Limits of diguise self

[Doorhandle]

So I have an issue with the game i'm currently running.
I'm becoming frustrated with a player who is using disguise self to too good of an effect, and I want methods of counteracting it that are less ham-handed than my previous methods1.

At the same time, the resident BBEG is using disguise self extensively, and I want to put some flaws in this disguise so the players can counteract it.

So are there any simple ways to foil/detect this spell, typical non-magical ones?

1. Namely certain buildings in the main city cast dispel magic on entrance.

[leogobsin]

So depending on how strict you want to be, more or less any physical contact would reveal it. If the disguise has different clothing touching them you'd likely be able to feel that the texture is wrong, or your hand would pass through certain parts of the illusion. Also don't forget that RAW anyone can, at any time, use their action to make an Investigation check vs the casters spell save DC to see through the illusion.

[Crgaston]

Leogobsin is right. Also consider that it doesn’t change the way you smell or the sound of your voice, so a perception check might reveal something is familiar about the individual if they’ve encountered the character before.

[sophontteks]

How is the player using disguise self to such effect? On its own it is a pretty weak spell. Is he combining it with other effects, abilities, feats, racial traits? If so, what are they? How much has he invested into this strategy?

[Quoxis]

Leogobsin is right. Also consider that it doesn’t change the way you smell or the sound of your voice, so a perception check might reveal something is familiar about the individual if they’ve encountered the character before.

The smell thing in particular: Many animals have „keen smell“, giving them advantage on smell related checks, with DM approval that’s a +5 to passive perception, which would allow for a familiar or appropriate pet to... well, smell through the illusion.

[JackPhoenix]

Hit them with a bag of flour or something. The disguise is just an illusion, the flour won't stick to the image, thus revealing things are not as they seem. Works with any kind of soiling... Prestidigitation option, spilled wine, road mud, rain... if you want to avoid problems resulting from pouring flour on people.

Doesn't work against things that actually make physical changes... changelings, Alter Self, etc.

[Lunali]

My personal favorite, rain. Unless they planned for it, a person using disguise self will appear to be dry despite the rain and will drip water from dry clothes after they get inside.

That said, when I use disguise self, I typically combine it with a disguise kit if height changes are not essential. The spell changing the appearance of the body while the clothes and hair are changed with the disguise kit. This makes it extremely difficult to detect unless there's cause for a thorough examination.

[Tanarii]

The limits are the same as many other illusions: physical interaction or an Investigation check.

It's worth noting in the case of Disguise Self, it specifically calls out the physical interaction as physical "inspection". Pat downs would desfinitely reveal it. But from the expanded description of why physical inspections work, there's no reason hitting someone with a bag of flour or getting rained on shouldn't work. Shooting an arrow at them or hitting them with a melee weapon might well not work though. Definitely a place for a DM ruling.

Investigation checks are, as usual, going to depend on who they're interacting with. That should be automatic for (good) guards for example, even if they can't do pat downs. It's their entire job.

[Exocist]

Are the people in your campaign aware of Disguise/Alter Self and the implications of what someone being any one at any time could mean? If so, consider the following:

- Code words for anything - High security individuals might have particular code words that they need to use in order to have any order passed. Players disguising as one of these individuals might be able to get away with minor things, but anything major might involve them needing to know said code word otherwise they will be found out to be an imposter.
- Truesight sensors at important locations - Your run of the mill goods store might not have something that prevents people from disguising as someone else to rob it, but that high tier magic item shop or BBEG's lair certainly is going to have something like that.
- People develop particular ways of speaking, mannerisms, innuendos & slang that can't be replicated without studying them intently. You might look like them, but you sure don't sound like them.

There are plenty of ways around this, but the easiest one is probably just to sit your players down and tell them what you will and won't allow with Disguise Self. If they then try to do something that you said you wouldn't allow, you can throw the dispel magic/truesight at them. If they complain... well, you did warn them.

[Segev]

I am curious how he's using it to be so effective that it's problematic. What's he doing with it?

[Zippdementia]

If you let us know exactly what the problem is that’s making it OP, we can offer better advice. The only things I can think of is that maybe he’s using it to sneak around everywhere and avoiding combat, in which case there are lots of ways to mitigate it, from secret passwords he’d have to know to monsters that don’t differentiate friend from foe but all the bad guys know not to go down that hallway. If he’s fooling your big-bads then make your big-bads more paranoid. Have them use glasses of truesight on everyone who comes into their presence.

[Doorhandle]

How is the player using disguise self to such effect? On its own it is a pretty weak spell. Is he combining it with other effects, abilities, feats, racial traits? If so, what are they? How much has he invested into this strategy?

So far he's only combining it with the actor feat and good social skills...but he's also playing a warlock, which means he can disguise self 24/7.
Suffice to say he'll use it a lot.



If you let us know exactly what the problem is that’s making it OP, we can offer better advice

Well, he used to to briefly usurp control of the guard tower...even though it was for a good cause, I don't want it escalating from there.
Plus, it's also for the player's benefit: as I mention the BBEG is also using disguise self extensibly, so I want to give hints.


Hit them with a bag of flour or something.

The limits are the same as many other illusions: physical interaction or an Investigation check.

Code words for anything -

People develop particular ways of speaking, mannerisms, innuendos & slang that can't be replicated without studying them intently. You might look like them, but you sure don't sound like them.

The smell thing in particular: Many animals have „keen smell“, giving them advantage on smell related checks, with DM approval that’s a +5 to passive perception, which would allow for a familiar or appropriate pet to... well, smell through the illusion.

If the disguise has different clothing touching them you'd likely be able to feel that the texture is wrong, or your hand would pass through certain parts of the illusion.

My personal favorite, rain. Unless they planned for it, a person using disguise self will appear to be dry despite the rain and will drip water from dry clothes after they get inside.

All excellent advice. Thank you!

[Tanarii]

Is he disguising himself as specific other people? That should definitely be a check of some kind to pull off, an Int check for memory recall of what the person looked like, DC based on time elapsed. If the person you're trying to imitate is standing right there probably wouldn't need a check.

[Doorhandle]

Is he disguising himself as specific other people? That should definitely be a check of some kind to pull off, an Int check for memory recall of what the person looked like, DC based on time elapsed. If the person you're trying to imitate is standing right there probably wouldn't need a check.

He did, but to be fair he'd talked to him for the required amount of time beforehand (1 minute) and the guy's look was pretty distinctive...i'll keep it in mind for future reference though.

[Zippdementia]

I guess I don’t see the problem. If your player wants to be a character who uses disguise self all the time, then why stop him? I highly doubt it will actually be OPed for your campaign, there is only so much a player can do with disguise self and honestly the limitations of its benefits in any given situation is already up to the DM’s imagination. It’s not like a charm person spell, where it tells you the parameters of how much it fools people and for how long.

Sounds like your player has a good concept in mind for how he wants to play this game and tackle its obstacles. I would highly advise you NOT to take that away from him and NOT to look for ways to shut him down.

[sophontteks]

You shouldn't be balancing the campaign against this at all. He devoted a feat and an invocation into it, that's a pretty heavy investment, and he's properly using social checks to make it all work.

This is a battle of wits between you and the player. Bad checks can give bad info, bad info could give him away. If someone is suspicious, they roll investigation to see the disguise. Success or failure is largely in the player's hands. Your job is just to watch for these mistakes and make sure that the NPCs react to them appropriately. Social gods are a real handful. They will flip encounters on their head, but they tend to hang themselves if you give them enough rope.

[Tanarii]

He did, but to be fair he'd talked to him for the required amount of time beforehand (1 minute) and the guy's look was pretty distinctive...i'll keep it in mind for future reference though.
Ah, I forgot he had the actor feat.

That's probably worth advantage on any Intelligence checks to recall precisely what someone looks like accurately enough to create a convincing disguise of them. Mundane or Magical.

There's no set DC for recalling things, so you'll have to decide for yourself what's reasonable for no check needed / automatic success, average difficulty (10-15), not possible, etc. I generally require checks for precise visual recall starting as soon as things are out of sight, because visual memory sucks. But I've had players ask wtf, because almost everyone believes their visual memory doesn't suck, so you might not want to go that far. :smallamused:

Also keep in mind the Keen Intellect lets a PC with it perfectly recall anything they've seen in the last month, no check needed.

[Unoriginal]

Personally I don't see the problem. You could let the BBEG and the Warlock do their disguise thing, that sounds pretty fun.

I don't think that something that can be countered by a basic body is OP.

Is the player always demanding attention or something?