Persist Haste Swiftblade Gish

[cartejos]

The only persist-able haste spell that I know of is Swift Haste, and I've talked with the DM and they say that because it's "Functions like haste" it works with the swiftblade abilities.

So I'm brainstorming this as I'm writing, and haven't developed my full thoughts on the build as of now, I am going to be looking through books and such as I write this post, so if my attitude changes towards certain things, it is because I had been drawn away by other options.

I have a few objectives for the build as of now. 1. Get 9 Levels of Swiftblade. 2. End up with >=16 BAB. 3. End with 9th level spells.
I know it might be lofty, underpowered, or impossible... but, I thought it might be cool.

Extra Spell has been ruled to not work from Any spell list, I believe the DM has ruled it that Arcane casters can get from Arcane spell lists and Divine casters gets from Divine spell lists.

So the only two ways I know of to add Swift Hast (which is a divine spell) to an arcane spell list is Wyrm Wizard and Recaster. They both have similarly easy prerequisites, but Recaster I think is more powerful. They both lose a caster level, Wyrm Wizard at 2, and Recaster at 1.

So perhaps a changeling base character. Wizard as the base class, take it up to 5 and prc into Recaster for 2 levels. It gets you the BAB you need for Swiftblade and the Swift Haste spell on your list. After 9 levels of Swiftblade something like Abjurant Champion for the last 4 levels.
This ends up with 16 BAB and CL 16. It loses just one too many caster levels. And if it isn't possible to get 9th level spells, perhaps it would be better to drop one abjurant champion level for the last level in swiftblade and be able to produce a time stop like effect.

I am unsure about how to mitigate the lost caster level. It would have to do with finding a full casting prestige class that added a Divine Ranger Spell that's not on any cleric domain to your Wizard spell list.

Edit: Kobold Sorcerer 6/Swiftblade 9/Abjurant Champion 5 using Greater Rite of Passage and a Ring of Theurgy/Drake Helm trick

[Deophaun]

So the only two ways I know of to add Swift Hast (which is a divine spell) to an arcane spell list is Wyrm Wizard and Recaster.
Get swift haste cast into a Ring of Theurgy. Ring of Theurgy now lets you cast swift haste as an arcane spell. Use that casting to attune a dragonshard to swift haste and insert it into a Drake Helm (Explorer's Handbook). Enjoy having swift haste as a spell known on your (spontaneous) arcane caster.

[DarkSoul]

Researching custom spells isn't allowed? It's in the books as an option. Seems like the simplest solution is to just research an arcane version. It's not like you're trying for cure or resurrection spells.

[sleepyphoenixx]

How exactly do you plan to persist Swift Haste once you can cast it? I'm not seeing it and your build doesn't really have the room to add it.
Even if it did there are better spells to persist since you get Haste quickened for free by your class features anyway, so there isn't much point. Just buy a few 3rd level Pearls of Power or a Ring of Wizardry 3 if you find yourself running out or specialize in Transmutation.

The general cooky cutter Swiftblade build is (elf) Wizard 6/Swiftblade 9/Abjurant Champion 5, which fulfills your stated build objectives neatly, aside from Swift Haste that is. Sorcerer 6 works too.

You could go Wizard 4/Master Specialist (Transmuter) 2/SB 9/AC 5 - a very generous reading of Expanded Spellbook might even get you Swift Haste since it only specifies that it has to be the right school, not a wizard spell, but it's iffy. You'd still have no way to persist it though.
Otherwise you're just spending a feat on SF:Transmutation for a free SF:Spellcraft and +2 to will saves.

The other alternative is putting some points in UMD and buying a wand of Swift Haste and a Minor Schema of Metamagic Item.


Get swift haste cast into a Ring of Theurgy. Ring of Theurgy now lets you cast swift haste as an arcane spell. Use that casting to attune a dragonshard to swift haste and insert it into a Drake Helm (Explorer's Handbook). Enjoy having swift haste as a spell known on your (spontaneous) arcane caster.

A Drake Helm is a little too expensive to make it a prerequisite for a cornerstone of your build, isn't it? Even before the cost for the ring.

[Deophaun]

A Drake Helm is a little too expensive to make it a prerequisite for a cornerstone of your build, isn't it? Even before the cost for the ring.
I was responding to the statement that the only way known to get a divine spell on an arcane list was via Wyrm Wizard or Recaster. Whether these are too expensive is up to the user. (And they might not be, considering casters don't need equipment as a general rule).

[cartejos]

Get swift haste cast into a Ring of Theurgy. Ring of Theurgy now lets you cast swift haste as an arcane spell. Use that casting to attune a dragonshard to swift haste and insert it into a Drake Helm (Explorer's Handbook). Enjoy having swift haste as a spell known on your (spontaneous) arcane caster.

So a Sorcerer could do that trick and not lose the 1 Caster Level from Wyrm Wizard. But they still lose 3 from Swiftblade and lose their 9th level spells. I guess since you no longer need to be a changeling you could be a kobold and use the greater rite of passage. You could slap some other cheese on a kobold to, but this is just the rite working as intended.

[ExLibrisMortis]

Ocular Spell (Lords of Madness p. 181) lets you cast "ray spells and spells with a target other than personal" as a ray with a range of 60'. Any spell modified as such qualifies for Persistent Spell. Taking Ocular Spell increases the level of the spell slot required by two, but that's probably okay for haste, and perhaps one or two other critical buff spells.

To actually apply Persistent Spell, you'll probably need a level in Spelldancer. If possible, try squeezing it in before entering Swiftblade, replacing sorcerer 6.

[Troacctid]

With some investment in Use Magic Device, you can do it with a Minor Schema of Metamagic Item. Combine with the Wand Bonding or Channel Charge feat or a Minor Schema of Concurrent Infusions and limited charges won't be an issue.

[cartejos]

With some investment in Use Magic Device, you can do it with a Minor Schema of Metamagic Item. Combine with the Wand Bonding or Channel Charge feat or a Minor Schema of Concurrent Infusions and limited charges won't be an issue.

I'm unaware of the Minor Schema of (Either of those presented) where are they located? And any advice on how it works?

[Troacctid]

I'm unaware of the Minor Schema of (Either of those presented) where are they located? And any advice on how it works?
They're Artificer infusions! Metamagic Item is a 3rd level infusion that applies one of your metamagic feats to a spell trigger item. Concurrent Infusions is a 4th level infusion that allows you to imbue an item with three 1st level infusions at once. They're from Eberron Campaign Setting and Magic of Eberron, respectively. A Minor Schema is a spell completion item introduced in Magic of Eberron that can cast its spell once per day, and can contain either a spell or an infusion. Price is 400 gp x spell level x caster level.

So basically, you use your Schema to cast Concurrent Infusions to imbue one of your items with Spell-Storing Item, a 1st level infusion that turns any item into a spell trigger item with a single charge to cast any spell from any spell list up to a maximum level of half your CL. The other two infusions don't matter; you only need Concurrent Infusions to bypass the xp cost that Spell-Storing Item normally incurs. Now you have a single-use Wand of Swift Haste. Use your other Schema to cast Metamagic Item and make it a Persistent Swift Haste. Cast and enjoy. Both items recharge the next day. Of course an actual Wand of Swift Haste allows you to skip the first step, and either of the two feats I mentioned can make the wand use your spell slots instead of its charges.

[AnonymousPepper]

Think of Schemas as 1/day scrolls.

[RoboEmperor]

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?198092-Free-Metamagic

List of PrCs that give free metamagic.

If you're only looking to persist only 1 spell a day, I suggest either going Illumian (race) or Magical Trickster (easy PrC to qualify into, -1 spellcasting level)

[Grim Reader]

Arcane Thesis might be helpful when you build your character around one spell.

(Trapsmith gets Haste as a level 1 spell)

[Goaty14]

Arcane Thesis might be helpful when you build your character around one spell.

Not really? I mean, for a single persistent spell, using arcane thesis is a ton of investment. Arcane thesis is better used for a spells that you use more often, like orb of sonic, fireball, etc.

[Grim Reader]

Not really? I mean, for a single persistent spell, using arcane thesis is a ton of investment. Arcane thesis is better used for a spells that you use more often, like orb of sonic, fireball, etc.

That too. And spells you want to stack a lot of metamagic on. But it does have its place if you want to get a Persist off as early as possible without DMM.

[ericgrau]

How exactly do you plan to persist Swift Haste once you can cast it? I'm not seeing it and your build doesn't really have the room to add it.
Even if it did there are better spells to persist since you get Haste quickened for free by your class features anyway, so there isn't much point. Just buy a few 3rd level Pearls of Power or a Ring of Wizardry 3 if you find yourself running out or specialize in Transmutation.
Running at high speed all day, running across water, getting defensive bonuses and freedom of movement against surprise attacks I guess.

Another question is what can you do with 2 actions per round with hundreds of rounds between fights that you can't do with 1 action per round. Besides just run faster. There's concentrate on a spell for hours while also doing some repeated mundane action I suppose.

I agree persist haste has little purpose in combat besides when you lost the surprise round. So what is there to do between combat and during a lost surprise round?

[death390]

don't forget knowstones, they cost a bunch but at least you get to add it to your spells known so can persist it from there.