How far can you throw someone?

[krugaan]

Was reading enlarge/reduce for a consideration as a potential sorcerer spell for twinning, and EvilAnagrams sorc guide points out it is a viable spell for twinning, ie. enlarge the fighter and reduce the enemy, fine.

Playing Dark Souls 3, recently, and many bosses are huge and have grab attacks when the player is thrown around, so I thought ... why wouldn't a huge player be able to grab a small creature and fling it at the wall for damage? Or throw it straight up?

Throwing something straight up might theoretically count as a soft form of CC. It flies up (lets say 60'), gets a significant amount of hangtime, then falls 60' to the ground (taking 6d6 fall damage) and probably ends up prone on the ground.

The Rub: There doesn't seem to be any calculation for throwing non-weapon things, though.


edit: current in an SKT campaign, it would be decidedly uncool if the giants decided to pull these tactics against players.

"PC baseball" comes to mind.

[Ninja_Prawn]

Further than you can trust them, in one of my games! :smalltongue:

(Serious answer: I'd just go with 10 feet for simplicity's sake, and you'd have to win an athletics contest with a creature you already have grappled, as per the Wrestle action in here (http://mfov.magehandpress.com/2018/07/using-skill-checks-in-combat.html).)

[LtPowers]

There are no rules for throwing creatures. They are not improvised weapons, as improvised weapons have to be objects, not creatures.

You can grapple a creature and then shove it, but that only goes 5 feet. In theory, if you were able to lift the creature above your head, you could "shove" upward, but the creature would probably have to be restrained to allow that, not just grappled.

Anything else is in the realm of DM experimentation and requires a decision about how closely to balance verisimilitude with simplicity.


Powers &8^]

[krugaan]

Further than you can trust them, in one of my games! :smalltongue:

(Serious answer: I'd just go with 10 feet for simplicity's sake, and you'd have to win an athletics contest with a creature you already have grappled, as per the Wrestle action in here (http://mfov.magehandpress.com/2018/07/using-skill-checks-in-combat.html).)

/zing

10' is a fairly useless distance, sadly, but I suppose there just isn't any mechanic for huge creatures grabbing tiny ones.


There are no rules for throwing creatures. They are not improvised weapons, as improvised weapons have to be objects, not creatures.

You can grapple a creature and then shove it, but that only goes 5 feet. In theory, if you were able to lift the creature above your head, you could "shove" upward, but the creature would probably have to be restrained to allow that, not just grappled.

Anything else is in the realm of DM experimentation and requires a decision about how closely to balance verisimilitude with simplicity.


The balance part would probably be difficult. Then again, the statistics for giants are sort of physically improbable to begin with, I think. The male frost and fire giants weigh around 1900-2400 pounds and are about 20' tall. For reference, a Ford F-150 is about 4000 pounds, and is roughly 6'x12'x5'. An African elephant weighs about 10,000 pounds.

Giants seem to be much less dense than water.

edit: another fun fact - your typical 2 foot diameter granite "boulder" weighs about 691 pounds, and your typical frost giant can throw it at least 240'. That's like your typical human male being able to throw a 50 pound bowling ball further than the length of your typical bowling alley lane (60').

So really, a frost giant should be able to grab a PC and fling him 240' into the air with no problem at all.

[Ninja_Prawn]

huge creatures grabbing tiny ones

That's a good point. You've actually inspired me to modify that action so that the distance is increased if you're larger than the target. Thank you! :smallsmile:

[strangebloke]

One of these days I swear I'll write up a "MAKE BIG MONSTERS BIG" guide.

Because a huge giant should feel big. Like getting stepped on should be an issue.

[krugaan]

One of these days I swear I'll write up a "MAKE BIG MONSTERS BIG" guide.

Because a huge giant should feel big. Like getting stepped on should be an issue.

Yeah, seriously. If I were a giant, I would be grappling PCs and just scraping them along the nearest hard surface.

Or throwing them in a sack and beating the sack against the ground or something.

[BRKNdevil]

Depends on Mass, Initial Height, both of our relative Velocities, Am I throwing in the same direction as my instantaneous velocity, amount of Kinetic energy I can impart and the relative gravity of a the area I am throwing in.

This is of course assuming that I am throwing under and moving under a velocity where drag is about 0 and using the most efficient method of throwing as well. Additionally I am assuming that I am throwing Tangentially to the relative curvature of whatever planet in whatever plane I am currently on

[BloodSnake'sCha]

You can look at the feat "fling enemy" from 3.5e Races of Stone p.140 for inspiration.

In there you need to win a skill cheak and get the distance base on the difference is the cheaks.
The max range of this is base on the size different with a bonus to rock trowing races.

[Tanarii]

One of these days I swear I'll write up a "MAKE BIG MONSTERS BIG" guide.

Because a huge giant should feel big. Like getting stepped on should be an issue.


Yeah, seriously. If I were a giant, I would be grappling PCs and just scraping them along the nearest hard surface.

Or throwing them in a sack and beating the sack against the ground or something.
That'd be a different kind of RPG game. The "dragon lands, you're all dead" kind.

More Cthulhu-esque. See something big and nasty and obviously dangerous, you don't try to fight it. You all run, and the slowest PC dies in a gruesome narrative way. Or maybe in a heroically stands to hold the monstrous thing at bay way. Then the rest of you finally get home again and go to the tavern and hoist a tankard for the fallen ...

[strangebloke]

That'd be a different kind of RPG game. The "dragon lands, you're all dead" kind.

More Cthulhu-esque. See something big and nasty and obviously dangerous, you don't try to fight it. You all run, and the slowest PC dies in a gruesome narrative way. Or maybe in a heroically stands to hold the monstrous thing at bay way. Then the rest of you finally get home again and go to the tavern and hoist a tankard for the fallen ...

Eh, not necessarily. You might to make the big monsters have a higher CR, particularly ones like the hill giant, but... Eh, I'll write out up some time.

[krugaan]

That'd be a different kind of RPG game. The "dragon lands, you're all dead" kind.

More Cthulhu-esque. See something big and nasty and obviously dangerous, you don't try to fight it. You all run, and the slowest PC dies in a gruesome narrative way. Or maybe in a heroically stands to hold the monstrous thing at bay way. Then the rest of you finally get home again and go to the tavern and hoist a tankard for the fallen ...

a bit more gritty realism, i guess, but seriously.

A halfing fighting a giant would almost literally devolve into stomping and ankle biting.

[Afrodactyl]

I'm running SKT at the moment, and I've had giants throwing PCs. Attack to grapple, then action next turn to throw. Medium PCs go 20', small PCs go 30'. I've only ever thrown them into objects (houses, cliff faces, etc), at which point I use the damage for whatever their boulder damage is.

Obviously the insta-hit from the "boulder" is mitigated somewhat by the PC having two opportunities to break the grapple prior to being thrown.

The reduced throw distance is mostly so that the PCs don't spend the entire combat getting yo-yo'd, and partly because it's difficult to throw something that really doesn't want to be thrown (they flail around and make themselves hard to grip properly, grab hold of a digit as they're thrown giving them more drag, etc).

[CTurbo]

I played a Grappling Goliath Bear Barb and he liked to throw enemies. If I was already successfully grappling somebody, I could make an Athletics check to throw them. I rolled a d20 and multiplied the result x5ft. If I crit, I rolled again and added the distance of both rolls. So anywhere between 5-100ft for a medium creature. For small I added a 1d10 and for large I subtracted a 1d10 from the roll. Funnily enough I did crit miss a throw once and basically dropped the enemy 5ft in front of me. I also crit throwing a Skeleton and ended up throwing it like 165ft away or something silly lol.

It was great

[Unoriginal]

One of these days I swear I'll write up a "MAKE BIG MONSTERS BIG" guide.




edit: current in an SKT campaign, it would be decidedly uncool if the giants decided to pull these tactics against players.

"PC baseball" comes to mind.


There are no rules for throwing creatures


One of these days I swear I'll write up a "MAKE BIG MONSTERS BIG" guide.

From Storm King's Thunder, p. 245 and 246:

Cloud Giant:


Fling:
The giant tries to throw a Small or Medium creature within 10 feet of it. The target must succeed on a DC 20 Dexterity saving throw or be hurled up to 60 feet horizontally in a direction oft he giant's choice and land prone, taking 1d8 bludgeoning damage for every 10 feet it was thrown.

Stone Giant:


Fling
The giant tries to throw a Small or Medium creature within 10 feet ofit. The target must succeed on a DC 17 Dexterity saving throw or be hurled up to 60 feet horizontally in a direction of the giant's choice and land prone, taking 1d6 bludgeoning damage for every 10 feet it was thrown.



So yes, there are rules about huge beings throwing smaller ones.



Because a huge giant should feel big. Like getting stepped on should be an issue.

SKT p.426:


Tackle
When the giant enters any enemy's space for the first time on a turn, the enemy must succeed on a DC 19 Strength saving throw or be knocked prone.

[krugaan]

/snip


See, now that's what i meant. The Tackle ability immediately makes giants *way* more threatening. Actually the fling ability has a very high chance of screwing over casters.

Hell, both of those are super dangerous, really.

[Unoriginal]

See, now that's what i meant. The Tackle ability immediately makes giants *way* more threatening. Actually the fling ability has a very high chance of screwing over casters.

Hell, both of those are super dangerous, really.

Well, that's the point. Enemies are dangerous.

[Malifice]

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/lotr/images/e/ec/Gimli_-_FOTR.png/revision/latest?cb=20121008105956

Gimli disapproves of this thread.

[Unoriginal]

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/lotr/images/e/ec/Gimli_-_FOTR.png/revision/latest?cb=20121008105956

Gimli disapproves of this thread.

Gimli should have thrown Aragorn, in the third movie.

[Malifice]

Gimli should have thrown Aragorn, in the third movie.

Jump
1st-level transmutation (Ranger)
Casting Time 1 action
Range Touch
Components V S M (Grasshopper's hind leg)
Duration 1 minute
The target's jump distance is tripled until the spell ends.

Nah...

[Arkhios]

I think it's fair to be able to throw someone (of your general size at least) only up to 10 ft. away from you. I mean, it's basically just an "unarmed attack" you're making.
But I do agree that it also makes sense for someone that's larger than the target to be able to throw the targer farther.

I'd probably go with something like this:

As long as the target isn't larger than you, you may attempt an Athletics (Strength) check opposed by your target's Athletics (Strength) or Acrobatics (Dexterity) check. If you win, you can make either a Long Throw or a High Throw. The target takes damage as if it had fallen an equal distance and falls prone. If you make a long throw and the target hits a solid object before it would land, you add your strength modifier to the damage roll.
The distance you can throw a target depends on your size category and it can be increased if the target is smaller than you.

Long Throws:
You can throw a target horizontally up to 10 ft. For every size category the target is smaller than you, add 10 ft. to the distance you can throw it.
High Throws:
You can throw a target vertically depending on your own size category (WIP). For every size category the target is smaller than you, add 5 ft. to the distance you can throw it.

If the distance you would throw a target is up to 5ft. or less, the throw deals damage equal to your unarmed strike.

If the target would take damage from the throw, it can attempt a Constitution saving throw to halve the damage. If the target succeeds, it can choose to not fall prone.
A creature that is immune to the prone condition automatically succeeds in this saving throw.

The saving throw DC for this save is equal to 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Strength modifier.

[KorvinStarmast]

My house rule is "you can throw another creature 5' if you are of equal size, and succeed on a DC 10 Athletics check. Weaker players with no athletics proficiency have a harder time, but it's not impossible. You also need to have a grapple going.

Add 10' range for every differential in size, and no need for an Athletics check unless something else is going on that calls for it.

Example: Hill Giant, Huge, routinely throws a human 25' an ogre 15' and a Halfling 35'. (Note: that's still not as far as from home plate to first on a softball field, so it's not all that far). To throw farther takes an Athletics check with a higher DC, desired range depending). Throwing something larger than you is a case by case basis; for example, I let a goliath toss an ogre 5' as "roughly equal size" due to goliath having the one size larger feature. If I were a human paladin trying the same thing, that requires a DC in the 15-18 range.

The above is certainly not physics, but it's close enough so that the verisimilitude matches up OK. It's also very easy to remember and apply off the top of my head during play.

[Malifice]

Make a DC 15 Strength [athletics] check.

Make it and the tossed PC goes a long way.

Because thats more awesome than the guy in the gym, and better than trying to math it out and measure ****.

[Desteplo]

Improvised weapons are given examples as dead goblin bodies. They are easy examples

But they count as literally anything not on the table

Grapple check
Shove check
Best RAW example

Otherwise grapple
grapple feat to restrain
And improvised weapons (alive people) have thrown distance 20/60

[strangebloke]

From Storm King's Thunder, p. 245 and 246:

Cloud Giant:

Stone Giant:

So yes, there are rules about huge beings throwing smaller ones.

SKT p.426:

Cool! I don't pick up the modules, but it is good see other people with similar ideas.

I was more thinking a multi-part monster. Like one monster is 'legs of the giant' and can move the giant or step on people and pin them if they fail a strength save. Then another monster is 'arms of the giant' and it can make attacks or cast spells.

... and then if you want to go crazy, you give each of the arms/legs paragon exhaustion.

Basically, the idea would be to make a single giant or dragon into a fun encounter that could engage the whole party.

[krugaan]

Well, that's the point. Enemies are dangerous.

It's better to see them at a more crunchy level of dangerous!


https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/lotr/images/e/ec/Gimli_-_FOTR.png/revision/latest?cb=20121008105956

Gimli disapproves of this thread.

I laughed. Gimli looks like he found a load of cat spew on the carpet like I did this morning before work.


I think it's fair to be able to throw someone (of your general size at least) only up to 10 ft. away from you. I mean, it's basically just an "unarmed attack" you're making.
But I do agree that it also makes sense for someone that's larger than the target to be able to throw the targer farther.

I'd probably go with something like this:

As long as the target isn't larger than you, you may attempt an Athletics (Strength) check opposed by your target's Athletics (Strength) or Acrobatics (Dexterity) check. If you win, you can make either a Long Throw or a High Throw. The target takes damage as if it had fallen an equal distance and falls prone. If you make a long throw and the target hits a solid object before it would land, you add your strength modifier to the damage roll.
The distance you can throw a target depends on your size category and it can be increased if the target is smaller than you.

Long Throws:
You can throw a target horizontally up to 10 ft. For every size category the target is smaller than you, add 10 ft. to the distance you can throw it.
High Throws:
You can throw a target vertically depending on your own size category (WIP). For every size category the target is smaller than you, add 5 ft. to the distance you can throw it.

If the distance you would throw a target is up to 5ft. or less, the throw deals damage equal to your unarmed strike.

If the target would take damage from the throw, it can attempt a Constitution saving throw to halve the damage. If the target succeeds, it can choose to not fall prone.
A creature that is immune to the prone condition automatically succeeds in this saving throw.

The saving throw DC for this save is equal to 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Strength modifier.

I like it, but I feel like the SKT rules are even more elegant in their simplicity. It just means giants can't throw anything larger than medium, which seems a little off, but whatever. The point is they can now throw PCs against the wall like a water balloon.

[Slayn82]

As an anecdote from my experience. I'm no giant (5' 9") , and not very much of an athlete (290 lbs, mostly fat, unfortunately), but I've once throw a guy weighting around 140 lbs about 15 - 20 feet away. Took most of my stamina at once, but it was under a lot of adrenaline. And I took him from behind and spun around my on axis, somehow making both of his feet go out of the ground before releasing him, think he tried to jump when I got him and wasn't expecting the spin. I don't see myself having more than 12 at strenght in D&D back then.