Awakened Effigy Creature to Dragonborn

[BowStreetRunner]

I begin with an Orc (MM1 page 203)

Humanoid (orc)
Ability AdjustmentsL +4 Str, -2 Int, -2 Wis, -2 Cha
Size: Medium
Speed: 30 ft
Darkvision 60 ft, Light Sensitivity

Now I create an Effigy Creature based on the Orc.

Type changes to Construct and Construct traits are acquired.
Orc Subtype is lost.
Size and Speed remain unchanged
Lose the orc's Darkvision & Light Sensitivity
Gain Damage Reduction (based on HD) as a Special Quality
Gain a slam attack: (1d4 + 1.5 Str bonus)
Gain +2 Natural Armor
Ability Adjustments: +8 Str, -2 Dex, -- Con, -- Int,
Wisdom is set to 11, Cha is set to 1.

Next I cast Awaken Construct (SC 21) on the Effigy Creature (Orc)
Int, Wis, Cha all now all 3d6

Next, the Awakened Effigy Creature (Orc) undergoes the Ritual of Rebirth to become a Dragonborn.
Type remains Construct and Construct Traits are retained.
Dragonblood SubType is gained.
The Ability Modifiers become +8 Str, -4 Dex, -- Con
Size remains Medium, Speed remains 30 ft
Damage reduction is lost, as is the Natural Armor bonus.
The slam attack remains.

I believe this gets me a Construct (dragonblood) with +8 Str, -4 Dex as a playable race. Or am I missing something.

[GrayDeath]

Aside from needing a Spellcaster and a lot of money to do the stuff needed, I dont see why not.

First I misremembered DoB needing the starting creature to be humanoid, but that isnt the case.

I would not call it a "playable race" though, as that assumes legality under most circumstances, and many a DM will frown upon the stuff needed to be done before one can play that ... thing.

[Thurbane]

Effigy creature is LA --, and unfortunately Awakening it an putting other templates on does not change this. It's not a playable creature unless the DM house-rules an LA for it.

Dustform from Sandstorm is a different story, though...

[torrasque666]

Effigy Construct has LA:--, and since neither Awaken Construct nor Dragonborn get rid of that, it's unplayable.

[BowStreetRunner]

Effigy creature is LA --, and unfortunately Awakening it an putting other templates on does not change this. It's not a playable creature unless the DM house-rules an LA for it.

Dustform from Sandstorm is a different story, though...Dustform is interesting, but I'm mostly just interested in LA +0 playable creatures. I guess I was thinking that Awakening would make it playable, but you're right - it doesn't change the LA --.

[liquidformat]

Why doesn't it get rid of LA--, is it because it doesn't expressly say it does? Would this be the same ruling for an awakened animal?

[BowStreetRunner]

Why doesn't it get rid of LA--, is it because it doesn't expressly say it does? Would this be the same ruling for an awakened animal?I believe that is the case, yes. On both counts.

[torrasque666]

I believe that is the case, yes. On both counts.
I think theres a magazine article that gives ECLs for awakened animals actually...

[BowStreetRunner]

I think theres a magazine article that gives ECLs for awakened animals actually...An Effective Character Level isn't the same as a Level Adjustment. What I would love to see is something canonical that gives a LA conversion for Awakened creatures.

[torrasque666]

An Effective Character Level isn't the same as a Level Adjustment. What I would love to see is something canonical that gives a LA conversion for Awakened creatures.
I mean, if the ECL is different from the RHD, it is.

[BowStreetRunner]

I mean, if the ECL is different from the RHD, it is.Let me be more clear. LA -- is not equal to LA +0. If there is a published Level Adjustment you can add it to Racial Hit Die and Class Levels to determine the ECL. But the reverse is not true. If you try to reverse engineer the LA on creatures with LA -- it may come out to be LA +0, LA +1, LA +2, or any other value. But if it is published with LA -- then it is considered not appropriate for PCs. This is something that I overlooked in my excitement to find another potential PC race with the Construct type. As others pointed out, Awaken Construct and even the Dragonborn rite of rebirth don't take away the LA --. So it's a viable NPC build, but not a PC without DM fiat.

[torrasque666]

Let me be more clear. LA -- is not equal to LA +0. If there is a published Level Adjustment you can add it to Racial Hit Die and Class Levels to determine the ECL. But the reverse is not true. If you try to reverse engineer the LA on creatures with LA -- it may come out to be LA +0, LA +1, LA +2, or any other value. But if it is published with LA -- then it is considered not appropriate for PCs. This is something that I overlooked in my excitement to find another potential PC race with the Construct type. As others pointed out, Awaken Construct and even the Dragonborn rite of rebirth don't take away the LA --. So it's a viable NPC build, but not a PC without DM fiat.
Ah sorry. I've only ever seen ECL used in comparison with Player Characters, with NPCs and Monsters being referred to by CR. What I meant by my earlier statement was that if you look at 3.0 things (which is probably where the Awakened Animals as PC article comes from) would refer to "monster player characters start as a Character of X level" where X is greater than their RHD. Like how Bladelings are described in MM2 (class level +1, with 1 RHD that gets replaced, therefore LA+1), or Desmodu (class level + 14, with 12 RHD, therefore LA 2) or Durzagons (ECL= Class+7, with 5 RHD, therefore LA+2)

[liquidformat]

I had always thought just the act of giving them normal sentience was enough to let them be player characters... I suppose the best way to go about figure out the best LA for awaken is look at awaken as maximized and then minimized and come up with an LA for each then average it. The one weird thing for awaken at least is that adding 2 animal hd is pretty horrid so I can't imagine them reasonably having a LA except for maybe the animals with 1 or less hd to begin with....

[Dimers]

Sadly, it won't work regardless of LA. The Rite of Rebirth requires sleep, so constructs, elementals, oozes, plants and undead can't become dragonborn. (Outsiders don't need to sleep but explicitly can.)

[unseenmage]

Sadly, it won't work regardless of LA. The Rite of Rebirth requires sleep, so constructs, elementals, oozes, plants and undead can't become dragonborn. (Outsiders don't need to sleep but explicitly can.)

Could potentially pull the Construct type, and its inability to sleep, off it with a perfectly timed Greater Humanoid Essence spell.
Theoretically.