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drogan
2018-08-02, 06:02 PM
Butter is 2 sp per pound a player wants to buy 2000 pounds of butter how much should i charge

Rynjin
2018-08-02, 06:17 PM
2x2 = 4

Now add the zeroes back on

Keltest
2018-08-02, 06:23 PM
Nothing. Nobody has that much butter sitting around, even if they do ordinarily sell the stuff.

drogan
2018-08-02, 06:36 PM
they want to make a butter golem

Keltest
2018-08-02, 06:52 PM
they want to make a butter golem

I cannot begin to list all of the problems with that idea.

Kish
2018-08-02, 07:52 PM
I think butter is a thing where the amount people are willing and able to sell would be a hard limit, one that they can't be bribed to increase. So either you charge 4000 silver--whatever that translates to in your current edition (in 3.5, it would be 40 platinum). Or you tell the player that no one has that much butter on hand and make them travel the length and breadth of the continent buying as much butter as is for sale in various places. (Or you tell them up front that they can't make a butter golem and see if that dissuades them.)

spectralphoenix
2018-08-02, 09:08 PM
Don't get too wrapped up in figuring out rules for this stuff. The question you need to answer is do you want to let him make a butter golem. If you do, just say it has the same stats as a flesh golem (maybe less DR and fire weakness but some kind of grease effect?) and costs the same with the same requirements to make (the butter is only a small part of the total cost - all kinds of magic ingredients are necessary.) If you're feeling questy, maybe he has to find and milk a half-fiend dire cow to get the cream to form the Heartbutter that makes it tick.

If you don't want him making a butter golem? Then he can't make a butter golem, and the lack of refrigeration in the pseudomedieval era means he'll be very unpopular with his neighbors if he spends more than an afternoon trying. But just tell him it's impossible up front - tell him he can't get enough butter and he'll find a way to get enough butter.

Algeh
2018-08-02, 09:28 PM
I think butter is a thing where the amount people are willing and able to sell would be a hard limit, one that they can't be bribed to increase.

This also makes sense to me in most settings. If butter comes from milk, and milk comes from cows, it's not something you can change your production level of on a dime since making more cows takes time. Most places would only have enough dairy cows for their regular needs, and not produce much surplus since it wouldn't store well and it's perishable.

Given modern food preservation methods, a large butter stockpile is certainly possible (I'm pretty sure I could buy 2000 pounds of butter by driving to enough grocery stores in a major metro area in real life), but that doesn't fit with the typical "fake medieval" D&D setting in terms of scale.

A determined adventurer with suitable extra-dimensional storage space should be able to build their own butter stockpile for this purpose by buying up excess butter in every town they pass through for a while. At higher levels, I suppose they could do so quickly by teleporting to various towns and cities on market days over a large region, which makes me want to think about D&D economic/trade in ways that would break things, so I'll stop there.

A sufficiently high-level adventurer in a sufficiently-silly campaign where a butter golem wouldn't be out of place to start with should be able to accomplish this by teleporting to the Only-Vaguely-Elemental Plane of Dairy and harvesting the needed butter there through a series of suitable encounters, of course.

LibraryOgre
2018-08-02, 10:20 PM
Nothing. Nobody has that much butter sitting around, even if they do ordinarily sell the stuff.

You say this, but it was not uncommon in medieval Iceland to pay church tithes in butter. One bishop was estimated to have several tons of it in storage.

Kaptin Keen
2018-08-03, 12:45 AM
Players pay a fortune for huge amounts of butter. Go through much rigamarole and arcanery to enchant said butter to create a golem. Golem melts in the sun.

The end.

Keltest
2018-08-03, 07:58 AM
You say this, but it was not uncommon in medieval Iceland to pay church tithes in butter. One bishop was estimated to have several tons of it in storage.

Im going to want to see a citation on that. Butter doesn't store that well even with the refrigeration available to them at the time, and as noted producing extra is a non-trivial task.

GloatingSwine
2018-08-03, 09:41 AM
I cannot begin to list all of the problems with that idea.

If you gave your top five, you'd probably hit at least three of the reasons a player would want to do it.

LibraryOgre
2018-08-03, 09:57 AM
Im going to want to see a citation on that. Butter doesn't store that well even with the refrigeration available to them at the time, and as noted producing extra is a non-trivial task.

I'm looking, but it's been 20 years.

GloatingSwine
2018-08-03, 10:08 AM
Taxes and tithes in Iceland were commonly paid in butter, cheese, livestock and other farm products (https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=A4S6Bnw3HnkC&pg=PA80&lpg=PA80&dq=butter+tithe+iceland+medieval&source=bl&ots=Fy03h7TFzR&sig=cIiJE0h65ilE6QAVZRxxj-8ISGU&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjjrtT9k9HcAhWKJ8AKHcU7BZIQ6AEwCHoECAcQA Q#v=onepage&q=butter%20tithe%20iceland%20medieval&f=false)

Insufficient precious metals to produce coinage, so produce was currency (standardised around the weight of a certain length of cloth).

Keltest
2018-08-03, 10:17 AM
Taxes and tithes in Iceland were commonly paid in butter, cheese, livestock and other farm products (https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=A4S6Bnw3HnkC&pg=PA80&lpg=PA80&dq=butter+tithe+iceland+medieval&source=bl&ots=Fy03h7TFzR&sig=cIiJE0h65ilE6QAVZRxxj-8ISGU&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjjrtT9k9HcAhWKJ8AKHcU7BZIQ6AEwCHoECAcQA Q#v=onepage&q=butter%20tithe%20iceland%20medieval&f=false)

Insufficient precious metals to produce coinage, so produce was currency (standardised around the weight of a certain length of cloth).

Ok, paying in butter along with other produce and goods seems a lot more plausible to me. Im still not sure I believe that thing with the bishop though. Butter doesn't have a long enough shelf life even refrigerated for that much butter to stay viable for very long.

Psyren
2018-08-03, 11:26 AM
1) What system? Construct creation rules vary widely.

2) Finding sufficient people "willing and able to sell butter" may also be unnecessary depending on system, due to spells like Fabricate or Major/True Creation.

3) Some kind of fire vulnerability seems appropriate, like a Wax Golem has.

Algeh
2018-08-03, 01:23 PM
Ok, paying in butter along with other produce and goods seems a lot more plausible to me. Im still not sure I believe that thing with the bishop though. Butter doesn't have a long enough shelf life even refrigerated for that much butter to stay viable for very long.

Butter keeps for a very long time frozen, though, so if that was a possibility in Iceland in that era it would change ease of storage considerably. I don't know if Iceland has a permafrost layer like Alaska does that lets you basically build a freezer by digging a basement deep enough, though.

LibraryOgre
2018-08-03, 08:04 PM
Taxes and tithes in Iceland were commonly paid in butter, cheese, livestock and other farm products (https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=A4S6Bnw3HnkC&pg=PA80&lpg=PA80&dq=butter+tithe+iceland+medieval&source=bl&ots=Fy03h7TFzR&sig=cIiJE0h65ilE6QAVZRxxj-8ISGU&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjjrtT9k9HcAhWKJ8AKHcU7BZIQ6AEwCHoECAcQA Q#v=onepage&q=butter%20tithe%20iceland%20medieval&f=false)

Insufficient precious metals to produce coinage, so produce was currency (standardised around the weight of a certain length of cloth).

And Jesse Byock was someone I read a lot of back then.

Keltest
2018-08-03, 08:41 PM
Butter keeps for a very long time frozen, though, so if that was a possibility in Iceland in that era it would change ease of storage considerably. I don't know if Iceland has a permafrost layer like Alaska does that lets you basically build a freezer by digging a basement deep enough, though.

Iceland is volcanic, so while it does get cold in winter as per the rest of the Nordic regions, dig too deep and you actually get warmer, not colder.

veti
2018-08-05, 01:59 AM
Four words: Create Food & Water. Of course it will go off quickly, but frankly that's going to be just as big a problem with normal butter.

Kareeah_Indaga
2018-08-05, 02:16 PM
Ok, paying in butter along with other produce and goods seems a lot more plausible to me. Im still not sure I believe that thing with the bishop though. Butter doesn't have a long enough shelf life even refrigerated for that much butter to stay viable for very long.

An icehouse (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_house_(building)) is something I would think would be doable in a medival setting, especially a world with magic.

Pleh
2018-08-05, 02:30 PM
Do the players have Exotic Butter Proficiency?

The Glyphstone
2018-08-05, 02:32 PM
And what kind of butter are we talking? Butter made from cow or goat milk is probably normal, but what if your butter comes from displacer beast milk or something similarly weird/magical?

Kareeah_Indaga
2018-08-05, 02:41 PM
And what kind of butter are we talking? Butter made from cow or goat milk is probably normal, but what if your butter comes from displacer beast milk or something similarly weird/magical?

Now I want to see a golem made from displacer beast butter. :smalltongue:

Mendicant
2018-08-05, 02:57 PM
Now I want to see a golem made from displacer beast butter. :smalltongue:

I'm sure watching someone milk a displacer beast would be quite the show. Does the milk get displaced too? Either the milk appears to come out of thin air or it looks like the milker is doing mime.

Stan
2018-08-05, 03:06 PM
I'm sure watching someone milk a displacer beast would be quite the show. Does the milk get displaced too? Either the milk appears to come out of thin air or it looks like the milker is doing mime.

"What are you doing? NO! Don't pull on That!"


The original question is one of supply and demand. To provide a bigger demand, the price will go up, to account shipping it in from nearby towns, using magic, etc. They'll cause a price spike. So, it'd be at least 1000 gp, maybe twice that.

Telok
2018-08-05, 05:00 PM
Storage time depends on heat, humidity, and pests. I've got butter sitting in a dish on my kitchen counter that's going on it's third week and is doing just fine. Of course I'm in a place with low humidity, where three days of 75 ℉ temps is a heatwave, and the block is in a heavy ceramic dish that's functionally self sealing.

Seal the butter in some jars and store it in a stream or river. If you use a glacier fed water source then hotter weather gets you more cold water.

I would totally green-light the golem. Because it gives me an excuse to make a toast golem.

Waffle golem?

Epimethee
2018-08-05, 06:01 PM
Actually, and of course according to climate, production and mode of conservation, making butter, just like cheese, was a way of lenghtening the life of dairy products : Look at the bog butter or the north african smen that could last for many years( here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smen).

Mr Beer
2018-08-05, 07:08 PM
Less than 4000sp because bulk buying should get a discount.

Butter golem sounds great, I would definitely allow this. While vulnerable to hot knives, they are better at swimming than the more traditional golems.

Xuc Xac
2018-08-05, 07:48 PM
Less than 4000sp because bulk buying should get a discount.

Counterpoint: More than 4000sp because nobody has that much available for purchase in bulk. The more you buy and stockpile, the more you'll have to pay because you're driving up demand and driving down the local supply. The last pound will be much more expensive than the first pound you buy.

TheStranger
2018-08-05, 08:20 PM
Counterpoint: More than 4000sp because nobody has that much available for purchase in bulk. The more you buy and stockpile, the more you'll have to pay because you're driving up demand and driving down the local supply. The last pound will be much more expensive than the first pound you buy.

Counter-counterpoint: 2,000 pounds is a lot of butter for one person to buy, but it isn't actually all that much in the bigger picture. In a large city, that's probably a day's worth of butter (if the average person uses a 1/4 lb. stick of butter in a week, 54,000 people will use 2,000 lbs. in a day). In a city, most of that butter will be bought at market, so while it might take a few days, it's not out of the question to buy 2,000 lbs. before it starts to spoil. The overall impact on the butter economy should be minimal, although a few housewives will find their baking plans frustrated if they get to market late.

In a smaller community, it gets harder to buy any commodity on a large scale. If you have some means of storage, though, you could probably do it over time. You might have to pay a slight premium to get farm families to sell you their butter instead of using it themselves, but overall it shouldn't be particularly difficult. And the storage shouldn't be too difficult - icehouses, springhouses, and root cellars are all real things that would let butter keep for weeks, if not months. And in a temperate climate, probably half the year is cold enough that butter won't spoil anyway.

All things considered, I wouldn't worry about it too much. If I were the DM, and I were willing to allow a butter golem in my game, I would let the player buy it at list price (as has been noted, if you don't want a butter golem, just tell him no). Then I would add additional costs for other materials, so that the total cost was in line with creating other golems. You can't just animate a lump of butter - you have to imbue it with rare herbs first (some people recommend indica strains, but YMMV). Then you have to find an artisan with ranks in craft: butter sculpture.

But really - you're fine with your player making a butter golem, but you're concerned with the realism of the supply chain? :smallconfused:

RazorChain
2018-08-05, 08:38 PM
To make 2000 pounds of butter which is around 900 Kilograms. You can get around 70 grams of butter from 1 liter of milk, so you need 12857 liters of milk, given that it's quasi medieval times and the yield of cow's milk has doubled from 12 liters to 24 liters a day per cow the last 50 years, so let's just say a cow can produce 12 liters per day.

This means the OP only needs a days worth of milk from 1070 cows to produce his 2000 pounds of butter. This isn't undoable. Then you just cast fabricate on the milk to produce butter!

Cluedrew
2018-08-05, 09:14 PM
But really - you're fine with your player making a butter golem, but you're concerned with the realism of the supply chain? :smallconfused:As someone who has:
Worked wuxia style martial arts into evolving gender politics.
Debated plausible social impacts of flying islands.
Repeated re-written aspects of society to show the effects of family size and sleeping arrangements.
Explained why this alien's unusual life-cycle makes them great diplomats.
Created a story around a super-powered UN-like peacekeeping force and the politics involved.
Outlined a martial arts school that produced superhuman firefighters.
And more...
YES!

TheStranger
2018-08-05, 09:26 PM
YES!

Just checking. :smallbiggrin:

Christian
2018-08-05, 09:44 PM
Players pay a fortune for huge amounts of butter. Go through much rigamarole and arcanery to enchant said butter to create a golem. Golem melts in the sun.

The end.

Nope, just the opening chapter.

Next time, they'll make a better butter golem.

Goaty14
2018-08-05, 10:57 PM
You should totally let him do this (coz it'd be a great adventure hook), the Calzone Golem (http://www.albinjohnson.com/d&d/resources/downloaded%20adventures/2%20-%20Cooking.pdf) (Calzone = Folded Pizza), and enlisting the Githyanki Crafting Guild somewhere along the way.


At higher levels, I suppose they could do so quickly by teleporting to various towns and cities on market days over a large region, which makes me want to think about D&D economic/trade in ways that would break things, so I'll stop there.

...You don't have to think about that, Enter: The Tippyverse (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?222007-The-Definitive-Guide-to-the-Tippyverse-By-Emperor-Tippy). I think that's enough thread derailing for now, though.

Keltest
2018-08-05, 10:58 PM
Nope, just the opening chapter.

Next time, they'll make a better butter golem.

Which will melt in the sun.

So they'll make another, which will burn down, fall over and sink into the swamp melt to some horrific combination of high temperature causes.


But the fourth one will stay cohesive! And that's the Butter Golem they will pass on down to their musical children.

oxybe
2018-08-05, 11:03 PM
I cannot begin to list all of the problems with that idea.

Counterpoint: Pancake golem. You need a Butter golem to grapple with it so you can properly throw your Alchemist's Maple Syrup and get a +4 breakfast bonus when your cleric cast Summon Eggs & OJ.+

Mr Beer
2018-08-05, 11:29 PM
Counterpoint: More than 4000sp because nobody has that much available for purchase in bulk. The more you buy and stockpile, the more you'll have to pay because you're driving up demand and driving down the local supply. The last pound will be much more expensive than the first pound you buy.

I'm not sure about that. You don't buy bulk butter one stick at a time, you buy barrels of the stuff, as one would to provision a castle or an army or a ship. Even if you can only buy a barrel here or there, thus potentially inflating the price if you're shopping in one area, you don't start by paying retail price...you're buying wholesale.

Mr Beer
2018-08-05, 11:31 PM
Now if you're making butter golems, you should consider making your flesh golems out of fresh plucked chickens. In an emergency you can deep fry your flesh golem in your melted butter golem and make delicious chicken for all.

Also your chicken flesh golem will look terrifying, so there's that.

Mordaedil
2018-08-06, 03:05 AM
Butter is 2 sp per pound a player wants to buy 2000 pounds of butter how much should i charge

0.2gp/lb x 2000 lbs = 400gp base price. Use an appraisal check (DC 12) from the player to determine the final outcome. Success means they get it on the money, on a failure, roll 2d6 + 3 * 10% to determine the newly estimated price and perform a contested check from the various suppliers he purchases from. Estimate a rough 100 lbs per supplier, I would say (or use a creative roll to determine how many contested checks). Greater price is the one that gets through, disfavoring the players.

Berenger
2018-08-07, 03:48 AM
Convince a witch to milk-rob the cattle of a few villages on your behalf. :D


by Myrdal, Janken: Women and Cows – Ownership and Work in Medieval Sweden, 2008, p. 74
http://www.agrarhistoria.se/pdf/Women_and_Cows.pdf

Other images of dairy keeping are found in fresco paintings on church walls, in a cycle of pictures. They show the woman who, aided by the devil, “steals” cream from neighbours so she can make large quantities of butter. According to the magical belief system of the time, a cow that unexpectedly went dry had been “milk robbed.” There is an entire course of events in the cycle, which is not, however, found in its entirety in all churches: (1) milking or milk theft involving various magical animals, (2) churning, (3) preparation of the butter, (4) shaping of the butter into a conical pile or loaf on a special butter platter (for a banquet), and (5) the woman’s punishment when she is sent to hell. The demons are all over the pictures.

Maelynn
2018-08-07, 06:19 AM
*player looks at standard golem creation*

Anything you can do I can do butter. I have the technology. I can make it butter, stronger.

Quertus
2018-08-08, 11:37 AM
So, I agree with charging them the listed price of 200gp.

By RAW, 200 gp worth of butter would be available most anywhere.

By common sense, 2000 lbs of butter would be obtainable anywhere that 4,000 gallons of milk could be produced over the length of time butter could be stored.

By historical accuracy, even frozen goods could be stored almost indefinitely even without magic.

By the books, if nothing else, the butter could be bought over a period of time, and Purify Food and Drink could be used to fix all the butter - which could arguably be bought at discount after it went bad - before the creation of the golem.

If all else fails, buy cheap slaves, Polymorp Any Object them into cattle, buy more slaves to milk them, profit! Your final cost will be some negative number.

Finally, I invoke the Giant in saying that making this obnoxious is not the way to go. Just charge them the list price, and move on (unless they are actually looking forward to the "round up, and store / purify the butter" minigame).

Berenger
2018-08-08, 02:22 PM
If all else fails, buy cheap slaves, Polymorp Any Object them into cattle, buy more slaves to milk them, profit! Your final cost will be some negative number.

I think we found the most horrible solution.

Piedmon_Sama
2018-08-08, 02:30 PM
they want to make a butter golem

So presumably if the butter is rancid, it doesn't matter right? Well then, you don't have to buy fresh butter---you can buy any unsold or unfit product from a shop or farm for coppers on the silver.... or w/e. Note that I'd say it takes a month and a half minimum to even gather this much butter, because in a premodern economy you're just not gonna have that much on hand even if you take fresh and rancid alike.

I'd say 1cp per lb of rancid butter, or IOW 20gp for all the butter you need for your gross golem. You can allay the smell/growth of poisonous molds (unless you WANT your butter golem to have mold spore attack!) by having a Cleric cast purify food and drink on the golem, foot by foot---assuming a 6' tall manshaped golem let's say your hired Cleric must cast the spell six times. In my version of D&D the cost for a hired spell is Caster Level x Spell Level (PF&D is lvl 0) x 10 gp -- so let's say you get a level 1 novice cleric to do this job, that's 80 gp on your butter golem project so far, not including additional materials (for example, some kind of adhesive to mix into the butter...... and whatever the cost is on Create Golem). Basically you have discovered how to make an ultra-cheap golem that is probably pathetically weak compared to any of the better-known ones.

Stat wise I'd treat as a somewhat weaker wax golem possibly with a diseased slam or ranged spore cloud attack. But good luck to you anyhow!

e: seems like I rushed to reply and other people have given much more thought-out answers than mine. Oh well. You have an idea of how I'd spitball it if pushed to think of something at the table, at any rate.

Quertus
2018-08-08, 02:33 PM
I think we found the most horrible solution.

Team Lawful Evil prefers to call it the most efficient business model. :smallwink:

If you have an issue with supply and demand, become the supply. Problem solved.

CharonsHelper
2018-08-08, 02:50 PM
Now I want to know how the butter golem would be statted!

I suggest a few special abilities -

I Can't Believe it IS Butter: You are shocked that anyone would put butter to such a diabolical use. DC 12 Will Save or be stunned for the first round you see the butter golem within 120ft.

Clogged Arteries: If you were hit by the butter golem, you absorb a massive amount of cholesterol. Unless you have Remove Disease cast, you have to make a DC 13 Fort Save every 1d4 years or die of a coronary.

tyckspoon
2018-08-08, 05:42 PM
If all else fails, buy cheap slaves, Polymorp Any Object them into cattle

Man-size lumps of butter. Why not just cut out the middlebeast? Should be Permanent, too - same Kingdom, class, size, lower intelligence. It'll last until you get your Golem made, at which point it's a part of a creature and its duration doesn't matter any more.

Quertus
2018-08-09, 07:18 PM
Man-size lumps of butter. Why not just cut out the middlebeast? Should be Permanent, too - same Kingdom, class, size, lower intelligence. It'll last until you get your Golem made, at which point it's a part of a creature and its duration doesn't matter any more.

Because, my way, the cost is negative - you make ongoing profits from your polymorphed slaves.

Also, because "milk or be milked!" just seemed like a cool threat. :smallwink:

RazorChain
2018-08-09, 09:48 PM
They managed to make a golem out of Marshmallow so butter shouldn't be much of a problem


https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/d/d8/Stay-puft-marshmallow-man.jpg/320px-Stay-puft-marshmallow-man.jpg

Saintheart
2018-08-10, 06:42 PM
This is possibly the greatest thread I have ever seen.

In all forums. Yes, all of them.

GrayDeath
2018-08-13, 09:51 AM
This thread made me smile. Really long.

Please keep coming up with stuff for it, I cant wait for more funny posts! ^^

sktarq
2018-08-14, 12:32 PM
Okay really guys...if someone can even look seriously at creating a butter golem they almost certainly have access to the gentle repose spell....heck it could be part of the requirements for enchanting the otherwise soon to be rancid thing. Or they would access to a cone of cold spell and could just freeze the whole damn thing until they are ready to start carving.

Decent sized city houses would likely by buying in 5 or 10 lb units for full staff or banquet issues....pick up a 100 lbs day for a month while you get all the weird oils etc

CharonsHelper
2018-08-14, 12:57 PM
...enchanting the otherwise soon to be rancid thing.

You're ASSUMING that being rancid isn't another advantage of a butter golem. Do YOU want to get close enough to hit it?

Maybe it should have a troglodyte style stench ability - requiring a Fortitude save to avoid being sickened.

Roland St. Jude
2018-08-14, 04:20 PM
Ok, paying in butter along with other produce and goods seems a lot more plausible to me. Im still not sure I believe that thing with the bishop though. Butter doesn't have a long enough shelf life even refrigerated for that much butter to stay viable for very long.
Jochens, Jenny M. Women in Old Norse Society. Ithaca: Cornell University Press. 1995.

"... large stores were accumulated, like gold, by wealthy landowners. By the time of the reformation the bishropic in Hólar possessed a mountain of butter [from tithes] calculated to weigh twenty-five tons." (Jochens, p. 128).

Also, salted butter, like most salted things, can be stored for a long time.

Erit
2018-08-14, 06:33 PM
I get the distinct impression someone indulges in too many Mount & Blade memes.

denthor
2018-08-14, 06:50 PM
Just curious

WHAT IS THIS THING GUARDIAN OF?

Mr Beer
2018-08-14, 08:04 PM
Just curious

WHAT IS THIS THING GUARDIAN OF?

The fabulous toast and crumpet trove of Archduchess Miggins.

Velaryon
2018-08-14, 10:32 PM
they want to make a butter golem

Suggest to the player that they make a margarine golem instead. Margarine is made primarily from vegetable oil, which should be a little easier to acquire in the quantities necessary and can also be stored for longer without spoiling.

:smallcool:

TheStranger
2018-08-14, 11:29 PM
Suggest to the player that they make a margarine golem instead. Margarine is made primarily from vegetable oil, which should be a little easier to acquire in the quantities necessary and can also be stored for longer without spoiling.

:smallcool:

I can't believe it's not a butter golem!

Saintheart
2018-08-14, 11:59 PM
Just curious

WHAT IS THIS THING GUARDIAN OF?

Afternoon Tea rituals.

There are few hours in life more agreeable than the hour dedicated to the ceremony known as afternoon tea.
--Henry James

Mr Beer
2018-08-15, 01:32 AM
You're ASSUMING that being rancid isn't another advantage of a butter golem. Do YOU want to get close enough to hit it?

Maybe it should have a troglodyte style stench ability - requiring a Fortitude save to avoid being sickened.

Maybe it should be a garlic butter golem. Stinky but delicious.


Suggest to the player that they make a margarine golem instead. Margarine is made primarily from vegetable oil, which should be a little easier to acquire in the quantities necessary and can also be stored for longer without spoiling.

:smallcool:

Yeah but while a giant ambulatory pile of rancid butter is unnerving, margarine, animated or otherwise is simply an abomination.

LibraryOgre
2018-08-15, 08:17 AM
Jochens, Jenny M. Women in Old Norse Society. Ithaca: Cornell University Press. 1995.

"... large stores were accumulated, like gold, by wealthy landowners. By the time of the reformation the bishropic in Hólar possessed a mountain of butter [from tithes] calculated to weigh twenty-five tons." (Jochens, p. 128).

Also, salted butter, like most salted things, can be stored for a long time.

This would almost definitely be where I read it, since I did a review of it during my undergrad. Thanks, Roland!

Quertus
2018-08-15, 08:36 AM
Right, so, how many butter golems can one make from an IRL established 25 ton benchmark?

And does the party have the Knowledge: Local to hit the DC, or the Gather Information to know who to ask?

RazorChain
2018-08-15, 02:16 PM
Jochens, Jenny M. Women in Old Norse Society. Ithaca: Cornell University Press. 1995.

"... large stores were accumulated, like gold, by wealthy landowners. By the time of the reformation the bishropic in Hólar possessed a mountain of butter [from tithes] calculated to weigh twenty-five tons." (Jochens, p. 128).

Also, salted butter, like most salted things, can be stored for a long time.

This may explain why Jón Arason the last bishop in Iceland made war on the rest of the country to stop the reformation. He was simply protecting his butter!!!! Funny fact though, he had seven sons and nobody lifted an eyebrow because being a catholic priest was mostly hereditary :smallbiggrin:


But I would definitely add some brown sugar and make a butterscotch golem instead

Erit
2018-08-15, 03:29 PM
But I would definitely add some brown sugar and make a butterscotch golem instead

Wait, butterscotch isn't made from butter and scotch? What trickery is this?

napoleon_in_rag
2018-08-15, 04:37 PM
they want to make a butter golem


Discourage them by having a nearby Wizard build a Toast Golem

Quertus
2018-08-15, 04:51 PM
Discourage them by having a nearby Wizard build a Toast Golem

Actually, I think the pun would be to have the butter golem grapple, and, every time it gets on top, declare "you're toast!"

LordEntrails
2018-08-16, 11:32 AM
Maybe it should be a garlic butter golem. Stinky but delicious.
And you could pair it with a toasted Sour Dough Boy!

liquidformat
2018-08-16, 01:54 PM
Like a lot of people have said it should be reasonable to buy that much butter in most large cities within a week if not within a day or two.

On to the important part, I think the flesh golem is a horrible starting point for making a butter golem. The butter golem would be amorphous at higher temperatures and hard at lower ones. I believe using an ooze as the base model would be a better and more accurate starting point.
- give it the amorphous trait like the Phasm
- immune to physical damage unless the environment is below a certain ambient temperature.
- normally doesn't deal any damage but when cold it gains a size equivolent slam attack
- engulf any creature its size or small as a standard action when it is in its normal oozy state.
- anyone engulfed by the butter golem gets a grease spell applied to all their equipment.
- anyone who escapes engulfing is sickened for x number of rounds due to too much lactose
- cold spells harden the golem and make it vulnerable to physical damage but deal no damage in and of themselves.
- fire spells deal normal damage to the golem because butter has a low smoke point, but also counter the hardening of cold spells and environment.
- swim and climb speed, butter is sticky and floats!
- Blindsight but blind!
- leaves a trail that functions as grease with caster level x when in normal oozy state.

Mr Beer
2018-08-16, 04:34 PM
On to the important part, I think the flesh golem is a horrible starting point for making a butter golem. The butter golem would be amorphous at higher temperatures and hard at lower ones. I believe using an ooze as the base model would be a better and more accurate starting point.

I find it strangely pleasing that this post is made by someone called 'liquidformat'.

awa
2018-08-17, 10:46 AM
Like a lot of people have said it should be reasonable to buy that much butter in most large cities within a week if not within a day or two.

On to the important part, I think the flesh golem is a horrible starting point for making a butter golem. The butter golem would be amorphous at higher temperatures and hard at lower ones. I believe using an ooze as the base model would be a better and more accurate starting point.
- give it the amorphous trait like the Phasm
- immune to physical damage unless the environment is below a certain ambient temperature.
- normally doesn't deal any damage but when cold it gains a size equivolent slam attack
- engulf any creature its size or small as a standard action when it is in its normal oozy state.
- anyone engulfed by the butter golem gets a grease spell applied to all their equipment.
- anyone who escapes engulfing is sickened for x number of rounds due to too much lactose
- cold spells harden the golem and make it vulnerable to physical damage but deal no damage in and of themselves.
- fire spells deal normal damage to the golem because butter has a low smoke point, but also counter the hardening of cold spells and environment.
- swim and climb speed, butter is sticky and floats!
- Blindsight but blind!
- leaves a trail that functions as grease with caster level x when in normal oozy state.

I really like this with one exception it should not be immune to bite attacks when soft

John Campbell
2018-08-17, 11:26 AM
Im going to want to see a citation on that. Butter doesn't store that well even with the refrigeration available to them at the time, and as noted producing extra is a non-trivial task.
Butter keeps fine at room temperature for months, at least. (source: my kitchen)


Butter golem sounds great, I would definitely allow this. While vulnerable to hot knives, they are better at swimming than the more traditional golems.
Traditional golems are actually awesome swimmers. Swim is a Strength-based skill, and the swimming rules don't take buoyancy into account except with the doubled Armor Check Penalty - which doesn't apply because golems don't wear armor. The greater stone golem is one of the best swimmers in the book, just on account of its extremely high Strength score. And being immune to drowning and fatigue doesn't hurt.

liquidformat
2018-08-17, 12:35 PM
Butter keeps fine at room temperature for months, at least. (source: my kitchen)


Traditional golems are actually awesome swimmers. Swim is a Strength-based skill, and the swimming rules don't take buoyancy into account except with the doubled Armor Check Penalty - which doesn't apply because golems don't wear armor. The greater stone golem is one of the best swimmers in the book, just on account of its extremely high Strength score. And being immune to drowning and fatigue doesn't hurt.

also they don't breath which is helpful...


I really like this with one exception it should not be immune to bite attacks when soft

This seems reasonable and would be the appropriate time to apply the 'Clogged Arteries' disease mentioned earlier! A passive disease that is applied when a creature tries to bite the butter golem or is engulfed.

DeTess
2018-08-17, 12:59 PM
This homebrew (https://dnd-wiki.org/wiki/Butter_Golem_(3.5e_Monster)) actually covers most of the things you're talking about. I mean, it's DnD-wiki stuff, so some balancing is required, but I thought I might link it anyway in case anyone was curious.

liquidformat
2018-08-17, 03:24 PM
This homebrew (https://dnd-wiki.org/wiki/Butter_Golem_(3.5e_Monster)) actually covers most of the things you're talking about. I mean, it's DnD-wiki stuff, so some balancing is required, but I thought I might link it anyway in case anyone was curious.

I am not sure what surprises me more, that someone already made a butter golem or that it is so similar to what I was thinking...

GreatWyrmGold
2018-08-18, 02:59 PM
As someone who has:
Worked wuxia style martial arts into evolving gender politics.
Debated plausible social impacts of flying islands.
Repeated re-written aspects of society to show the effects of family size and sleeping arrangements.
Explained why this alien's unusual life-cycle makes them great diplomats.
Created a story around a super-powered UN-like peacekeeping force and the politics involved.
Outlined a martial arts school that produced superhuman firefighters.
And more...
YES!
...
Do you have a blog? Not only do most of those sound fascinating to me, I want to see other writing/worldbuilding things you've thought of.



Also your chicken flesh golem will look terrifying, so there's that.

Also, because "milk or be milked!" just seemed like a cool threat. :smallwink:

Right, so, how many butter golems can one make from an established 25 ton benchmark?
This thread is full of great out-of-context quotes.

Erit
2018-08-18, 03:46 PM
This thread is full of great out-of-context quotes.

I honestly want to sig a few of them. This thread is a thing of beauty.

The Glyphstone
2018-08-18, 04:40 PM
If you write an instructional manual about how to properly use the golem in combat, do you call it the Butter Battle Book?

Erit
2018-08-18, 05:10 PM
If you write an instructional manual about how to properly use the golem in combat, do you call it the Butter Battle Book?

The Better Butter Battle Brochure: Battery, Ballistics, Ballet and Bastardry.

Cluedrew
2018-08-18, 06:33 PM
...
Do you have a blog? Not only do most of those sound fascinating to me, I want to see other writing/worldbuilding things you've thought of.Honestly the thought never actually occurred to me until now. Or maybe it did and then I forgot. But right now I am focusing on... too many projects. The role-playing game one is a from scratch system that involves the floating islands and the culture built around that. For me the world building is the easy part, creating the mechanics has taken me years.

So yeah, I'm not going to be starting an role-playing blog any time soon. And if I ever do it will probably be on that system. Who knows, maybe a more general world building blog will exist some day. Thank-you for your interest though... maybe I should create a world building deep dive* thread of some sort.

Saintheart
2018-08-20, 09:42 AM
The Better Butter Battle Brochure: Battery, Ballistics, Ballet, Browning, Basting and Bastardry.

Fixed that for you.

Quertus
2018-08-20, 01:27 PM
If you write an instructional manual about how to properly use the golem in combat, do you call it the Butter Battle Book?

And if beetles battle with the butter that is bettered, it's the better beetle battle butter book.

And...

If the buyer of the butter that should battle with the beetles is a brownie that is bigger than the brothers from his mother, and he loves his butter battered before he puts it in a bottle, then

It's Big Brownie's Better Bottled Butter Batter Beetle Battle Book.

And...

Or is that not the tongue twister you were thinking of?

Maelynn
2018-08-20, 01:58 PM
And its name should be Bob.

redwizard007
2018-09-18, 08:15 PM
Can I someone stat this beast up?

Saintheart
2018-09-19, 02:29 AM
Can I someone stat whip this beast up?

Fixed that for you.