What non-wizard spell would you like on a wizard?

[RoboEmperor]

I can add one upto 9th level with Wyrm Wizard but... after combing through hundreds and hundreds of spells, I just can't find a spell I like/need/want. So it's time to post a thread!

It doesn't have to be powerful, you can like it for other reasons.

Miracle is one spell... and that's it! All I can think of.

Oh and for the purpose of this thread, Domain Exclusive Spells are not part of a class's spell list, so Spell Research can't let you grab them.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Fission. Do powers count?

[Nifft]

Wings of Cover.

Improvisation.

Glibness.

[Ramza00]

Improvisation (Bard 1), You gain a bonus pool consists of 2 points per caster level, which you can spend as you like to improve attack rolls, skill checks, and ability checks, although no single check can receive a bonus greater than one-half your caster level.

There are some also good cleric spells that are 2nd and 3rd level that help you by giving you flexible luck bonuses you can use on the fly. They have a longer duration like 10 mins / level so you cast the spells out of combat and you can apply the bonus as a free action but that ends the spell duration.

Conviction (Cleric 1) is also great, a +2 morale bonus on saving throws, with an additional +1 to the bonus for every six caster levels you have (maximum +5 morale bonus at 18th level).

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Aka the nice thing about luck and moral bonus is they are hard to get from other sources so it is easy to stack things.

[RoboEmperor]

Fission. Do powers count?

Nope, sorry. My DM ruled "magic psionic transparency doesn't mean psionic powers are spells and therefore replicatable by miracle or limited wish"

[Eldariel]

Depends on what I want to do with the Wizard. If I wanna Shapechange'n'bash, Divine Power is pretty great. If I'd like to be a necromancer, Desecrate is kind of a must and there's a litany of interesting undead buffs available to Clerics. Speaking of buffs, spells like Righteous Wrath of the Faithful or Recitation can be pretty great, as can e.g. Holy Star, Greater Visage of the Deity, Holy Transformation, etc. The list is too long to look through.

Far as offensive spells, Control Winds from Druid-list is just incredible. Sure, you can Miracle it, but getting it outta a 5th level slot is pretty nice. Other than that, Summon Undead V isn't bad for some incorporeals (Allip as the standout), and Summon Nature's Ally IX has some awesome options. Some simple utility like Divine Insight, Inspiration, and Guidance of the Avatar is of course great. Eh, this is just "which spells are good", to which the answer is "a ton of them".

[Quertus]

Nope, sorry. My DM ruled "magic psionic transparency doesn't mean psionic powers are spells and therefore replicatable by miracle or limited wish"

But are they not still of equivalent power level, which still makes them replicatable?

But, personally, I'd probably look at Miracle or Heal.

[Ramza00]

Benediction is the 2nd level Cleric Spell I was talking about earlier but can't remember the name (there are also other cleric spells that do similar things but Benediction is the best due to being lower level and better duration.)

Touch Range
10 Min / Level Duratin

+2 luck bonus on all saving throws
Can be discharged as a free action to reroll a single attack roll, saving throw, skill check, or ability check after seeing the result of the initial roll, but before finding out whether it succeeds or fails. The higher of the two rolls applies. Once this option is exercised, the spell ends immediately.

Effectively the awesomeness of the Luck Domain but as a 2nd level spell, with the only downside being a 10 min / level duration which is an awesome duration but the Luck Domain lasts all day even if you can do it only once.

[BowStreetRunner]

Heal would be my knee-jerk answer. It does so many of the things that I usually wish my arcane casters could do better.

[ManicOppressive]

Divine Power would have to merit consideration. Makes gishing rather trivial.

[RoboEmperor]

Eh, this is just "which spells are good", to which the answer is "a ton of them".

that's why i made this thread. There are TONS of them, so narrow it down for me!

I'm surprised by all the low level suggestions though. You could add a 9th level spell and and you'll add a 2nd level spell? o_O. I know the spells suggested in this thread are all awesome, having personally used them, but it does kinda feel like a waste a little XD

[BowStreetRunner]

that's why i made this thread. There are TONS of them, so narrow it down for me!

I'm surprised by all the low level suggestions though. You could add a 9th level spell and and you'll add a 2nd level spell? o_O. I know the spells suggested in this thread are all awesome, having personally used them, but it does kinda feel like a waste a little XDI would automatically rule out anything that does something the Wizard can already do, even if it does it in a novel way. So for instance, Wizards are pretty good at Battlefield Control already. So no matter how awesome the most awesome cleric battlefield control spell is, it still isn't needed by a Wizard.

Focus less on making your strengths even stronger, and more on filling in a weakness.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Is there a non-psion, non-wizard version of psychic reformation?

[RoboEmperor]

But are they not still of equivalent power level, which still makes them replicatable?

But, personally, I'd probably look at Miracle or Heal.

Probably. I don't think we should believe my DM's ruling is RAW. He's one of them "Spellcasters are OP as it is without any leniency, so no leniency" type of DMs.


I would automatically rule out anything that does something the Wizard can already do, even if it does it in a novel way. So for instance, Wizards are pretty good at Battlefield Control already. So no matter how awesome the most awesome cleric battlefield control spell is, it still isn't needed by a Wizard.

Focus less on making your strengths even stronger, and more on filling in a weakness.

I got all the bases covered, even healing. So I'm looking for more OMG THAT'S SO AMAZING type of spells or spell combos rather than bread and butter or cookie cutter.


Is there a non-psion, non-wizard version of psychic reformation?

Dark Chaos Shuffle, but the moment you even mention those words the DM is going to label you as a power gaming mega optimizer immediately. Otherwise I'd be going Dark Chaos Shuffle instead of making this thread XD

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

I would want Surge of Fortune, Wings of Cover, Heal, Miracle, Revivify, (Greater) Consumptive Field, and Empyreal Ecstasy off the top of my head as truly non-wizard spells. If I had to pick one... Surge of Fortune. It's not the most powerful option, but putting it on the Wizard list avoids a bunch of hassle and you'd definitely use it all the time.

You could also pick lower level versions of spells found on non-full-caster lists, e.g. Haste from Trapsmith as a level 1 spell. That's always fun, if a bit boring.

[Darth Ultron]

Animate Objects can be very useful. The ability to animate anything for a short time alloys you to have an object that can do a lot of things.

Word of Recall is a nice escape.

[Maat Mons]

Wait, doesn't Divine Crusader make domain spells accessible?

Irresistible Dance is 6th level for Bards, instead of 8th level for Wizards. True Seeing is 4th level for Urban Ranger, instead of 6th level for Wizards. The spell list for Trapsmith is something of a goldmine.

[RoboEmperor]

Wait, doesn't Divine Crusader make domain spells accessible?

Domain Spells don't have "Level:Divine Crusader X", in its description. So the spell itself is not on the Divine Crusader's spell list, and the class has a special ability to make that spell into its class spell (similar to Wyrm Wizard's Spell Research) meaning just because a Divine Crusader can make the domain spell its class spell doesn't mean the domain spells themselves are class spells.

[heavyfuel]

Getting 9ths isn't so great in this case because you, as a Wizard, already have the best 9ths in the game. Why would you spend a 9th level slot on a spell that's strictly inferior to anything you have?

With that in mind, Wings of Cover is a simply amazing spell, worthy of consideration. By this level, you can prepare all your 2nd level slots with this and you probably won't miss them but you get immediate action "no", which is just too good to pass up, especially for a 2nd level spell.

[Ramza00]

Getting 9ths isn't so great in this case because you, as a Wizard, already have the best 9ths in the game. Why would you spend a 9th level slot on a spell that's strictly inferior to anything you have?

With that in mind, Wings of Cover is a simply amazing spell, worthy of consideration. By this level, you can prepare all your 2nd level slots with this and you probably won't miss them but you get immediate action "no", which is just too good to pass up, especially for a 2nd level spell.

One of the nice things about wings of cover is that if you are the dragonblood subtype you can cover on additional ally in an adjacent / nearby square for every 3 caster levels. Aka your wings of cover covers 7 total squares at caster level 18. Protection for the entire party / most of the party.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Another reason not to go for 9ths is that, for most (but not all) builds, that lasts, at most, 4 levels, unless A.) you reach 9ths early, or B.) you go epic. Or E20, or something, but how often does that happen?

And even then, how often do people actually play such a build all the way to 17+?

[Quertus]

Getting 9ths isn't so great in this case because you, as a Wizard, already have the best 9ths in the game. Why would you spend a 9th level slot on a spell that's strictly inferior to anything you have?

Miracle doesn't cost XP for the basic uses, so it's better than Wish, not worse, for general utility.

[Maat Mons]

Domain Spells don't have "Level:Divine Crusader X", in its description.

Those listings are not exhaustive. In general, a spell will only list its level for classes from the Player's Handbook, and classes from the same book the spell itself was published in.




the class has a special ability to make that spell into its class spell ... just because a Divine Crusader can make the domain spell its class spell doesn't mean the domain spells themselves are class spells.

Fair enough. It does say the class only "effectively" has a spell list. And something ca hardly be considered a "class spell list" if it's completely different for different members of the same class.

Very well, you've convinced me.

[heavyfuel]

Miracle doesn't cost XP for the basic uses, so it's better than Wish, not worse, for general utility.

In terms of general utility: Shapechange > Gate >>>> Miracle > Wish

Guess which 3 out 4 Wizards get. Preparing Miracle is simply not worth when you can prepare either Shapechange or Gate

[Nifft]

In terms of general utility: Shapechange > Gate >>>> Miracle > Wish

Guess which 3 out 4 Wizards get. Preparing Miracle is simply not worth when you can prepare either Shapechange or Gate

Agree.

However, having Miracle on your list means nice things for a Shadowcraft Mage -- who never prepares the spell as such.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Agree.

However, having Miracle on your list means nice things for a Shadowcraft Mage -- who never prepares the spell as such.There are other ways to grab miracle, though. There are plenty of spells that aren't on any domains, such as (greater) consumptive field or (lesser) vigor, which would be better picks, honestly.

[Grim Reader]

Greater Arcane Fusion if you can get it to work. Transcend Mortality, especially for a gish. True Resurrection is good with contingency, maybe after Transcending Mortality. Need a good source of diamonds if you're going to pull that a lot.

I am away from books, was Arcane Spellsurge Sorcerer only?

[PhantasyPen]

I'd say Divine Power and one of the Restoration spells are the major divine spells I'd look at on a wizard.

[heavyfuel]

I am away from books, was Arcane Spellsurge Sorcerer only?

It's Sorc, Wiz, and Wu-Jen.


I'd say Divine Power and one of the Restoration spells are the major divine spells I'd look at on a wizard.

Problem with Restoration is that if you ever really need it, it can be duplicated by Limited Wish.

As for Divine Power, unless you plan on going full Wizardzilla by Persisting it - in which case you're just shooting yourself in the foot by full-attacking when you could be casting game breaking spells - then it's also pretty useless.

[PhantasyPen]

Problem with Restoration is that if you ever really need it, it can be duplicated by Limited Wish.

As for Divine Power, unless you plan on going full Wizardzilla by Persisting it - in which case you're just shooting yourself in the foot by full-attacking when you could be casting game breaking spells - then it's also pretty useless.

Eh, I disagree, if you use santified spells, Restoration is pretty much a must, as it undoes the ability damage component of those spells.

Also Divine Power is great if you want some pseudo-swordsmanship on a pure caster. It also gives you an option if your DM decides to pull out iron golems or something like that, since the spell affects you and not them. (He says, sheepishly trying to forget the time he out-dueled the Warblade with a wizard on accident.)

[heavyfuel]

Eh, I disagree, if you use santified spells, Restoration is pretty much a must, as it undoes the ability damage component of those spells.

Fair point, I forgot about those.