Tactical teleportation, large creatures, and damage caused by falling

[J-H]

Per the rules (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/environment.htm#falling), a 10,000# object falling even a short distance causes 50d6 damage.
In theory, Dimension Shuffle, flight, and a party member who weighs 10,000# (a Huge giant) can be used for massive damage. I don't think we want to go there. A Ref DC 15 save may help (treating it as a siege weapon attack), but it's still pretty over the top... and spammable by any caster with access to Huge elementals.

Is this addressed anywhere in a splatbook?

[Shalist]

2e had this to say about certain 100+ ton murderlizards:


Falling Damage
Dragons are much heavier than humans, and thus hit the ground considerably harder...sometimes. Because they have wings which, even if unusable for flight, make great brakes their terminal velocity is lower than that for a human-sized figure. Dragons, therefore, suffer 2d6 points of damage for every 10 feet fallen (not 1d6 as for man-sized creatures), to a maximum of 20d6. Any creature hit by a falling dragon suffers a similar amount of damage (successful saving throw vs. staves for half damage).

While their terminal velocity is just 125'/second (2e Drc pg 52, due to massive wings providing drag), compared to ~175'/second (or 200'/ for DnD rounding) for humans, they're still pretty massive. And while their was a lot of HP inflation between editions (i.e. the tarrasque and ancient dragons used to have like 150 HP, now they're 4x-6x that), many damage sources have stayed the same.

So, grain of salt and all, but it's something *shrug*.

edit: If it dies before hitting the ground, would it be a 100+ ton object instead, with all the extra d6s that'd entail? Dunno :smallwink:

edit 2: marginally related:


If the spell is cast on a falling item the object does half normal damage based on its weight, with no bonus for the height of the drop.

Object / creature questions aside, it might take the risk out of roleplaying Mario in a DnD game.

[Bronk]

.
In theory, Dimension Shuffle, flight, and a party member who weighs 10,000# (a Huge giant) can be used for massive damage. I don't think we want to go there.


The rules for dropping objects on targets are found in Heroes of Battle page 68. You need to make an attack roll vs AC5 to hit the square you're aiming at, then the target in the square can avoid the damage with a DC15 Reflex Save.

Dimension Shuffle won't let you place anyone unsupported in the air.

However, the main thing for this particular problem is that falling object damage doesn't work for falling creatures, because they aren't objects.

[J-H]

Dimension Shuffle won't let you place anyone unsupported in the air.
This solves the problem neatly, if you can't teleport anyone to midair (unless the teleportee can fly). Where's that rule from?

[Goaty14]

or, y'know, you could get the bright idea that creatures aren't objects, and thus not apply to falling objects rule to creatures.

[J-H]

Then what rules would you suggest applying instead? Equal damage to the player character and the target?

[Falontani]

Then what rules would you suggest applying instead? Equal damage to the player character and the target?

that is what I've always done personally

[sleepyphoenixx]

This solves the problem neatly, if you can't teleport anyone to midair (unless the teleportee can fly). Where's that rule from?

It's in the rules for the Conjuration school. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#conjuration)

A creature or object brought into being or transported to your location by a conjuration spell cannot appear inside another creature or object, nor can it appear floating in an empty space. It must arrive in an open location on a surface capable of supporting it.

[J-H]

Thank you!

[Asmotherion]

There is also a Rule, capping said Damage at 20d6.

That does not mean you can't have more damage sources than one, adding each other together, and creating some sort of Death-Pinball.


Example: Get something Glued to a Giant Stone, and then make it fall a certain distance into the bottom of a Volcano. 40d6 (20 from the Fall and 20 from the Lava). On the entrance of the Crater, add a Prismatic Wall, Which will force more Saves, and more Damage on the thing you're trying to Anihilate, making the total damage look like 40d6+100 and Force multiple Saves for other Effects.

This is only a simple yet creative example of what you can make by combining effects together. It is by no means the cap of what you can do.

[Bronk]

Then what rules would you suggest applying instead? Equal damage to the player character and the target?

If I was going to allow something like this, I'd make the one falling take a special feat, then have them make an attack roll on the way down, exactly like the 'falling blocks' traps.


It's in the rules for the Conjuration school. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#conjuration)

In this case, it's also right in the spell description, if that's easier for the player.