Character Build Help?

[Jahjohama]

Hello All,

I am new to D&D in general and am coming from limited experience in 5E. I am starting a game in 3.5 with 3 other new players, and 2 experienced players (1 of whom is the DM). I have a character story in mind and an idea on how I want my character to play, but I am not familiar with 3.5 and don't know how to create the character I want. I don't need to have some ultra broken cheesy character, but I do want him to feel powerful enough to hold his own and potentially be the leader of the party. I do want him to be a gish - which best fits his backstory as a young nobleman experiencing constant border skirmishes and battles, but who's family legacy is that of the mystic arts - specifically being trained to counter the mystic arts i.e. an anti-magic type build. So basically trained as a warrior/soldier from an extremely young age, and then given a formal education and training in the magic arts all through his teenage/young adult years. I have been trying to research a good build to follow and one that I have settled on is a Duskblade/Abjurant Champion from a long ago post by Kazyan on these forums - see below. If anyone could help me to understand how to build this character i.e. breakdown the levels and when I should prestige and what feats to take and why I should do what it says I would greatly appreciate it. I would like his spells and magic to mostly focus on self buff/protection and disable/debuff the enemy. I know he will have and put to great use his touch spells through his melee attacks, but I would rather him cast dispell/counterspell type options than casting fireball or disintegrate type spells.

"No Touchie: Duskblade 5/Abjurant Champion 5/Uncanny Trickster (AbjChamp) 3/Legacy Champion (Uncanny Trickster) 6/Bloodline 1
+16 BAB, 5th level Duskblade spells, and an effective AbjChamp level of 13. Greater Luminous Armor and Shield combine for +48 to AC and -4 to hit you. That, and more skill tricks than anyone knows what to do with."

Loren, Lord of Tyr a minor house located on the westernmost border of the empire in the shadow of the Silver Tip mountains. Renowned for its capable and disciplined soldiers, who have kept the Emperor's peace and outside forces at bay for hundreds of years is in dire straits financially. The current peace and political climate has crippled Tyr economically and the entire estate is on the brink of collapse. Lykander, third son and youngest child of Loren, a feared and respected warrior; veteran of countless battles has grown restless and cannot sit idly by while his house declines. He has decided to venture into the unknown as an adventurer, he brings with him his fearsome martial training and his arcane education to battle evil and do good in the world seeking treasure and glory for house Tyr.

Lykander Tyr - Human/Noble - Lawful Good
Alienated by the elites of society due to the small and minor stature of his household, yet always feared and respected for his prowess in battle. No interest in political intrigue and machinations, but understands that both the sword and the pen are mighty tools necessary in their own right, at different times.
Protector of, kind to and respecting of the common folk.
Quiet, terse, and observant by nature.

I feel like I'm starting to ramble, I hope this paints a good enough picture of how I want my character to be. Any assistance or guidance on the best way to approach this would be greatly appreciated. Thank you all in advance!

[Palanan]

Do you know what books your DM is allowing material from? That helps us provide options within the parameters of your DM’s particular game.

There are others who can comment on the build overall, but if you have room in the build I’d like to suggest two feats that work well together: Education and Knowledge Devotion. These are highly dependent on the sources your DM allows you to draw from, but given your character’s background these seem appropriate.

[Jahjohama]

My DM said we can use any of the published books for 3.5, and we could house rule things if we wanted as well, he is open to that. He did say however that he may put a stop to certain things if he feels they are too cheesy or not in "the spirit of the game/game breaking". So basically anything goes, unless he decides it doesn't.

[ExLibrisMortis]

"No Touchie: Duskblade 5/Abjurant Champion 5/Uncanny Trickster (AbjChamp) 3/Legacy Champion (Uncanny Trickster) 6/Bloodline 1
+16 BAB, 5th level Duskblade spells, and an effective AbjChamp level of 13. Greater Luminous Armor and Shield combine for +48 to AC and -4 to hit you. That, and more skill tricks than anyone knows what to do with."
This build focuses on applying "+1 level of class features" to the Abjurant Champion class, which has a class feature that adds your AC level to armour and shield bonuses granted by Abjuration spells. AC itself is only five levels long, so it has no new class features to learn, but existing class features can be advanced. Uncanny Trickster adds two levels, Legacy Champion five more, and bloodline levels are a crazy page of alternate rules that adds one more. Together, your effective AC level is 13, which makes shield grant a +17 shield bonus and greater luminous armour a +21 armour bonus, for a total of +38 (I think the +48 is a typo). Greater luminous armour also imposes a -4 penalty on melee attacks made against you.


If you want a gish, I would not play that build. It's a showcase for high magic-based AC, but it's not intended for balanced play, that is, the build is not internally balanced (it's too focused on AC compared to other things you might want to do). Instead, I would look at a straightforward martial wizard 6/swiftblade 9. Powerful, but way fewer moving parts, and much stronger spellcasting, especially in the utility department.


Looking at gishing from another angle, have you considered a leadership-type build, such as a bardsader?

[Jahjohama]

I am open to any build suggestions you have, and the simpler the better for me. I like the idea of a leadership build as well.

I am not familiar with a bardsader, in truth I am not familiar with any 3.5 builds, I am only somewhat familiar with the little bit I have read from the published materials.

[ExLibrisMortis]

A bardsader build is made up of two classes--bard and crusader--and one feat: Song of the White Raven. It employs the bard's Inspire Courage and the crusader's White Raven maneuvers to grant (large) buffs to your allies; we're talking +6 to-hit and damage for the entire group, or the ability to let an ally immediately take another turn; both of these are available (together) at level 9.


Human crusader 1/bard 6/crusader +2
Feats: Extra Granted Maneuver1, Song of the White Raven3, Words of Creation6, Song of the Heartbard 6, Practiced Spellcaster9

Bard (class): Player's Handbook.
Crusader (class), Song of the White Raven (feat), White Raven Tactics (maneuver): Tome of Battle.
Words of Creation (feat): Book of Exalted Deeds.
Song of the Heart (feat): Eberron Campaign Setting.

Your 10th level, which would be bard 7, would also let you cast haste, for even more party-buffing goodness, as well as dispel magic. The human bonus feat is still open, too.

[ChaosStar]

A bardsader build is made up of two classes--bard and crusader--and one feat: Song of the White Raven. It employs the bard's Inspire Courage and the crusader's White Raven maneuvers to grant (large) buffs to your allies; we're talking +6 to-hit and damage for the entire group, or the ability to let an ally immediately take another turn; both of these are available (together) at level 9.


Human crusader 1/bard 6/crusader +2
Feats: Extra Granted Maneuver1, Song of the White Raven3, Words of Creation6, Song of the Heartbard 6, Practiced Spellcaster9

Bard (class): Player's Handbook.
Crusader (class), Song of the White Raven (feat), White Raven Tactics (maneuver): Tome of Battle.
Words of Creation (feat): Book of Exalted Deeds.
Song of the Heart (feat): Eberron Campaign Setting.

Your 10th level, which would be bard 7, would also let you cast haste, for even more party-buffing goodness, as well as dispel magic. The human bonus feat is still open, too.
But if he takes another level of Bard he becomes ineligible for 9th level maneuvers.

[ExLibrisMortis]

But if he takes another level of Bard he becomes ineligible for 9th level maneuvers.
Yes, I was assuming an eventual build of bard 16/crusader 4, not bard 4/crusader 16. Third-, fourth-, and fifth-level bard spells offer more utility (and quite possibly more power) than the maneuvers gained over the equivalent in crusader levels, and since the starting point was a gish, more casting is preferred.

[lylsyly]

Another question not asked is how far will the campaign go level-wise, chaosstar is correct, another level of bard will cut you off from 9th level manuevers (unless there is a feat to help with that, I my group doesn't use TOB much), but if the campaign isn't going a full 20 levels this is less than a problem and the extra level of bard to get haste and dispel can be well worth it.

Another thing is the optimization level of the party as a whole. You say three inexperienced players and one experienced (not counting the DM). This is mainly an optimizers forum (of which I am not really). And the D&D 3.5 rules set has its share of cans of worms that are not really for newish players.

Have you considered asking your DM for help? A good, experienced DM should be able to help you out without letting it reflect in game.

just my 2 cp
YMMV