Hunters mark outside of DnD?

[BeefGood]

I don’t “get” hunters mark in the sense that I don’t know of the concept occurring outside of DnD. I can’t think of a real-world equivalent, or of an equivalent in fiction.
The closest I get is wounding a foe and the blood trail making it easier to track. But that’s not Hunters Mark.
Any ideas?

[Unoriginal]

Why does it need to exist outside of DnD?

That being said, there are more than one character in fiction who acquires a kind of power over those they wound.

[Dungeon-noob]

Personally, i consider it the Ranger magical equivalent of fighter lock or something similar. You have the target in your crosshairs, you hit their weakspots better, and they have a harder time getting away from you. Though i do agree it's one of the weirder spells to visualize.

[youtellatale]

I don’t “get” hunters mark in the sense that I don’t know of the concept occurring outside of DnD. I can’t think of a real-world equivalent, or of an equivalent in fiction.
The closest I get is wounding a foe and the blood trail making it easier to track. But that’s not Hunters Mark.
Any ideas?

Think of it as an extreme focus. So locked in on one enemy that the ranger singularly focuses and has no other purpose than to destroy this enemy. I can't think of a specific literary example but I feel like this is quite common.

[Willie the Duck]

It seems to be a bald-faced gamist interpretation of the basic concept that rangers are especially good at tracking, stalking, and killing their specific quarry. That's true if you see them as hunters, as 'giant type'-stalkers (the 1e interpretation of rangers), as 'some specific thing'-stalkers (2e-3e version), or as Aragorn (original inspiration).

The whole 'rangers are spellcasters' thing was a gamist mechanic (after all, rules for spells already existed, yet a skill system pretty much didn't) at the time in oD&D when they were conceived, with barely a hand-wave to Aragorn being good with herbs and the like. Since then the ranger mental construct has drifted from Aragorn (and one of the complaints I hear most often is that the construct is entirely to nebulous), but the spellcasting thing has taken on a life of its own. Given that we need a few examples of 1/2 casters (along with paladins, and frankly we could use 1-2 more), I like keeping them spellcasters, but that does mean that there are going to be some spells where you ask, 'what exactly is this supposed to be/emulate?'

[KorvinStarmast]

I don’t “get” hunters mark in the sense that I don’t know of the concept occurring outside of DnD. I can’t think of a real-world equivalent, or of an equivalent in fiction.
The closest I get is wounding a foe and the blood trail making it easier to track. But that’s not Hunters Mark.
Any ideas? There's a similar power in the Diablo III video game used by the Demon Hunter class. With the mark active, the target takes more damage. We also see it in the Hearthstone games as a Hunter (Ranger?) spell. (Hearthstone is derived from World of Warcraft). I'd need to do some digging to find out when Hunter's Mark entered D&D ... as a spell.

The other thing I'd point towards is (this is a bit of a reach) that scene in the Hobbit when Bard the Bowman speaks to his arrow, the one he has always retrieved, and speaks to it before he looses it at Smaug's one vulnerable spot. While that isn't a one for one "this spell does more damage if I hit" reference, it is certainly an inspiration for some kind of mystical force (be it only the magic of plot) guiding an arrow loosed to a more lethal strike on the target.

I can't find a reference to that spell in 2e, so I guess that it arrived in 3e ... I have read a number of books in the Swords and Sorcery genre where magical powers for the ranger/archer are a thing.

A cinematic reference (again, this is a bit of a reach) is the magical arrows that Thulsa doom looses at his targets. In his case, the transforms an arrow into a snake and by enchantment looses it with lethal accuracy; first at Valeria, which eventually kills her, and second at Conan, whose ally blocks the shot with a shield.

[Vogie]

You can flavor it however you'd like.

You've studied the target enough you can inherently see its weaknesses (hence the extra damage) and understand how it moves (advantage on checks to track it).
You have supernatural focus on a single target, like a sixth sense, or a flow state.
You can take a nod from the Assassin's Creed, or Elder scrolls games and your marked target just kind of glows to you.

[Derpaligtr]

I don’t “get” hunters mark in the sense that I don’t know of the concept occurring outside of DnD. I can’t think of a real-world equivalent, or of an equivalent in fiction.
The closest I get is wounding a foe and the blood trail making it easier to track. But that’s not Hunters Mark.
Any ideas?

Any marking ability in any action/stealth videogame ever.

[Unoriginal]

There's also this moment in movies where one character is escaping/running away, and another character looks at them with a "I'm going to catch you" glare.

[Demonslayer666]

It's in World of Warcraft. That's where I first heard about it, and I don't know of any other fantasy references from movies or books. Not that I'm a fantasy lore master or anything of the sort. :smallsmile:

[KorvinStarmast]

It's in World of Warcraft. That's where I first heard about it, and I don't know of any other fantasy references from movies or books. Not that I'm a fantasy lore master or anything of the sort. :smallsmile: I don't find it in a list of 3.5 D&D spells, I am guessing that it was introduced in 4e. (Or was it in 5e that it made its debut)

[Willie the Duck]

I don't find it in a list of 3.5 D&D spells, I am guessing that it was introduced in 4e. (Or was it in 5e that it made its debut)

4e had Hunter's Quarry, (http://dnd4.wikia.com/wiki/Hunter%27s_Quarry) which was a Ranger class feature, not spell, but the distinction between the two is pretty different in 4e than it is for other D&Ds.

[TheTeaMustFlow]

Personally, i consider it the Ranger magical equivalent of fighter lock or something similar. You have the target in your crosshairs, you hit their weakspots better, and they have a harder time getting away from you. Though i do agree it's one of the weirder spells to visualize.

The way I thought of it was equivalent to laser targeting, particularly the way laser sights are used in cinema. On a similar note I'd compare it to Markerlights and Deathmarks in 40k.

[Lunali]

I always thought of it as being akin to hex, it's a spell that you cast on someone that causes your attacks to hurt them more. As a bonus, it gives you a vague sense of where they are as well.

[Sigreid]

I like the idea of a nature spirit helping the ranger out. Ghost of Bambi's mom says he went that way, etc.

[Rynjin]

4e had Hunter's Quarry, (http://dnd4.wikia.com/wiki/Hunter%27s_Quarry) which was a Ranger class feature, not spell, but the distinction between the two is pretty different in 4e than it is for other D&Ds.

It's basically Instant Enemy (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/i/instant-enemy/) (or the Slayer's Favored Target class feature) from Pathfinder. It has a lesser in numbers, but same in execution impact (Favored Enemy gives a bonus to attack/damage as well as Perception/Survival among other things) but a longer duration (1 hour/8 hours instead of 1 minute/level).

I wouldn't be surprised if it was cribbed, it's one of the spells that enables Ranger to be very powerful in PF, and 5e probably wanted a way to have a Favored Enemy style mechanic that wasn't shackled to the situational nature of that ability (since simplicity is key in 5e).

[Bahamut7]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PSEJTtWADM

This is probably the easiest way to visualize.

[JoeJ]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PSEJTtWADM

This is probably the easiest way to visualize.

Setting aside the part where I find laser targeting to be anachronistic and completely immersion breaking for quasi-medieval fantasy, hunter's mark doesn't give you a bonus to hit. If just increases the damage if you do hit and gives you advantage to find or track the target if it's no longer visible.

As described, there doesn't need to be a visual special effect for this spell at all. You're just hitting a little harder and perceiving things a little more clearly.

[Speely]

I feel like Hunter's Mark is a very immediate way to illustrate a ranger's ability to target and focus on an enemy. It's a mechanical way to illustrate their "Favored Enemy" feature but make it more relevant in more situations. Rangers have a better Hex, basically. Fine with that.

[Lunali]

I feel like Hunter's Mark is a very immediate way to illustrate a ranger's ability to target and focus on an enemy. It's a mechanical way to illustrate their "Favored Enemy" feature but make it more relevant in more situations. Rangers have a better Hex, basically. Fine with that.

Dunno about better, different yes, but I can see hex's bonus being useful more often than hunter's mark. Hunter's mark being useful means you decided to kill something and failed, hex being useful means someone forced an ability check in combat. Exactly which abilities it's useful to disadvantage depends on the group composition, but if nothing else, a dex penalty will also make them easier to find.

[RSP]

I feel like Hunter's Mark is a very immediate way to illustrate a ranger's ability to target and focus on an enemy. It's a mechanical way to illustrate their "Favored Enemy" feature but make it more relevant in more situations. Rangers have a better Hex, basically. Fine with that.


Dunno about better, different yes, but I can see hex's bonus being useful more often than hunter's mark. Hunter's mark being useful means you decided to kill something and failed, hex being useful means someone forced an ability check in combat. Exactly which abilities it's useful to disadvantage depends on the group composition, but if nothing else, a dex penalty will also make them easier to find.

Hunters Mark is fine, but Hex is definitely better for a number of reasons but the three main ones being having to track someone who’s within 90’ and visual range is nice, but fairly niche in a game where a lot of the change is in straight up killing things (not to mention if the target flees, you can’t transfer HM); more optimization-based, Hunters Mark only works with weapon attacks, while Hex works with any attack, spell or weapon; and weapon damage (slashing, piercing, bludgeoning) is more commonly resisted then necrotic.

[Ninja_Prawn]

Marked is a status effect in Darkest Dungeon, too, though that might have been inspired by hunter's mark rather than vice versa. It can be inflicted by the arbalest, bounty hunter and hound master classes, which would all be rangers in D&D (and the occultist, which is clearly a warlock).

The interpretation there is a kind of "I'm coming for you" or "you can't hide from me" statement that gives you a bonus just from being badass.

[Afrodactyl]

I like to imagine it as a Liam Neeson in Taken style "I will find you, and I will kill you" thing.

Just becoming so focused on finding and destroying your quarry that you gain almost supernatural abilities in doing just that.

[Tanarii]

Hunter's mark being useful means you decided to kill something and failed,
I take it you've never fought enemies that take the Hide action?

[JoeJ]

I take it you've never fought enemies that take the Hide action?

Or anything that has no good reason to stay and fight a losing battle.

[Tanarii]

Or anything that has no good reason to stay and fight a losing battle.Absolutely. My players have creatures try to escape them all the time. But the context was "tried to kill and failed", so I assume d that was already covered and dismissed as a negligible benefit. Even if I personally disagree with that.

Of course, there's no requirement to use the spell in combat. It is a fantastic tool for assisting in tracking someone you currently have in your sights, and want to follow without them knowing you are following. (Assuming it wasn't already a favored enemy.)

[No brains]

I think Darth Vader saying, "I've got you now!" is the exemplification of Hunter's Mark. He even gets his concentration broken!

...

I know that a star-fighter's lock on system is not in tune with a D&D setting, but the idea of it isn't. Everybody wishes they had something that could help them land better shots and Hunter's Mark is the Ranger getting that wish in spell form.

[BeefGood]

Thanks for all the responses. I didn’t know that Hunter’s Mark had such an extensive pedigree.

[Lunali]

I take it you've never fought enemies that take the Hide action?

Hide requires stealth, giving disadvantage on stealth vs advantage on perception is pretty much a wash.

[ImproperJustice]

Why does it need to exist outside of DnD?

That being said, there are more than one character in fiction who acquires a kind of power over those they wound.

I think it ties in with their primevil awareness and favored terrain features. The idea that they have this intrinsic Attunement with their natural surroundings that functions like magic and lets them track and destroy their foes on a supernatural level.

[wilhelmdubdub]

I like the idea of a nature spirit helping the ranger out. Ghost of Bambi's mom says he went that way, etc.

This. Ranger is a divine caster, So whatever the ranger believes in guides the PC to its quarry and allows its attacks to be more effective.

[JoeJ]

Hide requires stealth, giving disadvantage on stealth vs advantage on perception is pretty much a wash.

Disadvantage on (dexterity) stealth checks makes them more likely to be spotted by everyone. That's a significantly worse situation than advantage on (wisdom) perception checks by just one person.