New Tortuga

[Bardagh]

I've been working on and off for a few years on a campaign setting built to subvert or avoid problematic tropes in D&D (racism, lack of verisimilitude, etc.) but I'm having trouble organizing my development. I have a wiki (newtortuga dot obsidianportal dot com) with a bunch of stuff already figured out, including a lot of hidden GM only backstory stuff, but I've just been flitting around from one thing to the next and not developing the backbone of the setting. Any tips on identifying which aspects to develop next?

[Unoriginal]

I've been working on and off for a few years on a campaign setting built to subvert or avoid problematic tropes in D&D

Trying to subvert or avoid a trope just means you're getting another trope instead, though.



problematic tropes in D&D (racism, lack of verisimilitude, etc.)


What are you talking about?



but I'm having trouble organizing my development. I have a wiki (newtortuga dot obsidianportal dot com) with a bunch of stuff already figured out, including a lot of hidden GM only backstory stuff, but I've just been flitting around from one thing to the next and not developing the backbone of the setting. Any tips on identifying which aspects to develop next?

Try to start with where you want the first session of campaign to start, and then think *why* you want it to start in this time and place, maybe?

[Tyro]

(this is Bardagh - I created a new profile then discovered I already had one using a different email)



What are you talking about?

The "noble savage" archetype, the anti-Semitic aspects of Tolkeinien dwarves, white=good/black=bad, "advanced" European style cultures vs "primitive/barbaric" African style cultures (see Chult), etc. etc.



Try to start with where you want the first session of campaign to start, and then think *why* you want it to start in this time and place, maybe?
[Edit: Misunderstood]: I've fleshed that area out already, but I need to work on various cultures, legal traditions, geographical details, etc.

[Unoriginal]

The "noble savage" archetype

Not something D&D is particularly using.



the anti-Semitic aspects of Tolkeinien dwarves

Tolkien's Dwarves are not anti-Semitic, and D&D does not use Tolkien's Dwarves.

Tolkien had many faults, but anti-semitism was not one of them.


white=good/black=bad

Are you talking about design aesthetic for clothes and environment?


"advanced" European style cultures vs "primitive/barbaric" African style cultures (see Chult)

The "European-style cultures" are not portrayed as advanced nor the Chultian portrayed as primitive or barbaric. Chult has fallen on hard time compared to their past, admittedly, but that was mostly due to internal warfare, evil necromancers harassing them, and the conquests from outsiders who are clearly depicted as being ****wits for doing so.



I'm not to the point of writing adventures yet. This is worldbuilding, not adventure writing.

Then start by the country, location, event or character that interest you the most.

[Edit: Misunderstood]: I've fleshed that area out already, but I need to work on various cultures, legal traditions, geographical details, etc.[/QUOTE]

Well an important thing in a setting is to not try to cover everything. The blank spaces are just as important as the written ones.

That being said, an advice that's useful: start with the most prominent culture in the area, and its link with the other cultures.

[iTreeby]

You say magical communication has limited the diversity of language but also say magic is extremely rare and looked down on and sometimes is literally evil and also doesn't translate languages well. duergar straight up are gnomes so why change the name?

"Tala is rarely spoken, especially the written form" is pretty unclear in its meaning or implication. I guess non gnomes are very often unable to write it?

On the whole yeah, it's a neato alternate setting, I don't get why not being able to understand anyone or even each other is going to help subvert tropes as far as development advice? Maybe describe some of the regions in detail

And your orks are very orky seeming. Maybe you can get some more details on them too

[Zippdementia]

Sometimes when people say they want to avoid tropes what they really mean is that they want to be seen as original. But I think that when starting any creative project it is better to set out knowing what you want to accomplish, rather than what you want to avoid. Don’t give yourself barriers, give yourself direction. After all, if you come up with an idea that excites you and also happens to involve a classic dwarves vs elves scenario, it doesn’t help you to throw away that idea just because it involves a trope.

Doing a trope really well is just as impressive as avoiding them altogether and I never in my life have decided to try out a new creative product because “it avoids the tropes.” Name of the Wind has many many tropes, but holy **** does it do them better than anyone else, and it’s my favorite fantasy novel.

Also keep in mind when creating a new setting that you are doing just that: creating a setting. Your players and DMs will be the ones who actually determine the stories told in that setting (spoiler: they will be full of tropes, because not everyone is a trend setter). Be careful that you aren’t forcing players to adhere to one vision for what your world will be. The best settings can be host to comedy games, dark games, slapstick ridiculous games, political games, spy games, dungeon crawls, beat-em-up adventures, and epic complicated stories because while they are compelling, they are also ripe for freedom of exploration.

[Caesar]

This thread is begging to get shut down... Your campaign sounds like a real blast though. :sigh:

[Tyro]

Not something D&D is particularly using.
Tolkien's Dwarves are not anti-Semitic, and D&D does not use Tolkien's Dwarves.

Tolkien had many faults, but anti-semitism was not one of them.



Are you talking about design aesthetic for clothes and environment?



The "European-style cultures" are not portrayed as advanced nor the Chultian portrayed as primitive or barbaric. Chult has fallen on hard time compared to their past, admittedly, but that was mostly due to internal warfare, evil necromancers harassing them, and the conquests from outsiders who are clearly depicted as being ****wits for doing so.



Then start by the country, location, event or character that interest you the most.

[Edit: Misunderstood]: I've fleshed that area out already, but I need to work on various cultures, legal traditions, geographical details, etc.

Well an important thing in a setting is to not try to cover everything. The blank spaces are just as important as the written ones.

That being said, an advice that's useful: start with the most prominent culture in the area, and its link with the other cultures.
You're both wrong and unhelpful. Do us both a favor and do some research. Tolkein himself admitted that he'd inadvertently used some anti-Semetic tropes in creating dwarves (greedy, hook-nosed, selfish, etc.)


This thread is begging to get shut down... Your campaign sounds like a real blast though. :sigh:

Why would it get shut down?


Sometimes when people say they want to avoid tropes what they really mean is that they want to be seen as original. But I think that when starting any creative project it is better to set out knowing what you want to accomplish, rather than what you want to avoid. Don’t give yourself barriers, give yourself direction. After all, if you come up with an idea that excites you and also happens to involve a classic dwarves vs elves scenario, it doesn’t help you to throw away that idea just because it involves a trope.

Doing a trope really well is just as impressive as avoiding them altogether and I never in my life have decided to try out a new creative product because “it avoids the tropes.” Name of the Wind has many many tropes, but holy **** does it do them better than anyone else, and it’s my favorite fantasy novel.

Also keep in mind when creating a new setting that you are doing just that: creating a setting. Your players and DMs will be the ones who actually determine the stories told in that setting (spoiler: they will be full of tropes, because not everyone is a trend setter). Be careful that you aren’t forcing players to adhere to one vision for what your world will be. The best settings can be host to comedy games, dark games, slapstick ridiculous games, political games, spy games, dungeon crawls, beat-em-up adventures, and epic complicated stories because while they are compelling, they are also ripe for freedom of exploration.

My issue is specifically with *problematic* tropes, of which D&D has many.


You say magical communication has limited the diversity of language but also say magic is extremely rare and looked down on and sometimes is literally evil and also doesn't translate languages well. duergar straight up are gnomes so why change the name?

"Tala is rarely spoken, especially the written form" is pretty unclear in its meaning or implication. I guess non gnomes are very often unable to write it?

On the whole yeah, it's a neato alternate setting, I don't get why not being able to understand anyone or even each other is going to help subvert tropes as far as development advice? Maybe describe some of the regions in detail

And your orks are very orky seeming. Maybe you can get some more details on them too

I should have posted some of the hidden content. I'll do that now.

The changes to languages are necessary for archeological mysteries ("Tongues" makes translating ancient languages far too easy) and for my own pleasure as a linguist. There's a lot of plot potential in communication barriers.

[Tyro]

Duergar are based on the svartalfar of the original Norse myths which inspired Tolkein. I didn't call them gnomes because although there are many similarities, I'm trying to break with tradition & I don't want players to make assumptions about them based on what those players know about existing D&D races. Here's their "GM only" section with their history & culture:

The duergar were not always so scattered or so hidden. For most of history they were a race of simple farmers living in a series of fertile mountain valleys. Long lived and bearing few children, their numbers stayed small, allowing them to create a stable and prosperous society.

About 2,500 years ago, a young duergar named Atarax was a scholar and minor wizard. An integral part of traditional wizard training was learning to navigate altered states; mages would ingest "reality revealers", a species of mountain plant known for expanding the mind, inspiring creative thought, and enhancing sensitivity to magical energies. Under the influence of the plant, he had an epiphany regarding the nature of magic.

Divine magic, he realized, was a manifestation of the collective unconscious of all thinking creatures. It explained how people with different beliefs would produce different spells using identical techniques, and how only people dedicated to a belief system firmly rooted in widespread cultural truisms developed the ability to channel and manipulate divine power.

This realization led to experimentation, and he soon discovered that through meditation and visualization of the appropriate energy flows, he could manifest magical effects previously thought to be the exclusive province of divine casters. (Mechanically, he was the first Theurgist, or wizard of the Theurgy school.)

Atarax founded a school, called the Seekers, which taught the concept of gods as archetypes, the existence of the _unus mundus_ (the collective unconscious of thinking beings), and which encouraged its members to research interactions between divine and arcane energies. The teachings of the Seekers quickly became the dominant school of philosophy among the duergar, and their experiments led to rapid advances in duergar understanding of magical theory.

The Seekers quickly discovered arcane magic's affinity for crystals, developing techniques for storing concentrated magic within permanent arcane patterns in gemstones. Such stones were in short supply, however, and so they began to mine. The Duergar home was near an extinct volcano, and they soon had gems in abundance. Using mined gemstones, the Duergar began experimenting in earnest.

The first Duergar artificers were severely limited by the amount of arcane energy available to them. Based on their research into arcane magic and crystals, some among the Seekers theorized that magic flowed along [[Ley Lines | channels]] of naturally occuring crystal such as quartz. Experimentation soon proved them right, and tapping into these lines allowed the artificers to create powerful magical tools to aid their people: artifacts to create food, to soften stone, to spy from afar.

Magical research requires a significant quantity of gemstones; the duergar had soon mined deep into the mountain. In the course of their mining operations, they discovered the Grand Convergence: a massive quartz deposit on a confluence of ley lines, an indescribably potent power source if they could learn to tap it safely.

Atarax dedicated himself to researching the Convergence, and after years of study created the Moment Momenta, an artifact which allowed him to safely tap the Grand Convergence. He became more and more detached from worldy concerns, obsessed with magical research to the exclusion of all else. He continued this way for almost two centuries, then came to the conclusion that he must extend his life in order to continue his research and further benefit his people.

To this end, Atarax re-focused his research, studying various potential routes to immortality. After fifty years of study and experiments, he created an artifact which would come to be called the Soul of Atarax. The Soul could channel the power of the ley lines into a theoretically unlimited number of destination objects with fine control over the power flows, making it possible to tap the full potential of the Convergence. He planned to merge his consciousness with the artifact, allowing him to live for eternity as a disembodied consciousness, controlling golems and other mindless servitors in order to continue his work.

The other Seekers, fearful of what an immortal spirit of such great power might become, interrupted the ritual, killing Atarax when the energy he had summoned backlashed through his body. In order to assure that the power of the Convergence would never be abused, the remaining Seekers built a government designed to prevent concentration of power: no one person would ever again control the Soul of Atarax.

Over time the duergar developed a stable, thriving culture. In order to protect and efficiently utilize the Grand Confluence, the Seekers built a great city under the mountain, channeling its enormous power through the Soul of Atarax. Soon after the entire duergar population moved underground.

With minimal population growth thanks to a naturally low reproduction rate, they are able to meet the basic needs of every duergar. The Grand Confluence powers the city, its guardian golems, and the experiments and grand spells of the Duergar mages, its titanic energy channeled and split through the Soul of Atarax.

Using scrying magic and teleportation circles, the modern duergar make people believe they have scattered kingdoms throughout the world. Their real home is well hidden, a single massive underground city in a remote mountain region far from any other major civilization. They have outposts near areas of major interest, mostly trading partners such as the Dragonborn; by never letting outsiders past their gates, they ensure that nobody catches on to the fact that these outposts are actually quite small, mostly just defensive emplacements leading to a portal room.


Duergar are separated into ráðstarfa, or castes. Highest social status is enjoyed by the Seekers and the Tinkers. Below that is the Fabricators, then the Factotum, and finally the Minders.

The Æztrþing (law-makers) and Æztr Dæma (high court) are Seekers or Tinkers considered particularly wise, nominated by their peers and confirmed by the sitting members of the council in question. The lower courts work in a similar manner, save that Fabricators are also eligible.

The Seekers are teachers and researchers; they rarely build anything, instead focusing on improving duergar understanding of the nature of magic. They sometimes partner with Tinkers to build prototypes. Librarians and historians also fall into this category, as are economists.

Tinkers invent and craft magitechnological devices: golems, city infrastructure, weapons, gadgets, whatever seems interesting and useful. This caste also includes artists of particular skill and vision, such as talented musicians and sculptors, as well as city planners and architects.

Fabricators are tasked with the large scale manufacture of Tinker inventions. They are also used by the Tinkers as lab techs. On major construction projects teams of Fabricators are led by Tinker overseers. Common artists are also in this caste.

Factotum are general maintenence workers, tasked with the day to day functioning of the duergar home. A typical factotum crew includes one to a handful of adult duergar & several pre-caste adolescents who act as assistants.

Finally, Minders are particularly unimaginative or incompetent duergar tasked with the routine functioning of the golems the duergar use for manual labor. They program the golems’ instructions for each task and intervene when a golem gets stuck or malfunctions in some way. Guards typically consist of one or more golems with a shift rotation of Minders.

Duergar who are unable to function in one of these roles are cared for by their society, but they enjoy none of the benefits of higher caste status: their food, lodgings, and luxuries are adequate, but only barely. This does not apply to duergar who have become disabled after providing a significant benefit to duergar society; such individuals are accorded the same privileges as they held before their disability.

Duergar children are raised common. School starts very early in life; children are taught all together and evaluated for several years, then formed into groups called vinrmegin based on their aptitudes. Vinrmegin groups typically stay close for many years (even across caste boundaries), a bond very similar to sibling-hood.

At adolescence the students are assigned to factotum as assistants. In this way they gain a hands-on education and learn perspective from a humble viewpoint. When their education is deemed complete (typically after 5-10 years), the Seeker in charge of a group assigns them to their adult castes. Outside of extraordinary circumstances groups are only advanced when all members are ready; this encourages the youths to learn habits of cooperation & mutual support.

The duergar have no standing army. Some tinkers and fabricators specialize in weapons or garrison golems, but duergar avoid personal violence whenever possible. External threats are neutralized with weapons emplacements, traps, and golems. Personal weapons are forbidden; to craft or possess one carries a heavy legal penalty. Exception: Duergar travelling in the lands of other races are allowed to use and carry weapons appropriate to that locale.


The Soul of Atarax:

The Soul of Atarax is a flawless dome cut blood ruby the size of a dinner plate. Its surface is inscribed with glowing runes which seem to shift as you look at them. It shines with an inner light which pulses rhythmically, giving the impression of an eldritch crystal heart.

The Soul was created long ago by a legendary duergar mage called Atarax. Its purpose is to moderate and regulate a powerful source of magic, allowing the duergar to split the incredible power of a ley line confluence in order to power a multitude of different spells. The Soul could channel the power of the ley lines into a theoretically unlimited number of destination objects with fine control over the power flows, making it possible to tap the full potential of the Convergence.


My version of Aboleths:

The Aboleths were created by the Eldest as living tools. They allow it to be present in many places at once, each linked psychically with the mind of their progenitor. Practically speaking they function as a hive mind, each with the capacity for individual action but with no individual ambition or preservation instinct. Without a psychic link to the Eldest, aboleths enter a deep hibernation. As they do not age, this hibernation can last for eons, the aboleth’s apparently lifeless body almost impossible to find in the pitch black of the deepest ocean.

Note that the picture above is only an example; aboleths vary significantly in shape, size, and even basic anatomy, though they do tend to share a few traits (at least as large as a small whale, more than two eyes, tentacles, etc).


Here's the Aboleth Xenocide, one of the main pieces of secret history integral to the setting:



The Eldest is an ancient demigod, a supernatural entity of incredible power and the oldest living creature in existence. Its body is a mass of eyes and tentacles which fill an undersea temple built 3,000 years ago by the merfolk.

The Eldest fell into dreaming long ago, before the rise of technological civilization. For eons it slumbered in its cave deep in the lightless depths of the ocean, but the merfolk excavated its cave in order to better study the creature.

Arrogant and always hungry for greater knowledge, the merfolk eventually awoke the Eldest from its slumber. After the merfolk awoke the Eldest, it began a dialogue with them, learning all it could about the state of the world and sharing just enough knowledge to make them believe it was friendly. Meanwhile, elsewhere the Eldest’s newly awakened aboleths were corrupting and altering a primitive aquatic humanoid race, the Sahuagin. Their size and intelligence were increased, and they were given the ability to breathe air for a few hours at a time. They were also given the skills and knowledge necessary to sabotage the Merfolk’s magical defenses. Mere months after the merfolk discovered the Eldest, it sent its altered sahuagin to invade the unsuspecting merfolk empire.

When the threat became clear the merfolk mobilized, but it was too late. Eventually the merfolk high council, having lost all hope of defeating the sahuagin in combat, cast a terrible spell and ended the war. The spell sent a psychic shockwave ripping through the ether, meant to sever the psychic links between the Eldest and its creatures and hopefully kill the ancient demigod.

The spell went horribly wrong. The few remaining members of the merfolk high council died in its casting. With nobody managing the enormous energy raised in its casting, the magic rippled through the psychic links the merfolk used to communicate with their troops, mutating them horribly. The affected troops were transformed into hideous mockeries of their former selves, huge brutes with the intelligence and instincts of animals. The merfolk empire fell soon after to its former protectors, the creatures known today as merrow.

The sahuagin, newly free of mental domination, knew the Eldest was only stunned. They repurposed the merfolk capitol’s magical grid to imprison it, then fled to warmer waters. Once safely away, they constructed temples on major ley lines leading into the merfolk capitol grid. They have used these temples to prevent the prison’s magic from degrading over time and to keep watch on the Eldest. They have done so for the past three millennia.

Over time, however, some of the sahuagin temples which maintain the prison have been destroyed by natural disasters or lost to invaders. When the sahuagin settlement at the Glittering Banks was overrun and claimed by the Dar a generation ago, the magic which cages the Eldest was weakened enough for it to exert limited psychic influence against the merrow living near its undersea home.

Merrow were unsophisticated brutes for most of their history. In recent days, however, the Eldest has managed to dominate a few of their number. For the past ten years these puppets have been waging a war of attrition on the sahuagin, their end goal being the destruction of the temples. They are based in the former merfolk capitol site, which they are excavating and rebuilding under the Eldest’s control. Soon the aboleths which have lain in hibernation since the war will awaken, and the Aboleth Xenocide will begin anew.


Merfolk history:

The merfolk were once master artificers. Objects from merfolk cities are found on rare occasion by scavengers, and are typically bought up by duergar who wish to keep potentially dangerous magic out of the hands of more primitive races. They do this under the guise of historical research; most such objects are harmless, but the duergar do not wish to risk an ancient weapon falling into the wrong hands.

3,000 years ago the merfolk awoke the Eldest from its slumber. This act of hubris led in short order to the death of their entire civilization. There were rumors just before this that the merfolk had discovered a cache of ancient knowledge, but its exact nature and contents were kept a close secret known only to a few of the merfolk high council. The details of the downfall of the merfolk died with their race.

Stats as monster manual, but change Int to 5. When being controlled, merrow have effective mental statistics equal to the aboleth controlling them.


Sahuagin history:

3,000 years ago the merfolk awoke the Eldest, which began corrupting and altering a primitive aquatic humanoid race, the Sahuagin. Their size and intelligence were increased, and they were given the ability to breathe air for a few hours at a time. Eventually the altered sahuagin were used to invade the unsuspecting merfolk empire.

With the fall of the aboleths and the deaths of the merfolk, the sahuagin could no longer maintain the magitechnology which kept them warm; they now need warm shallow coastal waters or hydrothermal vents to survive. These vents are rare, so the sahuagin compete with the Dar for shallows and sea caves.


Dar history:

The dar were once a peaceful race of hunter-gatherers who lived among the surf and sea stacks of forbidding coastlines. Then 3,000 years ago the sahuagin discovered them, beginning a century-long struggle that almost ended in the extinction of their race. Eventually the war cooled, as the death and destruction of their war decimated both races. No peace was ever formally declared, and raids are still fairly common in both directions, but wide scale open hostilities ceased when the governments of both sides dissolved. Neither race has had a central government since that time.

[Unoriginal]

Duergar are based on the svartalfar of the original Norse myths which inspired Tolkein. I didn't call them gnomes because although there are many similarities, I'm trying to break with tradition & I don't want players to make assumptions about them based on what those players know about existing D&D races.

Errr... there is an existing D&D race called the Duergars. If you want to break tradition and not have players make assumption about them based on what they know, you should probably pick a different name.


You're both wrong and unhelpful. Do us both a favor and do some research. Tolkein himself admitted that he'd inadvertently used some anti-Semetic tropes in creating dwarves (greedy, hook-nosed, selfish, etc.)

You are incorrect.

http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Racism_in_Tolkien's_Works#Dwarves_as_Jews

Tolkien recognized similarities with Jewish people and the Dwarves, but only in term of linguistic and because they (or at least the ones in "The Hobbit") were forced out of their former land.

Also, Tolkien's dwarves are *never* described as hook-nosed.

But if you can show me evidences of what you say, I'll admit you were right.

However, I'll drop the issue otherwise, as it's close to breaking the rules.

[Tyro]

Errr... there is an existing D&D race called the Duergars. If you want to break tradition and not have players make assumption about them based on what they know, you should probably pick a different name.

Duergar in existing D&D are a very minor race which haven't been very fleshed out, and the original term was a synonym for svartalfar.



Tolkien recognized similarities with Jewish people and the Dwarves, but only in term of linguistic and because they (or at least the ones in "The Hobbit") were forced out of their former land.

Also, Tolkien's dwarves are *never* described as hook-nosed.

But if you can show me evidences of what you say, I'll admit you were right.

However, I'll drop the issue otherwise, as it's close to breaking the rules.
Check the original illustrations. Also, your own link identifies problematic content: "Throughout the books, Tolkien paints a mostly positive picture of the dwarves (Gimli of course is brave and honourable, and it is stated in one of the Appendices to The Lord of the Rings that "few Dwarves ever served the enemy willingly", contrary to the tales of Men) and elsewhere he made explicitly positive statements about the Jewish people.

However, one of the weaknesses of the Dwarves was their greed for gold and other riches, amplified by the Seven Rings. Some see a connection between this and the stereotype of the Jewish usurer. It is also possible to draw a connection between the bearded Dwarves and the beards of Orthodox Jews."

[Caesar]

"Why would it get shut down?" Because discussing real world politics or religion is not allowed, and for good reason. You should probably read the forum rules, there's a sticky.

[Isaire]

Duergar in existing D&D are a very minor race which haven't been very fleshed out, and the original term was a synonym for svartalfar.

I wouldn't say that. Anyone who watches critical role will have encountered them, they're pretty much a favourite enemy for any underdark campaign it seems. But it's just a a name and you can worry too much about people carrying preconceptions with them.

[NotPrior]

white=good/black=bad

This is meant to be from the concepts of light (daytime, warmth, being able to see things) versus dark (night time, cold, being eaten by sabre-toothed tigers) which is fundamental to human nature due to the fact we are diurnal creatures. Darkness is bad, light is good. Black is dark, white is light. They're also opposed and easily distinguishable for easy identification.

[Zippdementia]

However, one of the weaknesses of the Dwarves was their greed for gold and other riches, amplified by the Seven Rings. Some see a connection between this and the stereotype of the Jewish usurer. It is also possible to draw a connection between the bearded Dwarves and the beards of Orthodox Jews."

This isn’t proof he was anti-semetic. “Some see a connection” and “It is also possible” are words of conjecture, not proof. I think the article overalls pretty clearly shows that Tolkein was not anti-semetic. Also, if you’ve read the collection of his letters, in several he actually seems to hold the Jewish race in quite high regard, as opposed to the Aryan nation, which he speaks against in several letters.

[Tyro]

"Why would it get shut down?" Because discussing real world politics or religion is not allowed, and for good reason. You should probably read the forum rules, there's a sticky.

I'm not the one who started that. I mentioned in passing that I'm trying to combat certain harmful stereotypes and Unoriginal et al started lecturing me on it.

[Caesar]

I'm not the one who started that. I mentioned in passing that I'm trying to combat certain harmful stereotypes and Unoriginal et al started lecturing me on it.

You started the thread by bringing up racism in DnD. Where did you think it was going to go? Hell, you can't even justify it by claiming you meant elven racism against humans or some story like that, because without the real world connection, why would you then claim that fantasy racism is problematic? It's clearly a real-world discussion and it's a can of worms.

That said, I feel bad for your players. People play DnD to escape into a world of fantasy. But here you are, reminding them around every corner that the real world's problems are more important to you than running an enjoyable game. Sounds like a real party. :smallsigh::smallsigh::smallsigh:

[Unoriginal]

That said, I feel bad for your players. People play DnD to escape into a world of fantasy. But here you are, reminding them around every corner that the real world's problems are more important to you than running an enjoyable game. Sounds like a real party. :smallsigh::smallsigh::smallsigh:

Hey now, some people like that kind of settings, no need to be dismissive of that.

[GaelofDarkness]

I've been working on and off for a few years on a campaign setting built to subvert or avoid problematic tropes in D&D (racism, lack of verisimilitude, etc.) but I'm having trouble organizing my development. I have a wiki (newtortuga dot obsidianportal dot com) with a bunch of stuff already figured out, including a lot of hidden GM only backstory stuff, but I've just been flitting around from one thing to the next and not developing the backbone of the setting. Any tips on identifying which aspects to develop next?

When I'm worldbuilding, I don't use a wiki because I'm a sucker for punishment and tend not to bring many notes to the table - just a cheat sheet with names of things, places and people - if I couldn't remember some aspect of the culture in country X, it probably wasn't all that important. But if it's at all helpful I'll explain how I structure and develop my notes - WARNING LONG.

The basics is that I put down headings in an order - going from physics to sociology - and every section is gradually broken down into more specific subheadings. It'd look something like this:

Cosmology - Is everything sitting in an astral sea? Is there a distinction between inner and outer planes? Any changes to the nature of the overall dnd multiverse go here.

Magic - I understand magic as being physics unlike the real world. I can just leave this as "whatever dnd 5e does, it just works" or "The Weave as in FR" if I'm not really doing anything interesting here obviously. If there's phlebotinum though, or different schools of thought on magic and how it works, I'd note that here.

Places - my atlas with everything from a map of the multiverse to directions to the general store from the tavern.


Plane - I ignore this heading if I'm taking the greater multiverse as is and are only worldbuilding the setting in the material plane.


World (Or subregion within the plane that is of relevance) - Is is a planet as we know it or not? How many moons? Are there notable constellations - or do I just leave that stuff out and make it up if someone asks? What's the general climate like, how many landmasses? etc. This stuff can usually be filled in later when the campaign becomes more epic though.


Continent - usually all there is to say is general features of the climate and any notes on seismic or volcanic activity - I can always throw in a volcano later without breaking verisimilitude because hot spots are a real thing but if I want a "Ring of Fire"-like region, I'd put that here.


Countries and/or regions defined by physical geography - where most of the naming happens. I don't dive into the region's cultures here though.


Cities, towns and landmarks - more naming. Also note capitals, sites of strategic importance, trading hubs or locations with access to or specialization in rare resources and products e.g. this town has one of the only mines with a vein of phlebotinum!


Specific sections and locations inside a city.


Might go as narrow as giving a heading for the secret devil shrine whose entrance is hidden in the tavern's storeroom.







Reckoning of Time - How many days are in a year. How is the calendar divided into seasons, months and weeks? Are there different calendars? Significant dates are put here but the cultural significance is rarely explained in depth - I do that under the heading of Culture.

Bestiary - homebrew changes to creatures whether that's a cosmetic re-skinning, a few stat changes or entirely home-brewed additions. This'd also include notes on a creature's home range in-world if they have one.


For example - Dragons. I tend not to use the metallic/chromatic distinction in my homebrew. It's just not what I want my dragons to be. So I'd put here whatever I do want my dragons to be.


Fire Dragons - a gold dragon re-skin or something else?

Frost Dragons - a white dragon re-skin or something else?

Etc.


Intelligent Species/Races/Ancestries - whatever term one wants to use, this is where most of the humanoids go including homebrew. I don't put anything about culture here but if there is an origin story for them or if they are only found in sizable numbers on specific continents or in certain environments that goes here too. Treat it much like the bestiary but with a different heading for ease of access to player options and the like.

Cultures - here's where I do most of the dive into history and traditions on each culture.


History - a timeline of the culture's history. The timelines of different cultures and states will overlap with other cultures' and states' so this becomes an interconnected web with lots of repetition pretty quickly. DO NOT forget the flesh out the recent history of a culture to set the stage for your players. This helps create a living world rather than one which has passively been doing whatever their ancestors did for centuries without change. This really helps with versimilitude - unless of course you're intentionally creating a static culture for your players to interact with. If this becomes unmanageable, divide the timeline into periods and these into sequences of events and these into individual events of significance.

Symbols - this refers to a means of communicating meaning. There's actually more to this than most people realize.


Language - What do they speak? If this is a more cosmopolitan culture are there many languages spoken? Is there a social connotation to certain languages that conveys status, class or academic achievement. Is there a specific accent associated with this culture?


Slang - different subsets of the culture be they classes, professions or neighborhoods may use languages differently. This is a really interesting way of introducing themes of class into the game subtly. DO NOT use heavy handed or insensitive coding to communicate this though.

Cants - different groups may speak a cant to intentionally avoid being understood by outsiders. Thieves' Cant has been made famous by dnd but in real life you have examples like Polari and Cockney Rhyming Slang and all three were simultaneously active in the UK. Gyaru-Moji is a modern example from Japan that mirrors the phenomenon of texting language in English except that Gyaru-Moji took longer to write and used more characters so the purpose of obfuscation was pretty central to Gyaru-Moji.


Icons - I'm using this to refer to what most of us think of as symbols and gestures. Does a sign with a lit candle on an old fashioned candle holder with a handle imply that the building is an inn or that it is a chandler? Does raising one's open, forward-facing palm mean that you want a person to stop or that you want to communicate that you're not holding a weapon? This includes functional symbols (street signs, traffic lights and hobo signs are all examples), symbols of pride or heritage (flags, seals and heraldry are common examples) and culture-relevant religious iconography (even within a given religion there are cultural and regional variations, for example Irish Catholics see meaning in shamrocks (trinitarian interpretation of the Godhead) or St. Brigid's Cross (associated with Spring and protection from harm) that one might expect would be understood by Irish people regardless of religion but not understood by Catholics with no exposure to Irish culture).

Values - this describes the things that people in the culture consider virtuous and meaningful. These values then inform beliefs - which are ideas about how they should organize themselves as a response to these values. For example, individualism may be a value which may lead to the belief that people shouldn't live with their families if they can afford not to, so they can be more independent.

Folkways - Informal rules that one should follow but aren't the biggest deal if one breaks them. Breaking folkways can actually be seen as a power move or endear one with a subculture or counterculture. This includes picking one's nose and refusing to shake a powerful person's hand when they introduce themselves.

Traditions - here I specifically include things like festivals and specific practices the people have.


Mores - social norms with a moral component. These tend to be more formal and have explicit rules or laws determine the mores. They are not however universal or central, unbreakable rules to the culture. For example, killing is usually seen as a folkway because killing in wartime can be seen as necessary if regrettable - even though a culture can hold life sacred.

Taboos - DO NOT BREAK THESE RULES EVER! These are not what most people mean by taboos but rather the most serious kind of norm. It is never considered acceptable to break the taboo in a given culture - ever. An example would be harming a child. It's never OK. It's always a bad thing. Cannibalism might be included to - especially if one's talking about in the setting of the culture's everyday life and not extreme cases of being marooned on an island. Note that not all cultures have the same taboos. Some cultures find the practices of other's excessively lax or incomprehensibly horrifying. This is perfectly human-oid. This doesn't necessarily mean one thinks the other culture consists of monsters or anything they just really don't like or accept that particular thing.

Subcultures - subsections of your culture. It's worthwhile to flesh this section out when trying to represent a marginalized group, but also when it comes to say Pop culture (People's Choice Awards) vs. "High" Culture (The Academy Awards).

Countercultures - a subculture that has the notable distinction of being in opposition to the norm (usually as determined by the most powerful subculture). Useful for when you want players to interact with cultural change as it's happening.


Governments - This is where I list the countries and other organizations/factors that aspire to be states (freedom fighters or coup-plotters as is relevant).
If political structures in the homebrew follow a nation state model where countries and cultural/ethnic groups are deeply interconnected then this could be fused with the Cultures heading.


Government System - Is a state ruled by a monarch or a council of mages? There is potentially a lot of detail that can go in here. Look at systems of peerage for example.

Laws and Judiciary - Put the legal system here. Is there a jury? Is there a travelling magistrate who handles legal disputes? Does whatever the monarch says go?

Power Distribution - Outside of formal structures, there is always some individuals or groups that hold significant political power. There are powerful families or businesses or institutions.


Religions and Other Organisations - The different religions, academies, philosophies of life and so on that matter should go here. I'd list the form of organization or lack thereof, the rituals or functions it fulfills, what resources the group controls or manage and any other relevant details. This might include the Thieve's Guild, the Cult of the Sun God, the Alchemist's Academy or Hunter's Lodge.



I don't develop these headings in order. I fill them in initially as they occur to me. When I'm trying to finish off, I identify the headings that are the most relevant to the campaign and see which of these are relatively lacking. These are the ones that need to be fleshed out. Start with the first session or two, then the first arc of the narrative (or the first dungeon for a dungeon crawl) and then gradually fill in the aspects that become relevant over time. While I might add stuff in just to scratch the worldbuilding itch, I consider it really important to allow players to guide you on what they want you to develop. Unless you have a group that has explicitly signed up for a somewhat linear experience, don't make it one.

When you're looking for inspiration to help fill something in, STEAL, STEAL, STEAL! OK, I don't mean to appropriate stuff in a disrespectful manner. However, one can take real-world analogs or stuff from other fictional worlds to guide your worldbuilding without being hackneyed or a jerk about it. I understand if you're trying to remove certain coding that you feel is prevalent in mainstream high fantasy but understand that coding is not an inherently negative term. It's a short hand that fills in texture for players - not allegory that is meant to say something about the group it draws coding from. The problem only emerges if the coding feeds into harmful stereotyping or is played for distasteful humor - imo anyways. It's not really possible to avoid coding of any kind because you are going to put some of your perspectives of people into NPCs one way or another. Trying too hard to avoid coding leaves characters very sterile or - arguably worse - leaves you with a cast of characters that are utterly, ubiquitously the norm. You can always mix in different aspects to make the coding a little less clear if you want. Start a conversation about coding in a popular sci-fi or fantasy and as long as it's not heavy-handed there will be legitimate debate about what the coding is - that can literally run gambit of all the nationalities, ethnicities and religions from all across world.

It's completely reasonable to take inspiration for a culture's, say, architecture from a real world example as long as you do so well. The Alhambra is an example of beautiful and intricate design that could be re-purposed as a temple to a god of art or love or what have you. Just don't turn it into a stereotype. I always found Mont Saint-Michel really striking and I'd love to see someone take it and turn it into a the palace in a capital city of a thalassocratic nation. Or put it underwater and turn it upside-down! Land-lubbers can only enter the town at low tide to speak with the aquatic inhabitants to trade.

There are some really unusual examples of real world, natural environments that can make very memorable imagery for your players. Have you seen Fly Geyser in Nevada? It's so weird and gorgeous! Or Pamukkale in Turkey? They are not too difficult to describe and can be stuck in as landmarks in the wilderness or adjoining a town or dungeon. Fly Geyser could be in a cavern in the Underdark or it could be the result of encroachment from the Lower Planes. After travelling through a dungeon built into a mountain (once the base of a radical cabal of sorcerers) climbing through level after level of traps, spectres and oozes only to walk out onto one side of Pamukkale with the entrance to the final room on the other side (guarded by a water weird they don't see coming). That implies you need a radical cabal of sorcerers - get worldbuilding!

Honestly, sometimes just searching through art pages or photography competitions of various kinds is a great source of inspiration. There's always something interesting in there if you give it a go, I've found. If visual prompts aren't your thing, there's always music or verbal ques that you can use. Writing prompts are easy to find and if you have a favorite piece of prose or poetry you could try taking inspiration from there.

If this is a dead end, then look at what you see in the mainstream of fantasy or the norms of your own culture. Analyse it to find certain aspects that stand out - maybe things that you take for granted - and invert them. From there just take rational steps to see how it fleshes out. An example would be that it's pretty common for us to take for granted that it's common for children to be raised by people in romantic relationships. Maybe in your culture the norm is for the children to be raised by their biological mother and her siblings, never being expected to have a close relationship to their biological father but the idea of an estranged uncle being troubling to them. In this example, a family with no daughters in the next generation may adopt to ensure that there is a chance for the next generation to thrive - if the culture has a high death rate (due to environmental factors or living in a state with military conscription say) when the first daughter of a family comes of age she adopts an infant daughter and a son whose birth family has lost several members and is struggling to manage, ensuring the family persists while subverting the "blood is thicker than water" idea since the head of the family is usually NOT a blood relative to most of the family.

Maybe the children born in a clan are primarily raised communally by designated guardians leaving biological parents with no obligations of care. They are instead expected to use their youth to pursue the interests of the clan and leave the rearing of children to the older and wiser members who can't be running around as much anymore. Sometimes the breaking of these norms can be coding for "primitive" but there's no reason that an aristocratic House wouldn't follow one of these modes of child-rearing. One consequence would be the reduction in importance of a patrilineal or matrilineal inheritance. The head of the House isn't determined by inheritance but by full members of the House (adults, maybe you need to be a knight to have a say, maybe marrying in doesn't count) voting on the next leader to determine who is the best representative of what their family is, stressing nurture over nature.

EDIT: Another concern I find people have is how analytical their approach is. There are people out there who want their worldbuilding notes to be a grand sweeping narrative from the creation of the universe to the building of the local apothecary's. There is nothing wrong with breaking down your notes into bullet points if you want. Personally, I'm somewhere in the middle. I have these sections that help me keep different aspects organized but under a given heading I'd write a paragraph rather than a bullet point list. For me, I find that having a little bit of natural language helps get the feel right in my head more than a list of descriptors. That said, if the list of descriptors works for you, use it. Don't let yourself get bogged down. If you find yourself stuck, try switching it up. Use bullet points and then expand these into paragraphs or just start writing whatever nonsense pops into your head and then go back to isolate the useful bits and throw the rest out.

[DrowPiratRobrts]

You haven't provided us with the events that led to this coming up as a problem, so maybe you were just thinking about it or maybe you or your players got upset one night. I don't know. But either way, if you or your players are applying negative stereotypes of real races/cultures to the fictional races/cultures in-game, there's an underlying problem. Trying to avoid this by creating the "perfect setting" will only put a band-aid over the issue for a short time imo. It could easily come up again.

SO, I don't have a ton to offer by way of world-building or avoiding tropes, but I hope that's helpful to reflect on and consider the roots of the problem. Is this something that needs to be addressed at the table, or is this actually just a problem that you've fabricated because of the "what if" scenarios that go through all of our heads when running a game? I had a similar moment when planning a campaign where I wondered if I should allow a married couple to play married PCs, and I was glad to see that nobody had any of the horror stories I expected. Quite the opposite, everyone encouraged me to allow it and gave good advice/fun stories of their games where this had happened.

[QuickLyRaiNbow]

homer fading into the bushes dot gif

At the risk of crossing the real-world politics rule, I'd like to commend this article (https://www.commentarymagazine.com/articles/the-secret-jews-of-the-hobbit/)from Commentary Magazine. The Secret Jews of The Hobbit, by Rabbi Meir Soloveichik:


. . .

In a reflection on Tolkein and the Jews, to which this essay is indebted, Rabbi Jeffrey Saks notes that the dwarves’ “sorrowful song of longing to return to their homeland might have been lifted from a Middle Earth Kinnot Tisha B’Av”—a reference to the lamentations read by Jews when they mourn the destruction of Jerusalem. . . . To someone like me, who grew up loving The Hobbit, the discovery that Tolkien had based his dwarves on Jews was startling—and the cause of some concern. In reading the book to my son, after learning of its connection to the Jews, the following passage stood out disturbingly: (short quotation on the nature of dwarves) Unsettling as the passage is, we would be wrong to use it to indict Tolkien for anti-Semitism. An excerpt from his professional correspondence offers a very different sense of the man’s sympathies. . . . So it seems Tolkien shaped the dwarves’ traits and stories to reflect both his own experiences with Jews and their relation to events in the world more generally. Although in The Hobbit he may have indulged in the occasional ugly stereotype, in composing The Lord of the Rings he repented even of this. Thus, the books, the dwarves, and the fictional saga that forever changed the world of literature should inspire not anger but wonder. We should marvel at the fact that an essentially Jewish tale spurred the very birth of modern fantasy, owing to an author who saw in the history of the Jewish people an incredible story. It is a reminder that Jews are indeed part of a wondrous tale, one that we are living today.