Invoke Duplicity and Twin Spell

[Aett_Thorn]

So I was thinking of potentially making a Trickery Cleric 2/Divine Soul Sorc X, and I was wondering how a particular rule interaction might work out. Invoke Duplicity says that I "can" cast spells as if I was in the Illusion's space. However, for something like a twinned cure wounds, would that allow me to use one version from my own square, and one from the Illusion's? Or, even if using something like a twinned Firebolt, could I cast one from the Illusion's space and one from mine? Or would both need to originate from one space or the other?

My DM would probably say that it would be okay to cast from both spaces, but I don't like to push him for things like this if I don't really need to.

[BillyBobShorton]

Personally, when I run, I reward creativity. In my experience, at quick glance, some of what you have in mind could get p
Out of hand quick but much of it has a very interesting potential and I would allow it simply because it's a really cool original idea that could make a very cool, potent PC.

However, I would make it known up front that as new spells come into play with quirky mechanics twisting their effect into potential MEGA-OP, there would be a "rule on the fly stands, review after" clause. Because nobody is going to sit down and go over every possible spell and future spells, so when we (DM, PC, and other table players) see that level 5 spell X just changed immensely coming from 2 targets, I'd do my best on the spot to still let something cool happen at the moment but would be something we'd have to collaborate on a special rule or mechanic outside the session to follow.

I think the idea of using the level 5 upgrade to cantrips outside of Eldritch Blast to cast half the damage attack from original and other from Duplicate is actually awesome. And then twinned... yeahhh... Once you got into level 11 territory, I might say majority still comes from caster, as an example of tweaking as it goes. Very cool idea though. Take 2200 XP. 😉

[Aett_Thorn]

Personally, when I run, I reward creativity. In my experience, at quick glance, some of what you have in mind could get p
Out of hand quick but much of it has a very interesting potential and I would allow it simply because it's a really cool original idea that could make a very cool, potent PC.

However, I would make it known up front that as new spells come into play with quirky mechanics twisting their effect into potential MEGA-OP, there would be a "rule on the fly stands, review after" clause. Because nobody is going to sit down and go over every possible spell and future spells, so when we (DM, PC, and other table players) see that level 5 spell X just changed immensely coming from 2 targets, I'd do my best on the spot to still let something cool happen at the moment but would be something we'd have to collaborate on a special rule or mechanic outside the session to follow.

I think the idea of using the level 5 upgrade to cantrips outside of Eldritch Blast to cast half the damage attack from original and other from Duplicate is actually awesome. And then twinned... yeahhh... Once you got into level 11 territory, I might say majority still comes from caster, as an example of tweaking as it goes. Very cool idea though. Take 2200 XP. 😉

Well, no Eldritch Blast as a Sorc, and I probably won't get that. Mainly going for a buffer/healer type character that just has a few tricks up their sleeve when needed. But yeah, probably discussing up front that if there are any issues that we can readjust is a good plan. Thanks.

[JackPhoenix]

Snip

You can't twin Eldritch Blast after level 5, as it can target more than one creature.

[Ganymede]

Twin Spell adds a second target to a spell you cast; you are not casting a second copy of the spell.

This means you must choose to cast the spell from either yours or your duplicate's location; you can't split them.

It is functionally no different from any multi-target spell. You could not, for instance, fire a scorching ray from your location and your duplicate's location with a single spell, whether or not metamagic is in play.

[Joe the Rat]

I think Ganymede has the sense of the rules.

As a DM I might allow it, but I am one for shenanigans when I run.

[RSP]

I think it’s fine to allow it. Twin already rules out AoEs and really you’re using an underutilized (particularly from an “optimizing standpoint) ability in a creative way. The only chance of “breaking” anything is in extending the potential range (such as one target is within 30’ of you and the other outside your range but within 30’ of the illusion), but that’s fine for what I can see happening. Really if you get to Twin Bestow Curse on two targets not standing next to each other, you’ve reached maximum abuse I can foresee at the moment.

[Aett_Thorn]

Thanks, everyone. I’ll probably try it a time or two, but will try not to abuse it.

[PhantomSoul]

I think it’s fine to allow it. Twin already rules out AoEs and really you’re using an underutilized (particularly from an “optimizing standpoint) ability in a creative way. The only chance of “breaking” anything is in extending the potential range (such as one target is within 30’ of you and the other outside your range but within 30’ of the illusion), but that’s fine for what I can see happening. Really if you get to Twin Bestow Curse on two targets not standing next to each other, you’ve reached maximum abuse I can foresee at the moment.

Bestow Curse is an interesting thought -- starting [slot] level 5, it no longer requires concentration and so could be combined with Invoke Duplicity. (And Bestow Curse is always good fun!)

[Allfather Asura]

Hi Aett i know i am a little late to this thread but i was also looking into doing a trickery domain 2/divne soul sorc x and was wondering how the build was going for you? The thought of using cleric spells with meta magic plus the clone you create, effectively doubling your casting range with things such as touch spells, really intrigued me.

[Aett_Thorn]

Hi Aett i know i am a little late to this thread but i was also looking into doing a trickery domain 2/divne soul sorc x and was wondering how the build was going for you? The thought of using cleric spells with meta magic plus the clone you create, effectively doubling your casting range with things such as touch spells, really intrigued me.

Well it was a fun build exercise, but I never got around to actually using it. I’ve still got the build on the back burner, since I’d still like to try it sometime. If you get there before me, let me know how it goes!

[Stygofthedump]

Wild mage so bad surges affect illusion not you?

[RickAsWritten]

I played one up to 8th level(Draconic Sorcerer 6/Trickery Cleric 2). It's a fun trick, and really makes touch spells more useful. I would often hide in the back behind cover, and then plop the Duplicate right up in the melee and blast away. It really increases survivability. My DM's(AL) all ruled that one attacker usually wasted a turn attacking the Duplicate; occasionally multiple if they weren't intelligent monsters. It's great for causing chaos/distractions in ambushes and other stealth situations, and blasting around corners(you must keep it in sight, use a mirror[DM dependent]).

The only draw-backs are the obvious concentration requirement, and that it can only be done once per Short Rest for a minute. It's very tempting to take Cleric up to 6th to get that second use, but then you hamstring spell progression.