The Risks and Rewards of Rebuking an Undead Mindflayer

[BlackOnyx]

If a cleric necromancer (let's say 12th level or so) was to apply the bone creature or corpse creature template to a stock mindflayer, how useful/practical would they likely be as an "ally" in combat? (Assume rebuking as the method of control.)


Given their nature (sadistic, self-serving, and tricksy), would such an investment be too much of a risk? Could one be (reliably) convinced to cooperate (rebuking aside) with the right incentives? Would they still harbor "loyalties" to their cult/elder brain, even in undeath?

[Celestia]

A rebuke undead puts them under the cleric's total mental control. The personality and potential loyalties of commanded undead are irrelevant. The only risk involved is in the possibility to lose that control, same as with any undead.

[Zaq]

A rebuke undead puts them under the cleric's total mental control. The personality and potential loyalties of commanded undead are irrelevant. The only risk involved is in the possibility to lose that control, same as with any undead.

Yeah, this. If you can guarantee (or almost guarantee) that you're in control (either by catching it in your Rebukéball or by carefully and reliably using other methods of complete control), then start looking at the benefits. If you're relying on making a deal, though, that's a much bigger risk than I'm personally willing to take on most characters. Just how much rebuke juice do you have?

[BlackOnyx]

A rebuke undead puts them under the cleric's total mental control. The personality and potential loyalties of commanded undead are irrelevant. The only risk involved is in the possibility to lose that control, same as with any undead.


Fair, though I guess my question then is how exactly the rebuking mechanic is supposed to work with intelligent undead. I.e.:

Are they treated as having a "friendly" attitude toward their controller?

Are they effectively comatose/unmoving unless given orders?

Are they conscious of/do they retain memories of the time they were controlled?

To what extent can they "liberally interpret" orders to put them in situations where the rebuking effect would become void?



Just how much rebuke juice do you have?

Quite a bit, actually (Paragnostic Apostle really helps):

Effective Cleric Level (Base): 18 (15 base, 3 staff)

Turning Check: d20+5 (minimum 6)

Turning Damage: 2d6+18 (minimum 20)

...so an 8HD mindflayer ought be a "sure thing" setting aside outside influences. Even with a minimum roll on the turning check, anything under 16HD should fall under the rebuke effect (and anything under 9HD can be commanded).



If you're relying on making a deal, though, that's a much bigger risk than I'm personally willing to take on most characters.


Agreed that it's a risky prospect. That said, if it were to be attempted, I'm curious as to how others might go about it.

As things stand, this is very much a thought experiment. My PC has only used animate dead up to this point, as enslaving sentient creatures against their will (if avoidable) goes against his usual policies (on both practical and ethical grounds).