Hexblade / Swordbard level splits

[krugaan]

So, currently playing a 6 swordsbard / 1 hexblade, much fun is being had by all. The functional amounts of AC that you can spike to is frankly ridiculous.

The real question is ... more bard or more hexblade? The argument for more bard is basically higher level spells, which is nothing to sneeze at, for sure, but I'm finding it harder and harder to justify more bard when hexblade levels offer better versatility (at least in my mind).

Was looking at the spells I could conceivably get at level 7 bard, and most of them I found could be sort of replicated by lower level spells... sort of.


Improved Invisibility - very nice, but somewhat replicated by darkness / devils sight
Dimension Door - rich man's misty step, can carry passengers
Polymorph - no substitute for this, but I don't like using it for different reasons
Freedom of Movement - no substitute either, unless magic item


5th level spells are better...


Animate Objects - OP, yadda yadda, I don't use this as a favor to the DM
Dominate Person - most fun with intrigue campaigns, but that's what deception and persuasion are for
Scrying - this is the one spell i might really miss, since I would be the only person able to cast it
Synaptic Static - ... but this comes really close. Fireball with better element, better save, and better bane rider for no concentration? Call me sold.


And I'm getting eldritch invocations and short rest pact slots in return. At level 5 hexblade I get counterspell (which I would have gotten anyway with magical secrets) and eldritch smite, which is nice, but having stronger ranged options for peeling and more low level resources is working out better than I expected, honestly.

[JeffreyGator]

If you're not that interested in higher level bard spells, then certainly more warlock works out for you.


Improved invisibility is stronger than darkness/devils sight for melee combat in that it doesn't hamper your party as much.

I like devils sight much better combined with hunger of hadar though, but then your shooting people in a barrel.


How much duplication do you want? Swords bard and hexblade already duplicate your proficiencies. You get to save the extra attack invocation since you have it from bard already.

[Vogie]

Note you don't have to choose blade-pact just because you're a Hexblade. You are already have the Hex Warrior boon to make yourself SAD, and the only thing going bladepact would do is allow you to use 2handed weapons, Ranged weapons (with Improved Pact Weapon) and Eldritch Smite.

At the same time, you could go Chain pact for an improved familiar, or tomelock for more cantrips and ritual casting.

If you keep going up the Warlock tree you can also grab free freedom of movement at Warlock 7, or Free bonus Action teleports to your cursed target (the target of Hex, Hexblades' curse or your Bard's Bestow Curse).

[RSP]

Based on your post, it sounds like you’ve already made up your mind.

I think W2 and 3 are definitely worthwhile for an extra spell slot, invocations, 2nd level slots, and the Pact, if you want Chain or Guidance.

Other than that, what level spell do you want on a short rest? If just using 1st levels for Shield, no need to progress past W2.

Bard 10 gets magical secrets, so keep that in mind when making your decision (my favorites being Sanctuary and maybe Haste, though there are obviously plenty of choices).

[GigaGuess]

Taking notes for myself.

[CTurbo]

I can't think of any reason to go more than Warlock 3, and I can think of a lot of good reasons to go Warlock 3.

So yeah Warlock 3/Bard 17 seems pretty obvious to me. The only question is when to take the other 2 Warlock levels and I would say right after Bard 6.

[Talionis]

Echoing what has been said...

Magical Secrets is coming for Bard at level 10 and that gets you access to all the Paladin spells and all the Ranger spells, even Cleric spells like Spirit Guardians.

Depending how far you are going with the character getting Bard 18 maybe a good capstone because you can get Magical Secrets for 9th level spells, which is the best way to get the Wish spell.

Getting another spell slot and invocations at level 2 Warlock is nice and 2nd level spells a Pact of either Tome or Chain both seem really good. But what do you need from them? If you need a particular low level invocation it might be worth putting off Magical Secrets at Bard 10.

Even though you seem pretty set to bail on Bard, think about what you are really going and what you want your character to ultimately be good at. Weighing in on how far you are likely to actually progress this character.

[krugaan]

Based on your post, it sounds like you’ve already made up your mind.

Bard 10 gets magical secrets, so keep that in mind when making your decision (my favorites being Sanctuary and maybe Haste, though there are obviously plenty of choices).

I have pretty much, just wondering if I'm missing compelling reasons not to. You pick sanctuary and haste instead of counterspell? To be fair, I'm pretty much required to take it as the only non-divine caster in the party.

In fact, the primary reason I was hesitant to go more warlock is because our party is very melee heavy atm: hexswordbard (there's got to be an easier way of saying it), battlemaster fighter, light cleric, totem barb, and arcane trickster.


Even though you seem pretty set to bail on Bard, think about what you are really going and what you want your character to ultimately be good at. Weighing in on how far you are likely to actually progress this character.

As to the other questions, playing SKT, just finished talking to the Oracle, if that matters. We most likely won't be hitting 20, but the possibility is open. I haven't actually ever played past 12 or so (group is super casual and new to DnD), so I'm not terribly worried about gimping some sort of mega super build.

DM tends to prop up unoptimized builds with custom magical items anyway, but I'm more or less expected to know what I'm doing, which I'm fine with.


I can't think of any reason to go more than Warlock 3, and I can think of a lot of good reasons to go Warlock 3.


Yeah, I think it works. I have a whack-ass sword right now (actually my only magical item), so I'm going to be going pact of blade simply for RP purposes.

Plan so far looks like:

War 2 - grasping / powerful blast, 2 pact spells, protection from good/evil
War 3 - pact of blade, swap powerful for devil sight, darkness
War 4 - probably warcaster, silent image, misty step
War 5 - ELDRITCH SMITE (om nom nom nom), counterspell
War 6 - hexblade feature is pretty cool, hunger of hadar

Beyond that I might ditch Warlock for more bard, I suppose, but that's all way in the future anyway.

[RSP]

I have pretty much, just wondering if I'm missing compelling reasons not to. You pick sanctuary and haste instead of counterspell? To be fair, I'm pretty much required to take it as the only non-divine caster in the party.

...

War 2 - grasping / powerful blast, 2 pact spells, protection from good/evil
War 3 - pact of blade, swap powerful for devil sight, darkness
War 4 - probably warcaster, silent image, misty step
War 5 - ELDRITCH SMITE (om nom nom nom), counterspell
War 6 - hexblade feature is pretty cool, hunger of hadar

Haste is a popular choice, thou it’s certainly not manditory. If not going W 5, then it’s not a bad choice. If not going too far in Warlock, you can grab something like Shadow of Moil quicker going Bard

[krugaan]

Haste is a popular choice, thou it’s certainly not manditory. If not going W 5, then it’s not a bad choice. If not going too far in Warlock, you can grab something like Shadow of Moil quicker going Bard

Ironically, I might actually be the highest melee dps on the team currently, since our barb doesn't have GWM (he's new) and loves rolling 1's and 2's.

Shadow of Moil is *awfully* tempting (like greater invisibility) since I'm a half elf with elven accuracy and hexblades curse (something like 48% chance to crit at least once with advantage and two attacks?), but I like to save concentration for faerie fire, hypnotic pattern, or flight.

Still, +1 frostbrand on a crit does 4d8+2d6+11 damage with flourish and hexblades curse, which is fairly chunky at level 8. Sorcadins can hit higher, naturally, but I think hexbards have better longevity and versatility.

[Snowbluff]

I'd like to point out that Haste does compete for competition with Shadowblade, Spirit Guardians, and Tenser's Transformation (to a lesser degree). There are a lot of good spells bard can get.

Also if you can get up to 17 bard, I think you can take foresight, which is really good.

[RSP]

I'd like to point out that Haste does compete for competition with Shadowblade, Spirit Guardians, and Tenser's Transformation (to a lesser degree). There are a lot of good spells bard can get.

Also if you can get up to 17 bard, I think you can take foresight, which is really good.

Shadow Blade is a fantastic choice if going Dex, but I’m assuming since Hexblade, the OP isn’t; Shadow Blade cannot benefit from Hex Warrior’s use of Cha for Attacks, unfortunately. SG is a good choice if commonly in the think of melee.

[krugaan]

Shadow Blade is a fantastic choice if going Dex, but I’m assuming since Hexblade, the OP isn’t; Shadow Blade cannot benefit from Hex Warrior’s use of Cha for Attacks, unfortunately. SG is a good choice if commonly in the think of melee.

Yes, my dex is only slightly above average, and the concentration + no hex weapon thing is a real deal breaker. I feel concentration is better spent on CC or party buffs than a questionable "buff" to damage dice.

Although ... you know, now that it's been brought up...

Tensers + double bladed scimitar seems like it would be pretty strong...

[Snowbluff]

Shadow Blade is a fantastic choice if going Dex, but I’m assuming since Hexblade, the OP isn’t; Shadow Blade cannot benefit from Hex Warrior’s use of Cha for Attacks, unfortunately. SG is a good choice if commonly in the think of melee.
You are right, I'm playing a Bard/Paladin in AL so I'm not using Cha as an attacking stat. :P

Yes, my dex is only slightly above average, and the concentration + no hex weapon thing is a real deal breaker. I feel concentration is better spent on CC or party buffs than a questionable "buff" to damage dice.

Although ... you know, now that it's been brought up...

Tensers + double bladed scimitar seems like it would be pretty strong...

With that in mind, Tenser's does prevent your casting. Also, it can be really funny with Greater Steed as it gives your pet the damage buff as well.