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The Giant
2018-08-03, 11:17 AM
New comic is up.

Keltest
2018-08-03, 11:19 AM
Are you kidding? Mr Scruffy lives with Belkar! He probably has the worst issues of them all.

endur
2018-08-03, 11:20 AM
Awesome after death.

Ironsmith
2018-08-03, 11:20 AM
"Eh, the cat's probably fine."

Funny, sad, but true.

Shining Wrath
2018-08-03, 11:20 AM
Ah, divine justice takes many forms. Including confused clerics punching you in the nose.

OK, so we know Durkon's in heaven, and the vampire spirit DurkonT ... isn't. I wonder if we'll ever find out what happened to it?

Great Dane
2018-08-03, 11:20 AM
Aw man, all the good feels for Durkon.

Forikroder
2018-08-03, 11:20 AM
i mean... some of them have worked them out



OK, so we know Durkon's in heaven, and the vampire spirit DurkonT ... isn't. I wonder if we'll ever find out what happened to it?

assuming it even still exists it would go back to Hel

Veya
2018-08-03, 11:20 AM
Unknown to Durkon, Mr. Scruffy is fully aware of the Sphinx Pox he carries and is weighted down with guilt at this moment, so not even the cat is fine.

Angband
2018-08-03, 11:20 AM
Mr. Scruffy may be a murderous psychopath, but for a cat that's completely normal psychology.

Chei
2018-08-03, 11:20 AM
Durkon, I have missed you. Also, Minrah! Glad her screentime didn't burn out so abruptly.

Pampukin
2018-08-03, 11:21 AM
The same cat that gutted a gladiator in the arena?

Going Hereward
2018-08-03, 11:21 AM
I can't help but feel like that's the player signalling for the GM to do something about the cat.

zql
2018-08-03, 11:23 AM
I'm so happy that Durkon is finally in Valhalla :smallsmile:

arrowed
2018-08-03, 11:23 AM
I wonder if the secrets of where dwarven souls go after death are about to be revealed... :smallconfused:

Keltest
2018-08-03, 11:24 AM
So wait... Durkon is in the afterlife now. Is he going to meet Eugene?

Shining Wrath
2018-08-03, 11:24 AM
I wonder why Minrah doesn't have her hammer, since Roy's grandfather had his sword?

Also, I wonder if Durkon ever saw Minrah? Does he know who she was? I think he only saw what DurkonT let him see (or drug him by the beard to see).

unbeliever536
2018-08-03, 11:24 AM
Have we seen a flashback to Roy's time on the clouds? Wherever it is that Durkon and Minrah are hanging out looks a little different from where Roy and Eugene were, but that might be because of art style changes. That said, I wouldn't be too surprised to learn that dwarves have a different heavenly foyer, since their afterlife mechanics are so different.

Shining Wrath
2018-08-03, 11:25 AM
So wait... Durkon is in the afterlife now. Is he going to meet Eugene?

Is he going to get cross-examined by a deva as Roy was? Because that might be interesting. I suspect Durkon might have an easier time, but he's still going to have to answer for Belkar and, possibly, V.

Hans of Frysia
2018-08-03, 11:25 AM
I'm so happy that Durkon is finally in Valhalla :smallsmile:

Based on Roy's experiences in the afterlife, I think they're not in Valhalla yet, but awaiting judgement. Both died honourably in battle though, so they're probably fine.

Peelee
2018-08-03, 11:26 AM
I wasn't around for all the issues people had over Roy running around after death, but I'm excited about another Afterlife romp! Sadly, I'm pretty sure it's going to be a lot shorter this time around.

Chei
2018-08-03, 11:26 AM
Ah, divine justice takes many forms. Including confused clerics punching you in the nose.

OK, so we know Durkon's in heaven, and the vampire spirit DurkonT ... isn't. I wonder if we'll ever find out what happened to it?

If the evil spirit is technically an outsider, then it's merged back into the plane it was born in - Hel's domain. It wouldn't exist as a discrete individual anymore.

I wouldn't be terribly unsatisfied with that, either. If that vampire's last moment was to be spent buckling under the weight of Sigdi's awesomeness, it'd only be fitting.

Dungeon-noob
2018-08-03, 11:26 AM
Yey, Durkon is free. Also good on Minrah for keeping on fighting the good fight. Now to see who comes back and who doesn't. And how they get judged and where.

zinycor
2018-08-03, 11:26 AM
Feels good to see Minrah again! :smallbiggrin:

Lissou
2018-08-03, 11:27 AM
Nice seeing her again, and I'm glad we get to see Durkon some more. Hope we get to see Valhalla!

Grey_Wolf_c
2018-08-03, 11:27 AM
I'm so happy that Durkon is finally in Valhalla :smallsmile:

It looks more like the judgment waiting area to me.


So wait... Durkon is in the afterlife now. Is he going to meet Eugene?

Maybe? More concerned about him meeting Hel, TBH. Although he and Minrah seem to have skipped directly to cloud-land, so maybe they were so clear-cut heroism deaths they don't even have to wait for Thor and Hel to dicker it out.

Grey Wolf

Fish
2018-08-03, 11:28 AM
Interesting!

I have been wondering about this for a while: whether we would see another glimpse into the other planes, and how they are reacting to the impending end of the world. Will we get to see some lower planes when Belkar dies?

1chapelcredit
2018-08-03, 11:28 AM
Hooray for more afterlife scenes! Though I'm dying to know what's happening in the Old Banquet Hall right now.

Grey_Wolf_c
2018-08-03, 11:31 AM
I wonder why Minrah doesn't have her hammer, since Roy's grandfather had his sword?
Presumably for the same reason Roy didn't have it: she doesn't think the hammer truly belongs to her.


Is he going to get cross-examined by a deva as Roy was?

He should be, yes, unless he gets resurrected before that. It won't be as long as after the battle, but there should be a bit of a queue after Greg's rampage. (It might not happen on-page, though)

Grey Wolf

zinycor
2018-08-03, 11:33 AM
It looks more like the judgment waiting area to me.



Maybe? More concerned about him meeting Hel, TBH. Although he and Minrah seem to have skipped directly to cloud-land, so maybe they were so clear-cut heroism deaths they don't even have to wait for Thor and Hel to dicker it out.

Grey Wolf

I am anticipating Durkon meeting Thor :smallsmile:

TRH
2018-08-03, 11:33 AM
Is he going to get cross-examined by a deva as Roy was? Because that might be interesting. I suspect Durkon might have an easier time, but he's still going to have to answer for Belkar and, possibly, V.

Well, Roy faced grief for Belkar because he was Belkar's leader and therefore carried some responsibility for his actions. Durkon wasn't, and still tried to steer both of those two onto a better path. Well, more V than Belkar, but I don't think he'd face too much scrutiny on that front, either.

Personification
2018-08-03, 11:33 AM
I wonder why Minrah doesn't have her hammer, since Roy's grandfather had his sword?

Eugene Horace (names are hard) was so tied to the sword that it became part of his soul, but Minrah wasn't that tied to her hammer. However, like Eugene Horace and his sword, she carries her fists in her heart.

Keltest
2018-08-03, 11:33 AM
Maybe? More concerned about him meeting Hel, TBH. Although he and Minrah seem to have skipped directly to cloud-land, so maybe they were so clear-cut heroism deaths they don't even have to wait for Thor and Hel to dicker it out.

Grey Wolf

I would be surprised if she shows up. I would be slightly less surprised if Thor or Odin show up to congratulate Durkon on successfully subverting the vampire and leaving him some wisdom and advice for the upcoming trials, but still surprised.

TRH
2018-08-03, 11:34 AM
Eugene was so tied to the sword that it became part of his soul, but Minrah wasn't that tied to her hammer. However, like Eugene and his sword, she carries her fists in her heart.

That'd be Horace, not Eugene. Eugene disdained swords.

AutomatedTeller
2018-08-03, 11:34 AM
I carry my fists in my heart!!

Brilliant. And we definitely needed some lighthearted fun. Things had been dark for awhile, and just because they beat Durkula doesn't mean it'll be much lighter down in the real world.

Shining Wrath
2018-08-03, 11:34 AM
It looks more like the judgment waiting area to me.



Maybe? More concerned about him meeting Hel, TBH. Although he and Minrah seem to have skipped directly to cloud-land, so maybe they were so clear-cut heroism deaths they don't even have to wait for Thor and Hel to dicker it out.

Grey Wolf

Agree that they are in the lobby. Suspect Hel is out of the picture; when we were shown Thor and Hel bickering over a soul it didn't look like this. Both died honorable deaths by everything we've been told; in battle against evil enemies intending to corrupt the ruling council of the dwarven race had better be honorable.


Interesting!

I have been wondering about this for a while: whether we would see another glimpse into the other planes, and how they are reacting to the impending end of the world. Will we get to see some lower planes when Belkar dies?

I think there's a Belkar arc coming, or continuing, and the denouement of Belkar's arc may be a chaotic neutral afterlife. He's got a lot of atonement to perform, but dying to save the whole world from Team Evil or The Snarl would be a big plus.

2D8HP
2018-08-03, 11:35 AM
:durkon: "Eh, the cat's probably fine"

Yes.

Yes it is.

So glad to see Durkon and Minrah again!

chy03001
2018-08-03, 11:35 AM
What a great way to wrap up a work week,

Thanks Giant!

I was hoping to see Durkon's father ;-)

Shining Wrath
2018-08-03, 11:36 AM
I would be surprised if she shows up. I would be slightly less surprised if Thor or Odin show up to congratulate Durkon on successfully subverting the vampire and leaving him some wisdom and advice for the upcoming trials, but still surprised.

I would not be surprised if we got a scene of Durkon being welcomed by some celestial and advice being whispered to him before he gets called back into the fray.

TRH
2018-08-03, 11:37 AM
:durkon: Och, OK. But tha's more common than ye'd think.

...Was that him confirming Belkar's theory that Durkon Thundershield is, in fact, a common name?

zinycor
2018-08-03, 11:37 AM
what a great way to wrap up a work week,

thanks giant!

I was hoping to see durkon's father ;-)

yes yes yes yes!!

AutomatedTeller
2018-08-03, 11:37 AM
Huh. Durkon lost his shield, but not his armor.

Personification
2018-08-03, 11:38 AM
That'd be Horace, not Eugene. Eugene disdained swords.

Thank you for catching that, I have edited accordingly.

The Glyphstone
2018-08-03, 11:38 AM
I am anticipating Durkon meeting Thor :smallsmile:

He's going to be so disappointed.

Peelee
2018-08-03, 11:38 AM
:durkon: Och, OK. But tha's more common than ye'd think.

...Was that him confirming Belkar's theory that Durkon Thundershield is, in fact, a common name?

Pretty sure it was a reference to the vampire going by Durkon Thundershield.

MReav
2018-08-03, 11:39 AM
*Meanwhile in Mr. Scruffy's head*

"I'm going to track down that loud, obnoxious human that killed my human and claw her eyes out. Then I'm going to get my halfling to get my dwarf to regenerate her eyes so I can claw her eyes out again."

Grey_Wolf_c
2018-08-03, 11:39 AM
Huh. Durkon lost his shield, but not his armor.

I suspect appropriate clothing is provided because PG-13 (see also: HP book with no pictures vs film).

Grey Wolf

TRH
2018-08-03, 11:39 AM
Pretty sure it was a reference to the vampire going by Durkon Thundershield.

Well, yeah, but why not both?

thereaper
2018-08-03, 11:39 AM
I am anticipating Durkon meeting Thor :smallsmile:

I actually want to see that. Mainly because I think Durkon speaking to Thor face to face might get him to rethink his taste in deity. It would be a great twist if Durkon returned to life, only to need to find a new god asap because he finally realized Thor wasn't worthy of him.

Peelee
2018-08-03, 11:39 AM
He's going to be so disappointed.

Better than Hel, who found out her original High Priest was misappointed.

I suspect appropriate clothing is provided because PG-13 (see also: HP book with no pictures vs film).

Even tied up in his head, he had armor but no shield/hammer. Imean, I agree with you, I'm just saying nothing's changed as far as Durkon's spirit is concerned.

masonwheeler
2018-08-03, 11:40 AM
Maybe? More concerned about him meeting Hel, TBH. Although he and Minrah seem to have skipped directly to cloud-land, so maybe they were so clear-cut heroism deaths they don't even have to wait for Thor and Hel to dicker it out.

Durkon's definitely was!

TRH
2018-08-03, 11:41 AM
I actually want to see that. Mainly because I think Durkon speaking to Thor face to face might get him to rethink his taste in deity. It would be a great twist if Durkon returned to life, only to need to find a new god asap because he finally realized Thor wasn't worthy of him.

This is the god who opined that "We owe it to our followers to give them every chance to make this right." In what way is such a god unworthy? Especially for someone as humble as Durkon?

jwhouk
2018-08-03, 11:41 AM
Welcome to Valhalla! (PUNCH TO THE FACE).

Keltest
2018-08-03, 11:42 AM
Welcome to Valhalla! (PUNCH TO THE FACE).

I dunno, he could have gotten there during feast time.

masonwheeler
2018-08-03, 11:43 AM
I suspect appropriate clothing is provided because PG-13 (see also: HP book with no pictures vs film).

A certain bard would beg to differ:

:elan: I'M INVISIBLE!

deimos3428
2018-08-03, 11:43 AM
I suspect appropriate clothing is provided because PG-13 (see also: HP book with no pictures vs film).

Grey Wolf

Yes, and I don't believe there's anything in the rules that says you become invisible when you reach the afterlife.

Turin_19
2018-08-03, 11:43 AM
I would never have guessed that we would see Durkon's afterlife. To me, he would either vanish (not be seen in the story for a long time so we'd f-- miss him) or come back quick.

And I'm also so surprised with Minrah. Didn't think she'd show up again!!!

!!!

Shining Wrath
2018-08-03, 11:43 AM
Welcome to Valhalla! (PUNCH TO THE FACE).

Doesn't it make sense that in dwarven heaven you'd be greeted by a punch in the nose? Next the foaming mug!

factotum
2018-08-03, 11:45 AM
This is the god who opined that "We owe it to our followers to give them every chance to make this right." In what way is such a god unworthy? Especially for someone as humble as Durkon?

Yeah, I agree. Nothing that's happened in the last few days would have come as close to shaking Durkon's faith as when he was thrown out in the snow without even a chance to say goodbye to his mother, by the High Priest of his own god. He continued worshipping Thor after that, he'll continue after this.

brian 333
2018-08-03, 11:45 AM
Go Minrah!

"The cat's probably fine."

Let's see:
1) cuddles with a lizard
2) doesn't chase the talking bird
3) was owned by Shojo and Belkar
4) calously eviscerates commoners

If ever there was a cat with emotional issues...

Shining Wrath
2018-08-03, 11:47 AM
Presumably for the same reason Roy didn't have it: she doesn't think the hammer truly belongs to her.



He should be, yes, unless he gets resurrected before that. It won't be as long as after the battle, but there should be a bit of a queue after Greg's rampage. (It might not happen on-page, though)

Grey Wolf

And also we know that Roy thought of the sword as Horace's, which is why he saw Horace as having it; Horace looking at himself might not have had it, because heaven is a magical place. So, yeah, neither Minrah nor Durkon was emotionally vested in their weaponry. The heavy armor might have been more symbolic to a dwarf of their role as a cleric.

Given that dwarves have the "Thor or Hel" thing going, there may not be a deva examination, or not much of one. "Died fighting? Against a worthy foe of the dwarven people? Come on in".

Pete
2018-08-03, 11:48 AM
"Is that how vampirism works? But what about--"
"Och, it's messy. How aboot we na get inta it right now?"

Is the Giant getting a bit meta here? :smallbiggrin:

Sure looks like a nod to the forum. :roach:

jwhouk
2018-08-03, 11:49 AM
I am also a bit concerned about the darkness in the background - but then again, this is Dwarven Heaven. They live underground, so naturally it's dark.

I'd also be concerned that Hel is going to bring up Durkon's comments on his Worst Day Ever. Thor better go to bat for him, or Durkon could just about snap on them all - and render the Godsmoot's proceedings moot.

Also - 63 posts in 32 minutes. Not bad.

Peelee
2018-08-03, 11:50 AM
I'd also be concerned that Hel is going to bring up Durkon's comments on his Worst Day Ever.

I don't see why that would matter at all, since he didn't die on that day.

TuringTest
2018-08-03, 11:50 AM
And after the emotional roller-coaster, we go back to the regular, non-world-threatening joke-of-the-week. :smallbiggrin:

I'ts good to see good ol' Durkon standing on his feet, even if those are immaterial. I think we needed some stress relief.

locksmith of lo
2018-08-03, 11:51 AM
OMG! i just checked earlier today, on the off-chance there would be a new comic, but no not on a friday after this onslaught of frequent updates! :smallcool:

FlawedParadigm
2018-08-03, 11:51 AM
Oh. This is one of the few chances/sources the party would have for getting any information on RiftWorld without going there themselves. Durkon may be about to get some divine DL. We've seen Thor bend the rules for him before too.

zinycor
2018-08-03, 11:51 AM
I actually want to see that. Mainly because I think Durkon speaking to Thor face to face might get him to rethink his taste in deity. It would be a great twist if Durkon returned to life, only to need to find a new god asap because he finally realized Thor wasn't worthy of him.

Why? Has Thor done anything bad that I haven't realized?

Peelee
2018-08-03, 11:54 AM
Why? Has Thor done anything bad that I haven't realized?

Had more screentime than the other gods.:smalltongue:

AutomatedTeller
2018-08-03, 11:55 AM
Better than Hel, who found out her original High Priest was misappointed.


Even tied up in his head, he had armor but no shield/hammer. Imean, I agree with you, I'm just saying nothing's changed as far as Durkon's spirit is concerned.


He absolutely had a shield. Go back a page - it's on his back.

That was what I meant - he lost the shield moving to the afterlife. I doubt it means anything, just a little detail.

Peelee
2018-08-03, 11:56 AM
He absolutely had a shield. Go back a page - it's on his back.

That was what I meant - he lost the shield moving to the afterlife. I doubt it means anything, just a little detail.

Well, look at me being wrong then. Joke's on you, though, I'm wrong like all the time.

MartianInvader
2018-08-03, 11:57 AM
MINRAH! I'm so glad you weren't just discarded from the story once your battle usefulness was over.

Ironsmith
2018-08-03, 11:58 AM
The heavy armor might have been more symbolic to a dwarf of their role as a cleric.

Given that they're also both wearing their holy symbols, I'm inclined to agree with this interpretation... though since they're both clerics of Thor, it does still beg the question of why neither of them have hammers, what with them being their deity's favored weapon and all.

Shoelessgdowar
2018-08-03, 11:58 AM
Ah, divine justice takes many forms. Including confused clerics punching you in the nose.

OK, so we know Durkon's in heaven, and the vampire spirit DurkonT ... isn't. I wonder if we'll ever find out what happened to it?

i mean... some of them have worked them out

assuming it even still exists it would go back to Hel

If the evil spirit is technically an outsider, then it's merged back into the plane it was born in - Hel's domain. It wouldn't exist as a discrete individual anymore.

I wouldn't be terribly unsatisfied with that, either. If that vampire's last moment was to be spent buckling under the weight of Sigdi's awesomeness, it'd only be fitting.

Technically it was a Dwarven Vampire (Or Vampiric Dwarf, either way) and Died in combat, so having Dwarf in its descriptors means that if it was not destroyed entirely, as per the bet, it too would go to Valhalla (Do not pass go, do not get $200, never see Hel again). Durkula, therefore, is gone for good.


Welcome to Valhalla! (PUNCH TO THE FACE).

I dunno, he could have gotten there during feast time.

Doesn't it make sense that in dwarven heaven you'd be greeted by a punch in the nose? Next the foaming mug!

Technically punch to the face and foaming mug are both possible greetings in Valhalla, as Keltest implies, there are two main parts of the Valhalla day, the Battle Time and the Feast Time... Actually makes sense that Minrah and Durkon arrived early in the Day, so Battle Time, as Feast Time is more an end of the Day sort of thing.

IntelectPaladin
2018-08-03, 12:01 PM
The emotional roller hasn't excatly stopped, just in a lull. They've still lost him until/unless he's revived.
And didn't they have to spend a good bit of that on the crew?

KorvinStarmast
2018-08-03, 12:01 PM
Wherever it is that Durkon and Minrah are hanging out looks a little different from where Roy and Eugene were, but that might be because of art style changes. That said, I wouldn't be too surprised to learn that dwarves have a different heavenly foyer, since their afterlife mechanics are so different. Makes sense.
1. Yay Minrah! Glad to see her back on screen. (I carry my fists in my heart is a nice line; she started out as a Fighter)
2. Yay Durkon, in general, being Durkon again.
3. The cat's OK. Chuckled, I did. :smallbiggrin:

Thanks Giant, that's a fun strip right there.

Goremplotz
2018-08-03, 12:02 PM
"very low level disguise magic"

hilarious!:smallsmile:

and good to see DurkonTM in kind of an honorable-dwarves-heaven, as evidenced by the presence of Minrah.

Fyraltari
2018-08-03, 12:03 PM
Afterlife yay!
Well Durkon#2 did not make it to Valhalla. I hope he gets oblivion (rather than Hel).

I also hope Minrah tells Durkon the name of his on. (Though she may not know it is his son, I'm not sure.)

I wonder if the secrets of where dwarven souls go after death are about to be revealed... :smallconfused:
What secret? Should they die with honor they get everybody else's deal, else they go to Hel.

Also, I wonder if Durkon ever saw Minrah? Does he know who she was? I think he only saw what DurkonT let him see (or drug him by the beard to see).
They just fought.
Durkon could see everything DurkonT could (provided he was looking) as proved by the strip wher watching DurkonT do magic to the staff brings him memories of playing with his cousin.

It looks more like the judgment waiting area to me.
Me too.



Maybe? More concerned about him meeting Hel, TBH. Although he and Minrah seem to have skipped directly to cloud-land, so maybe they were so clear-cut heroism deaths they don't even have to wait for Thor and Hel to dicker it out.
They only argue the grey areas. This is as clear-cut as it can be.


Welcome to Valhalla! (PUNCH TO THE FACE).
THAT'S THE SPIRIT!


Why? Has Thor done anything bad that I haven't realized?
People aren'yt forgiving for his part in The BetTM.

~Corvus~
2018-08-03, 12:04 PM
I like how the cat's now considered part of the group.

...I guess if a Housecat is a threat to goblin peasants then...yeah it makes sense.

Peelee
2018-08-03, 12:05 PM
Technically it was a Dwarven Vampire (Or Vampiric Dwarf, either way) and Died in combat, so having Dwarf in its descriptors means that if it was not destroyed entirely, as per the bet, it too would go to Valhalla (Do not pass go, do not get $200, never see Hel again).

The bet was that Hel gets default dominion over Dwarves, except for certain exceptions (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1083.html). Nothing about it says they go to either Hel or Valhalla, and those are the only choices. Especially since Thor keeps the normal arrangement.

Draconi Redfir
2018-08-03, 12:06 PM
admittedly, i thought Minrah was just unconcious. Hope none of the others died :S

Still, Dwarven afterlife! Wonder how much of it we'll get to see:smalltongue:

TuringTest
2018-08-03, 12:07 PM
Have we seen a flashback to Roy's time on the clouds? Wherever it is that Durkon and Minrah are hanging out looks a little different from where Roy and Eugene were, but that might be because of art style changes. That said, I wouldn't be too surprised to learn that dwarves have a different heavenly foyer, since their afterlife mechanics are so different.

Different afterlife, I'd say. Legal Good afterlife didn't have hills in the background, (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0485.html) just that lone neverending mountain. (Although that could be merely an effect of the art upgrade).


I have to wonder... We know that clerics and wizards can contact people from below, right? Will Durkon be able to communicate with Roy using a simple Sending spell?


I am anticipating Durkon meeting Thor :smallsmile:

Oh gosh! :smallbiggrin: I hope Thor lives up to expectations! I wouldn't want Durkon to be disappointed, after his heroic death.

zinycor
2018-08-03, 12:08 PM
People aren'yt forgiving for his part in The BetTM.

¿¿?? By people you mean Hel? that's pretty much the only person I can see being upset to thor over the bet. Don't see why Durkon would care about that. Hell, he might already know about it.

KorvinStarmast
2018-08-03, 12:11 PM
admittedly, i thought Minrah was just unconcious. Hope none of the others died :S

Still, Dwarven afterlife! Wonder how much of it we'll get to see:smalltongue: Note the X's in the eyes in the panel during, and after (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1128.html), the empowered flame strike from Hilgya. X's in eyes is an OOTS indicator of being dead.

Snails
2018-08-03, 12:13 PM
Go Minrah!

"The cat's probably fine."

Let's see:
1) cuddles with a lizard
2) doesn't chase the talking bird
3) was owned by Shojo and Belkar
4) calously eviscerates commoners

If ever there was a cat with emotional issues...

1) puts an allosaurus in its place as a walking throw pillow
2) deigned to not eat the talking bird (the bird using a wand was convincing)
3a) owned a human ruler of a city with obedient paladins to keep the litter box clean
3b) now owns a sexy shoeless god of war
4) callously eviscerates commoners
5) kicked a wolf's ass

This seems like pretty much a cat fantasy. (Granted: eating the bird might have been nice.)

hroþila
2018-08-03, 12:13 PM
I imagine there's not a place where dwarven souls go to be picked by either Hel or Thor. Rather, when Hel thinks she has a good case, she merely takes her souls down with her, and then Thor has to go visit her if he wants to reclaim one. Both arguing (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0737.html) scenes (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0874.html) took place in Niflheim, after all.

Stabbey
2018-08-03, 12:16 PM
I think Hel and Thor fighting over a soul is only for edge cases. Dying in combat or dying of old age probably skips the step unless there's a really, really good argument.


Minrah can tell Durkon the reason for his exile was the prophecy of death and destruction, and that has come to pass. That might be enough to get him to return if he's called for resurrection.

zinycor
2018-08-03, 12:17 PM
Go Minrah!

"The cat's probably fine."

Let's see:
1) cuddles with a lizard
2) doesn't chase the talking bird
3) was owned by Shojo and Belkar
4) calously eviscerates commoners

If ever there was a cat with emotional issues...

The only weird thing there is the cat not eating the bird, Which is an proof of Mr. scruffy being a noble soul. better than any other Cat xD.

And, Mr scruffy owned shojo and Belkar, not the other way around.

Fyraltari
2018-08-03, 12:17 PM
¿¿?? By people you mean Hel? that's pretty much the only person I can see being upset to thor over the bet. Don't see why Durkon would care about that. Hell, he might already know about it.

Don't have the courage to go dig old threads right now, but I remember several posters not considering advanced ebriety to be cause of forgiveness for being complicit in creating a system that condemn people to a near-eternity of suffering at random. Considering said ebriety happened near Loki, that's a good point.

Snails
2018-08-03, 12:20 PM
The only weird thing there is the cat not eating the bird, Which is an proof of Mr. scruffy being a noble soul. better than any other Cat xD.

Probably his majesty, Mr. Scruffy, is too dignified to eat crow.

skim172
2018-08-03, 12:21 PM
Hey now, Durkon. What about Roy's little bag of critters? Those fellas seem to be very well-adjusted, considering they manage to get along together living in a tiny bag. Anyone who'd lived with roommates can tell you - you can't share a cramped living space with people with personality issues

TRH
2018-08-03, 12:21 PM
Don't have the courage to go dig old threads right now, but I remember several posters not considering advanced ebriety to be cause of forgiveness for being complicit in creating a system that condemn people to a near-eternity of suffering at random. Considering said ebriety happened near Loki, that's a good point.

So advanced inebriation impedes one's ability to knowingly consent to something...unless that something is really, really important, at which point your capacity to consent returns? That sounds like utilitarianism intruding on a previously deontological argument. Or something.

cobaltstarfire
2018-08-03, 12:22 PM
Seeing Durkon free is like seeing an old friend after a very long time. It's exciting and I feel very happy about this particular update.

Fyraltari
2018-08-03, 12:23 PM
So advanced inebriation impedes one's ability to knowingly consent to something...unless that something is really, really important, at which point your capacity to consent returns? That sounds like utilitarianism intruding on a previously deontological argument. Or something.

Don't tell me, I was on the other side of that argument.

Snails
2018-08-03, 12:24 PM
Don't have the courage to go dig old threads right now, but I remember several posters not considering advanced ebriety to be cause of forgiveness for being complicit in creating a system that condemn people to a near-eternity of suffering at random. Considering said ebriety happened near Loki, that's a good point.

I do not forgive Thor. But I would say that scene efficiently shows that both Thor and Hel have no clue what the bet really means -- that they were both equally played by Loki. That Thor does not regret the the bet is just a happy accident.

TRH
2018-08-03, 12:26 PM
I do not forgive Thor. But I would say that scene efficiently shows that both Thor and Hel have no clue what the bet really means -- that they were both equally played by Loki. That Thor does not regret the the bet is just a happy accident.

How do we know that? He benefits from it, yes, insofar as most dwarves seem like they end up with him, or try to. But he is a Good god, so that doesn't mean he thinks this is right - merely something he can't back out of while this world is running.

Snails
2018-08-03, 12:26 PM
Hey now, Durkon. What about Roy's little bag of critters? Those fellas seem to be very well-adjusted, considering they manage to get along together living in a tiny bag. Anyone who'd lived with roommates can tell you - you can't share a cramped living space with people with personality issues

Bloodfeast may need some therapy for suffering such a reduced state.

zinycor
2018-08-03, 12:27 PM
I do not forgive Thor. But I would say that scene efficiently shows that both Thor and Hel have no clue what the bet really means -- that they were both equally played by Loki. That Thor does not regret the the bet is just a happy accident.

The question is not if you or me forgive thor. The quesiton is if Durkon would. And I don't think Durkon would even find something to forgive.

TuringTest
2018-08-03, 12:28 PM
Different afterlife, I'd say. Legal Good afterlife didn't have hills in the background, (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0485.html) just that lone neverending mountain. (Although that could be merely an effect of the art upgrade).




BTW, I've just noticed some good foreshadowing in panel 10 there.

I'd never realized that Eugene's fourth-wall-breaking joke was the Giant revealing an incoming homage to the anime. :smallbiggrin:

Snails
2018-08-03, 12:30 PM
How do we know that? He benefits from it, yes, insofar as most dwarves seem like they end up with him, or try to. But he is a Good god, so that doesn't mean he thinks this is right - merely something he can't back out of while this world is running.

Hel thinks Thor is benefitting. Which may be wrong, but it is a good guess.

BTW, we have no idea what Thor's alignment is. Only that Durkon seems to believe that worshipping Thor and ending up with Thor is a reasonable. Of course, Durkon seems to be a cleric with 0 ranks in Knowledge:Religion.

Jay R
2018-08-03, 12:30 PM
:durkon: "...probably..."

This is The Order of the Stick, after all.

Rogar Demonblud
2018-08-03, 12:34 PM
Yeah, I agree. Nothing that's happened in the last few days would have come as close to shaking Durkon's faith as when he was thrown out in the snow without even a chance to say goodbye to his mother, by the High Priest of his own god. He continued worshiping Thor after that, he'll continue after this.

Well, the memory the vampire showed him (and us) had Durkon saying he didn't blame Thor, just the dwarves.

So, it looks like they're on the doorstep for Valhalla. Which is in Ysgard, the CG/CN plane. Waiting to meet a god generally carded as CG.

And it looks like they're both Lawful Good.:smalleek:

Lord Raziere
2018-08-03, 12:35 PM
He's going to be so disappointed.

I'm pretty sure that Durkon is aware how Thor really is, for a long time now. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0073.html)

and expressed the similar awareness hundreds of comics later. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0501.html)

Goblin_Priest
2018-08-03, 12:37 PM
Have we seen a flashback to Roy's time on the clouds? Wherever it is that Durkon and Minrah are hanging out looks a little different from where Roy and Eugene were, but that might be because of art style changes. That said, I wouldn't be too surprised to learn that dwarves have a different heavenly foyer, since their afterlife mechanics are so different.

Their souls aren't destined to the same places.

137beth
2018-08-03, 12:38 PM
The cat, the raven, they all have emotional issues.

BLAHMASTER
2018-08-03, 12:41 PM
Welcome to Valhalla! (PUNCH TO THE FACE).

I totally read this with Will Smith's voice.

WolvesbaneIII
2018-08-03, 12:43 PM
wouldn't it be funny if the vampire spirit that was durkonised was sent to valhalla too as a mistake, like a clerical error (pun intended).

It'd be an amusing sub plot for a few comics at least. a momentary diversion at best.

:durkon: ugh. I can't wait to beressurected
:durkon: me either

:durkon::durkon: Oh crap!

TRH
2018-08-03, 12:44 PM
Hel thinks Thor is benefitting. Which may be wrong, but it is a good guess.

BTW, we have no idea what Thor's alignment is. Only that Durkon seems to believe that worshipping Thor and ending up with Thor is a reasonable. Of course, Durkon seems to be a cleric with 0 ranks in Knowledge:Religion.

Well, like I said, "Is benefiting =/= Thinks is Right." One of the key facets of a Good alignment, I think, is knowing that what's personally beneficial isn't necessarily what's moral, or best for everyone.

As for Thor's alignment, most people here seem to think he's Chaotic Good. I disagree, since the implications of letting clerics be two steps away from their gods can be pretty troubling. You could suddenly have Good clerics of Evil Gods, and vice versa, and I don't think the Giant would want to allow that. And if you think Thor is Chaotic and Neutral or Evil...well, then, being a cleric suddenly just means getting magic for free, I guess. Personally, I'd rather we stick with cleric alignment helping at least a teeny, weeny bit in narrowing down the ideals of their patrons.

Also, Thor emphasized the importance of giving mortals every opportunity to solve the Gate crisis. That sounds like a Good sentiment to me, or at least a Lawful one.

In any case, you made the original assertion not that Thor personally approves of the arrangement with Hel. Your only evidence is that he benefits from it. My counterargument is that a Good god would recognize the injustice in the arrangement despite the personal gain involved. If it's possible that Thor is Good, then that argues against your conclusion about his attitude towards the bet. I think you now need to prove why he's Neutral or Evil, or else why a Good character would take leave of their conscience on such a weighty issue, even though they'd be reminded of it every time they have to go debate Hel on a new case.

pendell
2018-08-03, 12:44 PM
It looks more like the judgment waiting area to me.



Maybe? More concerned about him meeting Hel, TBH. Although he and Minrah seem to have skipped directly to cloud-land, so maybe they were so clear-cut heroism deaths they don't even have to wait for Thor and Hel to dicker it out.

Grey Wolf

Don't think so. I think they're at the gateway preparing to be judged. Should be a shoe-in, though. Durkon and Minrah both died honorably, so Hel hath no dominion over them.

A bit of a let-down after the eucatastrophe of the last few panels -- to me its' not so much after life or after death as after glow :smallamused:

Still a well-executed strip and a worthy continuation of the story.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

SilverCacaobean
2018-08-03, 12:46 PM
Minrah! :smallsmile:

Why hasn't she met brother sandstone or the rest of the vampire spawn that died before Greg, though?

Good to finally see Durkon free again. Last panel made me laugh.

KorvinStarmast
2018-08-03, 12:48 PM
wouldn't it be funny if the vampire spirit that was durkonised was sent to valhalla too as a mistake, like a clerical error (pun intended).

It'd be an amusing sub plot for a few comics at least. a momentary diversion at best.

:durkon: ugh. I can't wait to beressurected
:durkon: me either

:durkon::durkon: Oh crap! I don't think that there is a cleric of Hel with a high enough level left on OoTS world to cast such a spell resurrection for Durkula ... so I think the evil spirit is back with Hel. And OoTS if they think quickly will have the ashes.

Psyren
2018-08-03, 12:49 PM
Pretty sure Loki tricked both of them, but that doesn't mean Thor was wrong to do it. Loki's plan went something like this:


Get Hel and Thor to agree on a crapsack system (but see below).
Hel thinks she'll get the better of the deal, but Thor does because he goes behind her back and clues the dwarves in.
Thor gets more souls than he otherwise would have because even the neutral dwarves are aware of said system, and even dwarves that have terminal illnesses can pick a fight and go out early.
Loki meanwhile also gets far more dwarven souls than he otherwise would have, because anyone worshiping him automatically beats the system too.


The only one screwed by it was Hel herself. And while it might sound crappy that Dwarves have to structure their entire society around a deific bet, the reality is that if they had not done so, Hel would very likely have had far more souls heading her way under the old system, where she was getting undeserved worship instead of having to bicker over every soul that might come her way. The power from that worship would have helped her mess with the mortal world even further (including making a viable high priest long before now, or new diseases etc.)

In short, when both good and evil gods are butting heads, morality becomes a numbers game. What Thor did undoubtedly resulted in the condemnation of innocent souls to Hel's hall. But how many more would have gone there without the bet? Given her lamenting the prior worldstate, I'm guessing she's much worse off in World 2.0. If denying Hel a dwarven soul counts as saving it, Thor came out way ahead.


I don't think that there is a cleric of Hel with a high enough level left on OoTS world to cast such a spell resurrection for Durkula ... so I think the evil spirit is back with Hel. And OoTS if they think quickly will have the ashes.

Well she does have a High Priest now (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1022.html), where she didn't before. Time will tell whether she can do anything with it.

hamishspence
2018-08-03, 12:51 PM
Well, like I said, "Is benefiting =/= Thinks is Right." One of the key facets of a Good alignment, I think, is knowing that what's personally beneficial isn't necessarily what's moral, or best for everyone.

As for Thor's alignment, most people here seem to think he's Chaotic Good. I disagree, since the implications of letting clerics be two steps away from their gods can be pretty troubling. You could suddenly have Good clerics of Evil Gods, and vice versa, and I don't think the Giant would want to allow that.

I see it as "one extra alignment allowed" not "Everything within two steps" - and this is mostly because Thor has so many dwarven followers and dwarves are so Lawful.

As The Giant has pointed out - Thor is much more popular with dwarves than with humans:


Pretty much this. A human can worship Thor if he wants, certainly, but he is much more popular among the dwarves. Hel is specifically the goddess of the dishonored dead, which requires a system of honor/dishonor that really only applies to the dwarves and those humans that choose to believe in such things. If Haley died of disease, she wouldn't go to Hel because she wouldn't believe that she had been dishonored.

probably as a result of being the one to inform them how to avoid Hel.

Snails
2018-08-03, 12:52 PM
TRH,

I can say that I find your arguments persuasive.

Whether Thor would be persuaded, or...just shrug, drink an ocean of ale, and bed a goddess...that is a question that is hard to answer.

If Thor is really Good in a manner that I can understand, he would not have agreed to the bet in the first place (for reasons to complicated to get into right now).

If Thor is really Chaotic in a manner that I can understand, he would not have agreed to the bet in the first place, because even the God of Stupidity would not bet on "honorable" behavior if he is Chaotic.

I am just going to shrug and guess that Law/Chaos/Good/Evil do not necessarily apply to the Norse/Northern gods in a simple way.

Fyraltari
2018-08-03, 12:54 PM
Why hasn't she met brother sandstone or the rest of the vampire spawn that died before Greg, though?
With how many dwarves died on this day, there maybe a bit of a queue. Or maybe she has and just jumped at Durkon real quick.

knag
2018-08-03, 12:56 PM
:durkon: Och, OK. But tha's more common than ye'd think.

...Was that him confirming Belkar's theory that Durkon Thundershield is, in fact, a common name?

When did he say that?

Peelee
2018-08-03, 12:57 PM
Don't think so. I think they're at the gateway preparing to be judged. Should be a shoe-in, though. Durkon and Minrah both died honorably, so Hel hath no dominion over them.

A bit of a let-down after the eucatastrophe of the last few panels -- to me its' not so much after life or after death as after glow :smallamused:

Still a well-executed strip and a worthy continuation of the story.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

If they die with honor, they skip the default Hel grab, but then proceed as normal. They still need to be judged for the afterlife they're slotted for after. Just like Roy.

Fyraltari
2018-08-03, 12:58 PM
If they die with honor, they skip the default Hel grab, but then proceed as normal. They still need to be judged for the afterlife they're slotted for after. Just like Roy.

Not really worried about Durkon, though.

Breccia
2018-08-03, 12:59 PM
"Eh, the cat's probably fine."

Indeed, great punch line.

LasVegasLawyer
2018-08-03, 12:59 PM
Welcome to Valhalla, Durkon! Say hello to Kraagor and get an info-dump!

Peelee
2018-08-03, 12:59 PM
Not really worried about Durkon, though.

Oh, I totally agree. Even a rubberstamp needs the paperwork submitted, though.

TRH
2018-08-03, 12:59 PM
When did he say that?

Here: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1107.html

Emperor Time
2018-08-03, 01:01 PM
Welcome to Valhalla, Durkon! Say hello to Kraagor and get an info-dump!

But wasn't Kraagor's soul destroy by the rift or at least sent to the planet that within the rift?

Doug Lampert
2018-08-03, 01:03 PM
Well, like I said, "Is benefiting =/= Thinks is Right." One of the key facets of a Good alignment, I think, is knowing that what's personally beneficial isn't necessarily what's moral, or best for everyone.
To quote Captain Carrot from Pratchett, "Personal isn't the same as important."

Ruck
2018-08-03, 01:03 PM
Well, yeah, but why not both?

If both, then probably the High Priestess of Thor would not have recognized the Thundershield name as being connected to Durkon and his exile, and Brewmaster Blackore would not necessarily have responded the way he did when told he was back; more like "um... Well, just in case, which Durkon Thundershield?"


I am also a bit concerned about the darkness in the background - but then again, this is Dwarven Heaven. They live underground, so naturally it's dark.

It doesn't look that dark to me, although admittedly I didn't compare this strip to Roy's time on the cloud.

Snails
2018-08-03, 01:05 PM
But wasn't Kraagor's soul destroy by the rift or at least sent to the planet that within the rift?

The obvious guess is being trapped with a god/soul eating supermonster meant that Kraagor's soul could not make the trip to this cloud, yes.

IMHO there is the smidgeon of a possibility that Kraagor is not even dead, so his soul would not be here, for a different reason.

Either way, nobody expects Kraagor in the afterlife.

Skull the Troll
2018-08-03, 01:05 PM
Humm, do you the the end of the book will come before we meet the dwarven leaders, or after? I suppose it depends on if the Dwarves resolve quickly or if there's another crisis to complete first there.

VanFanel
2018-08-03, 01:05 PM
The most important thing I learned in this strip is that a dwarf appearing into the afterlife goes "PINGG" while a human goes "POP (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0536.html)"! :smalltongue:

BigLord
2018-08-03, 01:06 PM
I loved seeing Minrah again, and I love seeing Durkon free, even if in the afterlife! I'm also quite happy with the light-hearted punchline we got! Yay humor!

(also please continue this update schedule if possible, two comic strips a week is amazing)

KorvinStarmast
2018-08-03, 01:08 PM
Well she does have a High Priest now (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1022.html), where she didn't before. Time will tell whether she can do anything with it. Not high enough level. But I like the rest of your post.

LasVegasLawyer
2018-08-03, 01:08 PM
But wasn't Kraagor's soul destroy by the rift or at least sent to the planet that within the rift?

Hmm.. upon further review of strip 276 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0276.html), it appears that Kraagor disappeared when the rift was sealed. I remember that he died, but didn't remember that his body didn't show up on-panel. Okay, no Kraagor.

Snails
2018-08-03, 01:12 PM
The most important thing I learned in this strip is that a dwarf appearing into the afterlife goes "PINGG" while a human goes "POP (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0536.html)"! :smalltongue:

The most important thing I learned in this strip is that the chain holding your holy symbol drapes differently depending on whether you have bosoms.

So, I guess Minrah is a female dwarf.

I really hope I knew this before, only I forgot.

Peelee
2018-08-03, 01:15 PM
The most important thing I learned in this strip is that the chain holding your holy symbol drapes differently depending on whether you have bosoms.

So, I guess Minrah is a female dwarf.

I really hope I knew this before, only I forgot.

You knew and forgot (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1111.html).

KorvinStarmast
2018-08-03, 01:19 PM
But wasn't Kraagor's soul destroy by the rift or at least sent to the planet that within the rift? Unknown. Crayon story, so double unknown.

I'm also quite happy with the light-hearted punchline we got! Which punch line? In panel 5, panel 7 (I carry my fists in my heart!) or in the last panel? :smallbiggrin:

IMHO there is the smidgeon of a possibility that Kraagor is not even dead, so his soul would not be here, for a different reason. Either way, nobody expects Kraagor in the afterlife. As Bruce Lee once said in one of his films: expect the unexpected.

Peelee
2018-08-03, 01:21 PM
As Bruce Lee once said in one of his films: expect the unexpected.

But that makes the unexpected expected. So you're now expecting it, and then BAM! You get hit by the Spanish Inquisition.

Shining Wrath
2018-08-03, 01:21 PM
Indeed, great punch line.

Actually, "I carry my fists in my heart!" was the punch line.

Ironsmith
2018-08-03, 01:24 PM
But that makes the unexpected expected. So you're now expecting it, and then BAM! You get hit by the Spanish Inquisition.

But what if it's unexpected because you were expecting it, and therefore it falls outside the realm of the unexpected, so you don't expect it, rendering it unexpecte- wow I need an aspirin.

Also, can we all just appreciate the fact that, despite lacking corporeal bodies now, Minra can still punch Durkon in the face and he feels it?

And, uh... what would've happened if she managed to break his spiritual neck or something with that?

Fyraltari
2018-08-03, 01:26 PM
Maybe it's darker than Roy's visit because it's also nighttime?
I know Celestia doesn't have anything to measure time (like a day/night cicle) but the demiplane where Roy's processing happened could, no?

Rogar Demonblud
2018-08-03, 01:42 PM
Minrah! :smallsmile:

Why hasn't she met brother sandstone or the rest of the vampire spawn that died before Greg, though?Quite possibly they've already been processed through. It's been a few hours.


But what if it's unexpected because you were expecting it, and therefore it falls outside the realm of the unexpected, so you don't expect it, rendering it unexpecte- wow I need an aspirin.Vodka works too.


Maybe it's darker than Roy's visit because it's also nighttime?
I know Celestia doesn't have anything to measure time (like a day/night circle) but the demiplane where Roy's processing happened could, no?

Durkon's going to be on a separate plane, since he goes to Valhalla, not Celestia.

pendell
2018-08-03, 01:46 PM
So, I assume the OOTS will go for a resurrection for Durkon's ash. Is there any reason they couldn't also spring for a 'Raise Dead' for Minrah and add TWO clerics to the battle party instead of only one?

Respectfully,

Brian P.

Peelee
2018-08-03, 01:46 PM
Quite possibly they've already been processed through. It's been a few hours.

The battle lasted maybe a minute or two. Vampires stop the soul, remember.

jwhouk
2018-08-03, 01:49 PM
Don't think so. I think they're at the gateway preparing to be judged. Should be a shoe-in, though. Durkon and Minrah both died honorably, so Hel hath no dominion over them.
<snip>


Uh-oh. I think you just said the magic anti-words. "Should be a shoe-in."

Hel's gonna be mad that her first-ever HPoH is dead. She might take it out on Dad and her brothers.

Grey_Wolf_c
2018-08-03, 01:53 PM
The battle lasted maybe a minute or two. Vampires stop the soul, remember.

Yes, but Brother Sandstone 's soul got released at the end of the previous battle. Since then, they talked over Hilgya, scried, prepared plans, walked to the room, etc. It's been a while. Maybe not hours, but more than a minute or two.

Grey Wolf

b_jonas
2018-08-03, 01:55 PM
Presumably for the same reason Roy didn't have it: she doesn't think the hammer truly belongs to her. (Also Re Personification.) I disagree. Durkon doesn't have his shield either, and I think he believes it truly belongs to him. Durkon has the shield when he appears as a spirit inside Greg's head.

I imagine it's rather that weapons are temporarily confiscated when a dead gets into the waiting area, as a matter of policy, because being freshly dead can be a confusing experience to some dwarves, and some could cause an accident with their weapon. Especially for a dwarf who believes that the weapon is truly a part of him. Think of Theoden's hall in Lord of the Rings, where everyone also had to hand in their weapons before entering. Yes, I noticed the remark "I carry my fists in my heart", but I can understand that fists and armor are not confiscated here. I'm not very confident in this though.

Peelee: hat tip for writing back to acknowledge your mistake.


The most important thing I learned in this strip is that a dwarf appearing into the afterlife goes "PINGG" while a human goes "POP (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0536.html)"! :smalltongue:The "PINGG" is just the "POP" for Durkon appearing in the lobby and the "DING!" (see #124) from gaining an experience level as he completed a very difficult quest, sounding at the exact same moment and location. No wait, dead spirits of mortals can't gain experience anymore, so that's not it. Sorry :-)

Snails
2018-08-03, 01:56 PM
So, I assume the OOTS will go for a resurrection for Durkon's ash. Is there any reason they couldn't also spring for a 'Raise Dead' for Minrah and add TWO clerics to the battle party instead of only one?

Depends on their "gem budget", first of all.

Minrah is not the only candidate for recruiting here, just the most likely to say yes.

Of course, Minrah is probably going to Vahalla, so she might refuse the invite back to the land of the living. In fact, any normal brave dead dwarf, who is not already in Hel's grasp, might be inclined to stay dead, if they had any clue about the stakes here.

Shining Wrath
2018-08-03, 01:57 PM
So, I assume the OOTS will go for a resurrection for Durkon's ash. Is there any reason they couldn't also spring for a 'Raise Dead' for Minrah and add TWO clerics to the battle party instead of only one?

Respectfully,

Brian P.

I'm going to guess Minrah is level 5 or 6. She's spunky but wouldn't last long if Xykon unleashed Meteor Swarm at the Order.

Also, wouldn't you rather have Hilgya?


Hilgya realizes that the Durkon she believed in would never have exposed his chest to the stake
She and Durkon wed
Hilgya wants to take Kudzu with them but Grandma Sigdi goes Full Grandma on her, and Hilgya realizes that she isn't high enough level to defeat Sigdi in Full Grandma
Kudzu is left in Sigdi's care while Durkon and Hilgya, happily married power couple, travel north to Destroy Xykon, for he is powerful undead and lo, they are such gross, icky things (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1107.html).


Durkon would marry Hilgya to be a father to Kudzu; Hilgya might marry Durkon for the same reason, and also because she realizes she wronged him in her thoughts. This also allows Rich to fulfill his stated goal of adding more female characters to the story.

MartianInvader
2018-08-03, 01:57 PM
The most important thing I learned in this strip is that the chain holding your holy symbol drapes differently depending on whether you have bosoms.

So, I guess Minrah is a female dwarf.

I really hope I knew this before, only I forgot.
Have we ever seen an adult male dwarf without a beard?

Peelee
2018-08-03, 02:00 PM
Yes, but Brother Sandstone 's soul got released at the end of the previous battle. Since then, they talked over Hilgya, scried, prepared plans, walked to the room, etc. It's been a while. Maybe not hours, but more than a minute or two.

Grey Wolf

Ah. I just glazed over the Brother Sandstone bit there. My bad.

pendell
2018-08-03, 02:00 PM
I'm going to guess Minrah is level 5 or 6. She's spunky but wouldn't last long if Xykon unleashed Meteor Swarm at the Order.

Also, wouldn't you rather have Hilgya?


I think the Order already has its quota of chaotic evil murderers on staff, though they should keep her resume on file in case something opens up soon.

Tongue-in-cheek,

Brian P.

Castamir
2018-08-03, 02:01 PM
"The cat's probably fine."

Let's see:
1) cuddles with a lizard
2) doesn't chase the talking bird
3) was owned by Shojo and Belkar
4) calously eviscerates commoners

If ever there was a cat with emotional issues...
I see you're not owned by a cat. All of these are perfectly fine.

Also, don't try to comprehend cat logic, it's... weird. You're just a mere human, both of us have just as much chance understanding cats as an ant has understanding a human.

Rogar Demonblud
2018-08-03, 02:02 PM
I'm going to guess Minrah is level 5 or 6.A ways above that. She has to be at least Cleric 5 to cast the third level spell she used on Roy when he opened the door, and she was a fighter for a while first.
She's spunky but wouldn't last long if Xykon unleashed Meteor Swarm at the Order.

To be fair, a few members of the Order might have a problem with that as well.

umrguy42
2018-08-03, 02:03 PM
Have we seen a flashback to Roy's time on the clouds?

Speaking of which, my apologies if this has been answered elsewhere (feel free to link me), but was there every any answer to what instructions Roy left Roy's Archon in strip 664?

Pampukin
2018-08-03, 02:05 PM
Interesting!

I have been wondering about this for a while: whether we would see another glimpse into the other planes, and how they are reacting to the impending end of the world. Will we get to see some lower planes when Belkar dies?

Well I think Belkars change in alignment towards neutrality, his bond with the crazy shogun old guy, (Lord Shojo?, Shinjo? God its been so long) is leading up to Belkar's death being a defining moment to allow him to rest in chaotic neutral afterlife (what plane would be in d&d universe?)
Edit: Apparently there are 3 planes asociated with chaotic neutrality
-Gladsheim/Ysgard: which is chaotic good/chaotic neutral
-Limbo: which is for pure chaotic neutrality
-Pandemonium: chaotic neutral/chaotic evil.
So I guess its Pandemonium for the Belkster, unless croaking to save the world nets him enough brownie points for an upgrade.

Peelee
2018-08-03, 02:05 PM
Speaking of which, my apologies if this has been answered elsewhere (feel free to link me), but was there every any answer to what instructions Roy left Roy's Archon in strip 664?

Still waiting on that.

TRH
2018-08-03, 02:07 PM
A ways above that. She has to be at least Cleric 5 to cast the third level spell she used on Roy when he opened the door, and she was a fighter for a while first.


That's what I thought, too, but looking back, we didn't see who cast what in that scene. It could be that she just Turned Undead, while the Daylight and Searing Light came from the other two. She's got a minimum of 3 cleric levels for the Cure Moderates she attempted, though.

Spanish_Paladin
2018-08-03, 02:08 PM
Yeah!! Durkon is free!!!, party at Valhalla!! :)

Grey_Wolf_c
2018-08-03, 02:09 PM
That's what I thought, too, but looking back, we didn't see who cast what in that scene. It could be that she just Turned Undead, while the Daylight and Searing Light came from the other two. She's got a minimum of 3 cleric levels for the Cure Moderates she attempted, though.

The other two did not prepare combat spells. They say so a few strips after (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1099.html).

Grey Wolf

Chei
2018-08-03, 02:10 PM
Well I think Belkars change in alignment towards neutrality, his bond with the crazy shogun old guy, (Lord Shojo?, Shinjo? God its been so long) is leading up to Belkar's death being a defining moment to allow him to rest in chaotic neutral afterlife (what plane would be in d&d universe?)

The Abyss or Pandemonium; I forget which.

TRH
2018-08-03, 02:11 PM
The other two did not prepare combat spells. They say so a few strips after.

Grey Wolf

Daylight might not be considered a combat spell. Actually, must not, since at least one of the two cast it, but that still leaves Searing Light, so I concede the point.

Chei
2018-08-03, 02:15 PM
That's what I thought, too, but looking back, we didn't see who cast what in that scene. It could be that she just Turned Undead, while the Daylight and Searing Light came from the other two. She's got a minimum of 3 cleric levels for the Cure Moderates she attempted, though.

One of those Cure Moderates was an attempted Cure Serious (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1123.html), so that's definitely a minimum of 5 cleric levels.

... and I note you already got the point. Nevermind!

Darth Paul
2018-08-03, 02:20 PM
"I reserve the right to resume punching you very hard in the face." :smallamused:

Can we get that on a T-shirt please?

Derian
2018-08-03, 02:28 PM
New comic is up.

MINRAH!

*Squeeing intensifies*

AlurenDarkfire
2018-08-03, 02:29 PM
I imagine theres gonna be a payoff for the giant frog battle soon. The one where Roy told Durkon "New party rule: if a party member is being eaten, go ahead and do something". Like some Deva telling Durkon "You let yourself get turned into a vampire, no paradise for you", and he can comeback with "I was following my leaders orders and saved a life" or something like that.

SlashDash
2018-08-03, 02:29 PM
Belkar might not make it into any plane if his death is Snarl related.

Anarion
2018-08-03, 02:30 PM
Good to see Durkon’s soul free. I wonder if he’s done or if they’ll resurrect him. Also nice that dwarf souls gets the exact same cloud to start out.

Peelee
2018-08-03, 02:31 PM
I imagine theres gonna be a payoff for the giant frog battle soon. The one where Roy told Durkon "New party rule: if a party member is being eaten, go ahead and do something". Like some Deva telling Durkon "You let yourself get turned into a vampire, no paradise for you", and he can comeback with "I was following my leaders orders and saved a life" or something like that.

There was payoff for that. Just two strips ago, in fact.

hroþila
2018-08-03, 02:32 PM
I imagine theres gonna be a payoff for the giant frog battle soon. The one where Roy told Durkon "New party rule: if a party member is being eaten, go ahead and do something". Like some Deva telling Durkon "You let yourself get turned into a vampire, no paradise for you", and he can comeback with "I was following my leaders orders and saved a life" or something like that.
Your hypothetical deva uses a very weird definition of "let".

JumboWheat01
2018-08-03, 02:35 PM
It's an odd day when you start thinking the cat is the sane man of the group, rather than the straight-laced fighter.

Matt620
2018-08-03, 02:52 PM
My joy at seeing Minrah again is only slightly mitigated by the fact that I know, for truth, the cat has just as many emotional issues as everyone else in that group.

Mordar
2018-08-03, 02:52 PM
But that makes the unexpected expected. So you're now expecting it, and then BAM! You get hit by the Spanish Inquisition.

Nope, ever since 1981 the Spanish Inquisition has joined the ranks of the Expected.

Thank you, Mr. Brooks.

- M

Psychronia
2018-08-03, 02:56 PM
Welcome back Durkon. The strange freedom of death.

Minrah dedicated to going down fighting, I'll give her that. ...Does fighting after you're dead even do anything though? Like...this came up when Roy died too, but does Durkon even have any hit points to lose?

LuPuWei
2018-08-03, 02:58 PM
This was a nice, lighter comic... Durkon's last line just wins...

Ravens_cry
2018-08-03, 03:02 PM
This was a nice, lighter comic... Durkon's last line just wins...
Of course. Cat's don't get mental issues because they know who and what they are: rulers of all time and space and all contained within.

Hague
2018-08-03, 03:04 PM
Could be Bytopia, where Mount Clangeddin would be in traditional cosmology, judging on the hills or it could be Ysgard, since the Norse pantheon inhabits Ysgard in the DnD sourcebooks, and Valhalla is a domain in Ysgard. Even though it's a plane of Good and Chaos, the individual divine domains inside it can be of differing alignments. The fundamental difference between Celestia and Bytopia is that Celestia is a plane of personal betterment and enlightenment and Bytopia is a land of dedication to wholesome, hard work.

Shining Wrath
2018-08-03, 03:04 PM
Welcome back Durkon. The strange freedom of death.

Minrah dedicated to going down fighting, I'll give her that. ...Does fighting after you're dead even do anything though? Like...this came up when Roy died too, but does Durkon even have any hit points to lose?

She believes that DurkonT used Plane Shift to visit Valhalla in the all-too-solid-undead-flesh, since he died after she did, and is there to kill her soul in the afterlife, which I did not know was a thing. It is for fiends, but I never heard of it for departed souls. Of course, she, too, may have 0 ranks in Knowledge(religion).

Anyway, if that were the still unliving vampire there, a punch in the nose might actually hurt it - and it might not regenerate on an Upper Plane.


It's an odd day when you start thinking the cat is the sane man of the group, rather than the straight-laced fighter.

Pardon me, but Roy's boots have no laces to be straight.

Ruck
2018-08-03, 03:08 PM
I think the Order already has its quota of chaotic evil murderers on staff, though they should keep her resume on file in case something opens up soon.

Tongue-in-cheek,

Brian P.

Hey, she could be Chaotic Neutral! And I think at this point we only have confirmation that she's an *attempted* murderer.


Actually, "I carry my fists in my heart!" was the punch line.

Booooooo. (By which I mean, that's pretty good.)


Pardon me, but Roy's boots have no laces to be straight.

And his pan was never alive, and neither was anyone else's, so that doesn't even make sense!

Yirggzmb
2018-08-03, 03:24 PM
Yeah, way to go Minrah! You show him!

I mean, she's mistaken about the circumstances, but yeah! Good to see her still fighting.

Kareasint
2018-08-03, 03:32 PM
Of course. Cat's don't get mental issues because they know who and what they are: rulers of all time and space and all contained within.

Plus, they know what's up (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5h_MQ9wW2TY)

MartianInvader
2018-08-03, 03:36 PM
She believes that DurkonT used Plane Shift to visit Valhalla in the all-too-solid-undead-flesh, since he died after she did, and is there to kill her soul in the afterlife, which I did not know was a thing. It is for fiends, but I never heard of it for departed souls. Of course, she, too, may have 0 ranks in Knowledge(religion).
Well, we know that some evil plane-shifters (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0497.html) are at least willing to find out if they can kill dead souls. And from the same comic we know for sure that dead souls can kill plane-shifters.

Jaxzan Proditor
2018-08-03, 03:44 PM
I’m looking forward to more scenes in the afterlife! I’m guessing that this one will be interrupted by some action back in the real world pretty soon, however.

FlawedParadigm
2018-08-03, 03:57 PM
I’m looking forward to more scenes in the afterlife! I’m guessing that this one will be interrupted by some action back in the real world pretty soon, however.

Nah. The entire rest of the Order will remain unconscious until they starve to death and the whole rest of the comic will be from various afterlives.

Rogar Demonblud
2018-08-03, 03:59 PM
She believes that DurkonT used Plane Shift to visit Valhalla in the all-too-solid-undead-flesh, since he died after she did, and is there to kill her soul in the afterlife, which I did not know was a thing. It is for fiends, but I never heard of it for departed souls. Of course, she, too, may have 0 ranks in Knowledge(religion).

Technically, they aren't souls. They're now petitioners, a type of Outsider.

Shining Wrath
2018-08-03, 04:07 PM
Technically, they aren't souls. They're now petitioners, a type of Outsider.

I think that's a Forgotten Realms truth, but not necessarily true for other D&D cosmologies. However, the sapient MartinInvader points out that while Roy was talking to his Grandfather in the afterlife, an evil adventuring party tried to kill them (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0497.html). And failed, miserably, due to high level fighters with a magic sword plus a archon knowing how to enlighten a drow.

Evidently the living and the dead can interact violently, even on upper planes. Such is the way of the D&D universe.

Pampukin
2018-08-03, 04:11 PM
I think that's a Forgotten Realms truth, but not necessarily true for other D&D cosmologies. However, the sapient MartinInvader points out that while Roy was talking to his Grandfather in the afterlife, an evil adventuring party tried to kill them (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0497.html). And failed, miserably, due to high level fighters with a magic sword plus a archon knowing how to enlighten a drow.

Evidently the living and the dead can interact violently, even on upper planes. Such is the way of the D&D universe.

I never noticed that the sound effect of Roy cutting that armor guy was "quarter" and now im wondering what that sounds like.

DaggerPen
2018-08-03, 04:24 PM
Huh, that definitely wasn't what I was expecting yet. I wonder if they'll raise Minrah, and she'll tell them the truth about Durkon so they'll know they can raise him? That's a lotta diamonds, though

Shatteredtower
2018-08-03, 04:39 PM
I needed the laugh that last panel gave me, even with how much that laughing hurt. Thank you, Giant. Really looking forward to the next few as well.

tufttugger
2018-08-03, 04:39 PM
The Giant makes a point to have Durkon mention how he's wanted to punch himself for 'days', to remind us of the scale of time in the comics relative to how long in real life it's been since this happened to Durkon. So how much time actually elapsed in the comic since he was vamped? 1 month? A couple weeks? They did have quite a bit of flying on the Mechane in there...

Rogar Demonblud
2018-08-03, 04:46 PM
Less than two weeks. Belkar snarks about it after the frost giant fight.

Morquard
2018-08-03, 05:47 PM
A few pages ago Durkon's father and his heroic death were a center piece of the plot. Now Durkon is in the Afterlife.

I think the two are going to meet.

Particle_Man
2018-08-03, 05:51 PM
I notice that Durkon's holy symbol is brighter than Minrah's. Is that a function of level? Of holiness? Did Durkon just spring for the awesome model when alive?

Clistenes
2018-08-03, 05:52 PM
Go Minrah!

"The cat's probably fine."

Let's see:
1) cuddles with a lizard
2) doesn't chase the talking bird
3) was owned by Shojo and Belkar
4) calously eviscerates commoners

If ever there was a cat with emotional issues...


I see you're not owned by a cat. All of these are perfectly fine.

Also, don't try to comprehend cat logic, it's... weird. You're just a mere human, both of us have just as much chance understanding cats as an ant has understanding a human.

Yeah. Years ago, I used to have two female cats, and a Netherland dwarf rabbit, who was very old and had a bad leg and my father decided on his own to allow them to play together. Rather than killing and eating him, the cats licked him clean every day... we humans were unable to keep him free of fleas, but the cats managed to do it! They also allowed the rabbit to eat from their bowls (the rabbit developed a taste for chicken and fish bones...).

One of those two cats was a jealous, vicious yandere who attacked the other one every time she saw a member of the family to caress her... She also tried to kill my dogs (one of which was a hunting dog, and the other a husky mix) every time she saw them, but, on the other hand, she had sex with my sister's horny yorkie...

Cats are weird and unpredictable...

TRH
2018-08-03, 05:54 PM
Nah. The entire rest of the Order will remain unconscious until they starve to death and the whole rest of the comic will be from various afterlives.

Book 7 Working Title: Don't Split the Party - Planar Edition

Perficio
2018-08-03, 05:57 PM
A few pages ago Durkon's father and his heroic death were a center piece of the plot. Now Durkon is in the Afterlife.

I think the two are going to meet.

...Aw man, I hope so. It'd be good for him to have that chance, and a nice echo of Roy's less than welcome reunion.

The MunchKING
2018-08-03, 05:57 PM
Is he going to get cross-examined by a deva as Roy was? Because that might be interesting. I suspect Durkon might have an easier time, but he's still going to have to answer for Belkar and, possibly, V.

I don't think he knows of V's worst excesses. Although now that I think about it he was complicit with V using people as slave labor and his only problem with the slave being a makeshift diarrhea box was that he was still alive. So yeah he's got some squicky moments too.

sotanaht
2018-08-03, 05:58 PM
Are you kidding? Mr Scruffy lives with Belkar! He probably has the worst issues of them all.
First post best post

Ruck
2018-08-03, 06:00 PM
The joke in panel 11 is definitely a bit of meta "don't expect a detailed explanation of the mechanics of vampirism" work, but it's also a reminder that, as I think Rich even said on the forum here once, vampirism in OOTS-world still isn't very well understood at all. It's likely a resurrected Durkon is also the world's foremost vampire expert (and there's even an outside chance he has more knowledge of vampires than the entire rest of the living world put together).

Zack Norglad
2018-08-03, 06:35 PM
Hm, am I remembering it incorrectly or did the kitty get bitten by a vampire too?

Rogar Demonblud
2018-08-03, 06:37 PM
No. You might be thinking of the tiger Whiskers.

And Ruck, there was that one gnome in Tinkertown. Not sure which temple he was with but he knew what was up.

TRH
2018-08-03, 06:37 PM
Hm, am I remembering it incorrectly or did the kitty get bitten by a vampire too?

That was Veldrina's tiger. Didn't get drained the whole way, though, so no huge consequences.

Whelk
2018-08-03, 06:40 PM
The real Durkon and Minrah! This comic makes me so happy. I was worried her death was the last we'd see of Minrah, who quickly became one of my favorite characters. Her courage despite the odds being stacked heavily against her continues to inspire.

DaggerPen
2018-08-03, 06:44 PM
Probably his majesty, Mr. Scruffy, is too dignified to eat crow.

This made me laugh.


Well, like I said, "Is benefiting =/= Thinks is Right." One of the key facets of a Good alignment, I think, is knowing that what's personally beneficial isn't necessarily what's moral, or best for everyone.

As for Thor's alignment, most people here seem to think he's Chaotic Good. I disagree, since the implications of letting clerics be two steps away from their gods can be pretty troubling. You could suddenly have Good clerics of Evil Gods, and vice versa, and I don't think the Giant would want to allow that. And if you think Thor is Chaotic and Neutral or Evil...well, then, being a cleric suddenly just means getting magic for free, I guess. Personally, I'd rather we stick with cleric alignment helping at least a teeny, weeny bit in narrowing down the ideals of their patrons.

Also, Thor emphasized the importance of giving mortals every opportunity to solve the Gate crisis. That sounds like a Good sentiment to me, or at least a Lawful one.

In any case, you made the original assertion not that Thor personally approves of the arrangement with Hel. Your only evidence is that he benefits from it. My counterargument is that a Good god would recognize the injustice in the arrangement despite the personal gain involved. If it's possible that Thor is Good, then that argues against your conclusion about his attitude towards the bet. I think you now need to prove why he's Neutral or Evil, or else why a Good character would take leave of their conscience on such a weighty issue, even though they'd be reminded of it every time they have to go debate Hel on a new case.

With respect to the one-step alignment rule, I tend to be of the opinion that it's fine for it to be more flexible on the ethical axis for gods who aren't Specifically Dedicated to Law/Chaos/Neutrality/etc.

That having been said, I am partial to the idea that I've seen proposed that Thor is a fundamentally Chaotic god who's being forced by his own sense of Goodness to act in a more Lawful fashion in order to play into the Honor system and save as many dwarves as he can in atonement for his ill-advised bet. It explains why every time we see him he just really does not feel Lawful, and yet his followers so overwhelmingly are.

Also, I didn't get to multiquote it b/c multiquote was behaving weird, but props to the "punchline" puns in this thread.

Rrmcklin
2018-08-03, 06:52 PM
I'll never understand why people get so attached to characters like Minrah.

Ruck
2018-08-03, 06:59 PM
No. You might be thinking of the tiger Whiskers.

And Ruck, there was that one gnome in Tinkertown. Not sure which temple he was with but he knew what was up.

#968, panels 6 and 7 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0968.html)? Yeah, he does. Not as much as Durkon does by now, I reckon, but enough not to buy into the "still Durkon, just technically Evil now" story that Vampire!Durkon was pushing. Oddly, though, it doesn't seem like even that much is particularly common information.

Mandor
2018-08-03, 07:02 PM
Honestly, I'd like to see Durkon read a Deva the riot act about Self-Fulfilling Prophecies and how things might have been fine if he wasn't exiled at all.
I mean, granted, things might have been worse, too.

But really Durkon's life has been directly manipulated by the gods more than most.
I certainly don't think he should bear complete responsibility for some of the situations he was put in.
And he was never formally Team Leader to be responsible for Belkar or V in the way that Roy was.

Snails
2018-08-03, 07:05 PM
The joke in panel 11 is definitely a bit of meta "don't expect a detailed explanation of the mechanics of vampirism" work, but it's also a reminder that, as I think Rich even said on the forum here once, vampirism in OOTS-world still isn't very well understood at all. It's likely a resurrected Durkon is also the world's foremost vampire expert (and there's even an outside chance he has more knowledge of vampires than the entire rest of the living world put together).

Yes, it is a meta joke that means multiple things. The more important one is that we, the Readers, are not to expect a mechanical explanation about what Durkon just did. The moment happened as depicted, and if the visuals do not inform you adequately, a little added exposition will not help.

In fact, it is highly likely that the Order will get no explanation whatsoever. Against the odds, Belkar dusted Durkula. Belkar was too emotionally involved in his own cathartic berserker attack to notice any important details. Durkon will not clarify. Hilgya had other things on her mind. Everyone else was unconscious.

Rrmcklin
2018-08-03, 07:11 PM
Honestly, I'd like to see Durkon read a Deva the riot act about Self-Fulfilling Prophecies and how things might have been fine if he wasn't exiled at all.
I mean, granted, things might have been worse, too.

But really Durkon's life has been directly manipulated by the gods more than most.
I certainly don't think he should bear complete responsibility for some of the situations he was put in.
And he was never formally Team Leader to be responsible for Belkar or V in the way that Roy was.

You say that as if Durkon doesn't expect the gods to get involved with people's lives or would challenge their divine wisdom. I feel as a cleric he'd expect the first to happen, and wouldn't be very big on the second.

And why are you assuming that Durkon would be held responsible for Belkar's or V's actions anyway.

NerdyKris
2018-08-03, 07:16 PM
Wouldn't have changed a thing? His and Roy's friendship literally started them on their current quest. Without Durkon, Xykon would have been successful a long time ago.

Why would Durkon assume staying home would have been better? Does he even know about the prophecy? As far as he's aware, it was an order, not a prophecy.

He also doesn't know about Vaarsuvius's familicide.

Nazzo, the 102nd
2018-08-03, 07:23 PM
Is that a reference to Gollum on the 3rd panel?

JumboWheat01
2018-08-03, 07:24 PM
Nope, ever since 1981 the Spanish Inquisition has joined the ranks of the Expected.

Thank you, Mr. Brooks.

- M

What about the Gnomish Inquisition?


Pardon me, but Roy's boots have no laces to be straight.

Touché good sir and/or madame. Touché.

WolvesbaneIII
2018-08-03, 07:39 PM
I don't think that there is a cleric of Hel with a high enough level left on OoTS world to cast such a spell resurrection for Durkula ... so I think the evil spirit is back with Hel. And OoTS if they think quickly will have the ashes.

:sigh:

A clerical error is an error on the part of an office worker, often a secretary or personal assistant. It is a phrase which can also be used as an excuse to deflect blame away from specific individuals, such as high-powered executives, and instead redirect it to the more anonymous clerical staff.

that is to say a clerical error on the part of the divine sent both durkons to Valhalla instead of the 1 real durkon, instead of sending durkula to hel or the negative energy plane.

And some how durkula thinks he's the real one, for a while anyway.

woweedd
2018-08-03, 07:40 PM
Hmmm...Curious.

Stabbey
2018-08-03, 07:42 PM
Is that a reference to Gollum on the 3rd panel?

I'm guessing it's a reference to OOtS # 1131.

DougTheHead
2018-08-03, 07:42 PM
It'll be interesting to see which possible interaction the story is going to emphasize: Durkon meeting his god, or Durkon meeting his father.

DaggerPen
2018-08-03, 07:51 PM
It'll be interesting to see which possible interaction the story is going to emphasize: Durkon meeting his god, or Durkon meeting his father.

As fun as it would be to go all TAZ, my money's on Durkon meeting his father. While Hel's played a starring role in this arc, this is still a comic primarily about mere mortals, and with Durkon recently having learned that he has a son, plus all of the emphasis on his mother's influence and his found family, the ground is, IMO, more set for him to meet his pa.

ratfox
2018-08-03, 07:53 PM
Huh. Durkon lost his shield, but not his armor.
Well, it is all well and good for a dwarf to stop being alive, but it would be completely unacceptable for a dwarf to stop being a dwarf.

b_jonas
2018-08-03, 07:54 PM
Also, don't try to comprehend cat logic, it's... weird. You're just a mere human, both of us have just as much chance understanding cats as an ant has understanding a human. Yep. I heard that cats like to toy with their pray before killing them, so it occured to me that Mr. Scruffy might just be letting the bird live for now while they both know they'll remain close to the Order and each other, but that doesn't really ring true even for me.

Minrah dedicated to going down fighting, I'll give her that. I think it's not really the actual fighting that bothers Durkon. He was never afraid of someone fighting him per se, except when it was trees. He's bothered because Minrah thought he was Greg.

and is there to kill her soul in the afterlife, which I did not know was a thing. Then I recommend that you read Casey and Andy strip #20 (http://www.galactanet.com/comic/view.php?strip=20). I promise it's a stand-alone gag-a-day strip that you will understand without knowing the background of Casey and Andy in advance.

Well, we know that some evil plane-shifters (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0497.html) are at least willing to find out if they can kill dead souls. And from the same comic we know for sure that dead souls can kill plane-shifters. Makes sense, since their goal is probably to defeat dead souls and get XP and loot, not specifically to kill them.

The_Weirdo
2018-08-03, 08:04 PM
Durkon's prone to attracting the misguided-but-it-makes-sense ire of blondes of his own kind.

Nazzo, the 102nd
2018-08-03, 08:08 PM
I'm guessing it's a reference to OOtS # 1131.

Well, yes of course, but ALSO a reference to Gollum. Particularly that scene from the movies where he talks to his "evil" self and it goes away. Then the "good" Gollum jumps in joy, saying precisely "We did it, we're free".

tleilaxu
2018-08-03, 08:17 PM
Hmmm...Curious.

look at his laces people!

Aerysil
2018-08-03, 08:17 PM
Snif, Durkon. Yay Durkon! Snif, Durkon. I can't make up my mind!

wickedcoolghost
2018-08-03, 08:57 PM
TRH,

I can say that I find your arguments persuasive.

Whether Thor would be persuaded, or...just shrug, drink an ocean of ale, and bed a goddess...that is a question that is hard to answer.

If Thor is really Good in a manner that I can understand, he would not have agreed to the bet in the first place (for reasons to complicated to get into right now).

If Thor is really Chaotic in a manner that I can understand, he would not have agreed to the bet in the first place, because even the God of Stupidity would not bet on "honorable" behavior if he is Chaotic.

I am just going to shrug and guess that Law/Chaos/Good/Evil do not necessarily apply to the Norse/Northern gods in a simple way.

Not a DnD expert, but I think you're forgetting how Chaotic Good works. If Thor is BOTH Chaotic AND Good, then there's a clear connection between honor (eg goodness) and cheating (eg chaos) that would easily accommodate the bet--assuming, of course, that Thor is smart enough to understand what Loki was doing in the first place (which, mythological Thor, he...he just isn't). There's nothing stopping Robin Hood from being honorable OR from cheating after all.

Something else to consider is that, given that he cheated, fewer dwarves are sent to Hel, which is a net good; as well, many dwarves are fighting when they die, and a not-insignificant number must die fighting for Good, which is an additional net good.

ETA: This came out slightly more antagonistic than I intended! Sorry about that.

Perficio
2018-08-03, 09:08 PM
look at his laces people!
....Huh, good catch. Those are the boots Durkula was wearing - that Durkon died in. Durkon's soul visualization was wearing different shoes.... have we seen him (Durkon) wearing those shoes (the ones he was wearing in talks with Durkula)in any of the flashbacks? Because now I'm wondering if Durkon had the different shoes than he died in as added symbolism of being hung up on some memory.

ti'esar
2018-08-03, 09:18 PM
Not entirely sure where all this talk about shoes came from, but Durkon and the vampire spirit were actually wearing the same type of boots all along; Durkon was just always at an angle. (And I'm pretty sure they're just an art upgrade of his preexisting boots).

Perficio
2018-08-03, 09:30 PM
I see two laces on Durkula's, and only one lace on Durkon's. The red tendrils around his ankles don't seem placed right to cover all of a top lace.

Rrmcklin
2018-08-03, 09:38 PM
Not a DnD expert, but I think you're forgetting how Chaotic Good works. If Thor is BOTH Chaotic AND Good, then there's a clear connection between honor (eg goodness) and cheating (eg chaos) that would easily accommodate the bet--assuming, of course, that Thor is smart enough to understand what Loki was doing in the first place (which, mythological Thor, he...he just isn't). There's nothing stopping Robin Hood from being honorable OR from cheating after all.

Something else to consider is that, given that he cheated, fewer dwarves are sent to Hel, which is a net good; as well, many dwarves are fighting when they die, and a not-insignificant number must die fighting for Good, which is an additional net good.

ETA: This came out slightly more antagonistic than I intended! Sorry about that.

I feel like the bigger question is why are we talking like Thor is the one who made the deal, when Thor was clearly drunk and unaware of what was happening, while Loki did the actual broaching of the topic and setting the terms.

And for whatever reason it doesn't seem like they can just get out of it, otherwise both Thor and Hel probably would want to (albeit for different reasons).

ti'esar
2018-08-03, 09:38 PM
I see two laces on Durkula's, and only one lace on Durkon's. The red tendrils around his ankles don't seem placed right to cover all of a top lace.

He has two laces when we see him from the front. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1130.html) Like I said, I think it's just a drawing angle thing.

KorvinStarmast
2018-08-03, 09:41 PM
Also, wouldn't you rather have Hilgya?


Hilgya realizes that the Durkon she believed in would never have exposed his chest to the stake
She and Durkon wed
Hilgya wants to take Kudzu with them but Grandma Sigdi goes Full Grandma on her, and Hilgya realizes that she isn't high enough level to defeat Sigdi in Full Grandma
Kudzu is left in Sigdi's care while Durkon and Hilgya, happily married power couple, travel north to Destroy Xykon, for he is powerful undead and lo, they are such gross, icky things (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1107.html).


Durkon would marry Hilgya to be a father to Kudzu; Hilgya might marry Durkon for the same reason, and also because she realizes she wronged him in her thoughts. This also allows Rich to fulfill his stated goal of adding more female characters to the story. I find your idea intriguing, but I don't think Rich is going to go that far.

Perficio
2018-08-03, 09:48 PM
He has two laces when we see him from the front. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1130.html) Like I said, I think it's just a drawing angle thing.

Oh, you're right! I didn't think to check that panel, thanks.

jwhouk
2018-08-03, 10:11 PM
He has two laces when we see him from the front. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1130.html) Like I said, I think it's just a drawing angle thing.

It is, because when Durkula pulls him in close for a threat early on in this chapter, you can see two laces. I think it's a factor of Durkon being tied up that makes the two laces invisible.

And I'd also like to advertise for Ockham's Razors here - "A close, comfortable, and simple shave, for the easiest price!"

Shoelessgdowar
2018-08-03, 10:29 PM
Unknown. Crayon story, so double unknown.
Which punch line? In panel 5, panel 7 (I carry my fists in my heart!) or in the last panel? :smallbiggrin:
As Bruce Lee once said in one of his films: expect the unexpected.


Actually, "I carry my fists in my heart!" was the punch line.

I think that was actually a Jab Line, could be wrong, but punch lines need to have real impact, and they have to be perfectly timed, otherwise they migjt go over your head or hit below the belt.



Indeed, great punch line.


This made me laugh.



With respect to the one-step alignment rule, I tend to be of the opinion that it's fine for it to be more flexible on the ethical axis for gods who aren't Specifically Dedicated to Law/Chaos/Neutrality/etc.

That having been said, I am partial to the idea that I've seen proposed that Thor is a fundamentally Chaotic god who's being forced by his own sense of Goodness to act in a more Lawful fashion in order to play into the Honor system and save as many dwarves as he can in atonement for his ill-advised bet. It explains why every time we see him he just really does not feel Lawful, and yet his followers so overwhelmingly are.

Also, I didn't get to multiquote it b/c multiquote was behaving weird, but props to the "punchline" puns in this thread.

I could have sworn the punch lines were those things around Minrah's fist when she goes *WHOP!* and *POW!* to Durkon.

BriarHobbit
2018-08-03, 11:48 PM
I am glad that we are seeing Durkon's afterlife. Greg getting punished for failure merits no more than a panel in my view, but Durkon has people to speak with.

Soon enough, the drums of obligation will call him back to life and duty.

Quebbster
2018-08-04, 03:31 AM
I wonder if we are going to meet Durkon's grandfather in the afterlife. It has certainly been foreshadowed that he is in Valhalla.

Sloanzilla
2018-08-04, 04:22 AM
"I carry my fists in my heart"= 80s power ballad

neothoron
2018-08-04, 06:12 AM
So Durkon has at least 10 minutes in the Afterlife.

I think it is more likely that he will meet Thor and Odin than his family (either his father or his grandfather), for the following reasons:

1. That is a unique opportunity for the gods to communicate with their clerics (“don’t **** this up” to Redcloak)
2. Narratively speaking, Durkon’s family meeting, if he has one, should happen with his mother, and possibly his aunts/uncles, as we know a lot more about them than about either Durkon’s pa or his grandpa (I think we have one strip where Durkon’s father talks, and no spoken line, nor any characterization, for his grandfather)

I am not sure whether I want Hel to interact with Durkon (“How did you die?”) or not (“Gontor*, you are now my High Priest.” “But, my lady, I am only a humble follower, I cannot lead!” *Hel sighs*)

Casimir-Ivanova
2018-08-04, 06:31 AM
Durkon's prone to attracting the misguided-but-it-makes-sense ire of blondes of his own kind.

Reminds me of Dr Who, who had his fair share of women slapping him. :P

Also, did anyone add to the list of Mr Scruffy's badassitude "Chasing a TIGER across an airship."? :smalltongue:

And as to the whole "how vampirism works" thing? My Obeah vampire was asked that on many an occasion in a V:TM game, and because he was a throwback healer instead of a damage dealing Valeren Salubri, his response was "If I knew how I worked, I would have changed it by now."

Shoelessgdowar
2018-08-04, 07:54 AM
So Durkon has at least 10 minutes in the Afterlife.

I think it is more likely that he will meet Thor and Odin than his family (either his father or his grandfather), for the following reasons:

1. That is a unique opportunity for the gods to communicate with their clerics (“don’t **** this up” to Redcloak)
2. Narratively speaking, Durkon’s family meeting, if he has one, should happen with his mother, and possibly his aunts/uncles, as we know a lot more about them than about either Durkon’s pa or his grandpa (I think we have one strip where Durkon’s father talks, and no spoken line, nor any characterization, for his grandfather)

I am not sure whether I want Hel to interact with Durkon (“How did you die?”) or not (“Gontor*, you are now my High Priest.” “But, my lady, I am only a humble follower, I cannot lead!” *Hel sighs*)

Durkula died in combat, he wouldn't go to Hel. Gontor is not the new High Priest, they are a Frontarchy (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1017.html), as Gontor himself said, Mace (Pronounced like Macy) Grayedout is the High Priestess of Hel, and she is stuck at the Godsmoot until further notice.

Rizzer
2018-08-04, 08:36 AM
... I think Durkon speaking to Thor face to face might get him to rethink his taste in deity. It would be a great twist if Durkon returned to life, only to need to find a new god asap because he finally realized Thor wasn't worthy of him.

Might have been Odin's plan all along... ;)

Talion
2018-08-04, 09:01 AM
I'm probably a bit late to the party, but with Durkon's death and the prophecy in mind...

What are the odds that Firmament will be suffering an outbreak of Sphinx Pox in a few weeks? After all, we've been informed that the party as a whole (along with the crew of the Mechane, and ESPECIALLY Mister Scruffy) are all infected, and they've been meandering through the temple of Thor, a feasting hall, and who knows how many tunnels of the town. And they still have more places to go besides, like the council meetings.

Or will they shake it off with that good old Dwarven fortitude?

zimmerwald1915
2018-08-04, 09:08 AM
And for whatever reason it doesn't seem like they can just get out of it, otherwise both Thor and Hel probably would want to (albeit for different reasons).
"No backsies" would seem to be in play. Probably why Loki pushed for it to begin with.

Alcore
2018-08-04, 09:39 AM
As for Thor's alignment, most people here seem to think he's Chaotic Good. I disagree, since the implications of letting clerics be two steps away from their gods can be pretty troubling. You could suddenly have Good clerics of Evil Gods, and vice versa, and I don't think the Giant would want to allow that. And if you think Thor is Chaotic and Neutral or Evil...well, then, being a cleric suddenly just means getting magic for free, I guess. Personally, I'd rather we stick with cleric alignment helping at least a teeny, weeny bit in narrowing down the ideals of their patrons.

Actually as detailed in the same book that stated out gods; a cleric of a Pantheon can be of any alignment found within. Thor does not need to be LG or even NG for worshipers with LG.


It's a tiny clause in a book most don't read.

Kish
2018-08-04, 09:46 AM
By-the-book D&D, Thor does need to be LG, NG, or LN to have Lawful Good clerics of Thor, as distinct from clerics of the Northern Pantheon, or non-spellcasting worshipers of Thor.

It's one of the things specific campaign settings very often change, though.

Borris
2018-08-04, 09:47 AM
I'm surprised no one has commented on the "me teeth're square." joke. Looking at the image, you can see Durkon's are almost perfect, mathematical squares. Not like those silly, awkward shapes you see on real-world humans.

Peelee
2018-08-04, 09:59 AM
almost perfect, mathematical squares.

That "almost" means rectangles.:smalltongue:

Oxenstierna
2018-08-04, 10:27 AM
An interesting change in direction. Another ‘Dragonball’ journey gaining new powers and character knowledge in the afterlife before resurrection? (Like Roy) Or some more exposition on the snarl and the gods’ conflict? Either way, I’m tuning in to find out more!

Sloanzilla
2018-08-04, 10:36 AM
Durkon should res himself, just to cause the "that's not how the rules are supposed to work" people to explode.

Casimir-Ivanova
2018-08-04, 10:49 AM
Durkon should res himself, just to cause the "that's not how the rules are supposed to work" people to explode.

Lifegiver (in the Godbound ttrpg) allows a Godbound to resurrect a mortal that's been dead for no more than 24 hours. I often wonder if that includes undead. That would be a particularly fascinating battle against a necromancer. Godbound resurrects the dead to life and fight for him, necromancer reanimates the dead to fight for him.

Oberon-Well, you died ages back and had your spirit trapped in it's own body while a spirt of negative energy ran your body, but technically you only keeled over 5 minutes ago. Soooo...

Perficio
2018-08-04, 10:49 AM
Maybe he can get the materials off another band of adventurers.

nabcif
2018-08-04, 10:54 AM
Durkon should res himself, just to cause the "that's not how the rules are supposed to work" people to explode.

Nitpick: I believe you'll find that only our heads explode. Page 43 of Book of Pedantic Forumites, if memory serves.

Particle_Man
2018-08-04, 11:22 AM
By-the-book D&D, Thor does need to be LG, NG, or LN to have Lawful Good clerics of Thor, as distinct from clerics of the Northern Pantheon, or non-spellcasting worshipers of Thor.

It's one of the things specific campaign settings very often change, though.

And Durkon is a cleric of Thor specifically and not the pantheon as a whole. Maybe Thor is NG?

Hekko
2018-08-04, 11:28 AM
I'm probably a bit late to the party, but with Durkon's death and the prophecy in mind...

What are the odds that Firmament will be suffering an outbreak of Sphinx Pox in a few weeks? After all, we've been informed that the party as a whole (along with the crew of the Mechane, and ESPECIALLY Mister Scruffy) are all infected, and they've been meandering through the temple of Thor, a feasting hall, and who knows how many tunnels of the town. And they still have more places to go besides, like the council meetings.

Or will they shake it off with that good old Dwarven fortitude?

Do we know how long it takes until the infected cat gets infectious (the latency period)? I know that Hel said that everyone on the ship was infected already, but she could have been disregarding that it takes time, just as she was when she waited for the outbreak to happen.

zimmerwald1915
2018-08-04, 11:44 AM
And Durkon is a cleric of Thor specifically and not the pantheon as a whole. Maybe Thor is NG?
Couldn't be. Thor is an oaf and a buffoon who doesn't see projects through to the end, and those are all purely Chaotic traits.