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Requilac
2018-07-31, 06:15 PM
Welcome to the chat thread for the Base Class Competitions for D&D 5e. If you wish to say anything about the competition which is neither a submission nor a vote, then it belongs here. You do not need to be a contestant to post here. You are allowed to critique a competitor’s work and offer suggestions on how to improve their homebrew through this thread, but it is preferred if you do so through that class’ specific thread (if applicable). I will also be holding discussions over what the next competition’s theme should be in here. Let us begin.

Submissions thread: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?565360-D-amp-D-5e-Base-Class-Contest-III-The-Elements-and-not-the-periodic-ones-(probably-)!
Voting thread: yet to be created

Former Competitions
1st contest: Who Needs Swords or Sorcery? (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?556338-D-amp-D-5e-Base-Class-Contest-I-Who-needs-Swords-OR-Sorcerery), won by WarrentheHero with the Inventor

2nd contest: Expect a low Margin of Terror (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?560208-D-amp-D-5e-Base-Class-Contest-II-expect-a-low-Margin-of-Terror), Won by Mourne with the Sleepwalker

WarrentheHero
2018-08-03, 02:19 PM
The class I'm currently working on for this contest is a Djinn Warrior- for some reason, a Djinni grants you power. This could be becuase you freed one and it offered you a Wish, or maybe an ancestor Wished to protect their family line. Maybe, similar to a Sorcerer, this Genie's blood runs in your veins, or perhaps some other reason. In any event, you've been given great power by this Genie.

The base class gets bonus lightning damage on-hit, but the "main" feature is the Minor Wishes mechanic. Minor Wishes let you accomplish magical feats such as flight, the conjuring of decadent feasts, or the control of winds. At higher levels, the class will eventually gain the ability to cast Wish regularly.

The subclasses reflect which Freehold or Citadel your associated Djinn is from, and the subclass split is at level one. The Citadel of Storms empowers your lightning and allows you to strike with your fists, while the Citadel of Zephyrs offers greater control of elemental air itself, with a combat focus on archery.

It's still WIP, and I don't like to post classes until they're at least 90% done, but this is the concept so far.

Mourne
2018-08-03, 04:18 PM
Sounds interesting. I've got... nothing. Not even the inkling of a concept (at least one that I feel hasn't been done a thousand times).

Requilac
2018-08-03, 04:43 PM
Sounds interesting. I've got... nothing. Not even the inkling of a concept (at least one that I feel hasn't been done a thousand times).

Yeah, I am struggling to come up with something too. I feel noncreative spark like I did in the former competitions. I never really gave the system of the four elements much thought at all before, so I am out of ideas. Hopefully I can get something out there though.

MoleMage
2018-08-03, 04:54 PM
Try one of the other elemental systems maybe?

A class based on alchemical metals (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alchemical_symbol#Seven_planetary_metals).
A pokemon trainer spin-off using the 15/17/18 types (depending on which ones you like/dislike). (https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Type)
Elements of spellcasting (somatic, material, verbal).
Magic the Gathering 5 colors.

I'm musing a couple ideas over in my head right now. If I settle on one I'll come back here to announce the idea.

WarrentheHero
2018-08-03, 04:59 PM
A couple of ideas I tossed around before mostly settling on the Djinn are:
- Geomancer. Control over stone and magma. You could make stone prisons, throw lava rocks, and cause miniature volcanic eruptions. Subclasses could focus on either fire or earth manipulation.
-Frost Knight. A Paladin substitute without healings, it would be a heavy armor class that focuses hardcore on battlefield control
-4 Elements. Expand on the basic idea of the Monk subclass but... better. Not sure what direction subclasses would go.
-Elementalist basic control over 4 elements with subclasses focusing on different elements providing a lot of the real meat of the class. Maybe a spellcasting base class? A real cool mechanic would be that partway through class progression, you either choose a second subclass to start benefitting from, or you choose a second element and combine them into a new one (Fire+Earth=Magma, Air+Water=Storm, etc)

Jama7301
2018-08-03, 06:47 PM
-Elementalist basic control over 4 elements with subclasses focusing on different elements providing a lot of the real meat of the class. Maybe a spellcasting base class? A real cool mechanic would be that partway through class progression, you either choose a second subclass to start benefitting from, or you choose a second element and combine them into a new one (Fire+Earth=Magma, Air+Water=Storm, etc)

Reminds me of the mobile game Alchemy, where you made new elements by combining basic ones, then combining the basic/advanced, or advanced/advanced ones together to make different combonations. Feels like it'd work well as a spell-point caster that could let you use a Major and Minor effect for each spell. Major could determine the type of damage, and the range, while the secondary one could be an on-hit or terrain effect (or additional damage) based on the element. So Fire (1) + Earth (1) would be a fire ranged burst that got an AOE of 5 feet from the target that can knock prone/create difficult terrain.

Ivellius
2018-08-03, 10:23 PM
A wu jen update could work here, as well.

I already did an Avatar-esque / Way of the Four Elements / Swordsage update that's on DM's Guild, so I'll want to think of something away from that. But an Elemental Ascendant type would be good.

Actually, I'm pretty sure I know what I want to do just because I've wanted to do it for a while now.

KateHoll
2018-08-04, 05:13 AM
Thanks for the link to the flow of materials.

Jormengand
2018-08-04, 01:44 PM
So, I made a whole new system of mysticism just for this class - it combines the elements of Motive, Priority and Action to form a compound Consequence. I'll do some work on actually making the class do stuff in just a bit.

MoleMage
2018-08-05, 05:42 PM
I decided to steal my own idea of using the Alchemical elements. The chassis of the Alchemist is ready to roll, and I will post the PDF shortly.

EDIT: As with Jormengand, this doesn't yet include actually doing stuff (and I have one remaining dead level at 15), so still to come are Houses, Formulae, and an ability at level 15.

EDIT EDIT: I had a thought for a theme. Mix it Up ( or possibly Remix Mastery): create an alternate or variant class for an existing class. It doesn't have to have the same level progression or even core abilities, but theme should be maintained. For example, alt/variant paladin doesn't need divine smite or even spellcasting, but does have to deliver on that same theme of "holy knight".

BerzerkerUnit
2018-08-07, 12:12 PM
I created a setting element last year for warriors that fight with giant weapons. They are supported by wizards that drive giant robots or Druids that summon giant earth elementals.

I started to expand out into other types of city protectors, I had a Dragon Speaker warlock and I think I’ll add in this elemental warrior archetype as vanguard for the Druids.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/12kO6k8Js6qBxfBQkuaxrdy0czEffqc1cCXY1ITxETgI

MoleMage
2018-08-08, 11:08 AM
Some more elemental grouping ideas:

Fire Emblem's Weapon Triangle (Swords->Axes->Lances/Spears->Swords) and/or Trinity of Magic (Anima->Light->Dark->Anima or Fire->Wind->Thunder->Fire)

The "flavors" of quarks (Up, Down, Strange, Charm, Bottom, Top)

Any specific subset of the Periodic Table (The Noble Gases, the Coinage Metals, the Alkali Group).


EDIT: A smallish update to the Alchemist filled out their dead level at 15 and started the long process of designing enough formulae to give them a solid number to pick from.

EDIT EDIT: The signs of the Zodiac would also flavor quite well into a group of 12 elements.

MoleMage
2018-08-16, 02:12 PM
Alright, I think the Alchemist is complete enough to request first-draft feedback. I'm still working on the formula list when I can (gonna have a whole weekend free coming up so probably do a fair bit then), but class features and subclasses are done outside of that.

How are everyone elses' projects going?

Vogie
2018-08-16, 02:43 PM
I'm nearly done with the final pass before reveal on mine... should post it tonight or tomorrow.

Jormengand
2018-08-16, 03:22 PM
How are everyone elses' projects going?

I've started something ambitious which might be hard to finish, particularly with like a bajilion other things going on, but I'll get there eventually maybe?

Requilac
2018-08-16, 06:12 PM
How are everyone elses' projects going?

I have found myself too busy to create a class. In addition, I also just don't have any great ideas about what I should make. Regardless, I may come up with something later if get the chance, but that is doubtful.

MoleMage
2018-08-17, 09:16 AM
I've started something ambitious which might be hard to finish, particularly with like a bajilion other things going on, but I'll get there eventually maybe?

I know what you mean. My other things are largely elective (at least the ones that consume a lot of the time that would be spent doing alchemist building), but coming up with enough formulae to give people meaningful choices is proving to be an undertaking.

I've so far given names to 25/40 planned formulae, full write-ups to 13, and partial write-ups to 3 more. At least we have about a month left to finish this in.

Mourne
2018-08-17, 02:16 PM
I think my concept is final coming together (like two trains on a track). I should have the draft posted sometime this weekend.

I had little inspiration for this theme and coupled with an internal need to make sure anything created works within my campaign world, this has been a most difficult contest.

I'll hopefully also have some time coming up to start giving some feedback. I'm especially interested in seeing the alchemist as I made a stab at this as a base class a while back. Hoping to find some good things to steal borrow.

Vogie
2018-08-19, 09:10 PM
I'm nearly done with the final pass before reveal on mine... should post it tonight or tomorrow.

Mine is up - sans the spell list. I don't know where i left it, so I'll hunt that down and add it in prior to the deadline.

Requilac
2018-08-23, 09:44 AM
Okay, I finally believe I have came up with something. I was frankly stumped on what to do, so I decided to do some minor research on elementals in mythology. A name that came up a lot was Paracelsus (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elemental#Paracelsus); an alchemist from the 16th century who proposed that their are four types of invisible nature spirits which can travel through their respective elements like we do air. The four elementals were gnomes who could phase through earth (this name is slightly misleading as these are a lot more reminiscent of dwarves than their actual namesake in D&D), salamanders who live and walk through fire (you can find an example of this monster in the MM), Sylphs who could fly through the air (not much different than air elemental in D&D really), and undines who could swim through water (essentially mermaids and similar beings).

This kind of gave me an idea for a class; a sort of shapeshifter who can transform themself into different elementals which decide their features. The main benefit of an elemental form would be what state of matter you could incorporeally travel through, but there would be much more benefits. It is essentially a class that allows you to almost change their form and the corresponding effects of class fatures at will (with resource expenditure), but with the drawback of never having as much raw power as the other classes. Exchanging overall power for unprecedented adaptability. How does this idea sound to you all? I worry that it is running on such strange rules that it may be incredibly unbalanced.

Mourne
2018-08-26, 12:31 AM
This kind of gave me an idea for a class; a sort of shapeshifter who can transform themself into different elementals which decide their features. The main benefit of an elemental form would be what state of matter you could incorporeally travel through, but there would be much more benefits. It is essentially a class that allows you to almost change their form and the corresponding effects of class fatures at will (with resource expenditure), but with the drawback of never having as much raw power as the other classes. Exchanging overall power for unprecedented adaptability. How does this idea sound to you all? I worry that it is running on such strange rules that it may be incredibly unbalanced.

Sounds interesting! Can't wait to see it. I always am too literal/conservative in hewing to the theme... I should try to push it a little more at some point.

Requilac
2018-08-26, 08:38 AM
Sounds interesting! Can't wait to see it. I always am too literal/conservative in hewing to the theme... I should try to push it a little more at some point.

To be fair, my “elemental shifter” class is a pretty literal interpretation of the theme. It’s usually not my style, but it is what I got inspiration for. I think many people in this competition where pushed to make their class fit the theme too directly. Jormengard is really the only person who threw a curveball here.

MoleMage
2018-08-26, 10:40 AM
To be fair, my “elemental shifter” class is a pretty literal interpretation of the theme. It’s usually not my style, but it is what I got inspiration for. I think many people in this competition where pushed to make their class fit the theme too directly. Jormengard is really the only person who threw a curveball here.

I definitely want with a more direct interpretation of the theme than some of my suggestions above (if i had had an idea i would have done the elements of spellcasting one instead of alchemical elements) but I don't think that is necessarily a bad thing.

Requilac
2018-08-27, 11:29 PM
Okay, my concept turned out be a complete dumpster fire. None of the elemental forms are even remotely balanced towards each other. The sylph is incredibly more overpowered than the others, the gnome is underwhelming in all but its one brokenly overpowered burrowing ability, the salamander is dishing out way too much and damage, the undine gets to breathe underwater and all their other features are desperately put in and don't make sense. Not to mention that I can't make heads or tails of what the spellcasting should be organized like. I have now come to the realization that I can't get the forms to be anywhere equal in power unless I make massive suspensions of disbelief and fill in features which don't honestly make sense. This is especially made difficult by trying to have them all fill different niches. I was hoping that my unique design would give it some character, but it just made it the most broken class possible.

Thusly, I will be scrapping the idea and taking all of the good parts of the elemental shifter to make a new class; The Firestorm Avatar. Hopefully the more solidly defined idea will give me some more room to work with. Please be patient with me as I rewrite my entry.

Mourne
2018-08-29, 11:55 AM
MoleMage, regarding your alchemist...

Having worked on my own version of the alchemist a full class, I can certainly appreciate what you have done here. In fact, the catalyst feature is a thing of beauty --- so much so that I now have to redesign my own alchemist to incorporate it.

I actually don’t have a lot of comments in regards to your class, it is very solid. Great job! I look forward to seeing the completed version (if you’d like, I can share my own alchemist with you – there may be some ideas there for additional formulae).

Here are the few thoughts I do have…


The core class is really bereft of fluff/ribbon features. I’m guessing the intent is to pack most of those into the Houses, but I feel that there should be at least a couple skill/social/exploration features (aside from Toxin Immunity) as part of the basic kit.
I’d guess the intent is to somewhat replicate an Int-based caster with readied spells. That being said, I don’t feel that the requirement for ‘Formulae Readied’ adds a lot to the class. It’s another (small) layer of administrative management for little gain/reason. I personally don’t think it would impact the power curve too much if this was removed an alchemist could prepare up to their maximum number of formulaes chosen from any of the formulae that they know.
Catalysts. Did I tell you how much I love this? Ha.
The Houses are certainly find and fill their niches (with some nice touches – Auric transmutation is very flavorful, a great reskin of flesh to stone). I’ve not quite warmed up yet to the House of Astrology but I can see that it fills a niche and is well flavored (it’s just hard for me to make the mental jump from alchemy to astrology).


Again, great job! Lots of good stuff here so, for the sake of providing things for me to plagiarize, please finish this class.

MoleMage
2018-08-29, 01:40 PM
MoleMage, regarding your alchemist...

Having worked on my own version of the alchemist a full class, I can certainly appreciate what you have done here. In fact, the catalyst feature is a thing of beauty --- so much so that I now have to redesign my own alchemist to incorporate it.

I actually don’t have a lot of comments in regards to your class, it is very solid. Great job! I look forward to seeing the completed version (if you’d like, I can share my own alchemist with you – there may be some ideas there for additional formulae).

Here are the few thoughts I do have…


The core class is really bereft of fluff/ribbon features. I’m guessing the intent is to pack most of those into the Houses, but I feel that there should be at least a couple skill/social/exploration features (aside from Toxin Immunity) as part of the basic kit.
I’d guess the intent is to somewhat replicate an Int-based caster with readied spells. That being said, I don’t feel that the requirement for ‘Formulae Readied’ adds a lot to the class. It’s another (small) layer of administrative management for little gain/reason. I personally don’t think it would impact the power curve too much if this was removed an alchemist could prepare up to their maximum number of formulaes chosen from any of the formulae that they know.
Catalysts. Did I tell you how much I love this? Ha.
The Houses are certainly find and fill their niches (with some nice touches – Auric transmutation is very flavorful, a great reskin of flesh to stone). I’ve not quite warmed up yet to the House of Astrology but I can see that it fills a niche and is well flavored (it’s just hard for me to make the mental jump from alchemy to astrology).


Again, great job! Lots of good stuff here so, for the sake of providing things for me to plagiarize, please finish this class.

My GMBinder version now has base effects for about half of the Journeyman formula (no catalyst effects yet), so I am still working on it slowly. I am on the road for about a week coming up but will have my laptop so I should be able to work on it.

The intent with readied formula was indeed to limit their in the moment flexibility, but given that unlike 5e prepared casters they don't keep their creations after consumption I can see your point. Trimming that also will give me room to add more flavor features like you said (though a lot of skill bonuses are/will be tied up in formulae like spellcasters have theirs tied up in spells, I can give them some built-in ability to recognize codes at level 1 for sure, and come up with something else probably for the mid-teens).

I was pretty proud of the catalyst feature when I came up with it so I am glad you like it. I'd be happy to hear about any formula or catalyst ideas you have to fill in my gaps also, just send me a message.

Thanks for the feedback!

While I am here, some more unorthodox "element" ideas:

The cardinal directions (north, south, east, west)
The phases of the moon (anywhere from 2 with just new and full to 8 with waxing and waning crescent, gibbous, and the first and third quarter could be justified)

Requilac
2018-09-03, 12:50 PM
Okay I just finished my class for this competition; the firestorm avatar. I really would have liked to do the elemental shifter more, but trying to balance it was incredibly tedious and this solution seems much better. Most of the features of the current class where actually migrated straight from my notes for the elemental shifter. Any help on improving the class is much appreciated.

pygmybatrider
2018-09-10, 03:49 AM
Posting revised version of shaman now. Instead of working off a bardish base with Enhancement as a Valorish subclass, I made the shaman a half-caster base ala paladin and tried to give the Elemental and Restoration subclasses more things to do outside using spell slots. I think it worked alright with Ele, maybe less so with Resto.

Enhancement feels like it could also use some love, but a bit unsure of where to go. I am much happier with this than the last draft. Going to take a break from it for a while, will read all your guys' in the next few days and give some feedback/hopefully find some ideas to steal.... :-)

MoleMage
2018-09-15, 02:41 PM
Another alchemist update is upon us! I am now slightly more than halfway through formula creation, and have finished formulae up to Journeyman tier. Still interested in any ideas people have for Expert or Master formulae (names for some of my intended effects are in the PDF) and any catalyst effects they think could go on existing formulae with only 2 effects (2-3 per formula is my goal but I ended up landing on 2 a lot more for Journeyman than I did for Apprentice). If you have an idea for the effect, you don't need to assign it a catalyst, I can pick one that I think fits.

I ended up putting some of the "exploration/social" into optional formulae (Truth Serum, Elixir of the Chameleon, Flask Familiar, Rod of Purification), but am still considering throwing in a level ~10 social/exploration feature, if I can come up with an idea for one.

PhoenixPhyre
2018-09-15, 02:47 PM
I posted my Planar Warrior a few days ago and would love to hear feedback on it.

I'm pretty sure the spell-list is still too big for a half-caster and some of the sub-class features are a bit too copy-paste. I'd love to get more interaction between the Planar Strike (which I may rename to Echoing Strike) and the sub-classes, but ran out of ideas.

Mourne
2018-09-15, 07:41 PM
Another alchemist update is upon us! I am now slightly more than halfway through formula creation, and have finished formulae up to Journeyman tier. Still interested in any ideas people have for Expert or Master formulae (names for some of my intended effects are in the PDF) and any catalyst effects they think could go on existing formulae with only 2 effects (2-3 per formula is my goal but I ended up landing on 2 a lot more for Journeyman than I did for Apprentice). If you have an idea for the effect, you don't need to assign it a catalyst, I can pick one that I think fits.

Looking even better!

I never quite finished my Alchemist class, but feel free to use anything that you find useful... Alchemist (https://www.gmbinder.com/share/-L7IkBxICzhP5yUBkYXQ). Your catalyst mechanic (which I now realize is a clever/creative application of metamagic?) actually somewhat inspired me to finish my attempt. The work of converting the current mechanic to the use of catalysts proved daunting... so I decided to wait until you were done and /cough/ borrow /cough/ large swathes from your class.

Mourne
2018-09-15, 07:44 PM
I posted my Planar Warrior a few days ago and would love to hear feedback on it.

I'm pretty sure the spell-list is still too big for a half-caster and some of the sub-class features are a bit too copy-paste. I'd love to get more interaction between the Planar Strike (which I may rename to Echoing Strike) and the sub-classes, but ran out of ideas.

I hope to have time to do some reviewing this weekend. If I don't get to it soon, the pull of the new Bard's Tale and the CRPG version of Pathfinder: Kingmaker may make me AWOL for quite a while. :smalleek:

Mourne
2018-09-17, 11:08 PM
I posted my Planar Warrior a few days ago and would love to hear feedback on it.

Ask and ye shall receive... :smallwink:

Sorry that I did not get to the archetypes. I feel that there’s enough stuff to address in the base class that I didn’t want to get into the Planar Devotions.

In the end – and apologies for probably coming across as brusque (so little time) – I think that this is basically the Fighter, except more powerful with better than EK spellcasting thrown in . I’ll touch upon each of the core class features briefly.

I also am not getting an obvious "feel" from the core class (but I'm guessing the Planar Devotions are what lock in the theme).

Planar Attunement
Similar to old school ranger’s Favored Terrain. I don’t see anything broken here but it would also be very situational. What if your group never travels to another plane (and even if this does occur, it likely will not happen until a much higher level)?

Protective Ward
This could prove to be pretty powerful for a d10, medium armor class. Scales up to essentially DR 6/everything (and can be easily dipped as a multiclass as it scales with prof. bonus -- how is this intended to interact with damage resistance such as from the barbarian’s Rage?).

This is arguably better than the stone skin spell (4th level spell) other than duration as it only costs a bonus action and doesn’t require any sort of concentration.

How would you envision this playing with the Heavy Armor Master feat?

Fighting Style
Standard fighting styles. Seems to be pointing this class towards a front-line melee combatant (especially considering Protective Ward).

Spellcasting
A half caster with a pretty decent spell selection.

Planar Strike
Further augment to offensive skills (and no action cost to boot – you would/will always do this if you hit). This is essentially granting the Extra Attack feature at 3rd level.

Note that, as written, you could still Planar Strike on an opportunity attack (as it’s not on your turn) so would have two attacks there also. Is this intended/wanted?

Given that the Planar Strike is a “weaker duplicate”, does it still do d6 if the triggering attack was a from a d4 weapon? Would it be more in line with the intent to have Planar Strike still require an attack roll but only do half the damage of the triggering (main) attack? This would go a ways in addressing the overall melee/combat prowess of this class at later levels.

Extra Attack
The extra attack. Of course, with Planar Strike, you now have essentially 3 attacks per turn which a Fighter does not get until 11th level.

Planar Resistance
Resistance – unlimited – as long as you have spell slots and covers two damage types. This is much better than the 3rd level spell protection from energy as it covers two (and expanded) “energies” and doesn’t require concentration. Also can cover additional creatures.

Improved Protective Ward
Does this require anything on yours or the other creature’s part (e.g. a reaction)? Or is it just at will? Does this mean that, for the duration of the ward, it covers the other creature?

I would consider having an action economy cost to activate this.

Planar Jaunt
Teleport, short rest.

Improved Planar Strike
Major upgrade to Planar Strike (and damage generation in general). Note again that the Planar Warrior would have 2 Attacks + 1 Planar Strike matching the number of attacks a fighter has at this same level. Of course, the Planar Warrior has the potential of additional Planar Strikes on an opportunity attack – more if they have Polearm Master.

Perfected Protective Ward
Some bookkeeping to do here to track the absorption – potentially a lot of bookkeeping :smallfrown:

What would prevent an ally from beating on you and then healing you to build up a massive pool of temp HPs? I mean you could potentially have hundreds of temp HPs in this way for only the cost of one activation of your protective ward.

Perfected Planar Strike
Essentially 4 base attacks (which is more than the fighter has until 20th level) – 2 from extra attacks and 2 from Planar Strike.

Planar Body
Fluff though no needing to breathe has some potential benefits (e.g. poison gasses).

Planar Bond
IMO….I think there’s enough issues with Protective Ward that this is very, very OP.

PhoenixPhyre
2018-09-18, 07:49 AM
Ask and ye shall receive... :smallwink:

Sorry that I did not get to the archetypes. I feel that there’s enough stuff to address in the base class that I didn’t want to get into the Planar Devotions.

In the end – and apologies for probably coming across as brusque (so little time) – I think that this is basically the Fighter, except more powerful with better than EK spellcasting thrown in . I’ll touch upon each of the core class features briefly.

I also am not getting an obvious "feel" from the core class (but I'm guessing the Planar Devotions are what lock in the theme).


The Planar Devotions tie it to a pair of inner planes (treating the Shadowfell and Feywild as "elemental" planes more broadly). So yeah. That's where the elemental flavor comes from.



Planar Attunement
Similar to old school ranger’s Favored Terrain. I don’t see anything broken here but it would also be very situational. What if your group never travels to another plane (and even if this does occur, it likely will not happen until a much higher level)?


The meat is the arcana proficiency/limited expertise, not the "immune to planar effects" piece (since that's, as you said, so situational). Lots of campaigns deal with fey or elementals (and some creatures have shadowfell ties as well) at lower levels.



Protective Ward
This could prove to be pretty powerful for a d10, medium armor class. Scales up to essentially DR 6/everything (and can be easily dipped as a multiclass as it scales with prof. bonus -- how is this intended to interact with damage resistance such as from the barbarian’s Rage?).

This is arguably better than the stone skin spell (4th level spell) other than duration as it only costs a bonus action and doesn’t require any sort of concentration.

How would you envision this playing with the Heavy Armor Master feat?


The idea was for it to be a resource-costly alternate shield. Instead of making it harder to hit, make it so you take less damage. I could have it only have a couple (fixed) uses and reduce based on INT instead, making it harder to dip for (since it wouldn't scale with any stat most classes want to pump high). As for HAM, that's already 2 feats or a 1 feat and a multi-classing dip (since they don't get heavy armor proficiency). I don't balance around multi-classing, not up front anyway.

I could also drop the hit die to d8.



Fighting Style
Standard fighting styles. Seems to be pointing this class towards a front-line melee combatant (especially considering Protective Ward).


Yup. A heavy combatant, just without heavy armor. Some of the subclasses point to more ranged, but it should be durable.



Spellcasting
A half caster with a pretty decent spell selection.


I need to cut down the spell list still, since I just basically threw all the "elemental theme" spells on there. The goal is more of the paladin or ranger list in size.



Planar Strike
Further augment to offensive skills (and no action cost to boot – you would/will always do this if you hit). This is essentially granting the Extra Attack feature at 3rd level.

Note that, as written, you could still Planar Strike on an opportunity attack (as it’s not on your turn) so would have two attacks there also. Is this intended/wanted?

Given that the Planar Strike is a “weaker duplicate”, does it still do d6 if the triggering attack was a from a d4 weapon? Would it be more in line with the intent to have Planar Strike still require an attack roll but only do half the damage of the triggering (main) attack? This would go a ways in addressing the overall melee/combat prowess of this class at later levels.


This was designed to be a passive mini-"smite". But yeah, it's probably too much.
The bold might work. I'll add an "on your turn" restriction, as I don't want this on OAs.



Extra Attack
The extra attack. Of course, with Planar Strike, you now have essentially 3 attacks per turn which a Fighter does not get until 11th level.


I'm going for 2.5 attacks, since they don't get any other smite-like burst or Action Surge.



Planar Resistance
Resistance – unlimited – as long as you have spell slots and covers two damage types. This is much better than the 3rd level spell protection from energy as it covers two (and expanded) “energies” and doesn’t require concentration. Also can cover additional creatures.


Dropped to 1 damage type and concentration.



Improved Protective Ward
Does this require anything on yours or the other creature’s part (e.g. a reaction)? Or is it just at will? Does this mean that, for the duration of the ward, it covers the other creature?

I would consider having an action economy cost to activate this.


It's intended to make it so only the other creature gets the benefit (not you). Still costs a bonus action on your turn to activate (because it's still Protective Ward) Re-reading it, it should be a reaction to activate. So you get the bonus except when you give it to someone else for a turn.



Planar Jaunt
Teleport, short rest.


Short-range, yes. The Devotions add riders to this.



Improved Planar Strike
Major upgrade to Planar Strike (and damage generation in general). Note again that the Planar Warrior would have 2 Attacks + 1 Planar Strike matching the number of attacks a fighter has at this same level. Of course, the Planar Warrior has the potential of additional Planar Strikes on an opportunity attack – more if they have Polearm Master.


With the changes to Planar Strike, I've scrubbed this entirely.



Perfected Protective Ward
Some bookkeeping to do here to track the absorption – potentially a lot of bookkeeping :smallfrown:

What would prevent an ally from beating on you and then healing you to build up a massive pool of temp HPs? I mean you could potentially have hundreds of temp HPs in this way for only the cost of one activation of your protective ward.


I need to re-think this currently. Now provides a fixed, level-scaling amount as long as the ward absorbed any damage from a hostile creature.



Perfected Planar Strike
Essentially 4 base attacks (which is more than the fighter has until 20th level) – 2 from extra attacks and 2 from Planar Strike.


With the change to the base strike, does that fix this? It comes out to a possible 2 + 1/2 + 1/2 attacks.



Planar Body
Fluff though no needing to breathe has some potential benefits (e.g. poison gasses).

Planar Bond
IMO….I think there’s enough issues with Protective Ward that this is very, very OP.

Would it be fine if it the base is toned down (like only having 2-ish uses/rest and scaling off of INT instead of proficiency)?

Thanks for your feedback.

Mourne
2018-09-18, 04:42 PM
PhoenixPhyre -- I'll take a look at your changes later this evening. Hopefully my comments were (constructively) helpful. :smallsmile:

On a side note, I really enjoy your thematic spell groupings -- very useful and saved me some work. Good job!

Mourne
2018-09-18, 04:52 PM
Here's my quick take/2 cents on Requilac's Firestorm Avatar...

Elemental Body (Level 1)

Pretty straight forward and could lead to some imaginative/interesting visuals (“upon being struck with the axe, your acidic blood splashes across the face of your foe”).

I do worry that this doesn’t scale in any way. It seems like it might become somewhat understated at higher levels. Maybe consider a cantrip style scaling? Maybe not needed as Sculpt Destruction (and, later, Retribution) seem to be the bread-and-butter pain bringer.

Sculpt Destruction (Level 1)
Would prefer to see number of uses linked to something other than proficiency bonus but that’s just a pet peeve of mine.

Control Elements (Level 1)
Quite the laundry list! Maybe a little complex… why not just grant access to the relevant cantrips? I do have a couple minor concerns here: The clearing of difficult terrain would allow for the Avatar (out of combat) to completely clear a vast area of difficult terrain (i.e. an entire forest floor). Also, the creation of water – given unlimited time – could result in a new ocean.

These quibbles are probably too literal interpretations of how this is intended to be used.

Retribution (Level 2)
I’d almost like to see this replace Elemental Body (they seem redundant other than one is passive and one is reactive), leaving Sculpt and Control as the only level 1 features – leaving design room to add another fluff/thematic feature.

Primordial Tongue (Level 2)
Basic ribbon (the birds and reptiles rider adds a nice kicker)

Portentious Awareness (Level 3)
A very ribbony-ribbon. Not sure how much use/value this would provide. Very DM dependent.

Ability Score Improvement (Level 4)
The fighter progression. Intended?

Imbued Weapon (Level 5)
“Can cause…” implies some action cost? Or is it “free”? The 11th level progression is a nice/interesting touch.

Stormborn (Level 7)
I think (purely opinion here) that the wings detract from the theme which isn’t transmutation in any way. It would be more fitting to just simply be able to fly – carried by gusts of wind – than to grow organic wings. Regardless, feature works at this level.

Summon Elementals (Level 10)
I can get behind a summoning feature. Sadly, I didn’t copy the mephits to be able to review them – will get them later.

(Level 11)
Why no feature for this level? This is supposed to be the tier 3 power bump feature (well, if one follows the informal and subjective “rules”). Or are the retribution progressions meant to be the power bump?

Weaponized Weather (Level 13)
Can this be used indoors? Can you cause rain and then freeze it? Would strong winds impact creatures on the ice (or would that be a DM fiat type thing)? Is concentration required?

One with the Flames (Level 17)
So you must use an Athletics check or have a swim speed?

Spiritual Warlord (Level 20)
Fair. Maybe a tad underwhelming. Capstones are so hard to judge.

Overall seems good -- nice job on a theme that doesn't seem to have grabbed any of us by the creative bits! Nothing stands out as particularly OP. I'll take a look at the Elemental Branching this evening -- I imagine a lot of the flavor comes from there. Also curious as to how much power they add.

Requilac
2018-09-19, 02:13 AM
Here's my quick take/2 cents on Requilac's Firestorm Avatar...

Elemental Body (Level 1)

Pretty straight forward and could lead to some imaginative/interesting visuals (“upon being struck with the axe, your acidic blood splashes across the face of your foe”).

I do worry that this doesn’t scale in any way. It seems like it might become somewhat understated at higher levels. Maybe consider a cantrip style scaling? Maybe not needed as Sculpt Destruction (and, later, Retribution) seem to be the bread-and-butter pain bringer.

Yeah, having the damage scale does seem like a good idea. Cantrip scaling seems like it might be a little too much though. Maybe an unconventional version where instead of the number of die increases with level, the die itself is increasing.




Sculpt Destruction (Level 1)
Would prefer to see number of uses linked to something other than proficiency bonus but that’s just a pet peeve of mine.

My reasoning behind making the number of uses equal to proficiency bonus is to scale the feature's power over time. That and basing it off of an ability score would make this class way too powerful at the early levels.




Control Elements (Level 1)
Quite the laundry list! Maybe a little complex… why not just grant access to the relevant cantrips? I do have a couple minor concerns here: The clearing of difficult terrain would allow for the Avatar (out of combat) to completely clear a vast area of difficult terrain (i.e. an entire forest floor). Also, the creation of water – given unlimited time – could result in a new ocean.

These quibbles are probably too literal interpretations of how this is intended to be used.

I thought it would actually be much easier to use the feature if all of its possible effects were in one easy reference space. Otherwise you would have to constantly flip back and forth through multiple books for each of the individual cantrips. This just makes it easier to use.

Point noted on the clearing of difficult terrain though, that only lasts for 1 minute.

And I don't see why the creation of water is that big of a problem. One can only create a 5 ft. cube of water per action really. If a player really wants to dedicate I don't want to count how many years to create an ocean than why not just let them. It's not like it will have any immediate relevancy. The same thing could be said about create or destroy water. If given unlimited time a person with that spell could also create an ocean.




Portentious Awareness (Level 3)
A very ribbony-ribbon. Not sure how much use/value this would provide. Very DM dependent.

I was personally thinking that if a DM were to allow an avatar that they would provide a plot point where this feature can be useful, but that is just a hope.




Ability Score Improvement (Level 4)
The fighter progression. Intended?

The fighter progression is intended. I was trying to represent how easy it is for elements to change over time.




Imbued Weapon (Level 5)
“Can cause…” implies some action cost? Or is it “free”? The 11th level progression is a nice/interesting touch.

It is an ability that is free to use, you just don't have to use it, hence can cause. I don't know why you wouldn't, but I still include the choice anyway because "why not?"



Stormborn (Level 7)
I think (purely opinion here) that the wings detract from the theme which isn’t transmutation in any way. It would be more fitting to just simply be able to fly – carried by gusts of wind – than to grow organic wings. Regardless, feature works at this level.

Fair enough. The flavor wording has been changed.



(Level 11)
Why no feature for this level? This is supposed to be the tier 3 power bump feature (well, if one follows the informal and subjective “rules”). Or are the retribution progressions meant to be the power bump?

I was considering the improvement to imbued weapon as the power bump feature for level 11.



Weaponized Weather (Level 13)
Can this be used indoors? Can you cause rain and then freeze it? Would strong winds impact creatures on the ice (or would that be a DM fiat type thing)? Is concentration required?

All but the snow option can be used indoors. You cannot cause the rain and then freeze it, but cancelling the rain as a bonus action than applying the snow option would do the same thing. Concentration is not required. And I don't understand what you by saying "Would strong winds impact creatures on the ice?".



One with the Flames (Level 17)
So you must use an Athletics check or have a swim speed?

An athletics check or swim speed isn't necessary, which is why I said "you can move vertically through flames almost as if you were swimming".



Overall seems good -- nice job on a theme that doesn't seem to have grabbed any of us by the creative bits! Nothing stands out as particularly OP. I'll take a look at the Elemental Branching this evening -- I imagine a lot of the flavor comes from there. Also curious as to how much power they add.

Yeah, this one wasn't quite such an odd take on the theme for sure. Interesting how you say it doesn't sound OP, because I was worried the amount of damage it could deal would be overboard. This project was a lot harder for me to balance than the others due to its primary focus of dealing damage, which if overpowered upsets the game balance much more than say, trivializing exploration encounters like the investigator could.

And the elemental branchings are really just a ribbon for the class itself. Most of the flavor really doesn't come from them and the power they add is minimal.

Mourne
2018-09-19, 04:16 PM
Mostly final version of my Earthbinder posted. Not sure if I have much left for this particular class... certainly any feedback would be appreciated.

I still plan on doing a quick review of the Galean and Geomancer in the coming days.

MoleMage
2018-09-19, 04:41 PM
Okay, I think I just need one more alchemist update and I will have finished all of my formulae. Only 8 left (two expert, and all six master). Changes posted and changelog noted in the submissions thread. I'm gonna make it!

EDIT: Once I get my final version up tomorrow I will try to give short reviews to every other submission. I likely won't have time to break down all of the mechanics for everyone but I think I'll have time to broad strokes everything tomorrow. Sorry I didn't get to it sooner I know these last minute edits are tough to pull off.

MoleMage
2018-09-20, 05:16 PM
Alright, the alchemist is finished!

Feedback follows.

Gaiean: Your document could use a cleanup to make it look and read nicer. Note bonus damage on melee attacks is a little strong with the Unarmed Fighting style you introduced (especially with Fire Sheath, allowing effectively 6d6 + 3x Dex + 6x Wis at level 6, with the dice increasing up to d10s by level 17). Sheath lasts a long enough time that gaining extra uses of it whenever you get a new sheath feature is probably overkill. The level 13 effects of Air and Fire are crazy strong (a ten minute concentration spell cast as a one hour non-concentration spell for free, at that point 5 times per day?). Demielemental node's wording is unclear (does it just change the damage type of the node? if so why is it 1/long rest?). Purification feels at odds with what the rest of the class does (a healing effect in a class that otherwise is essentially a fire/earth/airbender).
TLDR: Document should be beautified, and class features could stand to be more dynamic.

Geomancer: About half of your fighting styles are just better versions of existing fighting styles. Mariner is just better than Defense considering the class doesn't even get heavy armor proficiency. I would swap War Magic and Extra Attack. Expanded War Magic and Flurry of War Magic have the exact same effect. Quicksilver's Quick Strikes would read better if it just said the dice size and when they increase. Quicksilver coating has a high number of uses compared to similar features. Silvered weapons lets you choose your damage type, but sounds like it would make your weapons count as silver, and the AC bonus specifies ray spells which isn't a type of spell in 5e. Blood Money's wording is weird and its baseline effect is not strong enough to justify the amount of damage it deals. Golden Wish should probably specify non-consumable magic item. Aurification make me smile because my Alchemical House of Transfiguration gets essentially the same feature. Graphene Transmuation's interaction with Hammerspace is unclear. Magnetic Aura has a high number of uses. Blast of Genius seems like the spells shouldn't count against your total number of spells known. Greater Ferrous Aura got cut off for me.
TLDR: Your class has a lot of cool features and a cool design, but features it shares with other classes are received too early or are outright better than the mirror, and its limited-use features are probably available too often.

Earthbinder: Overall, I like the flavor of this class but too many of its resources are either random or dependent on character wealth instead of character level or both. Stone Caller seems like it should call for a spell attack roll. Mineral Harvest doesn't specify how often or what type of action it takes to use it. Glyptic Runes requiring empowered gemstones means this class functionally has a random number of spells each day (since mineral harvest rolls to determine how many gems are produced). Prismatic Steps is a neat inversion of shadow step. Strength of Stone's prevent dying feature should have a loophole or cooldown. Petrifying Touch is gained at 7th level but mimics a spell unavailable to casters lower than 11th level. Strength of Iron's shield limb probably doesn't need the caveat about two-handed attacks as it already drains the action economy.
TLDR: Your class has a cool flavor but it needs to have its resource management normalized and some of its features have unclear action requirements.

Firestorm Avatar: Sculpt Destruction (thunder) targets a secondary save instead of a primary save like the other two. I would also make Sculpt Destruction have a consistent area rather than choosing from a list. Both Sculpt Destruction and Retribution have unusual usage numbers when compared to existing 5e limited-use class features. Imbued Weapons (level 11 version) gives sustained guaranteed damage, which is unusual but not overpowered (I think). Stormborn seems like it is acquired too early but I don't have my splats handy to see when Storm Sorcerers get flight to compare. Weaponized Weather should probably be limited-use. Your subclasses all get a Sculpt Destruction expansion at level 18 but as that's a bread-and-butter feature of the class I would expect the subclass improvements to it to come much earlier in the subclass.
TLDR: The limited use features have strange usage numbers. Subclasses have an odd progression. Overall I think all of the features are sound mechanically and the concept is unique in that it combines two specific elements rather than manipulating elements in general.

Shaman: As a half-caster the shaman could probably get medium armor without going too far (plus Shamans in Warcraft wear mail so it fits with source). Resistance Totem's effect feels too weak at early levels when it's acquired and quickly improves to be too strong at higher levels by my estimate. Shock spells should probably do 2 dice of damage for 1st level, plus one for each higher level, similar to smite. Their riders are already compensated by the smaller die size and not doing a free bonus die to undead and fiends. Wind shear's primary function (interrupting concentration) doesn't scale with slot level. I like that Elemental Fury is an option between improving attacks and improving lightning bolt. Specializations look good, but Chain Heal and Water Shield give Shamans outright the best spell economy for using Cure Wounds (or Healing Word if they multiclass). I would make those features interact with Healing Stream instead of spell slots.
TLDR: Overall its really good, but some things scale unevenly and the exclusive damage features feel weak at a glance compared to similar features in other classes.

Planar Warrior: Protective Ward should specify how it interacts with resistance and whether it stacks with similar damage reduction. Planar Strike is cool as a feature, but I don't necessarily see it as iconic of the theme, and its interactions with damage modifiers are very strong (getting a magic weapon that adds extra dice of damage, or multiclassing with Rogue or Paladin makes it insanely valuable compared to its baseline value). Improved Protective Ward could be easier to follow, and it should clarify how it interacts with modifications like Perfected Ward and the Devotion Wards (does the ally you use this feature on gain those benefits as well? do you retain all benefits other than the damage reduction?). All of the devotions look alright to me. You need a level 11 feature to replace Improved Planar Strike.
TLDR: The base class doesn't have a lot of consistent identity as a planar warrior, but the devotions pull their weight to make up the difference. All of the features look good individually but interactions with other features both in this class and outside it could use clarification.

PhoenixPhyre
2018-09-20, 05:55 PM
Planar Warrior:
(1) Protective Ward should specify how it interacts with resistance and whether it stacks with similar damage reduction.
(2) Planar Strike is cool as a feature, but I don't necessarily see it as iconic of the theme, and its interactions with damage modifiers are very strong (getting a magic weapon that adds extra dice of damage, or multiclassing with Rogue or Paladin makes it insanely valuable compared to its baseline value).
(3) Improved Protective Ward could be easier to follow, and it should clarify how it interacts with modifications like Perfected Ward and the Devotion Wards (does the ally you use this feature on gain those benefits as well? do you retain all benefits other than the damage reduction?).
(4) All of the devotions look alright to me.
(5) You need a level 11 feature to replace Improved Planar Strike.
TLDR: The base class doesn't have a lot of consistent identity as a planar warrior, but the devotions pull their weight to make up the difference. All of the features look good individually but interactions with other features both in this class and outside it could use clarification.

1) yeah. I'll probably go with "stacks normally". But the interaction with resistance is built into the rules themselves--it comes off first (so (X-Y)/2). It's in the Damage Resistance and Vulnerability section of the Combat chapter (SRD 97).

2) My original intent was that it would get modified by the devotions, but that fell through the cracks. The thematic idea is that you're pulling some of the planar energy (Ethereal because it's the border plane) around your weapon or spell. I'll probably limit it to half of the weapon damage (so smite/sneak attack don't matter). I'm not worried about magic weapons.

3) Added "If you have abilities that modify your Protective Ward, they do not function while the ward is active on another character." They just get the base effect and you get nothing for that turn.

4) Thanks. I was trying to think of ways for the Devotions to affect the strike (for those that might not want to teleport as much), but have run dry on ideas.

5) As a stop-gap I've added another Planar Adaptation rank there. I'd like something better, but don't have any good ideas.

My idea for the class itself was that the base class introduces someone who's not quite of this world. Someone attuned to the other planes, who can manipulate the energies (the base class uses the Ethereal in my head-canon) to protect (shunting some of the energy into the liminal space), attack (warping that energy back into the blade to try again like a time echo of the strike), and move (teleporting through the border ethereal). The Devotions tie them to the inner planes much more firmly, representing reaching out through the Ethereal to aspects of two of the planes.

I did just rename Planar Strike to Echoing Strike and added some descriptive language to that and to protective ward to tie them to the theme better.

Requilac
2018-09-20, 10:22 PM
Firestorm Avatar: Sculpt Destruction (thunder) targets a secondary save instead of a primary save like the other two. I would also make Sculpt Destruction have a consistent area rather than choosing from a list. Both Sculpt Destruction and Retribution have unusual usage numbers when compared to existing 5e limited-use class features. Imbued Weapons (level 11 version) gives sustained guaranteed damage, which is unusual but not overpowered (I think). Stormborn seems like it is acquired too early but I don't have my splats handy to see when Storm Sorcerers get flight to compare. Weaponized Weather should probably be limited-use. Your subclasses all get a Sculpt Destruction expansion at level 18 but as that's a bread-and-butter feature of the class I would expect the subclass improvements to it to come much earlier in the subclass.
TLDR: The limited use features have strange usage numbers. Subclasses have an odd progression. Overall I think all of the features are sound mechanically and the concept is unique in that it combines two specific elements rather than manipulating elements in general.


Thank you for making these comments. This was a hard class to create and I need all the help I can get. I am sincerely sorry that I did not have the time to review your class, maybe next time. But until then, here are my responses.

1) I don't see anything wrong with making the thunder option for Sculpt Destruction target Strength saves. Many creatures have great bonuses to them. Perhaps not as much as Con or Dex but is is significant number. I doubt how much this will actually matter in play.

2) I find myself confused by what you are saying. What do you mean by "Both Sculpt Destruction and Retribution have unusual usage numbers when compared to existing 5e limited-use class features." Damage scaling up with level isn't that foreign of a concept.

3) Imbued weapons is not the only feature that gives a consistent means of guaranteed damage; the evocation wizard's Potent Cantrip also has a similar effect; and it's even given at a lower level.

4) Why should weaponized weather be limited use. It's really not that powerful of an ability and its use is incredibly niche.

5) The centralness of Sculpt Destruction is why the subclass capstone is based around it. The subclass capstone should feel like the most powerful feature, and by having it effect a "bread and butter" feature it emphasizes that power.

pygmybatrider
2018-09-21, 02:22 AM
Appreciate the feedback MoleMage! Very thorough, and picked up on things other people hadn't. Updated a few things in response - the base class now gets medium armour and martial weapons, and Enhancement gets an extra d6 boost to Shocks at level 3. I had limited the damage so much because they work with LLB, but sort of neglected Enhancement. Water Shield bonus applies to Healing Surge dice only, and Resistance totem grants DR equal to prof + Wis. Maybe not perfect yet, but definitely better. It was always going to be hard to manage a class with 3 subclasses with totally different focuses. Thankyou!

I have already read through a few classes and jotted some notes, but I will sit down later tonight and formulate some proper responses for you guys.

First 2:

I like the strong connection to the theme, really apparent throughout. Could do with some more fluff I think to nail down the 'feel' of the class. Where do they get their power from, what do they usually do for a living, how many are there, do they group together?

Elemental Core: probably fine power-wise but a little confusing thematically. Are they Aang the Avatar-style masters of all four elements? That seems to clash with the sheaths. Maybe they should pick one?
Motes: could probably be simplified. Do they need to have both an offensive and defensive mode? There are a lot of ways to trigger the damage...
Fighting Styles: some balance concerns over unarmed style as 1d8 is essentially a free feat, and the only other class that gets to make 3 1d10 attacks a turn is a Fighter.
Elemental Stride:Earth and Fire seem much stronger and more relevant/likely to be used than Air and Water.
Elemental Servants: Thematic ability, but it seems strange to give both minor elementals and elementals at the same level.
Mask of War: nice ribbon ability. The class could probably use a few more like it overall.
Purification: another nice thematic feature which will probably see some use as well.
Reactive Sheath: my inner child can't stop giggling at the name. But probably unnecessary given how.
Elemental Lord: a very DM-dependent capstone. Could leave you feeling very OP or like you've wasted your level 20 feature.
Earth Sheath:seems unsure if it has a defensive or offensive focus. Titan Stomp seems to have good synergy with the feature that clears difficult terrain - that's a nice touch.
Air Sheath:vector is cool, as is feather fall. As stated above level 13 ability is very strong.
Fire Sheath:early and easy access to resistance to one of the most common damage types is a bit of a worry. The extra damage also racks up very quickly. Mantle of Flame could probably do to be a repeated check or save at the end of a turn rather than an action. Life Burn needs re-wording, I don't really understand how it works.

Overall: Very cool thematically, probably needs a few more ribbon/social/noncombat features, and some reworking of the power levels.

Love the idea of working with non-standard elements. Works well as a half-caster, seems fitting for every superhero movie bad guy ever.
Fighting Styles:Like MoleMage said, these are pretty much straight upgrades to most PHB options. + spellcasting modifier to cantrip damage doesn't come til 6 for Evocation wizards and 8 for Clerics.
War Magic:thematic but seems strong, coming earlier than EKs or Valor Bards.
Extra Attack:odd scaling levels, and the only class to get 3 attacks.
Additional Fighting Style & Improved Critical: solid abilities that aren't too strong, but seem to step a little on the Champion's toes.
Capstone is probably fine.

Quicksilver: Quicksilver Coating has a lot of positives and can be used a heap of times. Should probably be Int mod/ per long rest, or once per short rest. 11th level feature makes this even more powerful if you can use it pretty much at will.
Silvered Weapons: wording could be cleared up around "choose a damage type" - any? Like force or radiant? Or acid/poison as mentioned in the other features?

Aurum: Glint would probably work best as a ribbon without the prone feature. Can you throw gold at a bear and make him grab it?
Blood Money: interesting concept, really love the imagery of this. I suggest reducing max HP rather than damaging Con, in increments - eg 1d6 per 500gp material.
Golden Wish:might be better to specify a few items, as the power range in uncommon/rare is pretty
Aurification: again, really loving the thematic part of this subclass. Should probably specify how to remove the condition, and give more than one save to turn into gold.

Grapheme: 1st level feature is fine, same as Forge Cleric.
Hammerspace: cool. Might make dual wielders easier to work with.
Rapid Prototyping: probably needs to be worded more clearly. What can you do with the object? Does it function as it normally would?
Improved Hammerspace: seems to be good for changing between ranged/melee weapons in combat. Ignoring loading makes Heavy Crossbows very attractive.
Conductive Transparency: more confusing wording - it says you can use Absorb Elements "at will", but should probably say "once".

Ferrum: 1st level feature is cool and seems fine mechanically.
Magnetic Aura: like Quicksilver, has a lot of benefits and a lot of uses.
Rust Aura: can quickly turn armoured goblins into naked ones.
Blast of Genius: should probably be 'extra' spells rather than cutting off your Geomancer options. Also - are we missing a spell list?
Greater Ferrous Aura: this ability and normal Rust Auras also have a lot of bookkeeping required. Maybe it could change to something like a limited-use Cutting Words, using your reaction to take a d6/d8/whatever away from their attack roll to turn it into a miss, and fluff-wise it's your magnetic aura deflecting the weapon.

Overall, some really nice visuals and ideas for features in here, with distinct feels for each subclass. Could do with some simplification. Aurum is very cool.

BlueHairedKat
2018-09-21, 06:15 AM
The kineticist will be joining the party just as soon as I've made enough posts on this forum to post a link, so... watch this space, I guess?

EDIT: Kineticist posted in the body of the post. I don't know why I thought making ten non-spammy forum posts would be easier than reformatting my class for the forum...

MoleMage
2018-09-21, 08:19 AM
2) I find myself confused by what you are saying. What do you mean by "Both Sculpt Destruction and Retribution have unusual usage numbers when compared to existing 5e limited-use class features." Damage scaling up with level isn't that foreign of a concept.

3) Imbued weapons is not the only feature that gives a consistent means of guaranteed damage; the evocation wizard's Potent Cantrip also has a similar effect; and it's even given at a lower level.

4) Why should weaponized weather be limited use. It's really not that powerful of an ability and its use is incredibly niche.


2) The scaling isn't the odd thing to me, the frequency (number of uses per day) felt odd to me. Proficiency bonus times per long rest and Charisma or level (whichever is lower) times per long rest are both unique to this class. The 5e norm would be either based on a Stat (Cha bonus per long rest) or static based on levels in the class (2, with an additional use at 5, 9, 13, and 17; a number of times equal to half your Firestorm Avatar levels). There's nothing inherently broken about your numbers they just are outside the mould.

3) I forgot about Potent Cantrip. Carry on then.

4) Causing Light Obscuring, Difficult Terrain, or disadvantage on ranged attacks are all powerful enough to justify limited use in my opinion, especially considering that the class can fly and therefor ignores the difficult terrain part and often must be targeted at range. The feature also implies but does not specify that it can only be used outside (if it is intended to be outside-only it is weakened somewhat but still useful in a lot of cases).


The kineticist will be joining the party just as soon as I've made enough posts on this forum to post a link, so... watch this space, I guess?

EDIT: Kineticist posted in the body of the post. I don't know why I thought making ten non-spammy forum posts would be easier than reformatting my class for the forum...

Kineticist: Typically if a class has an armor proficiency its starting gear includes that armor (leather, scale mail, or chain mail, depending). Do conjurations have effective spell levels for interaction with Dispel Magic and Counterspell? Conjuration as a term clashes with the spellcasting school. Focus and Surges seem to fill the same roll and could probably be rolled into a single resource (if not, Focus needs to specify when you get it back). The concentration requirement for certain conjurations can be explained as just concentration. Augmentations look good, a little metamagic for your Conjurations is nice. Overall, damaging Conjurations could probably use some built-in scaling, or Augmentations should allow extra expenditure for greater effect (more Surges on the Damaging Augmentation for additional extra dice, for example). An Abundance of Kindling (Pyrokineticist) is too weak for the amount of drawback it has. Buoyed By the Wind has a cool reaction usage.
TLDR: All of the bits that make a class a class are in place, but the conjurations could use another name and some built-in scaling, and I don't think Focus and Surges need to be separate resources.

Mourne
2018-09-21, 08:57 AM
Earthbinder: Overall, I like the flavor of this class but too many of its resources are either random or dependent on character wealth instead of character level or both.

I wasn’t particularly vested in this class (and struggled with the theme) so made the design decision to try a different mechanic – character wealth as power for the features. It’s definitely odd but I’ll ride it out.

I could stabilize the random part but will leave it. Glyptic runes are not intended to be the core class power and, on average, the randomness of Mineral Harvest will put the Earthbinder somewhat in line with other ½ casters (in regards to spells/level).

One note though. I did try to put in wealth consuming features as, in theory, a character could generate near infinite wealth (albeit mainly in 10gp gems) via Mineral Harvest.



Stone Caller seems like it should call for a spell attack roll.

It’s based on/supposed to be Magic Missile. It should definitely specify an action (how did I miss that? /sigh).

I did not intend to cap uses which may seem OP (unlimited uses of essentially a 1st level spell) but it’s the main damage generator and has to conflict with Glyptic Runes in regards to actions – or at least that was the intent.


Mineral Harvest doesn't specify how often or what type of action it takes to use it.

Another oversight. Will fix. I was sure that verbiage was there... must have got "edited" out between version.


Glyptic Runes requiring empowered gemstones means this class functionally has a random number of spells each day (since mineral harvest rolls to determine how many gems are produced).

Yep. As intended.


Prismatic Steps is a neat inversion of shadow step.

Thanks.


Strength of Stone's prevent dying feature should have a loophole or cooldown.

At first this seemed fairly innocuous to me….I hadn’t thought about any “shenanigans” that could be done. Now that you’ve pointed this out, I can see potential for abuse. Will change.


Petrifying Touch is gained at 7th level but mimics a spell unavailable to casters lower than 11th level.

This was a feature moved from the core class at the last minute. This level was intended to be a movement or utility related feature (something like earth glide or meld with stone) but I couldn’t get the feature to work right.

I’ll find some source of inspiration for the movement/travel feature and ditch Petrifying Touch.



Strength of Iron's shield limb probably doesn't need the caveat about two-handed attacks as it already drains the action economy.

I guess I don’t understand this comment. The intent was to not allow someone to wield a 2H weapon and still gain the benefits of the shield to their AC. Maybe the wording is unclear.

Thanks for the comments. I had already intended to do some tweaking (even though I was supposed to be finished) so will fix the broken and adjust as needed. One question I do have… feature bloat has been an issue (for me) for a while now – do you think this class suffers quite a bit from this? I ask because I’m thinking of striking the Awakened Stone and Empower Gem features to allow dead levels where the power is actually the bump in tier of the glyptic rune.

BlueHairedKat
2018-09-21, 12:54 PM
Kineticist: Typically if a class has an armor proficiency its starting gear includes that armor (leather, scale mail, or chain mail, depending). Do conjurations have effective spell levels for interaction with Dispel Magic and Counterspell? Conjuration as a term clashes with the spellcasting school. Focus and Surges seem to fill the same roll and could probably be rolled into a single resource (if not, Focus needs to specify when you get it back). The concentration requirement for certain conjurations can be explained as just concentration. Augmentations look good, a little metamagic for your Conjurations is nice. Overall, damaging Conjurations could probably use some built-in scaling, or Augmentations should allow extra expenditure for greater effect (more Surges on the Damaging Augmentation for additional extra dice, for example). An Abundance of Kindling (Pyrokineticist) is too weak for the amount of drawback it has. Buoyed By the Wind has a cool reaction usage.
TLDR: All of the bits that make a class a class are in place, but the conjurations could use another name and some built-in scaling, and I don't think Focus and Surges need to be separate resources.

Thank you very much for the feedback! I've added in some of the simpler changes (renaming conjurations, leather armour, etc). The point of Focus was to allow for eventual concentration on several manifestations at once; I may try to rework it into a class feature of 'you can concentrate on X manifestations' post-competition.

Mourne
2018-09-22, 01:29 AM
Final, final version of Earthbinder is up. It is what it is... I refuse to touch it anymore. :smallwink:

Requilac
2018-09-22, 07:28 AM
2) The scaling isn't the odd thing to me, the frequency (number of uses per day) felt odd to me. Proficiency bonus times per long rest and Charisma or level (whichever is lower) times per long rest are both unique to this class. The 5e norm would be either based on a Stat (Cha bonus per long rest) or static based on levels in the class (2, with an additional use at 5, 9, 13, and 17; a number of times equal to half your Firestorm Avatar levels). There's nothing inherently broken about your numbers they just are outside the mould.

The frequency is not number of uses per day on any of the features, they all specify recharging after a long rest. I am sure you are mistaken in that regard. With that being said, I don’t think that these numbers are broken at all and will keep them the way they are. Thank you for pointing out there uniqueness.


2)
4) Causing Light Obscuring, Difficult Terrain, or disadvantage on ranged attacks are all powerful enough to justify limited use in my opinion, especially considering that the class can fly and therefor ignores the difficult terrain part and often must be targeted at range. The feature also implies but does not specify that it can only be used outside (if it is intended to be outside-only it is weakened somewhat but still useful in a lot of cases).

I forgot about the whole flying thing, that changes things a lot. I will make it only usable once per short or long rest.

pygmybatrider
2018-09-22, 11:30 PM
More feedback. I am sitting down for an hour or two now to get through the rest, so I will edit this as I go with more.


Interesting theme, I think the link to nature and the parallel/contrast with Druidism is cool flavour.

Elemental Body is free extra damage forever starting at level 1. My initial response was that this should probably be a reaction, but then I read on to the Retributions. I am not sure that you need to double up on the defensive aspect of this class when you already have such a strong defensive ability in Retributions, and a strong baseline offensive one in Sculpt Destruction. Honestly the class would probably work fine without this feature at all.

Sculpt Destruction is a nice idea for a main class feature and I think it works well in principle. IMO there are too many options for AoE forms, and the saves don't line up with the damage types. Fire and Lightning should probably both be Dex, while Thunder should probably be Con, simply to align with most of the damaging spells of those elements in the PHB. I would suggest tying each element to an AoE form, i.e. line for lightning, cone for fire, and a square for thunder. I agree that should probably scale off Cha mod rather than proficiency, for consistency's sake.

Control Elements is a lot of options - you could probably get away with giving them the choice of 1 or 2 relevant cantrips, as there are already a lot that do the effects you've chosen here.

Retribution also has a lot of options. I think that is an issue with the class overall - a lot of your at-will damage options can be tailored to the vulnerabilities/resistance of the encounter, at no cost. Perhaps they could choose an option here, and additional ones later. I think the whole class might be stronger thematically if you chose your element at level 1, and all of the features you picked up along the way were tied to that element. Having said that, using your reaction to cause damage a limited number of times is a perfectly fine class feature. I am not sure why you need to restrict the uses by level in addition to Cha however.

Primoridal Tongue is a nice ribbon.

Portentious Awareness is also a cool idea. It could potentially cause problems for DMs who haven't planned in advance and drop an earthquake or something in an area the Firestorm Avatar PC had been in the last 3 months - "Why didn't I sense that?" but this is a niche case.

Extra ASI - I am not sure the class needs this as it has a lot of strong features that will either key off their Charisma or their melee attack stat of choice. What was your reasoning behind giving them the extra ASI?

Imbued Weapon is a good, flavourful substitute for Extra Attack, but again being able to choose the element turn-to-turn seems strong. The level 11 upgrade is a nice way to boost power. Well done.

Stormborn is early for a class to gain at-will flight. Especially a class with heavy armour and shield proficiency who can fly above everybody and blast them with AoEs in a variety of shapes, whose element they can choose to match whoever they're fighting. I think this could probably be a flying speed equal to your walking speed, for a short time (1 min), a limited number of times (even only 1) per short rest, and it would still be a strong level 7 feature f.

Weaponised Weather has been spoken about already and I pretty much agree. This class can do so much - good damage, good avoidance, good battlefield control, spellcasting off Charisma for good face skills. It might be an idea to ask yourself: what are the weaknesses of the Firestorm Avatar - mechanically and thematically?

One with the Flames is a cool effect, that is situationally useful, and really flavourful. Nice work.

Spiritual Warlord could be an extra 20+ damage per round for everybody forever. I would recommend changing this to one ally per round, maybe up the damage to something like 2d8+cha. Interesting if a little jarring from a design perspective since the class has pretty much no party buffs until this at level 20.

Branch of Depths - auto-escape from grapples is strong, maybe give advantage? Although the bonus action is still a cost, so that might be fine anyway. Their Sculpt Destruction feature seems weak compared to the others - maybe add a movement speed reduction on a failed save or something?

Branch of Life - Nature's Ward is a nice well done. Controlled Destruction is a great capstone. I think this is my favourite subclass.

Branch of Stone - Earth Walk feels strong, straight up ignoring difficult terrain from level 3, especially since you can make it yourself later on. Maybe activated as a bonus action? Actually I just read that it says nonmagical. This is probably fine, and thematic. Stone Skin is a nice ability. Seems like you warmed up to the subclasses as you went through them. Earthshattering Destruction is an enormous radius and should probably be limited to enemies who took damage from your Sculpt Destruction.

Overall I think there are some interesting mechanics in here, and the idea of working off Sculpt Destruction is a novel one that is pretty well done overall. I think the main issues are the huge versatility of damage types and riders that allow you to basically choose the weakest save/damage type of an enemy and pin them down with strong effects. The extra ASI is also really unusual. If you compare this class to something like the Ranger, their base features are already much more useful in and out of combat, and I just don't think they need it. If you are worried about dead levels, the class could probably use a couple more ribbon abilities in general.




Another halfcaster, nice. Skill and proficiencies all look good, the only worry at a glance is that other halfcasters get no features at 17th level as that's when they can take 5th level spells.

Planar Attunement is a nice ribbon that sets the tone for the class.

Protective Ward is a nice feature that gives the class something to do with their reaction. DR seems appropriate, maybe verging on weak at higher levels, but I'm guessing this ability gets buffed as you level up.


Echoing Strike comes a bit early as a power boost. If this is supposed to be a parallel to Divine Smite, it should maybe be in at level 2, and either expend a resource or have a limited number of uses. If not, it could probably come in at level 5 in place of Extra Attack, or be buffed up and moved to level 11, as a comparison to Improved Divine Smite. I do like that it works on ranged attacks and understand it's hard to balance ranged and melee at the same time.

Planar Resistance is a very cool ability. I love the resource cost, and the scaling with spell levels. I think this is great.


Improved Protective Ward - ahh, here comes the buff. The wording is a little unclear. I'm not sure what the later benefits of having the Ward are, but I think it would be nice if they extended to the ally. Otherwise it's a much harder decision to make to share the Ward around.

Planar Jaunt is fine and thematic.

Level 11 Feature - is missing? Most classes get a significant damage boost at the start of Tier 3. IMO, an edited version of Echoing Strike would do fine here.

Perfected Ward is a nice boost to one of your main class features but probably too many THP. Half your level, or prof + spellcasting, seems better to me.

Planar Body is a nice feature. Never needing to breathe might turn it from a ribbon into a rock, but that seems situational.

Planar Bond will be very welcome after 18 levels.


Immolating Lava Devotion - as a side note, I feel like these devotions could probably be named after specific elemental planes. Burning Ward - now I start to see some of those extra effects. I like the fire damage with the prone effect that usually comes from earth-based moves. This subclass, including the spell list, is thematically strong. Fiery Jaunt - I'm not sure you need the offensive and defensive boosts of this feature, but if you do, I would probably change the auto-damage on a hit to using your reaction. Avatar of Lava is a nice capstone, but could probably do without the auto-Enlarge, as there will be times where it is more of a drawback than a benefit.

Storm Devotion - I like the benefits of their Storm Ward. This could easily be passed to an ally with your Improved feature, and your allies would love it. Flash Step reinforces the mobility theme of this subclass. Getting very fast very quick. Thunderous Jaunt - I like that the subclasses boost the main class features. This one seems very strong, as stunned is a superb condition to inflict on baddies, and 4d8 is nothing to sneeze at even at this level. Avatar of the Storm seems fine until the Lightning Bolt feature - half mod means a maximum twice. Maybe just add a couple extra die of lightning damage to each of your attacks while transformed? Roll an additional die when determining lightning damage? Can cast Lightning Bolt as a bonus action? I get where you're going, but I think it could probably be done more simply.

Devouring Winter Devotion - Freezing Ward- I have to keep reminding myself you can only use these abilities twice a day, as the buffs are strong. I think this is probably fine and definitely fits with the cold theme. 7th level feature seems fluffy but has such a strong drawback you'd only ever use it when you need to, and is still DM dependent. Capstone seems fine.

Beguiling Summer - enchantment focus? I like the look of this. I think the Ward ability is nice. Making the Wisdom save a Constitution one to avoid being blinded makes me feel better. Warmth of Summer could probably just be used to end an effect on an ally and still be a fine ability. Radiant Jaunt is very strong if you can still attack while invisible, but I guess it won't last long. Fits the theme. This subclass is definitely my favourite. You forgot to change the name of the Capstone.

Overall I think you've done a great job with this. My main issues are sort of the same issue - the lack of a level 11 boosting feature, Echoing Strikes at level 3, and Improved Echoing Strikes at 17. If you buff Echoing Strikes up a bit to be a good level 11 feature, I think it solves all those issues. Issue.



I'm gonna have a break now and come back to the Alchemist and Kineticist, as I've had a read through of both classes but still need to wrap my head around the mechanics a bit more before I comment on them!


Straight away I am a bit scared by 3 unique resources to the class. I apologise in advance for how many times I will mention that I am confused or don't understand.

Manifestations: Surges, Manifestations, and Conjurations?

Focus: AND focus? At this stage (very early casual glance) this could all probably be folded into base 5e spellcasting.

Augmentations: In the first 2 levels we have five new terms to the game. I have nothing to say yet about balance or flavour but it does seem like a steep learning curve for any DM or player to pick up and run with.

Signature Conjuration seems cool, freeing up an action for something else. This sort of feels like it would make a good level 5 feature to compete with Extra Attack.

Instinctive Augmentations: still haven't seen what you can do with Surges, but giving 1 for free every turn when you only have 5 total seems a bit much. You could just add extra Surges to the pool as you level. I guess this is supposed to scale with a Fighter's Extra Attacks.

Elemental Reshaping: I have read this a couple times and still don't really understand what it means.

Used to it:I understand this! And I think it is fine power-wise and thematic. Good stuff.

Burn Focus - seems to be some interplay between class resources, like a sorcerer. Can't comment on power level but I like it in principle.

Pyrokineticist: the subclasses seem to be much easier to follow. I like all of these features - I guess that if you go this route you take fire resistance to avoid nuking yourself to pieces with the level 18 feature.

Geokineticist is a nice take on a martial. d6 hit die is going to hurt though. Maybe +1 hp per level? I love Dust Cloud - great ability, mechanically and thematically.

Aerokineticist - all these abilities seem fine power-wise and a good fit. Probably my favourite subclass.

Reading through the list of Manifestations, the idea is starting to grow on me. I think most of the effects are fine, but it is a lot of book-keeping. Most of the Augmentations seem fine until we start getting into metamagic levels.

Clearly a whole lot of thought and care has gone into this, and I do think the end result is pretty good, but I can't shake the feeling that the concept could still be made with 5e's base casting system and work just as well - maybe even as a sorcerer subclass with a focus on Elemental spells and metamagic.






Always loved the idea of an alchemist in 5e. Let's take a look.

Alchemy, Formula Book, etc: so it's like preparing spells, but with physical objects you can interact with? Cool.

Minor Alchemy is a nice level 1 feature.

Catalyst - a once-per-rest boost to an alchemical product. Seems good to me, though you do get a lot more uses as you level up. Will come back to the effects later.

Codebreaker is a thematic feature. Would it work for an alchemist/wizard multiclass to steal spells from another wizard's book?

Journeyman/Expert/Master Formulae seems to follow the usual power curve.

Toxin Immunity seems fine, will be very useful in some situations, and almost useless in others.

Catalytic Mastery sounds okay as long as it still consumes both catalysts.

Instant Alchemy looks strong, but for a once-per-rest capstone, it should be.

House of Pharmacology - healer subclass. Most of this looks good, although I would probably cut Alchemical Fortitude and move one of the level 7 features there instead. Probably Take Your Medicine, and give it uses equal to Int mod per long rest. Fortitude doesn't really seem to fit with the theme to me, and is probably made redundant - or at least much less useful - by the level 18 feature.

House of Transfiguration - martial subclass. I almost forgot that this subclass was about Transfiguration until the 18th level feature. I think this is fine power-wise, and I love the idea of holding a magic silver sword in one hand and a bomb in the other.

House of Astrology - ahh, I see where this is going! I really like the diversity amongst subclasses, making it almost feel like 3 different classes to play. Well done. You still say cleric spells in the spellcasting section. Birthsign is a really interesting mechanic that I would love to use as both a player and a DM - very clever. The Horoscope feature seems weak in contrast to the other subclasses' features. I like the use of spell slots as a resource. The drawback to the capstone seems to be in line with its power.

Alchemical Formulae - thankyou for including the "Reading the Entries" section!

A cursory glance over the formulae (I will admit I didn't read them all) seems mostly fine. I like the scaling effects, and think you have stayed mostly within expected power levels. I think that catalysts could probably be simplified somehow - there is a hell of a lot of bookkeeping involved at the moment, though that was always to be expected with a class like this. Something simple like "this stone doubles duration" "this one adds an additional die of damage" "this one doubles the range" "this one lets you target an additional target" etc.

Overall I think this is a well-done version of a long-time favourite. The base class offers everything it needs to and nothing more, leaving most of the power boosts to the subclasses, and letting them feel strong and unique. Some of the formulae may be easier choices than others, but you have clearly spent a lot of time considering their various uses and power. I would probably let one of my players run this class as-is, and make any needed adjustments on the fly.


One more to go! Will post up a review of the Earthbinder shortly.


Would love a bit of fluff at the start, just to get me in the mindset! Let's take a look at mechanics.

Stone Caller is a nice idea for a cantrip/class feature - like a single-shot Magic Missile. Might not get used often, but when you need it, you'll be happy to have it. I like it.

Earthen Murmurs is a fluffy feature and the bonus to passive perception will come in handy in dungeons. Stacking with Observant could be an obscene boost underground, but at the cost of a feat. No dramas here.

Master Jeweller could probably come at 3rd level, alongside the Allegiance feature.

Mineral Harvest and Glyptic Runes spellcasting tied to gemstones tied to wealth. Interesting idea.

Runes Known confuses me as you start by saying simple and minor and end with saying 1st or 2nd level.

Awakened Stone is an interesting way to boost your power at 5th and 11th. I had to scroll up and down for a while before I found the table. The amount of options is a little overwhelming, although I do like that they are defensively focussed rather than offensive. It's a cool design feature, but might lead to characters feeling a little weak at the table.

Empower Stone is a good ability for this class, obviously reliant on finding non-magical gemstones. Can you do this to your own previous empowered stones who lose their empowerment after a rest ?

Legendary Jeweller is a cool ability but feels like it should come much later.

Tellurian Ally would usually take a 4th and 5th level spell slot to achieve. Probably fine as a level 17 feature. Obviously very thematic.

Earthbreaker could probably be once per rest, and I'm not sure the double damage to structures is necessary. 8th level spells are nasty.

Glyptic Runes seem okay, basically spell slots/levels by gp.

Crystal Court 7th level ability should probably be limited to once per short rest or Cha times per long rest (edit: ignore this! I forgot about shadow monks). Dazzling Form calls out ray attacks, which don't exist in 5e. Crystalline Form probably shouldn't change your type but otherwise seems fine.

Granite Court - I should point out that I like how all the subclasses buff the Stone Caller feature. Stoneskin feels strong - maybe make it nonmagical b/p/s, or need to activate it. Capstone is same as above.

Iron Court - Ferrous Armament can mean some serious AC for a caster. Extra Attack at 15 seems weird. I am sure there are some synergies with other features I am missing here. Capstone as above.

Overall, a unique spellcasting mechanic, a bit of extra bookkeeping, a lot of extra gold. I am probably not seeing a lot of the connections between class and subclass features, but I think that this is a decent base, and I do enjoy the flavour.

Mourne
2018-09-23, 01:29 AM
/sigh

Fixed versioning issues with Earthbinder. Not completely used to creating a new version in GMBinder every time I make an edit... apologies to anyone that read the previous version expecting to see edits/changes.

pygmybatrider
2018-09-23, 02:51 AM
/sigh

Fixed versioning issues with Earthbinder. Not completely used to creating a new version in GMBinder every time I make an edit... apologies to anyone that read the previous version expecting to see edits/changes.

Hahaha - it might be my lack of tech-savviness but I had the same problem with homebrewery. I have no idea how to edit a document you've made, or even if it's possible. If my browser ever shut down I had to copy the source, make a new one, and update the link wherever it's posted. More fun than a poke in the eye!

PhoenixPhyre
2018-09-23, 09:52 AM
Pygmybatrider, thanks for the feedback. I've strengthened echoing strike and moved it to 11th, removing the 17th level feature. A few other features got tweaked, including the storm capstone (which now lets you can chain lighting once without a slot).

Mourne
2018-09-23, 10:08 AM
Earthbinder - Would love a bit of fluff at the start, just to get me in the mindset! Let's take a look at mechanics.

I agree. Sadly, fluff writing is a completely arduous process for me so I tend to avoid it unless/until I'm sure a class that I make is going to stick around. I know -- really a case of putting the cart before the horse. On the bright side, I try to include a little fluff in the features to give the reader somewhat of an idea what I'm going for.


Stone Caller is a nice idea for a cantrip/class feature - like a single-shot Magic Missile. Might not get used often, but when you need it, you'll be happy to have it. I like it.

It's exactly magic missile re-skinned.... well, with lessened damage as I was worried that unlimited use of essentially a 1st level spell might be a tad too much. It does scale in number of uses, so it can provide somewhat of a reliable damage source.


Earthen Murmurs is a fluffy feature and the bonus to passive perception will come in handy in dungeons. Stacking with Observant could be an obscene boost underground, but at the cost of a feat. No dramas here.

I hadn't thought about interaction with Observant. I really try to tell myself that "Hey! feats are optional" as I ignore there interactions when I homebrew.


Master Jeweller could probably come at 3rd level, alongside the Allegiance feature.

I think it could be placed anywhere in the first 5 levels (2nd level had room in my mind). It's really a ribbon feature that likely won't have too much play... well, other than shenanigans during downtimes.


Mineral Harvest and Glyptic Runes spellcasting tied to gemstones tied to wealth. Interesting idea.

Lately, I've been trying to come up with different mechanics/uses of existing mechanics to try -- what better place than a contest to roll out these odd thoughts? I mean, if we don't push some boundaries or show something unique, then it could likely be a subclass/archetype? The gem-wealth tie in is kind of wonky and probably has a lot of issues that are unforeseen in regards to impact to overall wealth but it's certainly different.


Runes Known confuses me as you start by saying simple and minor and end with saying 1st or 2nd level.

Ah. Yeah. That's a relic of moving from level based tiers to this non-level based. My real impetus behind this was to allow for the current spells to be placed according to their perceived power -- allow for a mini re-balance of the spell levels. I didn't really make use of this, but the thought was that if someone felt, "Hey. Fireball should be a 1st level spell", then that could be put in with the minor runes. I'll fix the incorrect referencing, thanks.


Awakened Stone is an interesting way to boost your power at 5th and 11th. I had to scroll up and down for a while before I found the table. The amount of options is a little overwhelming, although I do like that they are defensively focussed rather than offensive. It's a cool design feature, but might lead to characters feeling a little weak at the table.

The stones are probably overkill... a little too much bloat. I'd honestly considered striking them entirely and moving the remaining features around.


Empower Stone is a good ability for this class, obviously reliant on finding non-magical gemstones. Can you do this to your own previous empowered stones who lose their empowerment after a rest ?

Yes, it's meant to work with any gemstone including those that were once empowered.


Legendary Jeweller is a cool ability but feels like it should come much later.

It could but the available items (while providing some versatility) are not really too OP -- limited mainly to common and uncommon items; things which most PCs should have ready access to by the level the feature is given.


Tellurian Ally would usually take a 4th and 5th level spell slot to achieve. Probably fine as a level 17 feature. Obviously very thematic.

I actually wanted to make it 3 tiered and grant a more limited version at lower levels but was already burdened by too many features. Also, multiple pets at low level are not always a DMs friend.


Earthbreaker could probably be once per rest, and I'm not sure the double damage to structures is necessary. 8th level spells are nasty.

Yes, it should be. It should not more access to an 8th level spell than a comparatively leveled wizard would have. Thanks.


Glyptic Runes seem okay, basically spell slots/levels by gp.

Yes, basically. As noted, it does allow for granting spells (according to level) earlier or later as the runes are not meant to equate to spell level.


Crystal Court 7th level ability should probably be limited to once per short rest or Cha times per long rest (edit: ignore this! I forgot about shadow monks). Dazzling Form calls out ray attacks, which don't exist in 5e. Crystalline Form probably shouldn't change your type but otherwise seems fine.

Hmm. I guess I hadn't thought this through. I didn't quite mean rays as a literal category, more as a subjective interpretation of the spell effect. Definitely need to rework this.

In regards to the type change, all the Courts do this at the end. Why do you feel this shouldn't happen? It's intended as a power boost as it would remove you from being targeted by certain spells (such as charm person, for an easy example) or did I answer my own question?


Granite Court - I should point out that I like how all the subclasses buff the Stone Caller feature. Stoneskin feels strong - maybe make it nonmagical b/p/s, or need to activate it. Capstone is same as above.

Check. It should have been that as it was supposed to be an exact copy of the same named spell.


Iron Court - Ferrous Armament can mean some serious AC for a caster. Extra Attack at 15 seems weird. I am sure there are some synergies with other features I am missing here. Capstone as above.

The Iron Court was intended to be the melee niche... I wonder if I put a negative rider on Ferrous Armament that reinforces this. Extra attack at that level is odd but I didn't want to progress the Iron Court as a typical non-FIG melee. It might be more appropriate to allow an extra attack as a bonus action after casting a Simple or Minor rune (ala EK)?


Overall, a unique spellcasting mechanic, a bit of extra bookkeeping, a lot of extra gold. I am probably not seeing a lot of the connections between class and subclass features, but I think that this is a decent base, and I do enjoy the flavour.

Thanks for the review, I truly appreciate it! I'll fix the issues you found and work on a couple of the items that were concerning.

MoleMage
2018-09-23, 01:25 PM
More feedback. I am sitting down for an hour or two now to get through the rest, so I will edit this as I go with more.

Always loved the idea of an alchemist in 5e. Let's take a look.

Alchemy, Formula Book, etc: so it's like preparing spells, but with physical objects you can interact with? Cool.

Minor Alchemy is a nice level 1 feature.

Catalyst - a once-per-rest boost to an alchemical product. Seems good to me, though you do get a lot more uses as you level up. Will come back to the effects later.

Codebreaker is a thematic feature. Would it work for an alchemist/wizard multiclass to steal spells from another wizard's book?


Essentially alchemy works like 3.5e spell preparation (consumed after use) rather than 5e's "this is your spells known today" preparation, yeah. Minor Alchemy is meant to be like Prestidigitation and other "flavor" cantrips but alchemical, so I'm glad that worked out. Catalysts act as a long-rest resource that allows you to boost formulae to higher power levels. My design goal was that formulae are more than cantrips, but less than spellcasting (because of how many you can get), while Catalysts would allow them to become more equivalent to spellcasting for a single use. I gave them a lot at higher levels because by that point spellcasters get a lot of spell slots. As for Codebreaker, it would let you steal other wizards' spells better assuming they are written in cipher.



Journeyman/Expert/Master Formulae seems to follow the usual power curve.

Toxin Immunity seems fine, will be very useful in some situations, and almost useless in others.

Catalytic Mastery sounds okay as long as it still consumes both catalysts.

Instant Alchemy looks strong, but for a once-per-rest capstone, it should be.


The bulk of the new features are tied up in formulae and houses, so the chassis mostly gets progression. Toxin Immunity seemed inevitable for a chemistry class.



House of Pharmacology - healer subclass. Most of this looks good, although I would probably cut Alchemical Fortitude and move one of the level 7 features there instead. Probably Take Your Medicine, and give it uses equal to Int mod per long rest. Fortitude doesn't really seem to fit with the theme to me, and is probably made redundant - or at least much less useful - by the level 18 feature.

House of Transfiguration - martial subclass. I almost forgot that this subclass was about Transfiguration until the 18th level feature. I think this is fine power-wise, and I love the idea of holding a magic silver sword in one hand and a bomb in the other.

House of Astrology - ahh, I see where this is going! I really like the diversity amongst subclasses, making it almost feel like 3 different classes to play. Well done. You still say cleric spells in the spellcasting section. Birthsign is a really interesting mechanic that I would love to use as both a player and a DM - very clever. The Horoscope feature seems weak in contrast to the other subclasses' features. I like the use of spell slots as a resource. The drawback to the capstone seems to be in line with its power.


I see what you mean, plus a lot of elixirs already include catalysts that pretty much make Fortitude obsolete. I'll swap Take Your Medicine to 13th level as suggested.
It was hard to make Transfiguration abilities that both matched its role as the bomb-using (combat) subclass and incorporated its lore as a transmuter. I settled for mixing some of the former with some of the latter instead.
House of Astrology gets weaker specific features (like Horoscope) because of the comparative power of getting real spells (though Transmutation and Divination are not the strongest schools) and especially because of Star-Bound Alchemy being IMO far-and-away the best level 13 subclass feature. I'd have to try it in play to see if it's too little but my gut said to limit Astrology's features.



Alchemical Formulae - thankyou for including the "Reading the Entries" section!

A cursory glance over the formulae (I will admit I didn't read them all) seems mostly fine. I like the scaling effects, and think you have stayed mostly within expected power levels. I think that catalysts could probably be simplified somehow - there is a hell of a lot of bookkeeping involved at the moment, though that was always to be expected with a class like this. Something simple like "this stone doubles duration" "this one adds an additional die of damage" "this one doubles the range" "this one lets you target an additional target" etc.

Overall I think this is a well-done version of a long-time favourite. The base class offers everything it needs to and nothing more, leaving most of the power boosts to the subclasses, and letting them feel strong and unique. Some of the formulae may be easier choices than others, but you have clearly spent a lot of time considering their various uses and power. I would probably let one of my players run this class as-is, and make any needed adjustments on the fly.


Essentially I set out to make Alchemy a new sub-system of magic rather than a class mechanic. The alchemist just happens to use it. I think a few of my formulae still say "Intelligence bonus" when they should say "alchemical ability bonus" but my hope was to allow other classes (or subclasses) to use alchemy as well (so you could make a Witch Doctor druid subclass that gets 1/3rd alchemical progression for example), so I mimicked the Spells and Spellcasting intro chapter as much as I could.
Catalysts are perhaps more complicated than they need to be, but I wanted a form of formula modification that was unique per formula. I did have an opportunity to play this class (at level 10) in a one-shot with my group, and found the bookkeeping to be not notably worse than playing a spellcaster (you just need to keep your formulae descriptions handy, not unlike keeping a bookmark in the spell descriptions section of the PHB when playing a wizard, and know what formulae and catalysts you have on hand, not unlike keeping track of spells prepared). After the contest I will take a second look to see if I can't simplify catalysts, but that would be a huge overhaul.
I'm glad that overall you liked it and appreciate the play-by-play feedback!

Mourne
2018-09-23, 01:30 PM
Shaman thoughts (quid pro quo for the in-depth Earthbinder review).

This is *very* polished. Great, great job! I’m not sure this level of balance and goodness should be allowed to compete… ; )

Comments solely directed against the core class. I did look at all the specializations and didn't have really any comments there other than the offensive combo of the base class combined with the healing specialization might outshine the cleric.

This is built on the paladin chassis?

Totems
Only a minor quibble here… I'd change the wording on the progressions to something similar to the bard’s Bardic Inspiration feature (“Your Bardic Inspiration die changes when you reach certain levels in this class.”). Just for clarity so players don’t think they can dip/multi-class 1 level and gain the progression bumps with their main class (similar to cantrips)… unless that is something you intend.

Can a totem be placed underground (within 15’ of you)? Do totems have any resistances? It would make sense that they’d at last be resistant to their own elemental damage type.

Maybe a lower limit on the walking speed for Earthbind Totem (5’) so it can’t reduce speed to 0 or below – you know, in those very very rare cases where this would apply.

Other than that… this is great.

Lesser Lightning Bolt
Same progression wording comment as for Totems. Consider this a blanket comment throughout so I don't become repeatative.

Spellcasting
“Casting the spell doesn't remove it from your list of prepared spells. You can change your list of prepared spells when you finish a long rest. Preparing a new list of shaman spells requires time spent in meditation and communication with the spirits: at least 1 minute per spell level for each spell on your list.”

The above paragraph is cut off the page – and I’m even using Chrome.

Shock Spells
Paladin smite riff. To be clear, on Flame Shock… does the 1d4 burning effect per turn escalate or is it static?

Elemental Attunement
Standard ribbon. Fits the theme.

Elemental Fury
I like when class features are made modular and allow for a player to set their own path within the framework of the class.

Far Sight
Another ribbon-esque feature. Sadly, probably won’t see much use beyond the dim light rider. Good job on wording it to match your theme.

Greater Totems
Frost damage should be cold damage for resistance (to match the parlance of 5E). I understand your meaning though and actually prefer the name frost over cold.

I don’t completely understand why air and earth didn’t match the first two and just grant resistance to thunder/lightning and acid respectively. In my mind, the bonus to checks and saves overshadows the resistance.

Elemental Command
A nice, thematic ribbon.

Totemic Mastery
Very cool features! I’d rather see the Grounding Totem pull down flying creatures (a literal no-fly zone) rather than the current effect… strictly my opinion of course. It does seem you’ve already established Air as a more defensive/spellcaster nuisance though so that might not fit with your internal logic.

Primordial Fortitude
The capstone ribbon. ; )

pygmybatrider
2018-09-23, 03:08 PM
Pygmybatrider, thanks for the feedback. I've strengthened echoing strike and moved it to 11th, removing the 17th level feature. A few other features got tweaked, including the storm capstone (which now lets you can chain lighting once without a slot).

Nice work. I think Echoing Strikes works well now as-written. Does its damage also double on a crit? ie. Attack once with a greataxe, crit. 2d12+str damage. Use Echoing Strikes, 2d12+Str. Extra Attack - another crit (advantage, Hold Person, etc) - 2d12 + Str! I'm not sure that it would be overpowered if it does, as it essentially works like a Fighter's 3rd Attack and the Planar Warrior doesn't have an at-will resource-expending damage option like Smites, but it's something to think about.

Chain Lightning could probably be upcast as a capstone. Maybe even 8th level to hit an even 5 baddies for 10d8.

Mourne: I'm having fun with the formatting here. My responses to your response to my response are in bold in the spoiler!




I agree. Sadly, fluff writing is a completely arduous process for me so I tend to avoid it unless/until I'm sure a class that I make is going to stick around. I know -- really a case of putting the cart before the horse. On the bright side, I try to include a little fluff in the features to give the reader somewhat of an idea what I'm going for.

I feel you! I was working from an established MMO class and still stole most my fluff directly from Blizzard's class descriptions. Still, I definitely felt that I had a handle on the Earthbinder by the end of it, as you did a good job of weaving the theme through the features.

It's exactly magic missile re-skinned.... well, with lessened damage as I was worried that unlimited use of essentially a 1st level spell might be a tad too much. It does scale in number of uses, so it can provide somewhat of a reliable damage source.

I love it. It's useful and not overpowered, and gives the subclasses something to improve/alter/make their own.

I think it could be placed anywhere in the first 5 levels (2nd level had room in my mind). It's really a ribbon feature that likely won't have too much play... well, other than shenanigans during downtimes.

Agreed - my thinking here was just that you get 3 features at level 1, and only 1 at level 3.

Lately, I've been trying to come up with different mechanics/uses of existing mechanics to try -- what better place than a contest to roll out these odd thoughts? I mean, if we don't push some boundaries or show something unique, then it could likely be a subclass/archetype? The gem-wealth tie in is kind of wonky and probably has a lot of issues that are unforeseen in regards to impact to overall wealth but it's certainly different.

You're right, and I like this style of thinking. It definitely lead to an interesting class here, and I think that it does/can/would work as a core mechanic without too much polishing (pun intended...)

In regards to the type change, all the Courts do this at the end. Why do you feel this shouldn't happen? It's intended as a power boost as it would remove you from being targeted by certain spells (such as charm person, for an easy example) or did I answer my own question?

Yeah, it was the always-on immunity to some effects that are usually able to be targeted at PCs that worried me. I can't think off the top of my head if there are other spells that target elementals that could balance this out (maybe Banishment?). If it was a one-a-day transformation, maybe with some extra boosts added, I wouldn't have a problem with it.


The Iron Court was intended to be the melee niche... I wonder if I put a negative rider on Ferrous Armament that reinforces this. Extra attack at that level is odd but I didn't want to progress the Iron Court as a typical non-FIG melee. It might be more appropriate to allow an extra attack as a bonus action after casting a Simple or Minor rune (ala EK)?

I am always a big fan of cast-and-slash in the same turn. The speed reduction I think is a good idea for a drawback, I was just worried about power level. UA Stone Sorcerers get 13+Con as an AC, admittedly earlier than level 7, and this is generally seen as a strong class feature. Although now that I think about it, given there is no downside to that, and they are essentially full casters with a d8 hit die, it's probably fine as is.

A re-read of Iron Mastery worried me for a minute with the extra damage die on top of Extra Attack until I realised this class is simple weapons only. I think that this is a really nice solution to keep their damage relevant without going down the same "you get medium armour and martial weapons proficiency when you pick this subclass" path. Well done.


Thanks for the review, I truly appreciate it! I'll fix the issues you found and work on a couple of the items that were concerning.

No problem. The more I think about this class, the more I like it both conceptually and mechanically. I think that's probably a good sign.




Shaman thoughts (quid pro quo for the in-depth Earthbinder review).

This is *very* polished. Great, great job! I’m not sure this level of balance and goodness should be allowed to compete… ; )

Comments solely directed against the core class. I did look at all the specializations and didn't have really any comments there other than the offensive combo of the base class combined with the healing specialization might outshine the cleric.

This is built on the paladin chassis?

Totems
Only a minor quibble here… I'd change the wording on the progressions to something similar to the bard’s Bardic Inspiration feature (“Your Bardic Inspiration die changes when you reach certain levels in this class.”). Just for clarity so players don’t think they can dip/multi-class 1 level and gain the progression bumps with their main class (similar to cantrips)… unless that is something you intend.

Can a totem be placed underground (within 15’ of you)? Do totems have any resistances? It would make sense that they’d at last be resistant to their own elemental damage type.

Maybe a lower limit on the walking speed for Earthbind Totem (5’) so it can’t reduce speed to 0 or below – you know, in those very very rare cases where this would apply.

Other than that… this is great.

Lesser Lightning Bolt
Same progression wording comment as for Totems. Consider this a blanket comment throughout so I don't become repeatative.

Spellcasting
“Casting the spell doesn't remove it from your list of prepared spells. You can change your list of prepared spells when you finish a long rest. Preparing a new list of shaman spells requires time spent in meditation and communication with the spirits: at least 1 minute per spell level for each spell on your list.”

The above paragraph is cut off the page – and I’m even using Chrome.

Shock Spells
Paladin smite riff. To be clear, on Flame Shock… does the 1d4 burning effect per turn escalate or is it static?

Elemental Attunement
Standard ribbon. Fits the theme.

Elemental Fury
I like when class features are made modular and allow for a player to set their own path within the framework of the class.

Far Sight
Another ribbon-esque feature. Sadly, probably won’t see much use beyond the dim light rider. Good job on wording it to match your theme.

Greater Totems
Frost damage should be cold damage for resistance (to match the parlance of 5E). I understand your meaning though and actually prefer the name frost over cold.

I don’t completely understand why air and earth didn’t match the first two and just grant resistance to thunder/lightning and acid respectively. In my mind, the bonus to checks and saves overshadows the resistance.

Elemental Command
A nice, thematic ribbon.

Totemic Mastery
Very cool features! I’d rather see the Grounding Totem pull down flying creatures (a literal no-fly zone) rather than the current effect… strictly my opinion of course. It does seem you’ve already established Air as a more defensive/spellcaster nuisance though so that might not fit with your internal logic.

Primordial Fortitude
The capstone ribbon. ; )


Thankyou for the comment about polish! A lot of hours have gone into this over the last couple weeks and I've had a lot of input from this forum, other places around the internet, and my players. I think with homebrew, writing the features so that a reader knows how they work at a glance is probably the first if not the biggest hurdle, so feedback like this makes me really happy.

Yeah, the class was very much built as a counterpart to the Paladin, much like the WoW class. I share the concern over Restoration being overtuned, but healing in 5e is generally so sub-optimal and the player I built this class for wants to play Resto, so I think I'd rather it be a little over than a little under. The fact that he will be the only support/healer means the group will be happy about it too, as there's nobody competing with him for "most healing per spell slot" or anything. I will probably tweak it as we go - I think the easiest solution is to make Healing Surge dice use an action so that you can't LLB + Surge in the same turn, but that goes against the original design intent of making healing interesting, and I'm more or less happy to see where it goes before I start chopping and changing.

From the playtesting we've done already, a Restoration Shaman feels more in line with a Celestial Warlock than a Life Cleric.

Eg @ Level 8, a Warlock will have 9 bonus-action healing dice, 2 4th-level slots to Cure Wounds from if needed, and at-will damage of 2d10+2*Cha.

A Resto Shaman will have 6 bonus-action healing dice, 4 1st and 3 2nd-level slots, and at-will damage of 2d8+Wis. I called Shocks and Hex a wash here. Shaman has more AC, and pulls away from level 11 with Water Shield benefits.

Life Clerics will always have a bunch more slots, more AC, and their 2+level bonus, for more consistent if more resource-intensive heals. A Life Cleric with 1 level or Magic Initiate in Druid is probably still the most efficient healer, if sort of boring. The Restoration shaman was designed to make playing a healer interesting, and give players more options than "I cast Cure Wounds while standing in the middle of baddies with plate, shield, and SG in tow."

I will definitely clear up the wording and formatting around totems etc, thanks for pointing that out. The damage rider of Flame Shock is intended to be static and unstackable. Earthbind will get a clause that says something like "this effect can not reduce a creature's speed to 0." Frost should replace cold damage everywhere it is found! Nobody's scared of the sniffles. I didn't make all the Greater Totems resistance-based for 2 reasons: a) to keep in line with totems I remembered from vanilla WoW, and b) to diversify options. If I made the level 7 totems all resistance, I think I would still want the check/save totems in somewhere, and this way the progression is simple by gaining 4 new ones at each milestone.

In general, I am still not 100% sure that totems should be instant, at-will, and unlimited, but I haven't been able to come up with a reasonable limit that scales well across your whole career. Most of them I think are fine, but if you look at something like Tremor Totem, it basically makes your party immune to those conditions as you can use a BA to drop it on your turn and snap one person out of it. I was also worried about Grounding Totem, as it's essentially a free Counterspell (though with a higher DC) forever. I do like that there are a few anti-caster options repeating throughout the class' design but your idea about dropping flyers might make more sense from a power perspective.

Thanks again for helping dot the i's and cross the t's at this stage, and thankyou to Requilac for making this thread and contest. It's been a really good opportunity and experience to give and receive feedback - and great timing, given I had just sat down with my player a day or two before I saw this thread to talk about coming up with a shaman character. Well done to everyone who submitted - I think there is something worthwhile/noteworthy in every class, and there are some real gems in here.

PhoenixPhyre
2018-09-23, 07:22 PM
Nice work. I think Echoing Strikes works well now as-written. Does its damage also double on a crit? ie. Attack once with a greataxe, crit. 2d12+str damage. Use Echoing Strikes, 2d12+Str. Extra Attack - another crit (advantage, Hold Person, etc) - 2d12 + Str! I'm not sure that it would be overpowered if it does, as it essentially works like a Fighter's 3rd Attack and the Planar Warrior doesn't have an at-will resource-expending damage option like Smites, but it's something to think about.

Chain Lightning could probably be upcast as a capstone. Maybe even 8th level to hit an even 5 baddies for 10d8.


My thought would be that whatever the initial damage was, it does it again. So critting the second time does nothing other than assuring a hit. So crit (2d12 + STR) + hit/crit (2d12 + STR). I would rule that a half-orc gets to lump those extra crit dice in. Technically you could dip Paladin 2 for Divine Smite and add it as well, but since it's not damage done by the attack itself (but a separate rider), it wouldn't get echoed. And delaying that till level 13 would suck.

That would work. I didn't remember what level it was (I was editing from my phone), so I just guestimated. Thought it was 7th level.

Now for a (short, due to time) review of your Shaman class:

Thematics: It definitely smells like a WoW Shaman. Definitely on theme--it's all about the elements.
Mechanics: It seems to have a lot of moving parts. Tracking totems (and sometimes numbers of uses of totem abilities), shocks, spell slots, far sight uses, sub-class uses (especially Resto with healing dice and water shield charges). Is it too much? Not sure. I prefer my classes less resource heavy, but others disagree.

Mechanical question (may just be wording): Does the "additionally" paragraph of Far Sight still require you to have it active? That is, is the no disadvantage from dim light thing always on or only while Far Sight is active? Neither would be broken, but I assume the latter is your intent.
Shaman Spells:
Ghost Wolf: I assume this does not cost movement? It's more like a physical teleport than a normal movement ability?
Lightning Shield: Seems weak, but I haven't tested it. It's 3d8 maximum, but it's automatic (rather than requiring a save), so I'm not sure.
Astral Recall: should consume its material component, and that component should have a cost. /old-school WoW player (this is a joke).
Bloodlust: 5th-level, multi-target haste, minus the AC, but with bigger movement speed buff and fewer action options. Different penalty at spell end. Those are big dice though. Makes it quite risky--you could easily get downed by a high roll on that. 3d6 is more bell-curve friendly and only slightly lower average (11 vs 12).

Good job. It has a clear identity and the sub-classes take it in different, yet complementary directions. It's the best "pulled from an MMO" homebrew I've seen yet. Plus pictures. I'm too lazy to go looking for pictures, and can't draw worth anything.

Requilac
2018-09-23, 11:23 PM
The competition's submission period has come to an end. No more edits may be made to content until voting has ended. Please follow this link (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?569854-D-amp-D-5e-Base-Class-Voting-Thread-III&p=23389033#post23389033) to the voting thread to determine our winners.

Requilac
2018-09-23, 11:30 PM
@ Pygmy Bat Rider

Thank you for your commentary! I would love to make changes, but it is illegal to do during the voting period, so I will have to wait until after voting has ended. Your insight will be very useful to me. I regret not having the time to review your class.

Requilac
2018-09-27, 04:00 AM
The voting period is almost half over and the Shaman created by Pygmybatrider with its 7 points is just marginally pushing ahead of the Earthbinder and Planar Warrior, both of which have 6 points. If you wish to tip these odds, I would advise you to vote while there is still time.

Vogie
2018-10-01, 11:49 AM
Argh... give a class more than 2 attacks, and most criticisms amount to "just a fighter, then?".

Ah, well. I'll know that for next time then, lol.

Requilac
2018-10-01, 09:04 PM
The voting period has ended, and all the votes have been tallied up. Here are the final results.

1st place: The Shaman by Pygmybatrider with 14 points
2nd place: The Planar Warrior by PhoenyxPhyre with 9 points
3rd place: The Earthbinder by Mourne with 7 points
4th place: The Fire Storm Avatar by Requilac with 6 points
5th place: The Alchemist by MoleMage with 5 points
6th place: The Geomancer by Vogie with 1 point
7th place: Tied by The Gaien by BerzerkerUnit with 0 points and The Kineticist by BlueHairedKat with 0 points.

Our winner is Pygmybatrider scoring 14 points with the shaman! You a notation in all the upcoming chat threads, bragging rights and inedible internet cookies. PhoenyxPhyre with the Planar Warrior came in second and Mourne with the Earthbinder came in third. Thank you for all who participated, this was a commendable effort indeed by all.

Later tonight I will be submitting our next competition, does not meet expectations. Give me some time to form the proper threads please.


Argh... give a class more than 2 attacks, and most criticisms amount to "just a fighter, then?".

Ah, well. I'll know that for next time then, lol.

I can't speak for others, but the reason I was unhappy with the Geomancer was more due to the passive nature of its features and not so much its similarity to the fighter. Either way, I wouldn't feel to beaten up about it, these competitions are hard.
_______________

Thank you to all who made comments on the Firestorm Avatar. I will be sure to look over those and make the changes as necessary now that I can. Your help has been invaluable in the refinement of that class which took me so long to build.

BlueHairedKat
2018-10-02, 11:20 AM
Huh, turns out a class you write in a single stretch with no forethought, while you have a fever, doesn't do that well. Oh well, there's always next time. (And I think there's an interesting class in the kineticist, I just need to bring it out...)