Energy Ball (XPH 100)

[Rijan_Sai]

http://archive.wizards.com/dnd/images/xph_gallery/33549.jpg
Just a quick, semi-random question: Is Energy Ball (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/energyBall.htm) worth taking an Expanded Knowledge (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm#expandedKnowledge) feat at level 9, or did Wayne Reynolds just forget that Mitra is a Shaper and not a Kineticist? (:smallbiggrin:)
(The question of "is it worth it" may be relevant to a character I'm hoping to play soon.)

[Kelb_Panthera]

I wouldn't spend a feat on it. There's plenty of AoE energy powers on the general psion/wilder list. If there's any power worth the feat, it'd be astral construct. Don't know if there's many/any others since a feat is such a steep cost.

[Troacctid]

Energy missile is better IMO. The radius is only a little smaller, and it has the versatility of being able to smash the enemy's gear while it's smashing their faces, in addition to the advantages of being lower level.

EDIT: Oh, and the DC is higher.

[Rijan_Sai]

I wouldn't spend a feat on it. There's plenty of AoE energy powers on the general psion/wilder list. If there's any power worth the feat, it'd be astral construct. Don't know if there's many/any others since a feat is such a steep cost.
That's true, and looking at it, Amethyst Burst from Dragon Magic looks like a nice power to pick up! (Less damage overall, being +1d6/2pp, instead of the usual 1/1, but it is an instantaneous, (Creation)[Force] effect on the Psion/Wilder list!)
Also, planning on playing a Shaper, so no feat needed for AC!

Energy missile is better IMO. The radius is only a little smaller, and it has the versatility of being able to smash the enemy's gear while it's smashing their faces, in addition to the advantages of being lower level.

EDIT: Oh, and the DC is higher.

Nice! Missed that about being able to target objects! I will put that into consideration!
EDIT: Re: the DC, that's one that got "nerf errata'd" by Complete Psionic... although in this case, it brought it back into line with the other Energy powers (+1 DC/2pp), so I'm actually okay with that one.

And hey, no one has ever accused Wizard's characters of being hi-op! :smallbiggrin:

[Calthropstu]

Energy missile is better IMO. The radius is only a little smaller, and it has the versatility of being able to smash the enemy's gear while it's smashing their faces, in addition to the advantages of being lower level.

EDIT: Oh, and the DC is higher.

Dc is exactly the same. Range is better for ball, and ball can hit a MUCH (more than double) bigger area. Still, the ball isn't your only option for big explosion. The 40 foot burst power is amazing. It's the largest explision in your arsenal for a long time. Energy burst I believe it's called. Only caveat, it's range 0. So easy to have friendly fire.

But the even more fun part is you can manifest it from your psicrystal. Remote view psicrystal, begi n manifesting all sorts of powers through, then spam energy burst in an enemy camp from a mile away.
Fun.

[Crichton]

Dc is exactly the same. Range is better for ball, and ball can hit a MUCH (more than double) bigger area. Still, the ball isn't your only option for big explosion. The 40 foot burst power is amazing. It's the largest explision in your arsenal for a long time. Energy burst I believe it's called. Only caveat, it's range 0. So easy to have friendly fire.

But the even more fun part is you can manifest it from your psicrystal. Remote view psicrystal, begi n manifesting all sorts of powers through, then spam energy burst in an enemy camp from a mile away.
Fun.

Can't argue with the second half, but the save DC is higher on Energy Missile, when it's augmented to match the 7d6 damage of Energy Ball.

Energy Missile: 10 +2(PowerLevel) +4(Augment) = 16 plus AbilityMod
Energy Ball: 10 +4(PowerLevel) = 14 +AbilityMod

Plus, the DC on Energy Missile increases by 1 for each point of augment, but Energy Ball only increases DC 1 point per 2 points of augment

[Troacctid]

Dc is exactly the same. Range is better for ball, and ball can hit a MUCH (more than double) bigger area.
Missile DC scales twice as fast with augmentation. It will always have a higher DC than an Energy Ball with the same PP investment. Medium range is perfectly adequate for a combat spell; it's highly unlikely that a combat will take place at a greater distance. And it's a 15-foot radius compared to a 20-foot radius. I'm not a math expert or anything, but I'm pretty sure that's not double the area. Are you sure we're talking about the same power?

[ExLibrisMortis]

Area scales with the square of the radius; 15/20 squared is approximately .56. So there's something to be said for the whole "double area" thing... but I seriously doubt you'll get that much more use out of it. It's more useful if your enemies are 40' apart, and less useful if there's an ally at 20'. Overall, hard to call, but a wash.

[Ramza00]

Missile DC scales twice as fast with augmentation. It will always have a higher DC than an Energy Ball with the same PP investment. Medium range is perfectly adequate for a combat spell; it's highly unlikely that a combat will take place at a greater distance. And it's a 15-foot radius compared to a 20-foot radius. I'm not a math expert or anything, but I'm pretty sure that's not double the area. Are you sure we're talking about the same power?

Energy Missile can hit 5 creatures in a total of 24 possible squares.
Energy Ball can hit X creatures in a total of in a total of 44 squares.

See here

https://i.stack.imgur.com/AoXda.gif

[Troacctid]

Energy Missile can hit 5 creatures in a total of 24 possible squares.
Energy Ball can hit X creatures in a total of in a total of 44 squares.

See here

https://i.stack.imgur.com/AoXda.gif
Mhmm. Doesn't look like a "MUCH (more than double) bigger area" to me.

If you need a big, wide area, that's what energy cone is for. It's only 3rd level instead of 4th and it hits a 60' cone.

[Ramza00]

That is why you should count the squares or at least count 1 quadrant of squares.

24 / 44 = 54.5%

Whether you go for Energy Ball or Energy Cone is up to you. One advantage of Energy Cone is you can shoot it 680 feet away or closer. Energy Cone covers more squares.

[Calthropstu]

Missile DC scales twice as fast with augmentation. It will always have a higher DC than an Energy Ball with the same PP investment. Medium range is perfectly adequate for a combat spell; it's highly unlikely that a combat will take place at a greater distance. And it's a 15-foot radius compared to a 20-foot radius. I'm not a math expert or anything, but I'm pretty sure that's not double the area. Are you sure we're talking about the same power?

It's not a 15 foot radius. It's no 2 targets more than 15 feet apart. Which means guy 1 can be wherever, guy two can be up to 3 squares away, guy 3 can literally be next to guy 2 but if he's 4 squares away from guy 1 it's no go. It's not a radiius, it's a triangle that is the best possible available area.

Which means the area available is far less than half of a ball.
And I was looking at the pf version for dc. Was the energy missle dc issue never errata'd out in 3.5?

[Kelb_Panthera]

Energy missile's dc was adjusted to the standard pattern in CPsi; +1 per 2d6 damage.

[Troacctid]

Wow, so we actually weren't talking about the same power? That's an unexpected twist.

[Calthropstu]

Energy missile's dc was adjusted to the standard pattern in CPsi; +1 per 2d6 damage.

Yeah, I was fairly certain it was.

So I was right about both powers.

The best coverage you can get for energy missle is a total of 8 squares. I just checked it on a map.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Energy missile's dc was adjusted to the standard pattern in CPsi; +1 per 2d6 damage.Not errata, so pthbthbth. :smalltongue:

How about hail of crystals (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/hailofCrystals.htm)?

Or just pay a bit of money to add energy ball to your complement of powers via psychic chirurgery (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/psychicChirurgery.htm) instead, and recoup the very minor loss on your next adventure.

[Calthropstu]

Not errata, so pthbthbth. :smalltongue:

How about hail of crystals (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/hailofCrystals.htm)?

Or just pay a bit of money to add energy ball to your complement of powers via psychic chirurgery (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/psychicChirurgery.htm) instead, and recoup the very minor loss on your next adventure.

Finding a manifestor of that level is a serious endeavor. It's hard to find 9th lvl spells. Harder still to find those willing to accept gold to cast them. Psionics are even rarer, and psychic chirurgery has detrimental effects on the caster.
Many gms will likely say "no."

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Finding a manifestor of that level is a serious endeavor. It's hard to find 9th lvl spells. Harder still to find those willing to accept gold to cast them. Psionics are even rarer, and psychic chirurgery has detrimental effects on the caster.
Many gms will likely say "no."On the other hand, assuming anything like realism, manifesters don't have nearly the infinite money-making potential that spellcasters have beyond selling manifesting services and adventuring, so you're liable to be far more likely to find a level 17+ manifester willing to sell services than the equivalent level spellcaster.

[Psyren]

Not errata, so pthbthbth. :smalltongue:


Not sure if you were kidding, but just in case:


This chapter presents new and revised psionic powers for psionic characters. Most of the powers in this chapter are new. A handful of them (including astral construct, energy missile, energy stun, hostile empathic transfer, and psionic dimension door) are updated versions of powers from Expanded Psionics Handbook.

[Nifft]

http://archive.wizards.com/dnd/images/xph_gallery/33549.jpg
Just a quick, semi-random question: Is Energy Ball (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/energyBall.htm) worth taking an Expanded Knowledge (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm#expandedKnowledge) feat at level 9, or did Wayne Reynolds just forget that Mitra is a Shaper and not a Kineticist? (:smallbiggrin:) Trivia but since you're asking...

That picture originally appeared in the 3.0 PsiHB, and it was an illustration for a power called Sever the Tie (which was an Undead-specific damage power).

Unfortunately that power didn't make it into the 3.5e XPH, but the picture did get re-used.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Not sure if you were kidding, but just in case:CPsi is not errata, and as such it does not have the authority to override the XPH, which is the primary source.

[Psyren]

CPsi is not errata, and as such it does not have the authority to override the XPH, which is the primary source.

Except it specifically does. Specific trumps general.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Except it specifically does. Specific trumps general.Doesn't have the authority to say that, because you don't buy errata.

[Calthropstu]

CPsi is not errata, and as such it does not have the authority to override the XPH, which is the primary source.

Actually, it kinda does. Wizards says it does, therefor it does. However, the srd says 1 per die scale so most will assume that.
Unfortunate but there it is. I had originally bought the complete so... eh?
Either way, it's there. I'll consider that particular aspect dropped because it's a stupid argument to have. Xph is what the srd uses, Cpsi is what I will refer to and no one is wrong.

But I AM right about the area for all versions. I revisited the map and found a 10 square configuration that works. But there's no way to get more. #4 and #5 targets are very difficult to get.

[Psyren]

Doesn't have the authority to say that, because you don't buy errata.

Ah, you're one of those "splats can't override core" folks. Do you also believe there are only 11 base classes in D&D, as the PHB says? After all, splats can't override that and there is no errata either, so you must believe that. Therefore Psion doesn't exist in your games and the point is moot.

[Ramza00]

Ah, you're one of those "splats can't override core" folks. Do you also believe there are only 11 base classes in D&D, as the PHB says? After all, splats can't override that and there is no errata either, so you must believe that. Therefore Psion doesn't exist in your games and the point is moot.

Warning do not try to argue about idiosyncratic beliefs :smallwink:, to some people it is about religion.:smallsigh: . Effectively it is a just-world fallacy, some people argue how a gaming system should be, instead of how it actually is. For sometimes how the world actually is, is inherently unjust.

Yes, you should not have to pay for errata, but companies exist to make money not for the sake of justice or fairness.

Also remember OGL was brand new with d20 / 3.0 you used to have to pay for all the books. Companies were still trying to figure out this mixture of open source and closed source that OGL and similar systems were.

[Rijan_Sai]

Trivia but since you're asking...

That picture originally appeared in the 3.0 PsiHB, and it was an illustration for a power called Sever the Tie (which was an Undead-specific damage power).

Unfortunately that power didn't make it into the 3.5e XPH, but the picture did get re-used.

That makes a lot more sense, then! Thanks!
(Still, not all bad... that is one of my favorite images of Mitra!)


How about hail of crystals (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/hailofCrystals.htm)?
That's...an interestingly written power. I would assume that the Reflex Half save is on the explosion, but as written it looks like it would apply to the ball, too (despite that one having a ranged touch attack roll.) Also (potentially) "suffers" from CPsi's Metacreativity "nerf'rrata." (Though it does offer 2 possible bypasses, being both Bludgeoning with the ball and Slashing with the explosion.)

[Vertharrad]

Warning do not try to argue about idiosyncratic beliefs :smallwink:, to some people it is about religion.:smallsigh: . Effectively it is a just-world fallacy, some people argue how a gaming system should be, instead of how it actually is. For sometimes how the world actually is, is inherently unjust.

Yes, you should not have to pay for errata, but companies exist to make money not for the sake of justice or fairness.

Also remember OGL was brand new with d20 / 3.0 you used to have to pay for all the books. Companies were still trying to figure out this mixture of open source and closed source that OGL and similar systems were.

Splatbooks are an option and not always allowed at every table...the original Psionic's Handbook and XPH are splatbooks. DM's can veto using any book outside of the core 3. It is well within their prerogative.

[Calthropstu]

Splatbooks are an option and not always allowed at every table...the original Psionic's Handbook and XPH are splatbooks. DM's can veto using any book outside of the core 3. It is well within their prerogative.

This is true enough. Psionics are banned at many, maybe even most, tables.