Lando's Back!

[russdm]

Read an article about shooting starting for Episode 9 and Billy Dee Williams is in the cast. So Lando may be showing up in the movie. I am really excited. Of course, JJ is directing, so hard to say what kind of quality story we end up getting...

What do people think?

[Peelee]

Read an article about shooting starting for Episode 9 and Billy Dee Williams is in the cast. So Lando may be showing up in the movie. I am really excited. Of course, JJ is directing, so hard to say what kind of quality story we end up getting...

What do people think?

Damned excited. I will never not be damned excited for a new Star Wars movie.

[Rogar Demonblud]

I have to admit, I'm wary about them adding in Carrie Fisher with old unused footage. So many ways that could be done wrong.

[Mightymosy]

I'm not interested in 9, but on paper it seems like a good idea to havd Lando on board.

[BWR]

Well, they probably can't **** him up worse than they did Luke...

[Mightymosy]

Well, they probably can't **** him up worse than they did Luke...

Since that's almost impossible, I agree.

So far, I was saying Lando fans should be glad that he just wasn't there, because at least then he wasn't screwed up. I mean, Leia and Han were screwed up as well, just not nearly as badly as Luke Fakewalker.

Maybe they pull an Ackbar with Lando?

I don't think so, if I have to guess.
You can say about JJ Abrams what you want, but at least he *tries* to make cool characters. Unlike RJ, he wants you to like your favourite characters. You can argue that his Star Trek was not *real* Star Trek, and I'd say you have a point, but at least he tried to make cool "alternate" versions of your favourite characters.

So, I think Lando will play a good role, but ultimately not the most important one. Can't have two important black people in the same movie, after all. (and again, I miss the color Blue - how do I write Blue on phone?)

[Devonix]

Am I looking forward to it Yeah. Am I expecting brilliance naw. This is JJ Abrams. It'll be fun but not too much more than that.

[Ranxerox]

It's only good if they can resist the impulse to kill him. I'm not real hopeful on this front.

[napoleon_in_rag]

I don't know. I don't like the portrayals of any of the old characters in TFA and TLJ. Even Han in TFA feels "off". I am not optimistic about Episode IX at all.

[Devonix]

It's only good if they can resist the impulse to kill him. I'm not real hopeful on this front.

I disagree. Him living or him dying shouldn't affect how good the story is. If they have a good reason for him to die, then I'm all for it.

[Peelee]

I disagree. Him living or him dying shouldn't affect how good the story is. If they have a good reason for him to die, then I'm all for it.

Seconded. Especially as one of the ones on here who actually liked Luke's final twenty minutes.

[The Fury]

It's only good if they can resist the impulse to kill him. I'm not real hopeful on this front.

Same. The track record with classic Star Wars characters has been less than encouraging so far. Though Chewbacca's still around.


I disagree. Him living or him dying shouldn't affect how good the story is. If they have a good reason for him to die, then I'm all for it.

I'm not so sure. If Lando getting killed is something that we're already predicting, it's already lost some of its intended punch.

[Devonix]

Same. The track record with classic Star Wars characters has been less than encouraging so far. Though Chewbacca's still around.



I'm not so sure. If Lando getting killed is something that we're already predicting, it's already lost some of its intended punch.

There are a million ways that he could die, good or bad. And just because something is predictable doesn't mean it's a bad story. Some of the best stories have predictable endings. Because if something is consistant, then it has to be predictable. Everystory is going to have at least some people who predicted it. Unless it's something completely out of left field and out of the realm of possibility.

[Rogar Demonblud]

(and again, I miss the color Blue - how do I write Blue on phone?)

If you phone 'keyboard' includes square brackets use them to replace the quote marks in this: "color=blue" and "/color".

[Mightymosy]

If you phone 'keyboard' includes square brackets use them to replace the quote marks in this: "color=blue" and "/color".

Color me blue
Thanks! (if this works ;-) )

[Rogar Demonblud]

It does. This also lets you use other tags if you have trouble clicking on them. I'd never be able to bold things otherwise.

[Darth Ultron]

It likely will be horrible.

Lando will come back and be like ''I was playing Shuffleboard on Retiermuis Six and turned off my radio..yuck yuck yuck, so how is the galaxy.

There will not even be one second of Londo finding out about the deaths of Han and Luke or reacting in any way, as the whole movie will be...pew pew..'star wars'. Like maybe Rae will hand Londo the silly fake dice and the lightsaber, and Londo will frown..

And then there will be...the dumbest plot ever....like the Rebel Terrorists discover the Empire has an OFF button, and if they can just press the button, they can turn the Empire..er...off.

And Londo, Chewy, and CGI/Cut/Copy/Paste Lea will be stuck on the Millennium Falcon when the door handle breaks...and then the ship will..er..''run out of fuel" and they will hit a..er..space bump..and then the ship will fall into the sun and kill all three characters.

Oh...and they save Ben so he becomes a good guy, and Ben meets a pretty pink haired Wokkie named Moon Unit Blanket Co-Pilot Inspektor Hashtag ("Grrrr#####") and they will have a daughter, Heavynli-Princess.

And the two of them get a new cargo ship...the Millennial Falcon.

And Rae and Finn and Poe will all get married in a tri-union and they will have some kids: Disney, Billions, Facebook, and Phelony.

[Peelee]

New theory: Darth Ultron has never actually seen a Star Wars movie, and just spouts off everything he does based on third-hand accounts, possibly translated through multiple different languages before reaching him.

[Lemmy]

Meh... At this point, they could ressurect Alec Guiness and Carrie Fisher and I still wouldn't want to watch the new movie. TFA was ok, but very uninspired... And TLJ is just horrible all around, save for a few cool scenes.

[Dienekes]

I’m fairly “meh” about this one. Though I’m one of those that enjoyed TLJ more than TFA by leaps and bounds. JJ is decent at setting up stories but I’ve never really seen him conclude one in any way decently. And with the outcry after TLJ I can’t see them making anything but the safest most by the book action flick I’ve seen since TFA.

I’ll probably still end up seeing it. After all I went to see RotS, despite my better judgment. But I’m not expecting anything but explosions and lightsabers with a hamhanded plot to bounce from one action scene to the next. With some idiotic love triangle thrown in just to annoy me.

And it will probably have Finn. Still existing. Being the largest waste of a character concept I have ever seen.

[Peelee]

And it will probably have Finn. Still existing. Being the largest waste of a character concept I have ever seen.

You misspelled "Poe."

[Mechalich]

I wouldn't expect too much from Lando for the simple reason that Billy Dee Williams is over 80 and hasn't done any physically demanding work in years. He's mostly done voice work (often as Lando) or small roles. The prognosis is therefore for an extended cameo role at best, probably as a speaker for the Republic - which has yet to have a single speaking role in the ST - as either a high-ranking military or political figure. I predict he's on-screen for less than ten minutes, takes less than ten steps, and appears only indoors/inside a ship.

Ultimately, good for Mr. Williams, as I expect he was able to command a ludicrous rate of compensation for what will probably be two-three days of filming tops, and sure it will be nice to see Lando again - various guest star appearances by Lando in games over the years have generally gone well - but I do not think it will have a major impact on the film.

[Dienekes]

You misspelled "Poe."

Poe is introduced as a reckless hotshot pilot. He continues to be a reckless hotshot pilot now going on an arc to be less reckless.

Makes sense to me. And fits as development of his archetype.

Finn is introduced as a Stormtrooper serving as part of Kylo Ren’s personal assault force. We then learn he is a child soldier kidnapped by his family and grown to be an unquestion soldier that has a sudden growth of conscience. He acts like he’s trying to be a Chris Pratt character.

It does not make sense as a development of his backstory. It is a waste of a previously untapped character in a Star Wars movie.

[Metahuman1]

Read an article about shooting starting for Episode 9 and Billy Dee Williams is in the cast. So Lando may be showing up in the movie. I am really excited. Of course, JJ is directing, so hard to say what kind of quality story we end up getting...

What do people think?

I think he's going to die, likely an unworthy death. I think he's only being put on screen to die in a way that there's no going back form. It would fit there pattern up till now, and I remain convinced current Disney and Lucas film is physically incapable or either recognizing or acknowledging a *%&^ up, let alone attempting, and certainly let alone succeeding at, correcting one.


I think it's a shameful ploy to try to get people like me who saw Episode 8 and the general handling of our perfectly legitimate problems with that movie, and decided "No. I will not go see this movie 3-20 times. I will not drag no less then 20 people in groups to go see this movie. I will not buy several hundred dollars of merchandise for it either. I will not bother with it and you will see not one cent of my money if this is how you want to treat me and this franchise that has meaning too me." to go see Episode 9 anyway, with out making even a token effort to correct ANY of there BS.

[Darth Ultron]

I think he's going to die,

Well, there IS a fate that would be like 1000%'s more Awesome

Poor Old Lando (Billy Dee Wilaims) does die...but they put him in the Lifesaver Machine...

and

and

young Lando (Donald Glover) steps out!

YES!

Then young Lando (Donald Glover) can have fun and wacky adventures with Poe and Fin and Rae!

[russdm]

It likely will be horrible.

Lando will come back and be like ''I was playing Shuffleboard on Retiermuis Six and turned off my radio..yuck yuck yuck, so how is the galaxy.

There will not even be one second of Londo finding out about the deaths of Han and Luke or reacting in any way, as the whole movie will be...pew pew..'star wars'. Like maybe Rae will hand Londo the silly fake dice and the lightsaber, and Londo will frown..

And then there will be...the dumbest plot ever....like the Rebel Terrorists discover the Empire has an OFF button, and if they can just press the button, they can turn the Empire..er...off.

And Londo, Chewy, and CGI/Cut/Copy/Paste Lea will be stuck on the Millennium Falcon when the door handle breaks...and then the ship will..er..''run out of fuel" and they will hit a..er..space bump..and then the ship will fall into the sun and kill all three characters.

Oh...and they save Ben so he becomes a good guy, and Ben meets a pretty pink haired Wokkie named Moon Unit Blanket Co-Pilot Inspektor Hashtag ("Grrrr#####") and they will have a daughter, Heavynli-Princess.

And the two of them get a new cargo ship...the Millennial Falcon.

And Rae and Finn and Poe will all get married in a tri-union and they will have some kids: Disney, Billions, Facebook, and Phelony.

That makes MUBCI.

The rest just sounds incrediably bizarre, and you keep getting the characters names wrong. Lando not Londo (It's not Babylon 5!), Rey not Rae, and at what point has Rey shown any romantic interest in either of the two male leads?

Finn is supposed to hooking up with Rose in TLJ, considering they go on an adventure together, and that she keeps him from destroying the big gun that was knocking down the rebels big door. With an massively stupid line as well.

As for other bits, both the fake dice and lightsaber are gone. So Rey can't hand them to anyone.


Well, there IS a fate that would be like 1000%'s more Awesome

Poor Old Lando (Billy Dee Wilaims) does die...but they put him in the Lifesaver Machine...

and

and

young Lando (Donald Glover) steps out!

YES!

Then young Lando (Donald Glover) can have fun and wacky adventures with Poe and Fin and Rae!

Given your comments, I can't but feel that you confusing Star Wars with Babylon 5, which does have a character named Londo, and a lifesaver machine that kills the other person to save a life, apparently.

Do you simply despise both Franchises, that you would put Londo Mollari in Star Wars? Stick the character in something so completely separate from Babylon 5 as you can go?

One main point, if the Empire had an "Off" switch, then what was the entire point of the entire saga about the Death Stars, the Emperor, Vader, and everything else.

Seriously, pulling what you are suggesting will enrage every single fan, all of whom will be boycotting the movie. They would lose billions with such a dumb move.

They want to earn money, they aren't as made of stupid as you make them out to be.

[Metahuman1]

That makes MUBCI.

The rest just sounds incrediably bizarre, and you keep getting the characters names wrong. Lando not Londo (It's not Babylon 5!), Rey not Rae, and at what point has Rey shown any romantic interest in either of the two male leads?

Finn is supposed to hooking up with Rose in TLJ, considering they go on an adventure together, and that she keeps him from destroying the big gun that was knocking down the rebels big door. With an massively stupid line as well.

As for other bits, both the fake dice and lightsaber are gone. So Rey can't hand them to anyone.



Given your comments, I can't but feel that you confusing Star Wars with Babylon 5, which does have a character named Londo, and a lifesaver machine that kills the other person to save a life, apparently.

Do you simply despise both Franchises, that you would put Londo Mollari in Star Wars? Stick the character in something so completely separate from Babylon 5 as you can go?

One main point, if the Empire had an "Off" switch, then what was the entire point of the entire saga about the Death Stars, the Emperor, Vader, and everything else.

Seriously, pulling what you are suggesting will enrage every single fan, all of whom will be boycotting the movie. They would lose billions with such a dumb move.

They want to earn money, they aren't as made of stupid as you make them out to be.




1: I feel the point he's making that is being missed is "the franchise is so full of it at this point and the people in charge have shown such contempt for it, that these things would be about par for the course from them.".

2: The empire having an off switch makes precisely as much sense in the previously established context of the franchise as Hyperspace ramming, which also retroactively makes everything prior to that seem dumb and pointless, while itself simultaneously managing to be banal, dumb and pointless!

3: According to one Ryan Johnson, who's getting his own trilogy he's so happy to keep reminding us on twitter all, the, time in the most condescending and obnoxious way he can think of, making money isn't the point. The core customers, the fans, don't matter and don't need to be happy, and in fact, it's GOOD when there angry. All that matters, is that no one actually expects what he does with the movie, and that at least half the people who see it leave the theater mad.



I could keep going but I should be able to just refer you too these points to address the rest of yours and say "Given this, why is the other in any way unlikely, let alone out of the question?".

[Peelee]

1: I feel the point he's making that is being missed is "the franchise is so full of it at this point and the people in charge have shown such contempt for it, that these things would be about par for the course from them.".

Oh, I assure you I'm not missing that point. I just think "the people who paid four billion dollars for this franchise and have dedicated to saturating the market even further with it have contempt for it" to be so ridiculous that it's easier to imagine that being typed by a monkey randomly smashing a stick against a computer than a rational person who thinks that is a logical progression.

[Metahuman1]

Oh, I assure you I'm not missing that point. I just think "the people who paid four billion dollars for this franchise and have dedicated to saturating the market even further with it have contempt for it" to be so ridiculous that it's easier to imagine that being typed by a monkey randomly smashing a stick against a computer than a rational person who thinks that is a logical progression.

And this would be the part were I'd tell you to take a stroll through Rian Johnson's Twitter.

You know Rian Johnson, he's the guy who was in charge of everything from The Last Jedi and made ALL the decisions on it that sucked? Also point blank stated in no uncertain or subject to interpretation as to meaning or intentions terms that he wants his movies to be hated. He doesn't care about the other movies in the franchise at all. Oh, and has repeatedly insisted anyone who makes any remark what so ever in any context about The Last Jedi that isn't mindless glowing praise is an Alt Right Manbaby White Nazi Fanboy Trasphobic Islamophobic Woman Hating Antisemetic Homophobic Bigoted Racist Klansman?

That guy, you know him?


I'd tell you to go look through his twitter, and the fact that it wasn't grounds for immediate firing is all the proof anyone should need after sitting through The Last Jedi that the assessment that the people who paid 4 Billion for Star Wars and are saturating the market in marketing for it hold it in contempt.




I would tell you to go look through that twitter, Except Johnson recently deleted everything he ever tweeted before James Gunn's firing.




His official statement was that he was protecting it from the trolls and Russian bots that he seems to think got James Gunn fired.

Which tells me that in the land of the real world, he probably got rid of it because there were a lot of really damning tweets on it that blatantly break his contract with Disney and could be grounds for firing at any point. And they might enforce it now. Further, that it's at least possible there were tweets of a similar nature to Gunn's that, if the people who are sick of being told there Alt Right Manbaby White Nazi Fanboy Trasphobic Islamophobic Woman Hating Antisemetic Homophobic Bigoted Racist Klansman by Johnson became aware of them and managed to archive and spread them around, would cause him to get fired and blacklisted just like Gunn.




But please, keep in mind this is who your defending and keep trying to convince me to ignore all of reality and all of my 5 senses and all of my experience with human social interactions and life experience, and just trust you blindly that they don't hold Star Wars in contempt, in direct opposition to all evidence.

[Mechalich]

Rian Johnson may hold Star Wars in contempt, but if so he's likely an outlier. Kathleen Kennedy and JJ Abrams don't have contempt for the franchise, they just clearly fail to understand what it actually is and why it means a lot to so many people. The same seems to be true of their immediate circles and fellow Disney executives. They don't understand that Star Wars - do in large part to the peculiar circumstances that allowed George Lucas so much personal control for so long - functions differently from other large scale multimedia franchises. This isn't universal within current management - over in the animation department Dave Filoni very clearly does get Star Wars and while there's been some bad stuff (Rebels) it hasn't been insulting.

JJ Abrams made a high-quality Star Wars movie production that happened to be creatively bereft. That's what he does with everything, he's an extremely competent hack and he'd be excellent if given a franchise where competency rather than thematic consistency was the primarily need (Transformers, for instance). Kathleen Kennedy is a producer with a long history of churning out mass market material that cashes in off pre-existing IP often with little to no respect for the source material. She doesn't understand the difference between Star Wars and Jurassic Park.

The overall failure of Lucasfilm to react to the TLJ+Solo failure by at least putting Rian Johnson's supposed trilogy on indefinite hold speaks to a general failure of management and public relations that doesn't necessarily have anything to do with Star Wars. Letting the most controversial figure take on the role of mouthpiece in an enterprise is pretty much a bad idea in any endeavor. It strongly suggests something has gone majorly wrong at Lucasfilm in a way that may be completely unrelated to actual moviemaking.

[Metahuman1]

Rian Johnson may hold Star Wars in contempt, but if so he's likely an outlier. Kathleen Kennedy and JJ Abrams don't have contempt for the franchise, they just clearly fail to understand what it actually is and why it means a lot to so many people. The same seems to be true of their immediate circles and fellow Disney executives. They don't understand that Star Wars - do in large part to the peculiar circumstances that allowed George Lucas so much personal control for so long - functions differently from other large scale multimedia franchises. This isn't universal within current management - over in the animation department Dave Filoni very clearly does get Star Wars and while there's been some bad stuff (Rebels) it hasn't been insulting.

JJ Abrams made a high-quality Star Wars movie production that happened to be creatively bereft. That's what he does with everything, he's an extremely competent hack and he'd be excellent if given a franchise where competency rather than thematic consistency was the primarily need (Transformers, for instance). Kathleen Kennedy is a producer with a long history of churning out mass market material that cashes in off pre-existing IP often with little to no respect for the source material. She doesn't understand the difference between Star Wars and Jurassic Park.

The overall failure of Lucasfilm to react to the TLJ+Solo failure by at least putting Rian Johnson's supposed trilogy on indefinite hold speaks to a general failure of management and public relations that doesn't necessarily have anything to do with Star Wars. Letting the most controversial figure take on the role of mouthpiece in an enterprise is pretty much a bad idea in any endeavor. It strongly suggests something has gone majorly wrong at Lucasfilm in a way that may be completely unrelated to actual moviemaking.

Kathleen Kennedy and J.J. Abrams both had veto power over everything that happened in The Last Jedi. Kennedy had it on Solo as well.

What have they done with it? Nothing. Hell, they've come out and made statements of support for Johnson and several other Lucas film affiliates who sound off in a similar manner to him, like a couple of the yahoo's that write the new novels that actively contradict the movies and one another cause apparently Kennedy is too busy announcing The Force Is Female to make the franchise stay consistent. Never Mind that that was the stated logic behind trash canning the whole pre Disney EU.


Johnson's not an outlier by a long shot. He's standard practice at the company. J.J., a man who I'd like to remind you, when he was being interviewed about making episode 7, established as part of his personal history that the first though that came to his mind was "I can se this to virtue signal for political brownie points!" If Johnson was an outlier, any one of a thousand something tweets would have been enough to can his damn tribology. Hell's freaking bells he would not even have been offed a trilogy, he'd have been fired and someone else brought in to Direct The Last Jedi, and black listed cause they wound up having to either rush or delay production over his bull.

If I said one of the things Johnson has said to Lucasfilm and Disney's customers to the customers of my employer, I'd be fired and black listed. And yet this privileged twit is STILL operating with impunity.




No, there in full agreement with him and there backing him, full tilt. No if's, and's or but's about it.

Want to persuade me otherwise? Fire him, and black list him, publically. Till that happens, see the sentence above.



And that means, again, say it with me, they, hold, star, wars, in, contempt, and, they, are, loosing, Disney, money, because, of, it!

The only thing I cannot being to fathom is why Bob Iger hasn't called them all into his office with cameras and about 10 cops and a 100 privet security staff present, informed them they were black listed, here was there severance packages per contract, there office's will be cleared out and there effect's mailed too them, the officers will see you out, don't ever come back. And then put the video out there as part of the announcement that this has been done as proof?

[Peelee]

I don't think RJ holds it in contempt, I just think he was severely unhappy with the backlash against the movie he made (especially when his bosses gave him a full trilogy) and went all in on the Seymore Skinner meme.

And Abrams isn't doing anything different than he ever did.

[Metahuman1]

I don't think RJ holds it in contempt, I just think he was severely unhappy with the backlash against the movie he made (especially when his bosses gave him a full trilogy) and went all in on the Seymore Skinner meme.

And Abrams isn't doing anything different than he ever did.

You don't think he holds it in contempt.


I am submitting he burned down a freaking library's worth of metaphorical books on how much he holds it and movie goers in general in noting but contempt, and you seem to have missed it and now don't want to acknowledge it ever existed.


But let's say, just for the sake of argument, your correct. That he doesn't hold the franchise in contempt. In, precisely, what industry, is it generally considered an acceptable practice for an employee to throw a shrieking temper tantrum for months on end that would make a toddler embarrassed, at the paying repeat regular customers as well as the casual foot traffic customers, calling them every slanderous and libelous name in the book, while going to employer sponsored events and cussing out staff members that are adored customer favorites and have been for decades with F-bombs?

In what industry, precisely, is this not grounds for immediate firing and black listing?


Apparently, Hollywood, at Lucas Film, Under Disney's Ownership.







Again, that version of events? I'm having to ignore thousands of tweets and most of a year of bull **** and pretty much everything that happened in the movie itself to give him that version of events. Says something about what a bit of dreck he is and how badly he needs to be gone and never, ever, EVER so much as allowed to buy a theme park ticket for himself with them again, doesn't it?

[Devonix]

You don't think he holds it in contempt.


I am submitting he burned down a freaking library's worth of metaphorical books on how much he holds it and movie goers in general in noting but contempt, and you seem to have missed it and now don't want to acknowledge it ever existed.


But let's say, just for the sake of argument, your correct. That he doesn't hold the franchise in contempt. In, precisely, what industry, is it generally considered an acceptable practice for an employee to throw a shrieking temper tantrum for months on end that would make a toddler embarrassed, at the paying repeat regular customers as well as the casual foot traffic customers, calling them every slanderous and libelous name in the book, while going to employer sponsored events and cussing out staff members that are adored customer favorites and have been for decades with F-bombs?

In what industry, precisely, is this not grounds for immediate firing and black listing?


Apparently, Hollywood, at Lucas Film, Under Disney's Ownership.







Again, that version of events? I'm having to ignore thousands of tweets and most of a year of bull **** and pretty much everything that happened in the movie itself to give him that version of events. Says something about what a bit of dreck he is and how badly he needs to be gone and never, ever, EVER so much as allowed to buy a theme park ticket for himself with them again, doesn't it?

Seeing how he burned down exatly 0.00 books, metaphorical or otherwise I have to disagree there. And with the type of customers he was responding to I wouldn't fire him as one of my employees I'd give him a raise.

[Metahuman1]

Seeing how he burned down exatly 0.00 books, metaphorical or otherwise I have to disagree there. And with the type of customers he was responding to I wouldn't fire him as one of my employees I'd give him a raise.

Good to know you think so little of me personally.

[Darkseal]

I have to admit, I'm wary about them adding in Carrie Fisher with old unused footage. So many ways that could be done wrong.

I also have a bad feeling about this... However, I'm also sure that they wouldn't want to get any negative feedback from that, so I'm pretty sure they'll find a way to do that respectfully enough.

Let's see...

[Devonix]

Good to know you think so little of me personally.

Were you the type of customer sending death threats, or personal insults to actors? If not, then what he was saying most likely wasn't directed at you. It's the same as people who think everything the Teen Titans Go writers put in their show is a direct insult to them.

Rian Johnson dosn't know you personally, so I doubt any insult is directed at you personally. As for the burning 0 books. I say that because that's what happened. Zero books were burned in his movie.

[Peelee]

Do note that I'm not defending RJ at all here. I agree that he had to deal with some absolutely ridiculous groups over absolutely ridiculous complaints, and people who had fanatical devotion to their ideas and decided death threats were appropriate ways of responding. He also, to the best of my knowledge, refused to acknowledge that he made any mistakes. I agree the best response would have been to ignore the people he railed against.

[Metahuman1]

Devonix


Peelee


No, I did not issue him Death Threats or personal insults to the actors. And he has made it abundantly, irrefutably clear before deleting 20,000 freaking tweets in 1 go, (The metaphorical library and book burning, Devonix, that you are not either being rather obtuse about or trying to insist never happened. I'm not certain which.) that he does in fact mean me anyway. He does include me in who he rails against, for he rails against anyone who does not think The Last Jedi is not only the only good star wars anything ever made, but in fact is able to go head to head with Citizen Cain for the title of greatest movie ever made period.


And since I am heavily critical of a great many things that are central to the freaking movie (Canto Bite, the treatment of the character of Luke Skywalker, the blatant public mistreatment at a family event of Mark Hamel, Making sure it's objectively impossible to honestly and accurately claim Rey is NOT a Mary Sue, Hyperspace Ramming, Admiral Holdo in general, the complete derailment of Fin and Poe's characters and Arcs, as well as Hux and any chance of making Ren threatening for that matter, the utter waste of Phasma and Snoke, the pissing all over the canon in general.) as far as Johnson is concerned and has stated publicly all over his twitter before purging the damn thing to hide something I'm certain, no, he meant me personally, and he meant and will for the rest of his life continue to mean anyone and everyone who says a single thing that isn't just mindlessly singing TLJ's praises.




Oh, and Peelee? That thing about not defending Johnson? Would be far more convincing if most if not all the rest of the post after that sentence stating your not defending him, wasn't you trying to justify and defend his behavior with a "maybe this other course of action would have been a better route to go in hindsight." as though the other route was A) not antithetical to his intentions and mode of operations and B) wasn't also blindingly obviously the better route cause it involved 1: Giving a crap on his part, 2: being an adult, 3: being a professional.

[Velaryon]

Metahuman1, can you find any of the tweets you're referring to? I know Rian Johnson deleted some 20K tweets, but surely some of them must have been archived on the Wayback Machine or elsewhere?


I have to admit, I'm wary about them adding in Carrie Fisher with old unused footage. So many ways that could be done wrong.

Are they seriously doing that? :smalleek:

Anyway, I am happy to hear that Billy Dee Williams will be reprising his role, even if it's just for a little cameo. I was disappointed he didn't appear in TLJ, so this is good news to me.

I haven't been thrilled with either of the sequel films so far, even if TLJ did technically deliver on most of my wishlist (toning down Rey's most obnoxious qualities from TFA, not revealing her as a Skywalker, and letting Kylo Ren look a bit stronger than he did in the first film). Nonetheless, I don't hate the films either, and will probably see it when it comes out.

[Peelee]

Devonix


Peelee


No, I did not issue him Death Threats or personal insults to the actors. And he has made it abundantly, irrefutably clear before deleting 20,000 freaking tweets in 1 go, (The metaphorical library and book burning, Devonix, that you are not either being rather obtuse about or trying to insist never happened. I'm not certain which.) that he does in fact mean me anyway. He does include me in who he rails against, for he rails against anyone who does not think The Last Jedi is not only the only good star wars anything ever made, but in fact is able to go head to head with Citizen Cain for the title of greatest movie ever made period.


And since I am heavily critical of a great many things that are central to the freaking movie (Canto Bite, the treatment of the character of Luke Skywalker, the blatant public mistreatment at a family event of Mark Hamel, Making sure it's objectively impossible to honestly and accurately claim Rey is NOT a Mary Sue, Hyperspace Ramming, Admiral Holdo in general, the complete derailment of Fin and Poe's characters and Arcs, as well as Hux and any chance of making Ren threatening for that matter, the utter waste of Phasma and Snoke, the pissing all over the canon in general.) as far as Johnson is concerned and has stated publicly all over his twitter before purging the damn thing to hide something I'm certain, no, he meant me personally, and he meant and will for the rest of his life continue to mean anyone and everyone who says a single thing that isn't just mindlessly singing TLJ's praises.




Oh, and Peelee? That thing about not defending Johnson? Would be far more convincing if most if not all the rest of the post after that sentence stating your not defending him, wasn't you trying to justify and defend his behavior with a "maybe this other course of action would have been a better route to go in hindsight." as though the other route was A) not antithetical to his intentions and mode of operations and B) wasn't also blindingly obviously the better route cause it involved 1: Giving a crap on his part, 2: being an adult, 3: being a professional.

We never said you did. We said a loud portion of people who railed against the movie did. I have failed against the movie myself, but idon't I people talk about mewhen they talk about how he acted (except doot they he said if we don't letthor movie we're wrong. In which case, see the afprementioned "all in on the Skinner meme).

As for that last part, I explicitly agreed with you. If that wasn't strong enough, then here: on that last part, I agree with you

[russdm]

1: I feel the point he's making that is being missed is "the franchise is so full of it at this point and the people in charge have shown such contempt for it, that these things would be about par for the course from them.".

2: The empire having an off switch makes precisely as much sense in the previously established context of the franchise as Hyperspace ramming, which also retroactively makes everything prior to that seem dumb and pointless, while itself simultaneously managing to be banal, dumb and pointless!

3: According to one Ryan Johnson, who's getting his own trilogy he's so happy to keep reminding us on twitter all, the, time in the most condescending and obnoxious way he can think of, making money isn't the point. The core customers, the fans, don't matter and don't need to be happy, and in fact, it's GOOD when there angry. All that matters, is that no one actually expects what he does with the movie, and that at least half the people who see it leave the theater mad.

I could keep going but I should be able to just refer you too these points to address the rest of yours and say "Given this, why is the other in any way unlikely, let alone out of the question?".

1) I really don't think that was actually his point. Or at least it didn't come across that way to me.

Personally, I think it should be more considered that Kathleen Kennedy and others simply just don't get the Franchise and are being stupid or dumb. Maybe something like that?

The other bit is that this is what moviegoers are getting from supporting heavy SJW interference in the movie industry or the strong liberal control in the movie industry. Bad plots, lousy stories, and low quality work here.

TLJ might have worked somewhat better if everything Star Wars had gotten removed. Maybe.

2) I have not said that I viewed the Hyperspace Ramming as something that works or makes sense. Nor do I view it as properly really fitting anything that has been established previously, mainly because Lucas shows no real instances of it being ever used before, with it only appear in this story. Hell, it breaks canon massively since it is a highly effective viable tactic. For which, I would presume that it might be highly situational, and that the First Order's leaders like Hux are idiots. It is still stupid.

DU's comment about the Empire having an off switch doesn't work because it completely invalidates everything in the entire saga, especially from the Original Trilogy. It begs the question of why didn't Leia just find the switch and turn it off? Even more importantly, the off switch completely destroys Luke's entire life, his purpose relating to Vader, and essentially everything. It destroys the entire myth used by Lucas for the first movie.

What it would mean is completely wrecking the film story for laughs, or cause. I just don't such a massively cynical view of the in-charge team. While I think that mistakes were made, I don't see them deliberately choosing to completely destroy the franchise and lose all of the money they could make by doing so.

3) Rian Johnson is doing the same thing that Chuck Wendig did to those who didn't like the Aftermath books, and like how Disney acted there, they let Wendig insult huge number of fans. Despite there being no benefit for them to doing so. But what were you expecting when Hilary name calls a bunch of people and the media eats up as being so wonderful, as being such a wonderful statement to make? And both RJ and Chuck Wendig are taking a page from actions from Liberals/SJW/Etc of using insults to discredit peoples arguments when they know that they can't win in the case. It is easier to just name call then try to win people over to their view with reasoned arguments.

And haven't you noticed a considerable number of people who went along with Wendig's commentary about those who didn't like his Star Wars books? Of how his actions were viewed by many? How many of the same don't you think went along with RJ own comments of the same nature?

And Disney has shown that the support that kind of behavior by allowing Wendig to have written two books to make a trilogy despite what happened with the first Aftermath novel.

[Darth Ultron]

Rian Johnson may hold Star Wars in contempt, but if so he's likely an outlier. Kathleen Kennedy and JJ Abrams don't have contempt for the franchise, they just clearly fail to understand what it actually is and why it means a lot to so many people. The same seems to be true of their immediate circles and fellow Disney executives. They don't understand that Star Wars

Very true, they are all part of the Elite People that think sic fi stuff is silly and for Kidz.

[Peelee]

1) I
3) Rian Johnson is doing the same thing that Chuck Wendig did to those who didn't like the Aftermath books, and like how Disney acted there, they let Wendig insult huge number of fans.

God those books were bad. And that's all I'm gonna touch on that point.

[Metahuman1]

Metahuman1, can you find any of the tweets you're referring to? I know Rian Johnson deleted some 20K tweets, but surely some of them must have been archived on the Wayback Machine or elsewhere?



Are they seriously doing that? :smalleek:

Anyway, I am happy to hear that Billy Dee Williams will be reprising his role, even if it's just for a little cameo. I was disappointed he didn't appear in TLJ, so this is good news to me.

I haven't been thrilled with either of the sequel films so far, even if TLJ did technically deliver on most of my wishlist (toning down Rey's most obnoxious qualities from TFA, not revealing her as a Skywalker, and letting Kylo Ren look a bit stronger than he did in the first film). Nonetheless, I don't hate the films either, and will probably see it when it comes out.

I'm not in the habit of archiving the entire twitter history of people I think are horrible and have behaved horribly and done horrible things to franchises I like. Though evidently I'm going to need to find the spare money for an archiving service somewhere at the rate things are going.

Someone else may well have Archived it, poke around. That said, the 20,000+ tweets he took out constituted basically his whole twitter history prior to the deletion event itself. He stated he was doing it to protect himself form trolls taking his tweets out of context.

What that means in all likely hood is at best, he was afraid that the people he's been slandering and attacking deliberately and maliciously both my making TLJ the way he did and since then on twitter, were going to manage to get the months and months and months of it on Bob Iger's Radar in the wake of James Gunns firing, and Iger would then do the logical thing, protect his company's brand, and publically cancel Johnson's trilogy, fire him, and black list him from ever working for Disney in any capacity again. Which would prevent him form in the future telling everyone who raises valid issues with his movies that there evil alt right Nazi manbaby's and taunting them that he's going to get to **** on there favorite part of there child hoods for 3 more movies.


That's the absolute most generous read that can be given the situation with out making up utterly unsubstantiated fictions to try and protect Rian Johnson form the consequences of his own actions.


And yes, they are really going to use cutting room floor footage of Carrie Fisher to get Leia in episode 9. I see very little chance of this ending well given the last 2 movies in this franchise.

Also, toned down Rey? Did we watch the same movie? After TFA, I argued she was not a Mary Sue and all she needed was a bit of a reality check from someone who really knew what they were doing in and a training montage, and she'd be great. And Lucasfilm couldn't possibly such unprofessional incompetent morons as to not have that happen.

And then in the last Jedi she's able to beat Luke with at best 2 and a half lessons, by the most generous account imaginable, and she's more powerful than Any Jedi Ever after that as well by the way. She's a walking definition of Mary Sue.

And making her related to nobody was just Johnson being a postmodern deconstruction obsessed SJW Nihilist. It's not good writing, it doesn't fit the mythos at all, it's horrible. She didn't have to be a Skywalker, there are plenty of other people she could be the granddaughter or daughter or great granddaughter of, but no one? Really? And people are seriously arguing to me that Johnson doesn't hold the whole franchise in utter contempt, as do the bosses that could have veto'd him and choose not too?





We never said you did. We said a loud portion of people who railed against the movie did. I have failed against the movie myself, but idon't I people talk about mewhen they talk about how he acted (except doot they he said if we don't letthor movie we're wrong. In which case, see the afprementioned "all in on the Skinner meme).

As for that last part, I explicitly agreed with you. If that wasn't strong enough, then here: on that last part, I agree with you

Perhaps you didn't. But emphasis mine below to see were the assertion was indeed made.


Seeing how he burned down exatly 0.00 books, metaphorical or otherwise I have to disagree there. And with the type of customers he was responding to I wouldn't fire him as one of my employees I'd give him a raise.

At best, this shows someone ignored him for about 7 months after the movie came out completely. And then saw fit to defend him blindly. And thus lumping me in as an alt right woman hating islamophobic racist bigoted homophobic transphobic manbaby fanboy evil Nazi who's throwing personal harassment at actors and death threats at Johnson, and thus everything he does is indeed laudable.


So it's been done. In this thread. Do not tell me it hasn't.


As for the rest, your agreeing with me. I'll take it that was the thrust of the post, and leave it at that.


And yes, the books post Force Awakens Novels are horrible and the author should have been let go for that alone. He most assuredly should have been gotten rid of the instant he started using the same tactics Rian Johnson would use to defend his books form valid criticism. But because Lucasfilms top brass holds Star Wars and it's Fans and general audience's in utter contempt, someone didn't' do that, and he's gotten to write more books. I wouldn't be surprised if he'd even been given a raise. Apparently that's a thing some people think should be done when you throw those manner of temper tantrums at millions and millions of people and you can find five of them in the millions and millions who happen to be ****ty people. Cause, apparently those 5 people are the only representative standard of millions and millions and millions of people. That's how science works, right? What do you mean that's childish and not how it works and boarders on insanity?

[Velaryon]

I'm not in the habit of archiving the entire twitter history of people I think are horrible and have behaved horribly and done horrible things to franchises I like. Though evidently I'm going to need to find the spare money for an archiving service somewhere at the rate things are going.

Someone else may well have Archived it, poke around. That said, the 20,000+ tweets he took out constituted basically his whole twitter history prior to the deletion event itself. He stated he was doing it to protect himself form trolls taking his tweets out of context.

I did look, as a matter of fact. And while I did find that Wayback Machine has archived many of Johnson's tweets, I didn't find a single one that sounds anything like what you've attributed to him. I'm not willing to spend potentially hours of my time verifying a claim you've made and have provided absolutely no evidence for, which is why I suggested politely that perhaps you could find one archived (since presumably you would know around when these tweets were made and thus have an easier time finding them than I would) to show an example of what you mean.



And yes, they are really going to use cutting room floor footage of Carrie Fisher to get Leia in episode 9. I see very little chance of this ending well given the last 2 movies in this franchise.

Depending on what they filmed for TFA and TLJ and haven't used, maybe they can eke out a couple brief scenes that will make sense. Like you however, I am not optimistic. I think the wise thing would have been to write Leia out of the story after Carrie Fisher died, perhaps simply by having her perish offscreen instead of coming back to tell Poe how wrong he was not to trust Holdo's moronic mishandling of everything. But since they didn't, they've got to do something to conclude her character arc, which means either an offscreen death before or during the film, or trying to make what they can out of archival footage. I just hope they aren't going to try to CGI her in there.



Also, toned down Rey? Did we watch the same movie? After TFA, I argued she was not a Mary Sue and all she needed was a bit of a reality check from someone who really knew what they were doing in and a training montage, and she'd be great. And Lucasfilm couldn't possibly such unprofessional incompetent morons as to not have that happen.

And then in the last Jedi she's able to beat Luke with at best 2 and a half lessons, by the most generous account imaginable, and she's more powerful than Any Jedi Ever after that as well by the way. She's a walking definition of Mary Sue.

Evidently we did not. The version of The Force Awakens I saw had a character piloting the Millennium Falcon better than Han Solo, besting experienced Force users at their own game mere hours after learning that the Force was even a thing that existed, and defeating (an admittedly wounded) Kylo Ren in a lightsaber battle. Whereas the version of The Last Jedi that I saw had her dead to rights in Snoke's chamber until Kylo Ren caught Snoke off guard with his betrayal. Nor do I recall anything that paints her as "more powerful than Any Jedi Ever." Yes, Rey is a Mary Sue. I simply believe that she's less of one than she was in TFA, and likely will be again with Abrams back at the helm in the next film.


And making her related to nobody was just Johnson being a postmodern deconstruction obsessed SJW Nihilist. It's not good writing, it doesn't fit the mythos at all, it's horrible. She didn't have to be a Skywalker, there are plenty of other people she could be the granddaughter or daughter or great granddaughter of, but no one? Really? And people are seriously arguing to me that Johnson doesn't hold the whole franchise in utter contempt, as do the bosses that could have veto'd him and choose not too?

I'd ask what making Rey not be a Skywalker, Solo, Kenobi, or Palpatine (as those were AFAIK the most popular theories) has to do with either Social Justice Warriors or Nihilism (and why are we capitalizing Nihilist, anyway?), but I suspect the answer would violate forum rules so instead I'm just gonna skip over that whole sentence.

In what way is not making her yet another legacy character bad writing? I'd argue that making her somehow be Kylo Ren's sister, or Obi-Wan's secret daughter/granddaughter despite no indication that he's ever had that kind of relationship, or Palpatine's female clone or something, are all significantly worse ideas than just having her be the daughter of two random people who aren't famous. We've got an entire galaxy to explore, so why does every character need to be descended from the same four people?

[Peelee]

In what way is not making her yet another legacy character bad writing? I'd argue that making her somehow be Kylo Ren's sister, or Obi-Wan's secret daughter/granddaughter despite no indication that he's ever had that kind of relationship, or Palpatine's female clone or something, are all significantly worse ideas than just having her be the daughter of two random people who aren't famous. We've got an entire galaxy to explore, so why does every character need to be descended from the same four people?

For all that is good and holy, yes. That was the biggest thing I wanted out of TLJ, for Rey to not be "oh she's from the X family," because that makes the galaxy significantly smaller.

[Zevox]

For all that is good and holy, yes. That was the biggest thing I wanted out of TLJ, for Rey to not be "oh she's from the X family," because that makes the galaxy significantly smaller.
Going to chime in some agreement on that particular point. When they started implying that Rey was (in my mind at the time) probably Luke's daughter in TFA, I rolled my eyes at such a lazy, boring plot turn. I'd much rather she just be her own character than be another descendant of someone we know. Particularly since then you have to explain why that someone would abandon her on Jakku like that, which would make no sense for Luke or the Solos at a bare minimum. And if she were supposed to be related to someone like that, I'd rather the story have just started with her already with them, not toss her onto a desert planet as an orphan to start with for the sole purpose of rehashing Luke's origins.

Granted, I also wish her character and role in the films' story were better handled (even though I don't agree with the notion that she's a Mary Sue), as there's definitely problems with it. But her parents not being important isn't one of them, it's one of the very short list of things that TLJ didn't screw up, in my opinion.

[Aeson]

Personally, I do not care one way or the other whether Rey is a Skywalker or a nobody, but I do think that it's a flaw of the new trilogy, at least as it currently stands, that The Force Awakens made Rey's parentage out to be something of a big deal and then The Last Jedi dumped on the idea that Rey's parents could possibly be anybody important.

Anyways, being told that her parents are nobodies could reasonably be assumed to be hurtful or provocative, and, especially considering that Palpatine's behavior in the films indicates that the standard way for Dark Side Force adepts to recruit someone appears to be to provoke and/or hurt them or play upon their fears until they begin lashing out in fear or anger, I don't see any particular reason to believe that Ben/Kylo told her that her parents were nobodies to help her move past her abandonment issues. Possibly he told her something that he believed to be true, or perhaps he was just being nasty or spiteful, but he wasn't being helpful - especially considering that the only way in which he could actually know if her parents were nobodies is if he knows who her parents actually are. As such, I don't think it's yet time to be certain that Rey's parents are random nobodies just because they're called that in The Last Jedi.

[Devonix]

Personally, I do not care one way or the other whether Rey is a Skywalker or a nobody, but I do think that it's a flaw of the new trilogy, at least as it currently stands, that The Force Awakens made Rey's parentage out to be something of a big deal and then The Last Jedi dumped on the idea that Rey's parents could possibly be anybody important.

Anyways, being told that her parents are nobodies could reasonably be assumed to be hurtful or provocative, and, especially considering that Palpatine's behavior in the films indicates that the standard way for Dark Side Force adepts to recruit someone appears to be to provoke and/or hurt them or play upon their fears until they begin lashing out in fear or anger, I don't see any particular reason to believe that Ben/Kylo told her that her parents were nobodies to help her move past her abandonment issues. Possibly he told her something that he believed to be true, or perhaps he was just being nasty or spiteful, but he wasn't being helpful - especially considering that the only way in which he could actually know if her parents were nobodies is if he knows who her parents actually are. As such, I don't think it's yet time to be certain that Rey's parents are random nobodies just because they're called that in The Last Jedi."

it's your basic gasslighting technique.
" This isn't your story, you're not a Skywalker like me. You're not important. But that's ok. It's ok that you're meaningless and don't matter. You matter to me and I can give you meaning. "

[Mechalich]

Personally, I do not care one way or the other whether Rey is a Skywalker or a nobody, but I do think that it's a flaw of the new trilogy, at least as it currently stands, that The Force Awakens made Rey's parentage out to be something of a big deal and then The Last Jedi dumped on the idea that Rey's parents could possibly be anybody important.

Rey's parents being linked to a Force-using lineage of significance also helped to justify her rapid gain in ability during TFA and even TLJ pre-reveal. Additionally, her being part of a major lineage could have functioned as a link to the previous six films. Kind of important if this was supposed to be all one story. For example, if Rey was a descendant of Obi-Wan Kenobi that would provide a link back to previous films. Rey redeeming Kylo would then bring the Skywalker/Kenobi relationship full circle. Rey being descended from random nobodies destroys the inter-generational link between the three trilogies.

That being said, it is certainly true that having gone the extremely obvious route with Rey's parentage - having her be a Skywalker - would have been bad, but there are so many other options. She could be a descendant of Qui-Gon or some other Old Republic Jedi. She could be Palpatine's descendant or even his female clone. She could be the last member of the line of Darth Bane. Just like Snoke's origin, the explanation could have been anything but Rian Johnson gave us nothing.

[Peelee]

Rey's parents being linked to a Force-using lineage of significance also helped to justify her rapid gain in ability during TFA and even TLJ pre-reveal. Additionally, her being part of a major lineage could have functioned as a link to the previous six films. Kind of important if this was supposed to be all one story. For example, if Rey was a descendant of Obi-Wan Kenobi that would provide a link back to previous films. Rey redeeming Kylo would then bring the Skywalker/Kenobi relationship full circle. Rey being descended from random nobodies destroys the inter-generational link between the three trilogies.

It doesn't, because Ben is that link. Rey doesn't need a familial link any more than Finn or Poe do.

[Devonix]

Rey's parents being linked to a Force-using lineage of significance also helped to justify her rapid gain in ability during TFA and even TLJ pre-reveal. Additionally, her being part of a major lineage could have functioned as a link to the previous six films. Kind of important if this was supposed to be all one story. For example, if Rey was a descendant of Obi-Wan Kenobi that would provide a link back to previous films. Rey redeeming Kylo would then bring the Skywalker/Kenobi relationship full circle. Rey being descended from random nobodies destroys the inter-generational link between the three trilogies.

That being said, it is certainly true that having gone the extremely obvious route with Rey's parentage - having her be a Skywalker - would have been bad, but there are so many other options. She could be a descendant of Qui-Gon or some other Old Republic Jedi. She could be Palpatine's descendant or even his female clone. She could be the last member of the line of Darth Bane. Just like Snoke's origin, the explanation could have been anything but Rian Johnson gave us nothing.

There were a lot of us hoping. BEGGING for Rey not to be related to or connected to any past Jedi. The idea her being related to anyone of the previous movies just makes the universe feel so small. It's a frikkin Galaxy, why do people need to be related to each other?

[Mechalich]

There were a lot of us hoping. BEGGING for Rey not to be related to or connected to any past Jedi. The idea her being related to anyone of the previous movies just makes the universe feel so small. It's a frikkin Galaxy, why do people need to be related to each other?

Because it is one story. Specifically, it is the story of the Skywalkers and of Palpatine. The universe is massive, but the story is not. You make the galaxy feel big by not having the Skywalkers in other Star Wars stories - like Rogue One or Solo - but in the story that is about the Skywalkers, you need the Skywalkers to be there. Rey is the protagonist of part 3 of the overarching story. Snoke was supposed to be the antagonist.

Star Wars is archetypical and exceedingly conventional, that's why it works the way it does. As a result Rey and Snoke both need links to the previous portion of the story. In TFA JJ Abrams teased the existence of those links while totally dodging what those links were specifically. In TLJ Rian Johnson undercut both the previous film and the overarching story by killing those links. That was a massive betrayal of the story as it existed.

This is a thread about the presence of Lando in Episode IX - it's a giant galaxy, Lando shouldn't matter, there must be hundreds of Republic admirals/senators (Lando's most likely role), but we want Lando because it's all still one story.


It doesn't, because Ben is that link. Rey doesn't need a familial link any more than Finn or Poe do.

Finn and Poe are characters propelled by circumstance. They acquire roles of importance in the story because they are in the right place at the right time to make choices that matter. Rey is not such a character. She is propelled by destiny. The Force chose her as a counterpart to Kylo Ren. This is heavily implied in TFA and explicitly stated in TLJ. It is quite obvious that Kylo Ren was not chosen at random, therefore Rey should not have been chosen at random - which is what her parents being nobodies implies - either. TFA makes it very clear she was chosen because of her lineage, so TLJ saying this was not so directly undercuts the previous movie. It's the storytelling equivalent of Rian Johnson punching JJ Abrams in the face.



Now, would it have been better, overall, for Rey not to be propelled by destiny at all, to have her be completely her own person? Sure. But the structure of the ST doesn't allow that and TFA specifically set up an alternative explanation. If you're assigned to write the second movie in a trilogy from which TFA is the first movie, starting with the script of TFA in your hands, making Rey's lineage amount to nothing at all was not an option.

I would have liked the heroine of the ST to have been some random Jedi that Luke had trained, thus moving the legacy from blood to teaching, while keeping Snoke as Darth Plagueis - thereby allowing the ultimate legacy of the Chosen One to triumph over the Sith as originally planned and placing the ST in a reasonable context with the OT and PT - but that was clearly too much to hope for.

[Malimar]

It's the storytelling equivalent of Rian Johnson punching JJ Abrams in the face.
If only we could all literally punch JJ Abrams in the face, the world would be a better place.

[Devonix]

It's the storytelling equivalent of Rian Johnson punching JJ Abrams in the face.




Ok this right here needs to stop. JJ Abrams was the Executive Producer for The Last Jedi. He had complete creative control and could have stepped in at any moment of the film. If he had plans for Rey, plans he wanted to do for another movie that Rian was stepping on. All he had to do was tell him. Hell. JJ could have had Rian Fired if he needed to.

Absolutely nothing Rian Johnson did flew in the face of JJ's vision or plans.

[Metahuman1]

I did look, as a matter of fact. And while I did find that Wayback Machine has archived many of Johnson's tweets, I didn't find a single one that sounds anything like what you've attributed to him. I'm not willing to spend potentially hours of my time verifying a claim you've made and have provided absolutely no evidence for, which is why I suggested politely that perhaps you could find one archived (since presumably you would know around when these tweets were made and thus have an easier time finding them than I would) to show an example of what you mean.

He started making tweets almost as soon as the movie came out and people started giving it bad reviews and taking issue with it. He's made plenty of blanket statements were he's asserted that anyone who's critiquing and not saying exclusively positive things about the movie is doing so for illegitimate reasons I've listed. I'm working about 4 12 hour shifts a week and posting from work when I have hours to sit in an office and glance at cameras because I need to keep myself awake and this is one of the few sites that doesn't cause the internet security protocols to freak out at my work. I have several hour long rehab sessions the other 3 days a week for my knees right now.

Johnson's been on this since last December, and only just recently stopped shortly after James Gunn. He's gotten professional media like freaking Steven Colbert to help him promote his version of evens and brow beat people like me on the matter in public. Google him F-bombing Mark Hamile at a public family event and you'll probably find that video easy enough.

But if you've not been paying his actions any attention for the last 9 months, and only now that the evidence source has been burned to the ground do you look for it, well, I'm sorry, I don't have the time either right now to do the extra leg work. You should have paid at least a mild bit of attention too it.



Depending on what they filmed for TFA and TLJ and haven't used, maybe they can eke out a couple brief scenes that will make sense. Like you however, I am not optimistic. I think the wise thing would have been to write Leia out of the story after Carrie Fisher died, perhaps simply by having her perish offscreen instead of coming back to tell Poe how wrong he was not to trust Holdo's moronic mishandling of everything. But since they didn't, they've got to do something to conclude her character arc, which means either an offscreen death before or during the film, or trying to make what they can out of archival footage. I just hope they aren't going to try to CGI her in there.

Given also there past treatment of he other legacy character in this movie, and the fact that they defiantly need to give her an onscreen death now, and the likely fairly limited material they've got to work with for that criteria, I'm in agreement. Maybe Stanley Kubrick or someone like that at the absolute top of there game could do it, but Abrams? Yeah.




Evidently we did not. The version of The Force Awakens I saw had a character piloting the Millennium Falcon better than Han Solo, besting experienced Force users at their own game mere hours after learning that the Force was even a thing that existed, and defeating (an admittedly wounded) Kylo Ren in a lightsaber battle. Whereas the version of The Last Jedi that I saw had her dead to rights in Snoke's chamber until Kylo Ren caught Snoke off guard with his betrayal. Nor do I recall anything that paints her as "more powerful than Any Jedi Ever." Yes, Rey is a Mary Sue. I simply believe that she's less of one than she was in TFA, and likely will be again with Abrams back at the helm in the next film.



I'd ask what making Rey not be a Skywalker, Solo, Kenobi, or Palpatine (as those were AFAIK the most popular theories) has to do with either Social Justice Warriors or Nihilism (and why are we capitalizing Nihilist, anyway?), but I suspect the answer would violate forum rules so instead I'm just gonna skip over that whole sentence.

In what way is not making her yet another legacy character bad writing? I'd argue that making her somehow be Kylo Ren's sister, or Obi-Wan's secret daughter/granddaughter despite no indication that he's ever had that kind of relationship, or Palpatine's female clone or something, are all significantly worse ideas than just having her be the daughter of two random people who aren't famous. We've got an entire galaxy to explore, so why does every character need to be descended from the same four people?

She pilots the falcon. Sure. She's struggling to do it. And all they needed to explain that was that she's picked some things up form pilots who come and go growing up on Jakku, similar to what Anakin Skywalker did when he was growing up, or what Luke did. Maybe even combo it with

Rey: "I, just get these feels, turn this direction now, press this button. Seems to work out."

Luke: "Good, that voice? That's the force. When you quite your mind, it can guide you."

It's not that hard to explain away, were talking less then 60 seconds of screen time.

She beat Ren, yes, he was badly injured, mentally tormented over what he'd just done, and not expecting her to manage to tap Jedi fighting techniques, and then the fight got interrupted before a clear winner was determined.

And again, this could have been explained away quickly as her getting lucky cause other stuff was going on and he was in bad shape, combo'd with her being talented, and he could even have sparred with her right then to show her that it was in fact luck, and she can't count on it happening again with out training. This of course would have required him to be able to best her to work.

Would have helped if she'd been related to someone, since Star Wars IS a mythology. It's Journey To The West. It's King Arthur. It's Hercules. It's a Kurosawa Samurai Story. And in mythology, legacy and lineage? Those are a BIG deal. And Star Wars is no different. In Mythology, the prince has a divine right, so he's able to find the magic sword he needs to slay the dragon and save the land. Hercules is important cause his Lineage gives him power.

Rey being no one? That shows a fundamental either lack of understanding of what he was doing, a or a fundamental desire to tear it apart at it's most basic level. And besides, he already had 2 other nobody characters. 3 if you count Rose. There was no reason not to let Rey be related to someone important to help explain her aptitude and talent and to sink with the mythology properly.

(Aside. We know Obi Wan had a thing for the Dutchess of Mandalor at one time. While it's unlikely he could have had a fling with her, it's not inconceivable that after the Empire Consolidated after The Clone Wars, her sister escaped, since we know her sister bailed Obi Wan out and had him go get republic help just before the end of the clone wars, and he had some time in his exile after the emperor came to power and turned Anakin with her and they had a kid.

And that kid, in turn, had to spend time in exile to keep away from the emperor, had of child of there own, and boom, there's Rey. Now just add something happening too Rey's parent/Obi Wan's kid, and boom, it all fits. )

And they have further more, taken away those justifications. So, now there's no justification for her preforming telekinetic feats that surpass Yoda and Anakin at there peaks at the end of the movie, out fighting half a room full of sith trained combatants, and managing to overcome Ren a 2nd time, or for any of the rest of the stuff from episode 7. That decision firmly locked her into Mary Sue turf, cause now all her ability are "Because I just am that amazing and perfect and better than everyone else.".



And again, as pointed out. It links THIS story together. Erso can be a nobody. People in Solo can be Nobody's. People on Rebels TV show can be Nobody's. But Rey? Very much the wrong thing to try to do with her. Yeah, it's unexpected and subversive. That in no way makes something good. If the next movie spent 10 minutes moving along like normal, and then all of a sudden the Death Star came out of some space clouds or something with no explanation given for the rest of the movie for how, and tractor beams and blows up The Millennium Falcon, and we spend the rest of the movie watching 2 new Sith Lords hunt down Kylo Ren, that would be subversive as well. Wouldn't make it a good movie though, now would it?





And yes, Either Abrams or Kennedy could have yanked Johnson up by the short hairs at any point. Instead, they fired a different guy who was arguing with Johnson, which is WHY Abrams is directing episode 9 now. They knew. They agreed with everything that took place and give it there full endorsement. Ergo, they all hold Star Wars and the people who go see it in contempt.

[Devonix]

She pilots the falcon. Sure. She's struggling to do it. And all they needed to explain that was that she's picked some things up form pilots who come and go growing up on Jakku, similar to what Anakin Skywalker did when he was growing up, or what Luke did. Maybe even combo it with

Rey: "I, just get these feels, turn this direction now, press this button. Seems to work out."

Luke: "Good, that voice? That's the force. When you quite your mind, it can guide you."

It's not that hard to explain away, were talking less then 60 seconds of screen time.


She's struggling to fly the Falcon because it's an older model ship, not one she's used to. However she did was a mechanic who worked on the Falcon and has experience flying other ships. There's nothing else they need to explain about it. She's an experienced pilot needing to get used to flying an old ship.

[Peelee]

Because it is one story. Specifically, it is the story of the Skywalkers and of Palpatine. The universe is massive, but the story is not.
Ok, Ben is a Skywalker. So.... mission accomplished?


Star Wars is archetypical and exceedingly conventional, that's why it works the way it does. As a result Rey and Snoke both need links to the previous portion of the story.
Why? The Emperor needed no links, but Snoke does?

It is quite obvious that Kylo Ren was not chosen at random, therefore Rey should not have been chosen at random -
Again, why? Ben was not chosen at random because he is a Skywalker. Why does Rey need to have any significance? Did Maul? Did Dooku? Did you complain about either of them having no ties to anyone else, except for "Palpy's little buddy?"