Created new Spell: Trap Card V2.0

[Bahamut7]

So as the title suggested I created a new Warlock spell. I made a thread a little bit ago about Glyph of Warding and allowing a Warlock to use it. Well, I decided why not try making a new spell that better suits that character's needs. The rub? I have never done this before, so I am looking for any tweaks to properly balance it out. Here is the spell:

Trap Card (Ritual)

Casting Time: 1 hour This was 10 minutes, but as pointed out longer seems more in line to my idea
Range: Touch
Components: V, S, M (Magic ink equivalent to spell level) cost equal to the spell level squared time fifty
Duration: Dispelled or Triggered

You create a Glyph, similar to the Glyph of Warding, but the Glyph can be moved any distance from the casting point. The Glyph can be invisible or visible, but if invisible, requires a successful investigation agaisnt your spell DC to be found.

You determine the trigger upon creation and must choose Explosive Runes or Spell Glyph.

Explosive Rune: You create a 20 ft blast radius set to the damage type of acid, cold, fire, force, lightning, or thunder dealing 3d8 damage. I added Force damage as it is similar to a condensed Eldritch Blast. I also lowered the damage as a Warlock could get a lot of mileage out of this and use it more often

Spell Glyph: The spell's effect is released upon trigger. I did this to eliminate the arguments about Rituals being usable or not

At higher Levels: Explosives runes increase by 1d8 for each spell level above 3rd. Spell Glyph is equal to whatever spell level you used.

What do you guys think? How should I tweak this further? Should I up the damage on the explosive rune back to Glyph of Wardings? How much Magical Ink used for spell scribing should be needed (GP worth) and how much should it scale for spell level?

Thanks for any input!

Edit: I adjusted the casting time from the ritual standard to the full hour that glyph of warding requires. Altered the spell cost as recommended by itreeby.

So after thinking over everything and reflecting on my original intention, I think I may have a better idea of how to go about this. Mind you this would only be available at 5th and I am keeping the ritual tag as a way to demonstrate the newness of the spell and as a way to add it to the character’s spell list but not take away from his/her options.

Casting Time: 1 hour
Range: Touch
Components: V, S, M (Magic ink cost equal to the spell level squared time fifty)
Duration: Dispelled or Triggered

You create a Glyph, similar to the Glyph of Warding, but the Glyph can be moved any distance from the casting point. The Glyph can be invisible or visible, but if invisible, requires a successful investigation agaisnt your spell DC to be found.

You determine the trigger upon creation and choose between Explosive Card, Protection Card, or Illusion Card.

Explosive Card: You create a 20 ft blast radius set to the damage type of acid, cold, fire, force, lightning, or thunder dealing 5d8 damage.

Protection Card: You replicate the Magic Circle spell. Using an additional Protection Card negates one that has been activated.

Illusion Card: You replicate the Major Image spell. The illusion lasts until it is dispelled or the card is moved or damaged.

At higher Levels: Explosive Card damage increases by 1d8 for each spell level above 3rd. Protection card’s duration increases per spell effect.

This is more in line with what I wanted to do with the spell with a playful nod to Gambit and Twisted Fate. Now how many cards should I limit the Explosive Card to? I realize as it stands, the nuke option is still there (not my intent :smallbiggrin: ) I like the idea of it but don't want it to be my only source of damage. Any ideas how to keep the fun of it with balance?

[iTreeby]

Should probably make the cost equal to the spell level squared time fifty and set the damage to 1d6 +slot level D6. Spell should be renamed to Money Cannon. It's not really balanced but I don't know how it ever could be.

[Bahamut7]

Should probably make the cost equal to the spell level squared time fifty and set the damage to 1d6 +slot level D6. Spell should be renamed to Money Cannon. It's not really balanced but I don't know how it ever could be.

Well the idea would be a modified version of Glyph of Warding, allowing the Warlock in question to make a few one-shot spell playing cards that he could fling on occasions. I lowered the casting time back to 10 minutes as a ritual in case a non-tomelock wanted to use it during a short rest to prepare for a siege...but now that I think about it, I think I will bump up the casting time to an hour to better fit in downtime activities.

The gold formula seems pretty good, out of curiosity, where did you come up with it?

[JackPhoenix]

Well the idea would be a modified version of Glyph of Warding, allowing the Warlock in question to make a few one-shot spell playing cards that he could fling on occasions. I lowered the casting time back to 10 minutes as a ritual in case a non-tomelock wanted to use it during a short rest to prepare for a siege...but now that I think about it, I think I will bump up the casting time to an hour to better fit in downtime activities.

The gold formula seems pretty good, out of curiosity, where did you come up with it?

Thing is, any halfway competent player see this, and won't use it to "fling it on occassions", but to pour ton of gold into a nuke-like book with glyph on every page that does arbitraryD6 damage to oneshot anything they don't like. There's a reason why GoW has that limitation.

[Bahamut7]

Thing is, any halfway competent player see this, and won't use it to "fling it on occassions", but to pour ton of gold into a nuke-like book with glyph on every page that does arbitraryD6 damage to oneshot anything they don't like. There's a reason why GoW has that limitation.

Yea, but aside from a NPC using GoW, it's a weird spell that I can't imagine anyone ever using. That aside, perhaps some more limitations are in order. Afterall, this is my first attempt at creating a spell, but I do value balance very much so.

So should I limit the amount of these glyphs in existence or limit their proximity? Increase the cost of materials or time? The idea of making a nuke book would be a Munchkin thing to do and while fun one time, would get old really quick.

As my OP says, any ideas to improve would be welcomed.

[JackPhoenix]

Yea, but aside from a NPC using GoW, it's a weird spell that I can't imagine anyone ever using. That aside, perhaps some more limitations are in order. Afterall, this is my first attempt at creating a spell, but I do value balance very much so.

So should I limit the amount of these glyphs in existence or limit their proximity? Increase the cost of materials or time? The idea of making a nuke book would be a Munchkin thing to do and while fun one time, would get old really quick.

As my OP says, any ideas to improve would be welcomed.

There are more problems than just nuke. Non-concentration buffs with the spell glyph option, for example. Having the buff station stationary puts some limits on its abuse, being able to bring it with you... we're back in 3.5 days, where everyone stacks Haste, (greater) Invisibility, Fly, and gods knows what else.

[MaxWilson]

Thing is, any halfway competent player see this, and won't use it to "fling it on occassions", but to pour ton of gold into a nuke-like book with glyph on every page that does arbitraryD6 damage to oneshot anything they don't like. There's a reason why GoW has that limitation.

You could limit it by making the Trap Card unstable, so they spontaneously decay after a certain period of time and/or spontaneously trigger when kept in close proximity with too many other Trap Card glyphs. E.g. if a level N Trap Card does (N+1)d6 damage and costs 50 * N^2 gold to create and detonates if it's ever one of more than N/2 Trap Cards within 10' of each other at the same time, then doing 40d6 (140) damage, save for half, would take 4 days of 9th level spell slots from a 17th level wizard/bard/whatever and would cost 16,200 gold. That's expensive and a bit niche but probably worthwhile and probably not overpowered. For the same amount of gold you could whistle up 1440 HP worth of air elementals doing 64d8+80 (448) HP of damage per round, although obviously Trap Card has better burst damage.

Now just add a duration on Trap Card (e.g. 1 week for Trap Card I - V, 1 month for Trap Card VI - VII, 1 year for Trap Card VIII, and 10 years for Trap Card IX) and I think you've got yourself a pretty reasonable spell, at least when it comes to damage.

I'm not so in favor of allowing it to have effects other than damage. If you really want non-damage options, I'd suggest just making those different spells, like Animal Card for summoning instead of Trap Card, or Illusion Card. Base them off normal spells but make throwing a card part of the somatic and material components. Otherwise you risk distorting gameplay with spells that are too good at concentration economy.

Note that the most broken spells in 5E right now are all either Healing Spirit or spells that stack and have no concentration requirement: Animate Dead, Planar Binding, Simulacrum (via chaining). That might make some people shrug and say, "Hey, it's already broken anyway," but it also ought to make people really cautious about adding stackable spells without concentration requirements.

[Bahamut7]

You could limit it by making the Trap Card unstable, so they spontaneously decay after a certain period of time and/or spontaneously trigger when kept in close proximity with too many other Trap Card glyphs. E.g. if a level N Trap Card does (N+1)d6 damage and costs 50 * N^2 gold to create and detonates if it's ever one of more than N/2 Trap Cards within 10' of each other at the same time, then doing 40d6 (140) damage, save for half, would take 4 days of 9th level spell slots from a 17th level wizard/bard/whatever and would cost 16,200 gold. That's expensive and a bit niche but probably worthwhile and probably not overpowered. For the same amount of gold you could whistle up 1440 HP worth of air elementals doing 64d8+80 (448) HP of damage per round, although obviously Trap Card has better burst damage.

Now just add a duration on Trap Card (e.g. 1 week for Trap Card I - V, 1 month for Trap Card VI - VII, 1 year for Trap Card VIII, and 10 years for Trap Card IX) and I think you've got yourself a pretty reasonable spell, at least when it comes to damage.

I'm not so in favor of allowing it to have effects other than damage. If you really want non-damage options, I'd suggest just making those different spells, like Animal Card for summoning instead of Trap Card, or Illusion Card. Base them off normal spells but make throwing a card part of the somatic and material components. Otherwise you risk distorting gameplay with spells that are too good at concentration economy.

Note that the most broken spells in 5E right now are all either Healing Spirit or spells that stack and have no concentration requirement: Animate Dead, Planar Binding, Simulacrum (via chaining). That might make some people shrug and say, "Hey, it's already broken anyway," but it also ought to make people really cautious about adding stackable spells without concentration requirements.

I definitely like that idea. Thanks, I will note that for later revisions. Granted, I don't think any of those spells are warlock spells, but MC shenanigans are always a possibility. Of course, I was making this for my own character and had no intention of abusing, but if others wanted to use it, proper balance is good to have.

[Quoxis]

If i understand it correctly, this is just the coffeelock all over again, just without metamagic and with full slot progression.
You’re basically allowing a warlock to create an indefinite amount of leveled spells to use as they please, per day of downtime they can make over 30 of those (if my math is correct) and they’re stronger than eldritch blast, even with agonizing blast.
Grossly overpowered. If anything, i‘d add the restrictions that either you can’t have more than three* of these things at the same time or that a spell slot you use for this spell can’t be regained until the card is destroyed.
(*needs to be tested, maybe less)

[dejarnjc]

Easy way to balance... requires a spell slot to cast and you cannot recover said spell slot while the glyph is maintained.

I like the concept for the spell but yeah it's way too powerful as is and its existence would beg the question of "why isn't the PC always casting this when they have 10 minutes to spare?". Limiting it to spell slots provides an opportunity cost with the benefit being a non concentration, potentially instantaneous spell effect whenever you need it, with no component requirement.

[Vogie]

If i understand it correctly, this is just the coffeelock all over again, just without metamagic and with full slot progression.
You’re basically allowing a warlock to create an indefinite amount of leveled spells to use as they please, per day of downtime they can make over 30 of those (if my math is correct) and they’re stronger than eldritch blast, even with agonizing blast.
Grossly overpowered. If anything, i‘d add the restrictions that either you can’t have more than three* of these things at the same time or that a spell slot you use for this spell can’t be regained until the card is destroyed.
(*needs to be tested, maybe less)

You're right...
There's a couple of ways to do it. You can limit it to:

a certain number (no more than 3, no more than 5, et cetera)
a certain type of spells (No more than 1 of each spell slot, limited to only cantrips or 2nd level and below levels)
a certain style of spells (only allow control spells)
limit it by time (the cards only last 1/4/8/12/24 hours)
resource use (similar to the artificer wizard's infuse feature - you expend a spell slot, but none of the spell’s effects occur. Instead, the spell transfers into that item for later use if the item doesn’t already contain a spell from this feature), although you would have to remove the ritual tag.


To be honest, why not just have Warlocks have the Glyph of Warding spell, but chain warlocks can inscribe them on their familiars? That way the familiar has more than just touch spells available to them (since warlocks have so many touch spells)

[MaxWilson]

You're right...
There's a couple of ways to do it. You can limit it to:
...

resource use (similar to the artificer wizard's infuse feature - you expend a spell slot, but none of the spell’s effects occur. Instead, the spell transfers into that item for later use if the item doesn’t already contain a spell from this feature), although you would have to remove the ritual tag.


Spell component cost is a form of resource use already.

[Quoxis]

You're right...
There's a couple of ways to do it. You can limit it to:

a certain number (no more than 3, no more than 5, et cetera)
a certain type of spells (No more than 1 of each spell slot, limited to only cantrips or 2nd level and below levels)
a certain style of spells (only allow control spells)
limit it by time (the cards only last 1/4/8/12/24 hours)
resource use (similar to the artificer wizard's infuse feature - you expend a spell slot, but none of the spell’s effects occur. Instead, the spell transfers into that item for later use if the item doesn’t already contain a spell from this feature), although you would have to remove the ritual tag.


To be honest, why not just have Warlocks have the Glyph of Warding spell, but chain warlocks can inscribe them on their familiars? That way the familiar has more than just touch spells available to them (since warlocks have so many touch spells)

Suicide bomber familiars? While that does sound interesting, i can see why it’s not an option, both from an RP and real life standpoint...

[Willie the Duck]

Well the idea would be a modified version of Glyph of Warding, allowing the Warlock in question to make a few one-shot spell playing cards that he could fling on occasions.

Trying to unravel your end-result goals for this-what about this is important the scribing a 'scroll of _x_ spell' (perhaps re-fluffed as a playing card) does not accomplish? You want something a warlock can keep in their back pocket in case of need. You also want it to have constraints (perhaps DM-gated ones) to keep it from getting out of hand. There's already plenty of ink spilled on magic item creation. Unless there's an important distinction I'm missing, it seems to me that this wheel has already been invented.

[Vogie]

Spell component cost is a form of resource use already.

Yes, because 5e players have so little money to purchase spell components.

Please.

This is a ritual spell. Should I dismiss the brokenness of the spell effect because time is a resource as well? Let's not argue about semantics.


Suicide bomber familiars? While that does sound interesting, i can see why it’s not an option, both from an RP and real life standpoint...

I'm just saying that glyph'd spells could be wielded by familiars... the familiars themselves don't actually need to explode.

And also... real life standpoint? Real life? There are so many questions. How does one forge a chain pact in real life? Can I get a familiar to pick up my laundry?

Having an invisible Sprite around that I can telepathically communicate with would 100% help my dating life. Even more than picking up laundry.

[Malifice]

So as the title suggested I created a new Warlock spell. I made a thread a little bit ago about Glyph of Warding and allowing a Warlock to use it. Well, I decided why not try making a new spell that better suits that character's needs. The rub? I have never done this before, so I am looking for any tweaks to properly balance it out. Here is the spell:

Trap Card (Ritual)

Casting Time: 10 minutes
Range: Touch
Components: V, S, M (Magic ink equivalent to spell level) Not sure gold equivalent here as spells come in many levels
Duration: Dispelled or Triggered

You create a Glyph, similar to the Glyph of Warding, but the Glyph can be moved any distance from the casting point. The Glyph can be invisible or visible, but if invisible, requires a successful investigation agaisnt your spell DC to be found.

You determine the trigger upon creation and must choose Explosive Runes or Spell Glyph.

Explosive Rune: You create a 20 ft blast radius set to the damage type of acid, cold, fire, force, lightning, or thunder dealing 3d8 damage. I added Force damage as it is similar to a condensed Eldritch Blast. I also lowered the damage as a Warlock could get a lot of mileage out of this and use it more often

Spell Glyph: The spell's effect is released upon trigger. I did this to eliminate the arguments about Rituals being usable or not

At higher Levels: Explosives runes increase by 1d8 for each spell level above 3rd. Spell Glyph is equal to whatever spell level you used.

What do you guys think? How should I tweak this further? Should I up the damage on the explosive rune back to Glyph of Wardings? How much Magical Ink used for spell scribing should be needed (GP worth) and how much should it scale for spell level?

Thanks for any input!

Yeah no.

As a ritual I can spam this over and over again, and create infinite numbers of these. I can do this with a spell slot as well (although that drains me for the day).

Seeing as the cards are permanent till dispelled, that lets me create as many as I have time for.

If it must be a ritual for some reason (or even if not) it needs the caveat of 'If you create another Trap Card, any previous trap cards created by you become inert and non magical.'

[Bahamut7]

If i understand it correctly, this is just the coffeelock all over again, just without metamagic and with full slot progression.
You’re basically allowing a warlock to create an indefinite amount of leveled spells to use as they please, per day of downtime they can make over 30 of those (if my math is correct) and they’re stronger than eldritch blast, even with agonizing blast.
Grossly overpowered. If anything, i‘d add the restrictions that either you can’t have more than three* of these things at the same time or that a spell slot you use for this spell can’t be regained until the card is destroyed.
(*needs to be tested, maybe less)

Coffeelock was not my intent, but I can see how it could lead down that path.

As a few others have pointed out, I see leaning towards a set amount of these MAX with a limited time might be the better route. As for why I don't just add Glyph of Warding to this character's spell list, I find the spell too limited to be of any real use (at least in the type of games I typically play in). I only made it a ritual, because it seemed to make more sense of how the character created the spell. He tried to replicate GoW but ended up bypassing some of its limitations but with a cost. Unstable or limited Glyphs? Probably.

[MaxWilson]

Yes, because 5e players have so little money to purchase spell components.

Please.

You're missing the point. Money is already convertible into power. Money buys elemental servants (via Planar Binding), Purple Worm poison, armies of hirelings (powerful due to bounded accuracy), kegs of gunpowder, etc. As long as Trap Card is not an obviously more powerful use of money than all of those other things, it's fine. Frankly, spending 1250 gold to create a trap card doing 5d8 damage is a rather mediocre use of 1250 gold.

I'd still remove the ritual tag or increase spell level to compensate. BTW it isn't clear what level Trap Card 2.0 is supposed to be--I infer from the OP that it's supposed to be 3rd level because "this would only be available at 5th" which I think refers to 5th level PCs.

I would also definitely add a clause limiting stacking via decay or limits. Notwithstanding what I've said above about gunpowder kegs, I'm not eager to increase the number of arbitrarily-powerful damage effects in the game. Spending 125,000 gold to create 500d8 (2250 HP) worth of explosions that can all be triggered with a single free action is not likely to be often useful, but I'd rather just have it not be possible at all and avoid all potential issues. I.e. I wouldn't want Trap Card to distort gameplay in the campaign the way Planar Binding does, unless the whole campaign were already designed around it--but I think the OP is intending to create a spell for his own character, so he's clearly not DMing, and as a DM I wouldn't let a player research Trap Card without adding limits on stacking.

[Bahamut7]

I'd still remove the ritual tag or increase spell level to compensate. BTW it isn't clear what level Trap Card 2.0 is supposed to be--I infer from the OP that it's supposed to be 3rd level because "this would only be available at 5th" which I think refers to 5th level PCs.

I would also definitely add a clause limiting stacking via decay or limits.

I wouldn't want Trap Card to distort gameplay in the campaign the way Planar Binding does, unless the whole campaign were already designed around it--but I think the OP is intending to create a spell for his own character, so he's clearly not DMing, and as a DM I wouldn't let a player research Trap Card without adding limits on stacking.

Yes it would be a third level spell as this is suppose to be a variation of GoW this character created.

And the point of this was for a character that I would play...not sure when as I am my group's 5e DM lol, but it is still fun to craft the ideas and concepts. As this is good practice in case one of my players asked to create a new spell.

Any suggestions on the limits of stacking? I think I did a good job on revision with the Protection and Illusion one, but the Explosive card I still can't figure out a good limit that allows fun but not broken in either direction.

[MaxWilson]

Any suggestions on the limits of stacking? I think I did a good job on revision with the Protection and Illusion one, but the Explosive card I still can't figure out a good limit that allows fun but not broken in either direction.

I gave a suggestion upthread which I didn't see a response from you on: put a (fairly long-ish) duration on it before it decays, and also limit how many of them can be close to each other before detonating.

If you want something simpler, you could just say, "A warlock can only have as many Trap Cards at one time as his Warlock spellcasting modifier."

[Bahamut7]

I gave a suggestion upthread which I didn't see a response from you on: put a (fairly long-ish) duration on it before it decays, and also limit how many of them can be close to each other before detonating.

If you want something simpler, you could just say, "A warlock can only have as many Trap Cards at one time as his Warlock spellcasting modifier."

Yea sorry, I was reading and responding at desktop and mobile while working and entertaining. I knew I had missed a post.

"detonates if it's ever one of more than N/2 Trap Cards within 10' of each other at the same time"

I like this as it reflects the danger of new spells, especially ones being created by a Warlock who has the least amount of control over the raw power put into their spells (forced upcasting).

"Now just add a duration on Trap Card (e.g. 1 week for Trap Card I - V, 1 month for Trap Card VI - VII, 1 year for Trap Card VIII, and 10 years for Trap Card IX) and I think you've got yourself a pretty reasonable spell, at least when it comes to damage."

I am going to play around with these in between specific tasks, but I like where this is going.

Thanks!

[krugaan]

I can't help but think this is a lot like a reflavored Melf's Minute Meteors.

Toss little exploding things as a bonus action.

If you want to toss a big exploding thing? Sounds like fireball.

[Quoxis]

And also... real life standpoint? Real life? There are so many questions. How does one forge a chain pact in real life? Can I get a familiar to pick up my laundry?

No you nut, i meant that it’s unlikely we‘d ever get a suicide bomber mechanic because it closely mirrors reallife suicide bombers which in turn is a touchy subject. After the satanic panic, do you think Wotc wants to be associated with that?

[Vogie]

No you nut, i meant that it’s unlikely we‘d ever get a suicide bomber mechanic because it closely mirrors reallife suicide bombers which in turn is a touchy subject. After the satanic panic, do you think Wotc wants to be associated with that?

... No one said anything about them dying. Warlocks would just be able to choose a spell, glyph it onto their familiar, then have the familiar deliver it. I'm sorry you took that as "Make your imp explode", but that wasn't the intention. Unless the introduction of this includes a Lemming as a Warlock familiar. Side note - that game came out in 1991, making my fondness for it an indication I'm really old :(




So after thinking over everything and reflecting on my original intention, I think I may have a better idea of how to go about this. Mind you this would only be available at 5th and I am keeping the ritual tag as a way to demonstrate the newness of the spell and as a way to add it to the character’s spell list but not take away from his/her options.

Trap Card! V2.0
Casting Time: 1 hour
Range: Touch
Components: V, S, M (Magic ink cost equal to the spell level squared time fifty)
Duration: Dispelled or Triggered

You create a Glyph, similar to the Glyph of Warding, but the Glyph can be moved any distance from the casting point. The Glyph can be invisible or visible, but if invisible, requires a successful investigation agaisnt your spell DC to be found.

You determine the trigger upon creation and choose between Explosive Card, Protection Card, or Illusion Card.

Explosive Card: You create a 20 ft blast radius set to the damage type of acid, cold, fire, force, lightning, or thunder dealing 5d8 damage.
Protection Card: You replicate the Magic Circle spell. Using an additional Protection Card negates one that has been activated.
Illusion Card: You replicate the Major Image spell. The illusion lasts until it is dispelled or the card is moved or damaged.

At higher Levels: Explosive Card damage increases by 1d8 for each spell level above 3rd. Protection card’s duration increases per spell effect.[/SPOILER]

This is more in line with what I wanted to do with the spell with a playful nod to Gambit and Twisted Fate. Now how many cards should I limit the Explosive Card to? I realize as it stands, the nuke option is still there (not my intent :smallbiggrin: ) I like the idea of it but don't want it to be my only source of damage. Any ideas how to keep the fun of it with balance?

That's a bit better. I like the idea that you're limiting it to only a handful of spells, and cranking it up to a 5th level spell (available at warlock 9). I'd say 3 is still the best number. If you want more, maybe increase it to 5 at level 18.

[Bahamut7]

That's a bit better. I like the idea that you're limiting it to only a handful of spells, and cranking it up to a 5th level spell (available at warlock 9). I'd say 3 is still the best number. If you want more, maybe increase it to 5 at level 18.

Well it is a 3rd level spell as it is a variation of Glyph of Ward. I wanted to include the Illusion aspect because I was hoping whenever this character gets to be played he could be the originator of the Deck of Illusions or rediscover it. The Exploding Runes aspect screamed Gambit...but...GoW distance limitation shot that down immediately (granted a refluffed Eldritch Blast still gives that) and I hated to see it go to waste.