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MonkeySage
2018-08-02, 03:27 AM
For a new Starfinder game, I made it very clear to all of my players that the company they work for has fitted their uniforms with Universal Translators. I did this because I wanted to spare my players the hassle of trying to figure out how to communicate with every single new species they come across (and since they work for an exploration company, that is very likely without universal translators).

I had a player who built his entire character around being an interpreter, for when they encounter a species they don't share a language with. Now, the Universal Translators do have limits: they can't translate Spiritfolk (Celestial, Infernal, Abyssal, etc), for example. Other than that, though, there are very few languages the universal translator won't work on- even if the species is only just discovered by any space faring civilization, the translator will still work.

Is it my fault as a GM that this player feels like his entire build is invalidated by this feature? I'll also note that of all the game nights I've ran for this over the past several months, he's attended maybe a handful of them. Which is fine, they have a starship and his absence can easily be explained as him just staying on the ship... But I feel like, even if he missed the part about there being universal translators, he'd have picked up on that fact sooner if he attended more games.

I suppose the point I'm approaching, in this half rant, is... How can I make sure this doesn't happen again? I told all of my players, during character creation, multiple times "Do not worry about learning a whole bunch of languages. You have a universal translator"

Pelle
2018-08-02, 04:48 AM
I suppose the point I'm approaching, in this half rant, is... How can I make sure this doesn't happen again?


By talking to your players, and being involved in their character creation.



I told all of my players, during character creation, multiple times "Do not worry about learning a whole bunch of languages. You have a universal translator"

Was this player present when you said this? Did he understand the implications of what "universal translator" meant?

Whyrocknodie
2018-08-02, 06:04 AM
Plan A ditch the device, there are no universal translators (or maybe they have three or four corporation approved languages). Plan B ditch the character, change it to an expert in something else.

p.s. They built a character for Starfinderwhose entire purpose was being a translator? That in itself is astonishing. Your local gaming meta must be vastly different to what I'd expect for Starfinder... it wouldn't surprise me if most campaigns would be completely unaffected by simply ignoring languages entirely.

Studoku
2018-08-02, 06:39 AM
I think an interpreter can still be useful in a setting with universal translators- you just need to expand the role a bit.

They're not just there to translate what the alien is saying. They're the one that knows which crazy laws the party needs to be aware of, that they questgiver they're being rude to is the ruler of the planet, or that this particular species' anatomy means they consider walking around hatless to be very offensive.

PrismCat21
2018-08-02, 08:03 AM
Based on your description, the fault lies entirely on the Player.
He knew about it beforehand and ignored it. Now he's whining because it's affecting him in ways he didn't think about.
You don't need to change anything. He needed to either suck it up, or make a new character.

Anonymouswizard
2018-08-02, 09:19 AM
I think an interpreter can still be useful in a setting with universal translators- you just need to expand the role a bit.

They're not just there to translate what the alien is saying. They're the one that knows which crazy laws the party needs to be aware of, that they questgiver they're being rude to is the ruler of the planet, or that this particular species' anatomy means they consider walking around hatless to be very offensive.

Yeah, I'd certainly include a linguist, sociologist, and other similar fields on an exploration ship even with universal translators. Being able to analyse the language and society is just a useful thing to do, it allows you to know if 'arrrrrgh' means 'no I wasn't trying to seduce your green skinned space daughter', 'pull the other one, it has speakers on it', or 'no, I want you to hold the largest blade to my neck'.

Somebody who's focused entirely on understanding languages is probably just an NPC on the ship, but somebody dedicated to understanding cultures is a vital part of the first contact team. Which consists of the PCs and whoever the PCs decide to bring along. Just because you understand the language doesn't mean you're understanding exactly what they're saying. In many cases somebody able to work this stuff out is more important than another blaster. It's like how the spaceship should include at least one engineer (the PC engineer is the Head Engineer), if you don't have one everything's going to break down and you're stranded somewhere with no food or oxygen.

Lord Torath
2018-08-02, 09:44 AM
Next time, I'd recommend being more involved in character creation. Make each player pitch you their character concept before they start building. Then you can let them know early on whether or not their character will likely have a PC role or an NPC role in the game.

For this case, I'd recommend sitting down with your player and discussing how you both want to proceed. Perhaps you can expand their role as Studoku and Annonymous Wizard suggested. Perhaps you can let the player make some changes to their character so they'll be more useful. Or you can let the player make a new character.

As DM, if one of your players is unhappy, it is your problem. It may or may not be your fault, but it's still something you need to deal with. Telling them to suck it up will breed resentment, which will make them sullen and/or antagonistic, neither of which is good for you or the other players (or your game).

JoshuaZ
2018-08-02, 09:51 AM
I think an interpreter can still be useful in a setting with universal translators- you just need to expand the role a bit.

They're not just there to translate what the alien is saying. They're the one that knows which crazy laws the party needs to be aware of, that they questgiver they're being rude to is the ruler of the planet, or that this particular species' anatomy means they consider walking around hatless to be very offensive.

Also, it is possible that a universal translator doesn't always translate perfectly or in the most diplomatic fashion; idioms are tough. So someone who knows the actual languages may get advantages/bonuses in diplomatic contexts.

Cosi
2018-08-02, 10:03 AM
Honestly, if "translator" was a big enough part of his character that invalidating it ruins the character, that seems like a big problem even without the universal translator. What does a translator do in a fight, or in a non-combat situation where you have to do science at some technobabble? Translation is a fairly narrow niche.

Darth Ultron
2018-08-02, 10:45 AM
I suppose the point I'm approaching, in this half rant, is... How can I make sure this doesn't happen again? I told all of my players, during character creation, multiple times "Do not worry about learning a whole bunch of languages. You have a universal translator"

It looks like you did everything you could. What more can to do then tell the players things?

Some players, either by design or by accident, make characters that don't fit in a game. There is really noting to be done about it.

Segev
2018-08-02, 11:23 AM
The one piece of advice I'd have for you is not to approve a character built around something you have setting features invalidate. He screwed up building it, but you should have told him, upon receiving the concept, "No, don't build that. Your whole schtick will be overwritten by the universal translator."

So, in the future, avoiding it is as easy (and as hard) as rejecting concepts that won't work in your game.

Kardwill
2018-08-02, 11:28 AM
It looks like you did everything you could. What more can to do then tell the players things?

Some players, either by design or by accident, make characters that don't fit in a game. There is really noting to be done about it.

There's one thing that can be done : When they pitch a character that doesn't fit (or do something that sounds stupid), warn them again. Character creation is a dialogue between the members of the group and GM, but not all players are 100% all the time. Especially when they're busy fishing info and ideas in a rulebook. I never simply assume a player has heard, understood and memorized a critical bit of info. Leaving the players to their own device during character creation, without group/GM input, can be a recipe for disaster.

The problem here really sounds like a small mishap in communication. If one of my players said his character's concept is a translator in such a setting, I would try to clarify."Are you sure? You're aware that the Universal Translator will make you kinda redundant? I can work some situations where a real translator will have occasions to shine, but to be honest, they will be few and far between, and a translator risks being more of a comical character the rest of the time. Unless you have suggestions?"
That way, the player will make an informed decision and know the consequences (and can't complain when he does it anyway and suffers the consequences), and you will have PCs that fit into the game :)

As to how to salvage the situation right now? I'd sit down with the player (and maybe the other players), and maybe rework the character into a niche that is a better fit for your game. Maybe he's a translator, but also learned other stuff during his bumpy carreer (and so, since the "translator" bit is mostly flavour, you repurpose the ressource - gear, skill points, whatever - he sunk into it and put it somewhere else). Or maybe there's solmething wrong with the UT nobody knows about yet, and translators will sudddenly become more important?

But yeah, regarding the title : What we say as GM is never as clear to the players as we think they are. So asking "Are you sure you jump? Because I described a 100m wide chasm. Twice." is always a good idea.

EDIT : So yeah, the TL:DR of my wall of text is "what Segev and Torath said". :smallbiggrin:

Thrudd
2018-08-02, 01:26 PM
He apparently didn't pay attention to whatever it was you told him about the setting. Tell him that languages and translating aren't really going to be a thing that you deal with in your campaign. He can design another character. That's all you need to do.

denthor
2018-08-02, 02:14 PM
Just because a language is translated does not mean interpretation is correct


Star Trek next generation had an episode where flowery language is used.

Juliet on the balcony. What does that mean to you?

If you are unfamiliar with the play it is a meaningless phrase. To the aliens it is relevant.

Thrudd
2018-08-02, 02:57 PM
Just because a language is translated does not mean interpretation is correct


Star Trek next generation had an episode where flowery language is used.

Juliet on the balcony. What does that mean to you?

If you are unfamiliar with the play it is a meaningless phrase. To the aliens it is relevant.

So be honest - if the GM told you that languages and translating would not be an issue in the game, would you focus your character's skill point on languages and translating? Just in case something like the Star Trek episode happened one time? You would have to think that the GM was giving you that information to trick you, and you're going to outsmart him by taking languages anyway.

awa
2018-08-02, 03:03 PM
ive never played star-finder but i thought it was a spinoff of pathfinder
Is it even possible to make a character who just does languages? Is it not a class based system?

Andor13
2018-08-02, 03:14 PM
Given that the player ignored you during character creation, and is a frequent no-show, I wouldn't worry. If he wants to refocus his character, let him, otherwise ignore him.

And as others have said, how would you even build a Starfinder character so that languages are all that they do? The system doesn't encourage that kind of over specialization.

Yes, of course you can give him the occasional moment to shine, but honestly it sounds like a guy waking up during a road trip and complaining about being 5 miles from the ski resort when he thought you were going to the beach.

Arbane
2018-08-02, 03:17 PM
ive never played star-finder but i thought it was a spinoff of pathfinder
Is it even possible to make a character who just does languages? Is it not a class based system?

It is class-based, but it's not hard to max out Linguistics to speak a lot of different languages.

Segev
2018-08-02, 03:31 PM
It is class-based, but it's not hard to max out Linguistics to speak a lot of different languages.

The point is more: doesn't he have other abilities by simple virtue of the class he runs giving them to him?



That said, if he's not having fun, let him build a new character or rebuild this one. If he's not having a problem...don't worry about it?

Jay R
2018-08-02, 03:45 PM
IN the early stages of character creation, when he's running his ideas by you, you need to say, "There's no point to being an interpreter. You all have Universal Translators."

Si I assume what was missing was the business of lots of back-and-forth between GM and palyers during character creation.

NOTHING will keep this from recurring except having lots of back-and-forth discussion during character creation.

The Jack
2018-08-02, 03:58 PM
Translators are probably not perfect. There's so many idioms/regional variations and such that you just wouldn't understand even if you got all the words right, IE "knocked it out of the park" or "all eight directions" or "that's just great" or "football". Would translators pick up ancient stuff written on stone tablets?


I can see some merit in it, but if your player wants it to be hyper-useful, in a world where you warned explicitly that it's not, then I wouldn't want the player, honestly.

Reversefigure4
2018-08-02, 04:13 PM
There's one thing that can be done : When they pitch a character that doesn't fit (or do something that sounds stupid), warn them again.

Pretty much this. If they really want to play a character who is allocated stupidly, it's well worth double-warning them once the character is presented. It depends how you present your information - it's easy to miss the Universal Translator single paragraph in amongst the 10 pages of prep document.

When they hand in a character, check it. If it doesn't fit, ban it, alter it, or at least warn the player.
"I notice you're playing a dwarf, but in this setting dwarves don't exist. Please change the race."
"I notice your character has no social skills. This is a political campaign, heavy on them. You'll be left out of or useless in a lot of scenes. Are you sure you want to do that?"
"I notice your character is heavily built around using a greataxe, but this is a gladiator campaign where you have to use a bunch of different weapons. Spread your competencies more, please."

In a campaign that has a simple feature that invalidates Linguistics as a skill, I'd suggest that Linguistics is less useful. You might look at changing it to 2 Languages per skill point (effectively halving the skill spend necessary)... but whether you want to bother for a player who doesn't actually show up to most of the sessions is up to you.

MonkeySage
2018-08-02, 04:13 PM
He never told me until now that being an interpreter was a big deal to him, but it is also his opinion and not mine, that universal translators ruin his concept.

And for some odd reason, even though I never said anything to even hint at this, he got it in his head that I told him there were no new species to discover- That is.... the exact opposite of what I said. In fact, I've been writing a bunch of entirely new species, and my players will encounter one when they land on their next planet.

mephnick
2018-08-02, 04:24 PM
If he doesn't want to re-roll his character then make the ability useful from time to time. There must be planets with weird electrical disturbances that knock out all their tech and force them to make do with their natural skills. There must be races and communities that think this tech is demonic and won't deal with someone using them. Yes, it's your job to challenge the players, but it's also your job to let their abilities shine as they solve those challenges. If one of your players doesn't like the universal translators and the other players likely don't give a ****...maybe just get rid of them sometimes? You've got a player who's desired goal is to replace your translators so let him replace them because they are no longer integral to the game.

War_lord
2018-08-02, 06:11 PM
And for some odd reason, even though I never said anything to even hint at this, he got it in his head that I told him there were no new species to discover- That is.... the exact opposite of what I said. In fact, I've been writing a bunch of entirely new species, and my players will encounter one when they land on their next planet.

Assuming the "universal translator" works by superscience and not magic, it does kinda imply that every possible language has been discovered. But that's besides the point. You've got a player who A. frequently fails to show up, B. built their entire character around a skill that, I assume you warned the group during character creation, was being handwaved. C. is now putting words in your mouth and D. only seems interested in picking a fight with you instead of changing builds or compromising. If I was in your situation I'd be asking myself this person is really worth accommodating given their behavior and absenteeism.

EDIT: Also given the traits he has displayed thus far, I'm kinda suspicious that the reason he wants to be the group's sole translator is to make the game all about him.

Verappo
2018-08-02, 08:14 PM
All the above are great suggestions, but if you want to go for the fun and frustrating horror movie option you could make it so each translator somehow gets broken one by one by external forces, either by accident or if there's some villain who wants to make sure they cannot communicate.

That or a force field interfeers with the translator's signal. Either way the player gets a chance to shine

Algeh
2018-08-02, 10:15 PM
For a new Starfinder game, I made it very clear to all of my players that the company they work for has fitted their uniforms with Universal Translators.


I had a player who built his entire character around being an interpreter, for when they encounter a species they don't share a language with.


Is it my fault as a GM that this player feels like his entire build is invalidated by this feature? I'll also note that of all the game nights I've ran for this over the past several months, he's attended maybe a handful of them. Which is fine, they have a starship and his absence can easily be explained as him just staying on the ship... But I feel like, even if he missed the part about there being universal translators, he'd have picked up on that fact sooner if he attended more games.

I feel like the people advising you to add in special "translator plotlines" may not be considering the frequent absences part of this situation enough. I recommend strongly against designing plots or scenarios that only work if so-and-so is there to play their character if so-and-so doesn't show up very often. Otherwise, you end up repeatedly back-burnering it when they don't show up. This probably matters less if you're playing a "planet of the week" type game where you can just haul out that particular folder of prep the next time he shows up without it stalling the overall direction of the game, but it's still a frustrating situation to be in.

It sounds like this person just doesn't listen carefully and isn't really invested in the specific game going on but rather the thing he'd like to be doing, which doesn't happen to be a good fit for the game you have going on. I agree with the folks who suggested letting him rebuild with a new concept that actually fits the game you (and the other people who are showing up regularly) are playing.

Also, if he thought you needed a translator (his PC) when meeting aliens, what did he think everyone else would do to solve those language problems when he isn't there? If his character's niche had actually been as important as he thought it was, he'd have been really hurting the sessions he didn't attend...

mephnick
2018-08-02, 11:12 PM
I feel like the people advising you to add in special "translator plotlines" may not be considering the frequent absences part of this situation enough.

I did forget that he was playing Starfinder (which I'm assuming is just Pathfinder in space) and not a more open, fluid game. In that case I agree not to waste prep time on someone who doesn't show up regularly.

Saintheart
2018-08-03, 12:08 AM
I've got to say, the entire idea of a translator-based PC in the game makes me roll my eyes a bit.

Don't get me wrong, I love the idea of translation difficulties in fictional works. Masking information behind an inability to communicate can be transformative on a plot. It can even be used in horror settings - consider the lines when they first capture Anna in the film Predator and then Hawkins gets taken:


Anna: Ya te he dicho todo lo que se, la selva se lo llevó. qué más quieres que te diga!
Poncho: She says the jungle ... it came alive and took him.
Dillon: That's not what she said at all! What she said doesn't make any sense.

And that line is just left hanging. This ups the dread considerably, because we think off Dillon's line that Anna's implied something a lot more unnatural and/or more impossible, but we are not given a picture of what that is (if we don't speak Spanish. If we do, then Anna's line is basically "I've told you what I know, the jungle came alive and took him, what else do you want be to say?") Or if you want another use of it in fiction, try the cheap little way it's used in Event Horizon: one of the plot points rests on the fact the doomed ship's captain might have been saying "Liberatae mea, or "Save me", but by the end of the film it's realised that what the captain was actually saying was Liberatae e ex inferis, "Save yourself from hell."

And obviously it gets used as part of character development in films like Dances With Wolves or The Last Samurai.

But in RPG settings, I'm not convinced you can use it without turning the translator character into the pivot point for the whole campaign, and when they do, it's uninteresting. The simplest encounter is as has already been contemplated: specific encounters tailored to the translator PC. But these invariably are going to be binary: if he translates it right, the party succeeds due to his single skill alone. Yay, etc. But the only other way the guy can use it is to conceal knowledge from other characters and possibly other players, and in my personal view only sorrow lies down that path. It's a contrived way to roleplay, because if you're going to push suspension of disbelief, it basically means you have to take the translator player out of the room for every line of an interaction with a NPC whose language the rest of the party doesn't speak. If not that, you basically have to metagame it or OOC it along the lines of "He's annoyed with you, but none of you know that except the translator dude." And what are that guy's choices then? Either he translates faithfully to the party, or he doesn't. If he doesn't, and the party knows it, everyone in the room (as opposed to the party maybe) hates his guts. If he does translate it faithfully, it's just meaningless. This is a binary result that isn't much fun past the first encounter with the natives or the first time the translator humourously translates the chief's formal greeting as a formal request for conjugal relations.

Maybe a translator character could work better if the character's grasp on a given language is materially imperfect and he knows it - rather than his character's ability being "I speak fluent Berchantenese, check out my +8 modifier on that sucker", it's "Well, I read a Berchantenese-to-Markarpian phrasebook once, and I'm pretty damn good at translating Markarpian, so I can take a crack at this". This introduces tension to encounters or at least allows the translator character to avoid attracting everyone's annoyance if he doesn't (wilfully or not) get the translation right. It could even introduce some agency in that you can invite the hapless translator to interpret a given phrase from our Berchantenian tribal chief in one of two ways - one way, interpret it as aggressive greetings and therefore necessitating an aggressive response, which is high risk, but might get you through the negotiation faster - and the other, interpret it as a demand to submit, which will mean it'll take longer to get through the negotiation, but it's less risky. (Time being a real and apparent constraint, i.e. you need to get through Berchantenian territory reasonably fast because the star princess's convoy is passing through this region in 2 days' time, or some such.)

Widening the idea of translation out to include cultural mores as well as literal correctness probably makes these sorts of encounters easier to construct, but the trick is not just to turn those cultural mores into a sort of +6 when the universal translator gives you a +5, because then you're back with the same old binary result of either he correctly interprets the chief's picking his nose as a salute to those about to die, or he doesn't. The best course I suspect might be to introduce conflict between what the universal translator is saying the translation is and what the translator character believes the communication to mean given his long experience with the Berchantenese-to-Markarpian phrasebook. Because conflict and agency - I think - are what draw players in and keep them most engaged in a campaign. Conflict, after all, is the basis of all drama; even in that first example from Predator, we've got conflict between Pancho and Dillon about what Anna actually said.

icefractal
2018-08-03, 12:11 AM
I feel like the people advising you to add in special "translator plotlines" may not be considering the frequent absences part of this situation enough. I recommend strongly against designing plots or scenarios that only work if so-and-so is there to play their character if so-and-so doesn't show up very often.Heck, I'd advise against changing the premise like that even if the player was consistently there, unless the rest of the group was on board. The GM prefers (and the rest of the group is at least ok with, and may themselves prefer) a game where language is not a barrier. If I was a player in a such a campaign, made a social character without additional languages known, and then it turned out that was a problem because the presence of "translator guy" had made the universal translators become glitchy, I'd be annoyed.

Same thing, really, if the GM pitched a high-magic D&D game where mundane logistics was rarely an issue, we made characters based on that premise - and then somebody turned up with "wilderness survival man" and demanded that Rings of Sustenance, Goodberry, Bags of Holding, methods of flight, etc, etc all be removed because they were invalidating his concept.

Calthropstu
2018-08-03, 02:34 AM
So, pick a language in the real world for what your npc says.
Type what you want your npc to say into google translate.
Translate it to picked language.
Translate it back to english.
Say that.
Allow linguist to get real response.

Segev
2018-08-03, 11:50 AM
One way to use a linguist that doesn't require him to be gatekeeper of the translations is to have there be interesting facts about the structure of the language. Just because all the PCs understood what was said doesn't mean they got the transliterative puns, cultural references, or even subtle nuances. A simplistic version of it would be the alien saying, "Have a nice day," and the guy who's actually a linguist recognizing that the word-choice could also mean "May the Sun follow you to your death." In context, it usually means the positive well-wishing for this culture, but the tone and tenor of the body language, combined with some expression details that he knows due to his expertise in xenocommunication, makes him worried that this alien was being "clever" and either cursing at them subtly, or worse, suggesting there was a fiery doom in their near future.

More subtly, it can help with identifying cultural connections. It might be possible to determine that this new race is actually an off-shoot of a set of religious colonists who left a different race ages ago after a schism, but it's detectable because the word choices and linguistic structures are reminiscent of that other race's better-known branch.

Telok
2018-08-03, 04:44 PM
So in Stargrinder there are a few things to keep in mind.

First there's the culture skill. It's your knowledge(people, places, history, society, geography, economics, etc.) skill at the usual one rank per level. And apparently it gives a language per rank. So characters get race + common + int bonus + culture ranks languages. People get lots of languages.

Second there's the "ignore language" stuff. Telepathy is pretty common, the tech is generally cheap, spells to skip the issue are low level and long lasting. Plus if you use the official settings/adventures any npc/group that doesn't automatically speak common has some kind of bypass available. It's like environment hazards, they included them but they're so trivial to ignore that you have to change rules to make them matter.

Third is that almost nothing mechanically depends on language except the social skills and some envoy tricks, and I think there might be one feat that has anything to do with language at all. Everyone is roughly equal in combat as long as they take the dr = bab feat, have an 18+ attack stat, and take weapon focus plus the feats to get better than basic melee & pistols (if they need to).

So the guy's "I translate words" isn't relevant. But it's such a minor and optional aspect of the game that it's not a big deal. Especially since he couldn't really spend too much in character resources on it.

AtlasSniperman
2018-08-03, 06:41 PM
I think it's interesting that everyone's basically explaining the character role arc of Daniel Jackson in response to this thread. Started out as on board as a translator. As the story progressed and they found more and more cultures speaking english, Daniel started taking more of an anthropological role. Studying the cultures and their laws and taking a most diplomatic role.

Language influences thought. The words available to your language are the concepts you can use to think. A translator knows more than just how sentences are put together and what words mean, they understand the ways and limits that a person can think in.

I would recommend allowing him to gain a bonus on Sense Motive, Diplomacy, and Intimidate checks when talking to someone he shares a language with, even if the universal translator is making them speak the same language anyway. He understands people at a more intrinsic level than his allies can.

Darth Ultron
2018-08-04, 12:03 AM
I think it's interesting that everyone's basically explaining the character role arc of Daniel Jackson in response to this thread.

Also, in both a TV show or a RPG, doing the whole ''interpreting unknown languages is a huge waste of time. "

It's really bad enough for a DM, to say in English-"OK, the orc is speaking in Ork, so no one can under stand the orc except Bob's character". Then the DM says, in English "Me orc will attack as you are good guys" and all the other players have to pretend they did not hear that...and just sit there. Then Bob will turn to the other players and have ''his character translate what the orc said" that everyone already heard.

It's worse if the game has a check, where Bob needs to roll like a 10, with a +22 modifier.

This is why both TV shows and RPGs just skip it.

The Fury
2018-08-04, 12:00 PM
I don't agree that the existence of universal translators would necessarily mean that no one would bother to learn languages. I mean, there are universal translators in the Star Trek universe, and they conveniently allow our heroes to speak to aliens from both the Delta and Gamma quadrants in order to make the plot go. People, or rather folks from Starfleet, still take the time to learn different languages, though it's to help sell how enlightened they are. And in fairness, learning a different language is useful for developing a broader perspective and could be useful in diplomatic situations in ways that a universal translator wouldn't.

I'm not sure how relevant this would be in Starfinder or how willing players would be to spend skill points on something that just implies a character trait, but hey.

Telok
2018-08-05, 12:53 AM
Because it's pazio's starfinder for this instance here's the language/culture skill


Culture (Int; Trained Only)
You are a student of the vast number of known cultures in the galaxy, and you have a deep and rich understanding of the undercurrents of cultures and language in general. Each time you take a rank in Culture, you learn to speak and read a new language. See Languages for a list of common languages.

The uses of the skill are recall knowledge (DCs easy:5, average:15, and difficult:20 to 30) and decipher writing (DCs simple:20, standard:25, and "intricate exotic or old":30)

Characters speak Common, their racial language, their homeworld language, and their Int bonus in additional languages. There's a 475 credit potion (costs about the same as a first level rifle or sword) that gives +2 on diplomacy/bluff and allows the user to comprehend any one language heard within the last ten minutes, effect lasts an hour. Comprehend Languages is a first level spell that covers all languages in all forms for 10 minutes per caster level (including computer languages), it can also be picked up as a level/3 times a day ability for a feat at fifth level. Share Language is a first level spell that shares with another person three of your languages for 24 hours. Both spells can be bought in potion form too.

Luccan
2018-08-05, 02:49 AM
Who is at fault isn't really relevant. At some point, there was a breakdown in communication. There are a few ways to prevent it in the future. One, vet character concepts in the future. Even if you can't go through the whole build process with them, before someone officially joins your game, you should know what they plan to make. And get verbal confirmation they understand any peculiarities of your setting or houserules. I don't think this was your fault and this player doesn't attend much, but if only to save yourself the headache in the future, I'd at least try to know the basic idea before letting a character join your game

Calthropstu
2018-08-05, 04:04 AM
Who is at fault isn't really relevant. At some point, there was a breakdown in communication. There are a few ways to prevent it in the future. One, vet character concepts in the future. Even if you can't go through the whole build process with them, before someone officially joins your game, you should know what they plan to make. And get verbal confirmation they understand any peculiarities of your setting or houserules. I don't think this was your fault and this player doesn't attend much, but if only to save yourself the headache in the future, I'd at least try to know the basic idea before letting a character join your game

Agreed. Playing the blame game after the fact isn't likely to hel. Future prevention is more important a focus.

Solaris
2018-08-07, 07:05 PM
Agreed. Playing the blame game after the fact isn't likely to hel. Future prevention is more important a focus.

Which is why it's useful to determine whether the player screwed up by not paying attention when the GM was making mouth-noises at him, or the GM screwed up by making insufficient mouth-noises at the player.
A player who knew all of this going in, and still bitched about his 'terp being invalid as a concept, is much different from a player who didn't.

Mordaedil
2018-08-08, 06:42 AM
You have a translator PC and a universal translation device, clearly what you could do is combine the two to make the tool more powerful.

Say that the universal translator is mostly programmed with known and modern languages in mind, so when you stumble across primitive or new civilizations or ancient ruins, the translator no longer works, and the translator gets to work deciphering the language, updating the software for everyone to allow them to interact with things normally, but it's all thanks to his efforts and know-how that they are able to do this.

awa
2018-08-08, 07:16 AM
I dont know, if I were one of the other players I might get annoyed so to speak if my compass and map broke the moment someone took ranks in survival. Particularly if he then failed to show up for a session and we got lost.

Mordaedil
2018-08-09, 12:54 AM
I dont know, if I were one of the other players I might get annoyed so to speak if my compass and map broke the moment someone took ranks in survival. Particularly if he then failed to show up for a session and we got lost.
There's more to survival than figuring out what direction north is. And survival can also make full use of a compass better than someone without survival.

awa
2018-08-09, 09:03 AM
True survival is a better skill then speak language, because speak language doesn't have any of that, so we are basically taking a device that perfectly solved the problem before and adding weakness that never previously existed because now someone took a skill.

MonkeySage
2018-08-09, 03:23 PM
The way these translators work, they are able to translate a number of spoken languages that the Republic has never been exposed to. They can't translate Spirit Folk, the language of outsiders, but alien languages are normally within the limits of the translator. This translator is actually a form of advanced magitech.

So, person A speaks Ysoki and person B speaks Rawbhain.

For the sake of argument, neither speaks common, but one of them is equipped with the UT, in this case the Ysoki.

So, when the Ysoki speaks, the rawbhain hears rawbhain. When the rawbhain speaks to the ysoki, the ysoki hears ysoki.

Cluedrew
2018-08-09, 04:46 PM
This translator is actually a form of advanced magitech.For when technobabble and magababble fall short use both.

Actually if any form of telepathy, especially ones that allow the communication of more raw concepts instead of words, it is not actually that far fetched. At least not in addition to that. In fact if you assume the level of variation in aliens and languages you might see in, say, Star Trek you could probably spin quite a reasonable explanation with known languages, some soft brain scanning (or projecting with three different languages in the room), reverse engineering details based on biology and smart computer figuring out how to combine them.