What's the deal with hexblades?

[JoeJ]

I'm not really clear on what's going on. They make a pact with a magic weapon, but they don't actually wield that weapon. Fiends, fey, great old ones, undead lords, and angels are all well established in fantasy, so I have no problem figuring out how to work them into my world. But weapons that grant magic powers to people who don't use them? I'm drawing a blank on why that would be happening, how the weapon chooses who to empower, and what it would want from the warlock in return.

[Millstone85]

The Hexblade is not a weapon, but a weaponsmith.

Unlike other patrons, which are categories of entities, the Hexblade is a single specific entity.

The Hexblade is linked to the Shadowfell, and suspected to be none other than the Raven Queen.

[JoeJ]

The Hexblade is not a weapon, but a weaponsmith.

Unlike other patrons, which are categories of entities, the Hexblade is a single specific entity.

The Hexblade is linked to the Shadowfell, and suspected to be none other than the Raven Queen.

Is this from a book or something? (I have read almost no fiction set in the FR, if that's where it's from.) Also the Raven Queen is never really explained, but I take it she's supposed to be some sort of fey queen?

[JakOfAllTirades]

In Xanathar's Guide to Everything, WTOC changed up the background material for the Hexblade. The Hexblade Patron is now "a mysterious entity from the Shadowfell -- a force that manifests in sentient weapons carved from the stuff of shadow." So it's not the weapon itself you're making a pact with; it's the entity or force which creates those weapons.

Too vague for my tastes, but there you go.

[Millstone85]

Is this from a book or something?Yes, it is from Xanathar's Guide to Everything (http://dnd.wizards.com/products/tabletop-games/rpg-products/xanathars-guide-everything), which introduces the finalized versions of several new subclasses. The fluff has changed a bit from the UA version.


Also the Raven Queen is never really explained, but I take it she's supposed to be some sort of fey queen?She is an elven queen who tried to ascend to godhood during the early conflict between Corellon and Lolth, but was betrayed by a group of wizards. The botched ritual turned her into an half-crazed entity of memories bound to the Shadowfell, while her subjects became the Shadar-kai.

That new lore is from Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes (http://dnd.wizards.com/products/tabletop-games/rpg-products/mordenkainens-tome-foes).

5e books, gotta buy 'em all.

[JoeJ]

Yes, it is from Xanathar's Guide to Everything (http://dnd.wizards.com/products/tabletop-games/rpg-products/xanathars-guide-everything), which introduces the finalized versions of several new subclasses. The fluff has changed a bit from the UA version.

Yeah that passage in XGtE is what has me wondering what's going on. It just seems to come out of left field, with no real explanation of what this force is or what it wants. Just the mention of a sword named Blackrazor, which looks like a reference to something written someplace else.


She is an elven queen who tried to ascend to godhood during the early conflict between Corellon and Lolth, but was betrayed by a group of wizards. The botched ritual turned her into an half-crazed entity of memories bound to the Shadowfell, while her subjects became the Shadar-kai.

That new lore is from Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes (http://dnd.wizards.com/products/tabletop-games/rpg-products/mordenkainens-tome-foes).

5e books, gotta buy 'em all.

I haven't finished reading MToF yet, so I'll hold off any further questions about her until I do.

[Millstone85]

Yeah that passage in XGtE is what has me wondering what's going on. It just seems to come out of left field, with no real explanation of what this force is or what it wants. Just the mention of a sword named Blackrazor, which looks like a reference to something written someplace else.Blackrazor is actually described as a magic item in the DMG. It is a sentient chaotic neutral sword that devours souls (which should make it evil, but whatever).

Anyway, yes, the fluff of the Hexblade is pretty terrible. I really don't like how it is a specific character. My advice: go with a "deal with the grim reaper" kind of thing, with the Shadowfell having several such entities. Alternatively, any of the PHB patrons could sometimes approach a warlock from a more martial angle. The latter was how 4e did it.

[mephnick]

They tried to fix bladelock, but instead of fixing bladelock by adding a single armour proficiency, they tried to make it obsolete (because that's how the 5e development team fixes things) and instead made a patron pact that is better than everything else for everything else....ohhh..you meant fluff-wise.

[Tanarii]

They tried to fix bladelock, but instead of fixing bladelock by adding a single armour proficiency, they tried to make it obsolete (because that's how the 5e development team fixes things) and instead made a patron pact that is better than everything else for everything else....ohhh..you meant fluff-wise.
Spot on summary :smallamused:

[solidork]

In our game we had a hexblade who was refluffed as serving a being that forges weapons for Tempus and the eternal battles that take place on Warrior's Rest. It was for a temporary character in an arc that focused on my War Cleric of Tempus.

[Pex]

All Patrons are fluff. While verisimilitude demands similarity you don't need to go by the book. You can use the Fiend Patron but your Pact is with a Phoenix. Your Great Old One Patron is a forgotten deity trying to make a comeback. Fey Pact is with a demi-god of Nature. For a Hexblade you can have a Pact with the Sun god being Shadow's Light.

[ad_hoc]

I'm not really clear on what's going on. They make a pact with a magic weapon, but they don't actually wield that weapon. Fiends, fey, great old ones, undead lords, and angels are all well established in fantasy, so I have no problem figuring out how to work them into my world. But weapons that grant magic powers to people who don't use them? I'm drawing a blank on why that would be happening, how the weapon chooses who to empower, and what it would want from the warlock in return.

You're not wrong. Hexblade makes no sense.

[RSP]

I like the Seinfeld-esque tone in the subject line and now I can’t help hearing this as part of his routine...

[Imriel]

So I've just started playing one and this is how me and my DM did it: my character was about to be sacrificed by evil cultists, when a relic warhammer in the temple moved on its own and saved her life. She made a Pact with the weapon, but the fun part is that she has very low intelligence (10, and she's a swamp Goblin) so neither her nor me know what he entity speaking through the weapon actually is. She just call it booyagh (magic i. Goblinese) and thinks owe it her life.

I guess as we proceed I'll find out what and who it is, but I think we got a pretty cool bg and flavor for a hexblade and her pact! 😍

[mephnick]

I like the Seinfeld-esque tone in the subject line and now I can’t help hearing this as part of his routine...

What's the deal with Hexblades? It isn't neccessarily a blade...and it isn't really a Hex! No blade, no Hex! Why Hexblade?

[Xetheral]

I just fluff it as an enigmatic sentient weapon wielded by the Warlock. It takes times (i.e. class levels) to learn to unlock its power.

[Naanomi]

What's the deal with Hexblades? It isn't neccessarily a blade...and it isn't really a Hex! No blade, no Hex! Why Hexblade?
Callback to the martial caster 3.X class, that’s about it. People were already using the term informally for Pact of the Blade focused warlocks

It took a lot of the ‘oomph’ out of the Undying Patron concept to make Hexblades tied to death (making specters and the like)... not many characters I would make as Undying Patron that I wouldn’t be inclined to make as Hexblades now instead

[RSP]

What's the deal with Hexblades? It isn't neccessarily a blade...and it isn't really a Hex! No blade, no Hex! Why Hexblade?

I’d like this included the next time he does a stand up performance...

[Segev]

One of the big problems with the Hexblade is that it's both kind-of all over the place in its abilities, and its best abilities overlap with other Warlock features and options. The curse fills the same thematic space as hex and even bane (as granted by an Invocation). The specter-creation is...weird.

The armor and weapon proficiencies makes sense. If we look back at the origin of the name, in 3e, it was a rather weak "arcane paladin" class, with more "eeheeheeheevil" overtones. Making the Hexblade Patron the "Spellsinger" choice for Warlocks (i.e. what Eldritch Knight is to Fighter, but backwards) would make a certain amount of sense.

The smite feature fits well, too.

Fluff-wise, the Hexblade Patron should probably be genericized to be any of the other valid Patrons, but chosen as their warrior-champion. The Hexblade Warlock isn't so much taking the Hexblade as the Patron, but has become the weapon forged by the Patron - he is his own "hexblade."

Replace Hexblade's Curse with Cursed Armor. This allows the Hexblade to add 2 to his armor class while wearing armor or carrying a shield (including mage armor), and the armor (and/or shield) becomes twisted into an appearance that suits his Patron. This armor also gives advantage on rolls to intimidate.

The specter thing is weird. In keeping with the "warrior" theme, give the Hexblade the 6th level power of "Hexsteed." This power lets them know both find steed and phantom steed as Warlock spells.

Armor of Hexes works mostly the same, save you can use it on anybody who attacks you rather than just the person cursed, and it only applies if you've got Cursed Armor active. (Though, let's be honest, you almost always will if this would matter.)

With no Hexblade's Curse, Master of Hexes is pretty useless. So replace it with an upgrade to the level 6 ability: Greater Hexsteed. This adds find greater steed to the Hexblade as a Warlock Spell he knows, and gives phantom steeds he conjures a fly speed equal to their ground speed.

[Mith]

One of the big problems with the Hexblade is that it's both kind-of all over the place in its abilities, and its best abilities overlap with other Warlock features and options. The curse fills the same thematic space as hex and even bane (as granted by an Invocation). The specter-creation is...weird.

The armor and weapon proficiencies makes sense. If we look back at the origin of the name, in 3e, it was a rather weak "arcane paladin" class, with more "eeheeheeheevil" overtones. Making the Hexblade Patron the "Spellsinger" choice for Warlocks (i.e. what Eldritch Knight is to Fighter, but backwards) would make a certain amount of sense.

The smite feature fits well, too.

Fluff-wise, the Hexblade Patron should probably be genericized to be any of the other valid Patrons, but chosen as their warrior-champion. The Hexblade Warlock isn't so much taking the Hexblade as the Patron, but has become the weapon forged by the Patron - he is his own "hexblade."

Replace Hexblade's Curse with Cursed Armor. This allows the Hexblade to add 2 to his armor class while wearing armor or carrying a shield (including mage armor), and the armor (and/or shield) becomes twisted into an appearance that suits his Patron. This armor also gives advantage on rolls to intimidate.

The specter thing is weird. In keeping with the "warrior" theme, give the Hexblade the 6th level power of "Hexsteed." This power lets them know both find steed and phantom steed as Warlock spells.

Armor of Hexes works mostly the same, save you can use it on anybody who attacks you rather than just the person cursed, and it only applies if you've got Cursed Armor active. (Though, let's be honest, you almost always will if this would matter.)

With no Hexblade's Curse, Master of Hexes is pretty useless. So replace it with an upgrade to the level 6 ability: Greater Hexsteed. This adds find greater steed to the Hexblade as a Warlock Spell he knows, and gives phantom steeds he conjures a fly speed equal to their ground speed.

Stealing this. I would take the fluff further and say that Hexblades that die become powerful Outsidet weapons, with the highest level Hexblade becoming a powerful foot soldier in their Patron's faction.

[ATHATH]

replace hexblade's curse with cursed armor. This allows the hexblade to add 2 to his armor class while wearing armor or carrying a shield (including mage armor), and the armor (and/or shield) becomes twisted into an appearance that suits his patron. This armor also gives advantage on rolls to intimidate.
Won't that mess with bounded accuracy?

[Millstone85]

I wish the warlock had been more balanced in its double-subclass design.

The PHB could have given us three patrons (Archfey, Fiend, GOO) and three proper pacts (Pact of the Binder, Pact of the Hexblade, Pact of the Occultist), each with two class features.

[Tanarii]

Instead of hexblade, they probably should have bjust added an armor alternative to the Pact of the Blade Boon. Pact of the Armor Boon, Magically summoned armor you're proficient in, probably starting with the lowest kind (choice of Scale or Chain) and getting more powerful versions as you gain levels.

Then from there you can add some invocations on top.

[RSP]

Instead of hexblade, they probably should have bjust added an armor alternative to the Pact of the Blade Boon. Pact of the Armor Boon, Magically summoned armor you're proficient in, probably starting with the lowest kind (choice of Scale or Chain) and getting more powerful versions as you gain levels.

Then from there you can add some invocations on top.

Or added a prerequisite Blade Pact Invocation in XGtE that grants Med armor and shield proficiency; would have greatly helped Blade pacts overall without altering the balance much. Granted it would have been yet another Blade invocation tax, but it would have been the easiest fix.

[Tanarii]

Or added a prerequisite Blade Pact Invocation in XGtE that grants Med armor and shield proficiency; would have greatly helped Blade pacts overall without altering the balance much. Granted it would have been yet another Blade invocation tax, but it would have been the easiest fix.Thatd probably work if it had a level requirement. Or just a buffed up version of the Mage Armor invocation, to upgrade from. Mage Armor that adds an additional +1 AC (ie a magical Breastplate), plus Shield prof. That's a bit weaker because you can't wear magic armor.

[HappyDaze]

In my game, I ruled it this way:

The intelligence in intelligent weapons has to come from somewhere. The pact a warlock with the hexblade patron makes is an agreement that upon (final) death, the warlock's essence/spirit/soul/cream filling goes into a weapon made by the patron. In effect, the experiences of the warlock are refinements to the eventual blade the hexblade patron is forging. What the patron intends to do with these magical intelligent blades is another (probably unpleasant) mystery.

[JoeJ]

I don't like the idea of the same entity being two different kinds of warlock patron, but something that's collecting souls to use as weapons and/or soldiers sounds interesting. Such a patron would probably not require much at all from the warlock while they're alive, but the downside would be that once they die their soul is not free, so they couldn't be raised or resurrected.

That kind of overlaps with the role I see for the undying, but there's no reason I have to necessarily allow both: I can just let the first player who asks to play either an undying or a hexblade warlock choose which kind exists. Or if nobody wants to play one, whichever I first decide to bring in as an NPC.

[GaelofDarkness]

Callback to the martial caster 3.X class, that’s about it. People were already using the term informally for Pact of the Blade focused warlocks

This is the reason for the somewhat confusing name.

I like to think of the patron as more a Dark Artificer. They're a being who can create objects out of the stuff of shadow itself. You could call them the "Dark Lord" patron I guess, but the specific fluff is that the artifacts they create have a - likely malevolent - sentience to them. This needn't be a sword. I've heard a character concept where the patron made a deck of cards that gradually turns the wielder into a gambling addict (and can be used as darts in a pinch - Gambit style). The gambler's immense debt is what made them vulnerable to making a pact with the Hexblade patron. Another concept had the artifacts as Lovecraftian tomes filled with dangerous secrets that can only be read with their permission, which the books are sworn to keep from falling into the wrong hands (think of the secrets as the equivalent of nuclear launch codes that could drive a person mad upon reading). The books were so paranoid about keeping their secrets safe they were each manipulating their various wielders over time into destroying the other books, demanded any diviners that got too close be executed and had kept themselves hidden from the one being who could force them to reveal their secrets - their creator. The patron had enlisted a warlock to recover these "mischievous" toys before they lead to the annihilation of all the worlds' people because the patron didn't want to deal with the gods' annoyance at losing so many worshipers - though the warlock initially just thought they were tomes of magic or something.

Honestly the Hexblade patron strikes me as a Sauron-type (the rings of power weren't made of shadow, but otherwise it's not a bad fit). I don't know why it's been pitched in the way that it has been, unless they just really wanted to drive home the connection to Blackrazor or just decided that neither it nor the Raven Queen patron it appeared alongside in Unearthed Arcana worked well enough alone - so they went with fusing them together to make a viable product despite the ill-fitting fluff.

[Segev]

Won't that mess with bounded accuracy?

Possibly. But probably not by too much. If so, something else could be done. Maybe they suffer no disadvantage to stealth or something in heavy armor. It really just amounts to +2 to their AC, which probably isn't overkill, but...who knows? Maybe it instead enchants their armor to be +2. Though that would make actual magical armor less impressive. Either it isn't as good, or it overwrites their class feature.

[Kaliayev]

Blackrazor is actually described as a magic item in the DMG. It is a sentient chaotic neutral sword that devours souls (which should make it evil, but whatever).

When you take everything together, there's a bit of an implication that Blackrazor's souls end up in RQ's fortress of memories. Of course, she is designed to be mysterious, so who knows how all these things ultimately connect in the multiverse?


I like the Seinfeld-esque tone in the subject line and now I can’t help hearing this as part of his routine...

Ditto. Someone's gotta convince TPTB to put Perkins or Welch in a car with Seinfeld.

[Wryte]

I was playing an archfey bladelock when the Hexblade UA came out, and my DM suggested that I switch to it while keeping the same patron and backstory I was already running with. That's basically how I'd run Hexblades at my table if one came along: your patron is actually one of the other patrons (fiend, archfey, etc.), your pact just took a more martial bent than others, with all the rest of the features refluffed accordingly.

If I were to really sit down and take some time on it, I'd probably just roll the crucial parts of Hexblade into Blade Pact and move the rest to invocations.

[Millstone85]

When you take everything together, there's a bit of an implication that Blackrazor's souls end up in RQ's fortress of memories. Of course, she is designed to be mysterious, so who knows how all these things ultimately connect in the multiverse?That may not be a better fate. MToF has a rather chilling take on the "Raven" Queen.
Some wizards and other scholars have speculated that the Raven Queen is simply insane, that there is no method to her madness other than a nervous pecking apart of a psyche with no more motive than a curious child pulling the legs off an ant. Others have speculated that the Raven Queen needs the gravity of emotions to hold her eternally decaying identity together.

Then again, this is followed by an alternative interpretation.
But a few sages have postulated that the Raven Queen's purpose is of greater importance, that she serves as a filter of sorts, cleansing souls that cling to fear and pain, forcing them to confront their unfinished business so that they are freed of their mortal baggage and can rise to explore higher planes of existence.

I rather like the idea of a purgatorial Shadowfell.