion and your Fey Presence to use should you need the charming plus some good skill rolls.

I also don't like hex, and would instead use Faerie Fire. Seems more flavorful to you too.

Willie the Duck

2018-07-31, 10:41 AM

To the OP: since you asked for advice: this might sounds strange, but why pick up Eldritch Blast? Yes, of course, you could lose your bow, but you could also have someone get up in melee with you, in which case you might want a better protection retreat cantrip (or of course another utility one).

Is there a reason to go Moonbow over just using eldritch blast?

Flavour? The man has a pretty clear idea of what he wants to accomplish.

The mechanical answers include +1 weapons, bracers of archery, the Sharpshooter feat, 1 level fighter dip for archery fighting style... but yeah, fey warlock who is an archer makes more sense than anything else I've seen in a while.

ok so first, i like your concept. Not enough archfey locks hangin around.

I think archfey used to be the 'most-likely-to-be-good' thematic slot until celestial warlocks came around. Certainly used to see more archfey tomelocks (either Shillelagh-basher or support spells like Guidance) and Chainlocks (pseudodragons) around. Never did see many bladelocks, but if you used a bow (outside UA), I can totally see why you would try.

Exocist

2018-07-31, 10:44 AM

Is there a reason to go Moonbow over just using eldritch blast?

The damage on the smite is massive dude. 2d8 per level of spell slot invested, no cap. BBEG? More like BBGG after he takes 20d8 worth of smite to the face.

Also flavour, I'm pretty sure it's actually the worst of the Hexblade UA Pact Weapons weapons (Moonbow/Mace of Dispater/Cursebringer).

Mortis_Elrod

2018-07-31, 10:49 AM

The damage on the smite is massive dude. 2d8 per level of spell slot invested, no cap. BBEG? More like BBGG after he takes 20d8 worth of smite to the face.

Also flavour, I'm pretty sure it's actually the worst of the UA Pact weapons (Moonbow/Mace of Dispater/Cursebringer).

fixed. thats starting to bug me. Hexblade is not synonymous with Pact of the Blade.

RSP

2018-07-31, 10:54 AM

You don’t need Eldritch Blast and the longbow, so you could take a different cantrip.

Also, Fear is a fantastic spell that can absolutely wreck encounters.

Degwerks

2018-07-31, 11:09 AM

If you want to multiclass at all later, I think Arcane Archer or College of Whispers Bard will fit your RP flavor perfectly.

Exocist

2018-07-31, 09:10 PM

fixed. thats starting to bug me. Hexblade is not synonymous with Pact of the Blade.

Whoops, sorry. I call them the Hexblade weapons because they're in the same UA as the Hexblade.

I suppose it is more correct to call them UA Pact Weapons.

Talionis

2018-07-31, 09:26 PM

There is the third level Ranger spell fire arrow that might be good from XGtE.

I didnt see your Stats listed but if you have 13 strength you might want to dip three levels in Divine Paladin for the + Charisma bonus to accuracy from its channel divinity feat.

But anything with spell slots will help you have fuel for your Moon Bow... Bard maybe the best option to get a lot of slots for uour Bow and to pick up Ranger spells.

I apologize in advance if you said you wanted to stay Warlick and i missed that fact.

Imriel

2018-08-01, 08:41 AM

Thank you all for your advice!
DM eventually realized this was too op and ruled out UA material altogether 😂

So gonna take improved pact weapon and later on Eldritch Smite 😂

Mortis_Elrod

2018-08-01, 09:07 AM

Thank you all for your advice!
DM eventually realized this was too op and ruled out UA material altogether 😂

So gonna take improved pact weapon and later on Eldritch Smite 😂

At level 5 you’d have 3 invos so you could take them all.

But I think he made you take mask of many faces for some reason right ? No problem just wait til level 7 or switch it at 6

Imriel

2018-08-01, 09:10 AM

Yeah he made me take Mask of Many Faces so I have to wait until 7 for the Smite!

Mikal

2018-08-01, 09:12 AM

Yeah he made me take Mask of Many Faces so I have to wait until 7 for the Smite!

No you don't. You can swap one existing invocation for another one every time you level. Even if he forces you to take Mask of Many Faces at level 5, you can use one of your previous invocation slots to get Eldritch Smite at the same time, then at level 6 swap your third invocation slot for Improved Pact Weapon. Or do IPW at 5 and ES at 6, however you like.

Imriel

2018-08-01, 09:15 AM

Mikal

2018-08-01, 09:17 AM

Well I could but the Mask I have to keep, so I can take that, improved pact weapon and thirsting blade, at level 7 I wi go for smite. My damage will suffer a bit from it but I can just hex and att the d6 💪

Honestly I've never gotten much mileage out of Eldritch Smite. Your limited spell slots can almost always be used for better things (like Shadow of Moil, Banishment, etc), though it's good to have in your pocket for crits.

I'd say it's even less useful for you, since the extra effect actually causes you disadvantage on attacks against the target until they get up again.

RSP

2018-08-01, 09:27 AM

Honestly I've never gotten much mileage out of Eldritch Smite. Your limited spell slots can almost always be used for better things (like Shadow of Moil, Banishment, etc), though it's good to have in your pocket for crits.

I'd say it's even less useful for you, since the extra effect actually causes you disadvantage on attacks against the target until they get up again.

I’ll second this. Particularly on a ranged Warlock (less danger of hits and losing Concentration), 1-3 Hex will be better (+1d6 per attack [+2d6/round] all day, is a better use of a slot than +2d8-+6d8 on one attack), and at 4 and 5th level slots, Shadow of Moil is great as well (though better on a melee d/t retribution damage).

Though if just focusing on damage, getting Hex up and then using slots for smites is fine, though then you’re out if you lose Hex.

Mortis_Elrod

2018-08-01, 09:48 AM

Don’t listen to these fools. Grab that smite. Nothing compares to when you absolutely positively got to kill that one guy, right then and now.

Just smite on the second shot. At level 7 that’s a +5d8 as a possible boss killer button.

Sure Hex and stuff is technically more consistent. But I have had zero fun with that spell.

Take the super arrow. Nobody is saying use it all the time. But what else would an Eldritch Archer have as a ace in the hole? What other invocations would you get at 7 ? Devil sight? You’re passed those darkness shenanigans.

I’m not seeing anything more useful

Segev

2018-08-01, 10:00 AM

What other invocations would you get at 7 ? Devil sight? You’re passed those darkness shenanigans.

Wait, what? How are you "past darkness shenanigans" at level 7?

RSP

2018-08-01, 10:10 AM

Wait, what? How are you "past darkness shenanigans" at level 7?

4th level spell slot used for SoM is better than for Darkness, I believe is the main reasoning.

The DM is making the OP take Mask of Many Faces invocation as a requirement for the character. So Moon Bow and MoMF at 3, and add Thirsting Blade at 5. At 7 they can add IPW for the +1 and casting focus, or get Eldritch Smite.

Imriel

2018-08-01, 10:12 AM

Mortis_Elrod

2018-08-01, 10:36 AM

Wait, what? How are you "past darkness shenanigans" at level 7?

IMO that playstyle quickly becomes stale or you run into things that can see through it, of which there are plenty of various types and CRs.

That and I doubt that’s the way OP wants to play his character.

I’m not about to cast darkness with a level 4 slot. I’d rather make someone go Boom.

Darkness at 7th level? Or Sickening Radiance? First level exhaustion is Disad on all ability checks that’s pretty nifty, and the invisibility counter and damage is not too shabby.

Darkness or Shadow of Moil?
Darkness or Humger of Hadar ? Sure you won’t see through it but you can just wait till they finally leave the tentacled cold dark prison. Then plonk them in a the face. A lot more fun than Darkness.

At what point do you drop the darkness ? Or is that something you consider viable or worth it at all levels?

Mikal

2018-08-01, 10:37 AM

I actually like the possibility of a huge nova burst so I'm very keen to get Smite as a good attack option. I can still decide wether I wanna hex for a possibly longer fight or go all in with a double smite on first round.

Take Sharpshooter. You'll do nearly the same damage, ignore most cover, and you can do it all day vs. maybe 2 times a short rest. Your spells are better placed elsewhere than a mini-nova when you can do nearly comparable damage via Sharpshooter

Mortis_Elrod

2018-08-01, 10:40 AM

Take Sharpshooter. You'll do nearly the same damage, ignore most cover, and you can do it all day vs. maybe 2 times a short rest. Your spells are better placed elsewhere than a mini-nova when you can do nearly comparable damage via Sharpshooter

No reason he can’t take both. For the Ultra Nova

Also 10 damage does not come close to 5d8

Mikal

2018-08-01, 10:42 AM

No reason he can’t take both. For the Ultra Nova

True, I just found in practice spell slots are usually better placed with SoM/Hex or something similar. Personally, I'd hold the smite until I critted in that case, if you're super novaing might as well double the dice...

And average damage on 5d8 is 22.5... which you can do twice in a short rest, leaving you no other options.
The 10 damage on Sharpshooter becomes comparable when you realize you can do it say, every round for 3+ rounds, vs. 2 times only. Short bursts that sap your magical power which you can use for potentially better effects is comparable to less, but more potential consistent damage.

Say you get into two fights before you can short rest, first one lasts 2 rounds against a single creature, second one lasts 8 rounds against multiple creatures.

With Eldritch Smite, at most you're getting 160 damage on two attacks (max damage plus crits somehow), and that's losing the ability to cast SoM or other decent spells (we'll say you hexed at the start of the day so you just transfer it around) on two smites.
With Sharpshooter, you can get up to 100 damage, if you're using the powershot on every attack, and you're much more likely to hit that number than you would the 160 on Eldritch Smite. In addition, instead of it being focused on two enemies and thus potentially 'wasting' a lot of damage on overkill, you can spread it out more efficiently.

Just my two cents. If you want to just roll a ton of dice for rolling a ton of dice, go Eldritch Smite.

Mortis_Elrod

2018-08-01, 10:50 AM

True, I just found in practice spell slots are usually better placed with SoM/Hex or something similar. Personally, I'd hold the smite until I critted in that case, if you're super novaing might as well double the dice...

And average damage on 5d8 is 22.5... which you can do twice in a short rest, leaving you no other options.
The 10 damage on Sharpshooter becomes comparable when you realize you can do it say, every round for 3+ rounds, vs. 2 times only. Short bursts that sap your magical power which you can use for potentially better effects is comparable to less, but more potential consistent damage.

And that’s great, sharpshooter is awesome.

But what happens when your team is downed and you don’t have 3+ turns to pluck away at The big bad wolf? That’s where Smite shines and shines like no other.

I’m not saying it’s something to rely on every fight. But when you need it accept it with no substitutes, at least for a bowman.

Mikal

2018-08-01, 10:52 AM

And that’s great, sharpshooter is awesome.

But what happens when your team is downed and you don’t have 3+ turns to pluck away at The big bad wolf? That’s where Smite shines and shines like no other.

I’m not saying it’s something to rely on every fight. But when you need it accept it with no substitutes, at least for a bowman.

Great. You have one example where it would be useful (when you really need extra damage right then and there). Is that worth an invocation slot? Meh...

Mortis_Elrod

2018-08-01, 11:05 AM

Great. You have one example where it would be useful (when you really need extra damage right then and there). Is that worth an invocation slot? Meh...

Compared to other options? Yeah. Cuz when it’s needed its really needed. Also you can just end fights at a glance. Nothing does what this invocation does, and when it does it it does it well.

It’s a nice back pocket solution. Also perfect against flying bosses. Instant prone, probable death, the bane of dragons.

That’s like saying fireball not worth it because it’s not as good when there’s a single guy or enemies spread out.

With OPs build what other invocation do you get at 7th? For me it’s Smite every time. I’m looking at the others and I’m not seeing anything I like

Segev

2018-08-01, 11:09 AM

IMO that playstyle quickly becomes stale or you run into things that can see through it, of which there are plenty of various types and CRs.

That and I doubt that’s the way OP wants to play his character.

I’m not about to cast darkness with a level 4 slot. I’d rather make someone go Boom.

Darkness at 7th level? Or Sickening Radiance? First level exhaustion is Disad on all ability checks that’s pretty nifty, and the invisibility counter and damage is not too shabby.

Darkness or Shadow of Moil?
Darkness or Humger of Hadar ? Sure you won’t see through it but you can just wait till they finally leave the tentacled cold dark prison. Then plonk them in a the face. A lot more fun than Darkness.

At what point do you drop the darkness ? Or is that something you consider viable or worth it at all levels?

My personal preference is to (ab)use the selectively seethrough nature of silent image, which doesn't require Devil's Sight or darkness, but is a little more DM-dependent on just how effective it is. (My preferred illusion is of a fog bank, though of a "darkness spell's area" works, too.)

But if you're using the unquestionably-effective darkness+Devil's Sight, I don't see why it loses effectiveness at higher level. Controlling Advantage for your attacks and being able to negate it for enemies (or outright grant them Disadvantage) is always useful, unless you're so good that you're hitting no matter what and always being missed.

But it does depend on what else you're using your Concentration. If you're flying around the battlefield, for instance, as a regular tactic, then you probably have lost darkness as a go-to. That said, Devil's Sight is still head-and-shoulders better than a lot of things: it lets you see clearly, in color, in all manner of darkness. I recently learned that Darkvision only lets you treat darkness as dim light; Devil's Sight is that much better.

RSP

2018-08-01, 11:20 AM

My personal preference is to (ab)use the selectively seethrough nature of silent image, which doesn't require Devil's Sight or darkness, but is a little more DM-dependent on just how effective it is. (My preferred illusion is of a fog bank, though of a "darkness spell's area" works, too.)

But if you're using the unquestionably-effective darkness+Devil's Sight, I don't see why it loses effectiveness at higher level. Controlling Advantage for your attacks and being able to negate it for enemies (or outright grant them Disadvantage) is always useful, unless you're so good that you're hitting no matter what and always being missed.

But it does depend on what else you're using your Concentration. If you're flying around the battlefield, for instance, as a regular tactic, then you probably have lost darkness as a go-to. That said, Devil's Sight is still head-and-shoulders better than a lot of things: it lets you see clearly, in color, in all manner of darkness. I recently learned that Darkvision only lets you treat darkness as dim light; Devil's Sight is that much better.

After getting 4th level slots it’s outclassed by SoM:

Darkness, 15’ radius darkness (can screw over other PCs), grants Adv on attacks you make, Disadvantage on attacks against you. Costs 4th level spell slot and an invocation.

SoM, 10’ radius dim or darkness (less area to mess with PCs and Darkvision works in it anyway), grants Adv onsttacks you make, Disadvantage on attacks against you and does 2d8 retribution damage on melee hits against you. Costs 4th level spell slot.

SoM is an upgrade over the Darkness/Devils Sight combo (thou Devils Sight is still a good invocation on its own merits).

Mortis_Elrod

2018-08-01, 11:24 AM

My personal preference is to (ab)use the selectively seethrough nature of silent image, which doesn't require Devil's Sight or darkness, but is a little more DM-dependent on just how effective it is. (My preferred illusion is of a fog bank, though of a "darkness spell's area" works, too.)

But if you're using the unquestionably-effective darkness+Devil's Sight, I don't see why it loses effectiveness at higher level. Controlling Advantage for your attacks and being able to negate it for enemies (or outright grant them Disadvantage) is always useful, unless you're so good that you're hitting no matter what and always being missed.

But it does depend on what else you're using your Concentration. If you're flying around the battlefield, for instance, as a regular tactic, then you probably have lost darkness as a go-to. That said, Devil's Sight is still head-and-shoulders better than a lot of things: it lets you see clearly, in color, in all manner of darkness. I recently learned that Darkvision only lets you treat darkness as dim light; Devil's Sight is that much better.

Ok true, I like Misty Visions too. But consider OPs role and character, probable play style. It be better to let the other people in the party control the battleField, they got more slots for it, more options too. In this scenario you wanna hit hard when you need to.

It’s a good strat, has its place certainly. But when you need might nothing beats smite.

And if you want to get rid of that dimlight stuff, Skulker is right there, and a great pick up on stealthy ranged characters

Segev

2018-08-01, 11:38 AM

Ok true, I like Misty Visions too. But consider OPs role and character, probable play style. It be better to let the other people in the party control the battleField, they got more slots for it, more options too. In this scenario you wanna hit hard when you need to.

It’s a good strat, has its place certainly. But when you need might nothing beats smite.

And if you want to get rid of that dimlight stuff, Skulker is right there, and a great pick up on stealthy ranged characters

Misty Visions actually lets you share the battlefield vision advantage with your allies. They key is to have a code word or signal you give that your allies know means, "This visual impediment I'm calling up is an illusion." Whether fog or darkness, them knowing it's an illusion justifies them making that Investigation check ASAP, and may (depending on the DM) let them do so with Advantage. Heck, it COULD let them pass it automatically, but that isn't in the RAW.

I also think, now that you mention it, Misty Visions is pretty appropriate for a Feylock archer.

Mortis_Elrod

2018-08-01, 11:42 AM

Misty Visions actually lets you share the battlefield vision advantage with your allies. They key is to have a code word or signal you give that your allies know means, "This visual impediment I'm calling up is an illusion." Whether fog or darkness, them knowing it's an illusion justifies them making that Investigation check ASAP, and may (depending on the DM) let them do so with Advantage. Heck, it COULD let them pass it automatically, but that isn't in the RAW.

I also think, now that you mention it, Misty Visions is pretty appropriate for a Feylock archer.

Certainly an option. If his mask of many faces wasn’t locked in I’d say Misty Visions would be right to his alley for 7th level. I’ve made such a character myself.