Strongest banned fighting game characters?

[Anachronity]

As the title suggests, of all fighting game characters that are banned in tournaments due to being overpowered, which one is the strongest?

Rules...
-The character should be banned from most tournaments of that game for being overpowered.
-They must be playable without using cheats/mods/whatever.
-The fighting game in question should have a significant tournament scene.
-The entire character must be banned, not just one of their moves or techniques or a bug that they can perform.
-You should list or abbreviate the game in question, alongside the character.
-This is comparing in-game mechanics, not out-of-game lore.

on bugs...
-Game-breaking and clearly unintentional bugs should be ignored.
(e.g. Metaknight's infinite cape bug would be ignored)
-If it was intentional and just ill-considered, it still counts.

on balance patches...
-Banned characters who were later un-banned due to a balance patch still count, except where that patch simply fixed a game-breaking bug.
-Characters use their most overpowered version. Again, not counting bugs.


I suspect there is some particularly badly balanced fighting game out there where a character could just infinite combo from the very start, but the question then becomes whether there was enough of a legitimate tournament scene for that character to even have been banned. I'm sure almost every fighting game has seen some tournament play, so what qualifies as a 'significant tournament scene' may be somewhat academic.

To my (very limited) knowledge there is Akuma (SF2), Gill (SF3), Metaknight (SSBB), Necrid (SC2), and Yoda (SC4)
I'm sure there are a lot more. Maybe there should be an additional exclusion for boss characters that were nevertheless made playable (like SF2 Akuma)?

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Marth, from the Gamecube version of Super Smash Brothers. That counter he had was pure cheeze. A well played Marth was literally unbeatable.

Also, from the definition of the term, pokemon would probably qualify here, as it is definitely a fighting game with a significant tournament scene. Complicated by the fact that they had categories for 'Overused', 'Underused', and some were banished to 'Ubers'. And of course there was power creep, so every generation had a new list of pokemon who were relegated to the highest tier. Except Chansy, who is probably the only Gen1 Pokemon I'm aware of which is still used in tournament play.

[Zevox]

Marth, from the Gamecube version of Super Smash Brothers. That counter he had was pure cheeze. A well played Marth was literally unbeatable.

Also, from the definition of the term, pokemon would probably qualify here, as it is definitely a fighting game with a significant tournament scene. Complicated by the fact that they had categories for 'Overused', 'Underused', and some were banished to 'Ubers'. And of course there was power creep, so every generation had a new list of pokemon who were relegated to the highest tier. Except Chansy, who is probably the only Gen1 Pokemon I'm aware of which is still used in tournament play.
Marth was never banned. As far as Smash goes, only Brawl's version of MetaKnight has ever been banned, and even that was eventually revoked. (Also, Marth's not even the top character on the tier list for Smash Melee - Fox is.)

And Pokémon isn't a fighting game, except for Pokkén Tournament. It's a turn-based series that most commonly gets categorized as an RPG genre-wise.

Anyway, can't really be of much help on the actual topic. Banned fighters in fighting games is really a thing of the past at this point, between balance patches and the FGC tending to set a pretty high bar for something to be so overpowered that it warrants a ban, so you'd need to dig into older fighting games I've never touched to even really discuss it.

[9mm]

The First, The Original, and still unmatched: Akuma.

[Mando Knight]

Marth, from the Gamecube version of Super Smash Brothers. That counter he had was pure cheeze. A well played Marth was literally unbeatable.

Grab. Marth's counter has great start-up time, but it's worthless against grabs. Mixing things up to keep your opponent guessing is the fighting game version of starting to throw Rock or Scissors sometimes because your opponent got used to you throwing Paper.


Marth was never banned. As far as Smash goes, only Brawl's version of MetaKnight has ever been banned, and even that was eventually revoked. (Also, Marth's not even the top character on the tier list for Smash Melee - Fox is.)

Bayonetta is IIRC occasionally banned in some Smash 4 tournaments, but I think she's quite as dominant as Meta Knight was in Brawl.

[Eurus]

Pokemon doesn't fit the genre, true, but if it did, Mega Rayquaza would probably have to count... that skylizard was so scary they had to ban it from Ubers, the previously-highest tier where all the crazy overpowered mons like Arceus sit. They made an entirely new category specifically to accomodate Mega Rayquaza. :smallamused:

[Kadesh]

Pokemon doesn't fit the genre, true, but if it did, Mega Rayquaza would probably have to count... that skylizard was so scary they had to ban it from Ubers, the previously-highest tier where all the crazy overpowered mons like Arceus sit. They made an entirely new category specifically to accomodate Mega Rayquaza. :smallamused:
There is also RBY Mewtwo who was basically unbeatable.

[danzibr]

Well, my responses are already taken. On Marth not being OP and Metaknight's temporary ban.

I remember seriously cheesing ranged attacks in early Mortal Kombats.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

There is also RBY Mewtwo who was basically unbeatable.

Executor was my go-to for dealing with MewTwo/Allakazam. Sleep Powder/Dream Eater/Stomp/Psychic. The only thing I'd have wished for is Spore, but he doesn't get that. Has a high enough Special and typing that MewTwo's Psychic won't OHKO. If Sleep Powder lands, you can Dream Eater back up, or try Stomping.

[Eurus]

Didn't Mewtwo pack Blizzard in R/B/Y, though? He really was insane, I forgot just how crazy it was.

[Winthur]

Some hacks of UMK3 had Noob Saibot, who was a solid-black palette swap of the regular ninja character (like Scorp and Sub) with no special moves whatsoever. He was banned because of insane movement speed, AI "boss" levels of health, and easy ways to set somebody up with an infinite 100%, as well as kinda barely being a legitimate character.

In MKT Noob Saibot became a full-fledged character that doesn't exactly resemble the hack-UMK3 incarnation and... is easily the #1 character, borderline banned depending where and when you'd ask. Insanely fast disabler, infinite combos, really good normal moves (Human Smoke [who is basically Scorpion but with much faster moves] and Rain are also based on his template and they also have top-tier normals and are top contenders), can relaunch at will, he's ridiculously badass.

Although it's interesting that MKT primarily bans the use of the 4 MK bosses (Goro, Kintaro, Motaro, Shao Kahn) simply because the character ports are dumpster MUGEN level. You have insanely strong supers often with no startup time.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Didn't Mewtwo pack Blizzard in R/B/Y, though? He really was insane, I forgot just how crazy it was.

He could get it with a TM, so it was possible. Not often done, but possible. Personally, I'd have gone with Ice Beam rather than Blizzard, since it has higher accuracy and twice the PP and still has more base attack than Psychic (although without the STAB). But typically, MewTwo goes with Swift, Recover, Psychic, and Amnesia. You could swap out Swift for an Ice attack, but the guaranteed hit is useful on minimized or digging/flying enemies. You more often saw Thunder than Blizzard due to needing to worry about Starmie or Slowbro. Starmie could keep up with MewTwo's speed, and a bubblebeam could slow you down and let other things catch up with you, but was the 'obvious' counter, which was *why* MewTwo generally carried Thunder if it wanted to cover some bases.

Another way to stop MewTwo was Chansey, who always has been a good Special Wall, and one with a pretty good Special stat, and access to things like Blizzard or Thunder Wave. The STAB Double Edge was a trap since Chansey's attack was pathetic, and Gen1 only had the Special stat, it hadn't split Special Attack and Defense up yet.

[Eldariel]

SS2T Gouki, of the ones I know. Permabanned and absolutely disgustingly unbeatable even by Dhalsim/Claw/O.Sagat/Boxer. While Claw and 'Sim have some tricks to actually make a game of it, Gouki's soft immunities and air fireball are just something the game can't handle.

[Kadesh]

He could get it with a TM, so it was possible. Not often done, but possible. Personally, I'd have gone with Ice Beam rather than Blizzard, since it has higher accuracy and twice the PP and still has more base attack than Psychic (although without the STAB). But typically, MewTwo goes with Swift, Recover, Psychic, and Amnesia. You could swap out Swift for an Ice attack, but the guaranteed hit is useful on minimized or digging/flying enemies. You more often saw Thunder than Blizzard due to needing to worry about Starmie or Slowbro. Starmie could keep up with MewTwo's speed, and a bubblebeam could slow you down and let other things catch up with you, but was the 'obvious' counter, which was *why* MewTwo generally carried Thunder if it wanted to cover some bases.

Another way to stop MewTwo was Chansey, who always has been a good Special Wall, and one with a pretty good Special stat, and access to things like Blizzard or Thunder Wave. The STAB Double Edge was a trap since Chansey's attack was pathetic, and Gen1 only had the Special stat, it hadn't split Special Attack and Defense up yet.

True, but Mewtwo had both amnesia (which boosted his attack) and Blizzard had 90% Accuracy in RBY. Exeggutor was a monster however, and couldn't outspeed.

Amensia, Blizzard, Recover, Psychic, and you're golden.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

True, but Mewtwo had both amnesia (which boosted his attack) and Blizzard had 90% Accuracy in RBY. Exeggutor was a monster however, and couldn't outspeed.

Amensia, Blizzard, Recover, Psychic, and you're golden.

Go Blizzard, and you'll get hammered by either Slowbro, who also has Amnesia and STAB Hydro Pump, or Starmie who has the speed to keep up with Mewtwo plus STAB Bubblebeam with greater accuracy and speed debuff. Starmie also had Recover, and was one of the most used pokemon in tournaments in Gen1, so way more Mewtwos had Thunder than Blizzard.

[Mikemical]

I remember back in Dragon Ball Budokai Tenkaichi 3, they wanted to ban Broly at local cons since he was severely overpowered and so simple to use that even a 12-year old could win by button-mashing. Then a guy using Mr. Satan wiped the floor with every Broly that he faced, and people just shut up about it.

People whined since the EVO Sm4sh final was Bayonetta vs Bayonetta, but apparently every final in Melee being Fox vs Fox was okay. Heavens forbid Bayonetta has more than one combo to KO an opponent with. She is strong, yes, but not invincible. The Smash community is full of crybabies.

[Lord Raziere]

I remember back in Dragon Ball Budokai Tenkaichi 3, they wanted to ban Broly at local cons since he was severely overpowered and so simple to use that even a 12-year old could win by button-mashing. Then a guy using Mr. Satan wiped the floor with every Broly that he faced, and people just shut up about it.


Really? Oh my god, I think that would earn the TFS seal of approval if they ever heard about that. Hail Satan! :smallbiggrin:

[Kadesh]

Go Blizzard, and you'll get hammered by either Slowbro, who also has Amnesia and STAB Hydro Pump, or Starmie who has the speed to keep up with Mewtwo plus STAB Bubblebeam with greater accuracy and speed debuff. Starmie also had Recover, and was one of the most used pokemon in tournaments in Gen1, so way more Mewtwos had Thunder than Blizzard.
Slowbro was 3HKO with +2 Mewtwo and a 1/ Crit Chance, and couldn't be sure it wasn't running Tbolt unless Mewtwo had already decimated most of the team, and Chansey wasn't sure it didn't have Submission, but that was a rarer set. And if Slowbro or Starmie was in, well that was what the meta was based around taking out in any case.

Slowbro was not a total counter, and Starmie was also operating from 115 speed vs 130, didn't pack Bubblebeam because Twave.

Also:

https://www.smogon.com/stats/2018-06/moveset/gen1ubers-1760.txt

Suggests that TBolt, despite popular, standard Mewtwo set was based around Blizz/Psychic/Recover/Amnesia.

Gen 1 Mewtwo was the nearest thing to a god the game has ever seen. The changes in later editions means that the plethora of similar 'God Tier mon' like Xerneas, Arceus and Yveltal makes even Mega Rayquaza not noticeably uncounterable in the way that Gen 1 Mewtwo is.

[Klaatu B. Nikto]

In Tekken 3, it was Eddy Gordo. He used capoeira and probably the cheesiest character to face. You could rack up victories without really looking at the screen.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Slowbro was 3HKO with +2 Mewtwo and a 1/ Crit Chance, and couldn't be sure it wasn't running Tbolt unless Mewtwo had already decimated most of the team, and Chansey wasn't sure it didn't have Submission, but that was a rarer set. And if Slowbro or Starmie was in, well that was what the meta was based around taking out in any case.

Slowbro was not a total counter, and Starmie was also operating from 115 speed vs 130, didn't pack Bubblebeam because Twave.

Also:

https://www.smogon.com/stats/2018-06/moveset/gen1ubers-1760.txt

Suggests that TBolt, despite popular, standard Mewtwo set was based around Blizz/Psychic/Recover/Amnesia.

Gen 1 Mewtwo was the nearest thing to a god the game has ever seen. The changes in later editions means that the plethora of similar 'God Tier mon' like Xerneas, Arceus and Yveltal makes even Mega Rayquaza not noticeably uncounterable in the way that Gen 1 Mewtwo is.

The other counter to MewTwo was Voltorb with Explosion. Fast enough to catch it, high enough Special that it won't OHKO, and this was back in the day where Explosion halved your defense. Of course, you see Voltorb, you know what is coming next and you can swap out for someone else to take the hit, but I think all other Explosion users were OHKO's from MewTwo's STAB Psychic.

[GloatingSwine]

Marth was never banned. As far as Smash goes, only Brawl's version of MetaKnight has ever been banned, and even that was eventually revoked. (Also, Marth's not even the top character on the tier list for Smash Melee - Fox is.)

If Smash 4 wasn't on the way out, this year's Evo pretty much guarantees Bayonetta would be banned next year.

[Zevox]

If Smash 4 wasn't on the way out, this year's Evo pretty much guarantees Bayonetta would be banned next year.
I very much doubt that. Like I mentioned, even the MetaKnight ban in Brawl didn't stick, and to my understanding at least Bayonetta is not as dominant in 4 as MetaKnight was in Brawl. Heck, three finalists using her and the finals being a mirror is basically the same as Melee often sees with Fox.

I mean, that's not even close to the Evo game with the most imbalanced top 8. Look over at the Dragon Ball FighterZ finals, where four teams used two of the top 3 characters (Cell, Kid Buu, Bardock) on the game's tier list, two used one, one player switched from a team that used one of them to a team that used two of them, and the last team was built around the #4 character, Adult Gohan. Of course, that game also got a balance patch right after Evo, but still, even if it hadn't I guarantee no one would be talking about banning any of those top 3. The FGC's standards for what warrants a ban are very high.

[Kadesh]

The other counter to MewTwo was Voltorb with Explosion. Fast enough to catch it, high enough Special that it won't OHKO, and this was back in the day where Explosion halved your defense. Of course, you see Voltorb, you know what is coming next and you can swap out for someone else to take the hit, but I think all other Explosion users were OHKO's from MewTwo's STAB Psychic.
In a meta rife with Rhydon and Exeggcutor, not really. Electrode (I assume you mean) struggled to make a dent. Electrode is possibly the weakest Explosion.

Again, it doesn't mean he wasn't unbeatable. Mispredicts, low accuracy rolls all can fall into play, but Mewtwo was so dominant and over whelming he had to be played around. He was the sole occupant of the original Uber meta for a reason back in RB, while other mon like Tauros might have earned in OU.

I'm not saying your points aren't valid, but with two sets, Mewtwo could solo entire teams, and it was a case of 'which set did it pack?'.

[GloatingSwine]

I very much doubt that. Like I mentioned, even the MetaKnight ban in Brawl didn't stick, and to my understanding at least Bayonetta is not as dominant in 4 as MetaKnight was in Brawl. Heck, three finalists using her and the finals being a mirror is basically the same as Melee often sees with Fox.
.

When a character distorts the game so badly that anyone using them is being booed and the two finalists basically refuse to play properly in protest at how unpopular they now are, that's a sign that corrective action is necessary for tournament organisers.

[Zevox]

When a character distorts the game so badly that anyone using them is being booed and the two finalists basically refuse to play properly in protest at how unpopular they now are, that's a sign that corrective action is necessary for tournament organisers.
Hardly. It's a sign of an audience that isn't happy at watching a Bayonetta mirror, nothing more, and the audience doesn't dictate game balance. If Bayonetta's not dominating the game as badly as Meta Knight did in Brawl, and his ban didn't even stick, there's no way she'd be banned. Competitive communities just don't take that measure except in pretty extreme circumstances.