Cleric/Paladin Multiclass Advise

[Alexborn101]

Greetings all, I am currently in a 5e game, playing a Lvl 5 Dragonborn War Cleric. I feel like I roleplay him more akin to a Paladin. I was wondering if taking my next three levels in Paladin would be stupid, and make me far less powerful than the party. His stats are
Str-16
Dex-9
Con-15
Wis-16
Int-9
Cha-14

[Quoxis]

Cleric and Paladin don’t mesh that well because A) MAD and b) class features that don’t stack (e.g. channel divinity).
That being said: paladin and any form of full caster is great, simply because you get higher spell slots much faster - smites for days.
The flip side: you don’t get higher level cleric spells for a while and because paladin is a half caster class your slot progression is slowed down too.

[Alexborn101]

Guess I'll be sticking to cleric then. Thanks.

[Sirithhyando]

One thing tough, a level 6 cleric get 2 channel divinity per short rest.
So, if you really want to use the paladin channel divinity, you could use it 2 times per rest.

Most of the two class don't synergise well, but this one does.

[Sception]

A cleric can get some mileage out of a brief foray into paladin. Two levels gets you smite, a combat style, and, if you take psladin at first level, heavy armor, if your domain doesn't otherwise grant that, at the cost of being one level behind in slots and two behind in spell access and cleric features.

Probably not a good trade, but a workable one.

[nickl_2000]

I don't know, you can say it's MAD, but it really depends on how you play it. If you take only 2 levels in Paladin I don't think you will really suffer for the lack of Charisma. You get first level Paladin spells, but you don't have to use the slots earned to cast Paladin spells.

You get 3 Paladin spells prepared at level 2. If you prepare Bless, Shield of Faith, and Divine Favor you really aren't hurt at all by low charisma. On the other hand, you gain smites, a fighting style, and 10 HP of lay on hands. Then you take the rest of you levels in Cleric. You can smite all day long, cast with Cleric slots and Wisdom, and boost your Strength. Overall if it's something that sounds fun to you, go for it.

[CTurbo]

I wouldn't do it. It would put you too far behind in your progression.

What are you unhappy about with your build?

[Alexborn101]

CTurbo, it just seems to me that cleric isn't the class that fits how he acts, but it's 5 levels too late to change that.

[nickl_2000]

CTurbo, it just seems to me that cleric isn't the class that fits how he acts, but it's 5 levels too late to change that.

Why? Are you play Adventure League? If you are struggling with the character and it doesn't seem fitting, talk to your DM. You would be amazed at how understanding DMs can be (as long as you don't abuse the privilege).

[Alexborn101]

I tried that, he said no.

[Spectrulus]

There's nothing wrong with sticking to War Cleric. Between your heavy hits starting at 8 with Divine Strike, War Priest, and spiritual weapon, you'll be doing okay. A 2, 5, or 6 level foray into paladin proper could help out your play style, but there's nothing saying a cleric of war wouldn't love going around basing heads for their deity.

I have a primeval warden ranger who role plays like they're actually a druid. It's close, and why not?

[Willie the Duck]

CTurbo, it just seems to me that cleric isn't the class that fits how he acts, but it's 5 levels too late to change that.

The class system is an artifact of when character role was much more proscribed by class, and even back-in-the-day, the light between a martial cleric and a pious paladin was pretty narrow. Exactly what is this guy doing that is far too paladin-y to feel war-cleric-y.

Strategically, MAD is the main concern of paladin-cleric multiclassing, but you've already assigned your stats and they are... alright... for a paladin. Not great, but alright. It would not be ridiculous to make a 2-level dip into paladin (whereupon you would cast spells as a 6th level caster, have paladin 1st level spells, a fighting style, and could burn spells on smites). I would call it suboptimal, but not really bad. If the party really needs a front-liner more than a spellcaster, it would not be a bad trade-off. After that, you would have to decide if you wanted to keep going for paladin 6, or stick with the 2.

[Alexborn101]

He's honour-driven, stubborn in his ways, and the party leader. That feels like the paladin type to me.

[Willie the Duck]

I wouldn't disagree. OTOH, if you were to ask me how to roleplay a Dragonborn War-domain Cleric, it wouldn't deviate from that description very much either.

[Alexborn101]

You raise a good point.

[ciarannihill]

Dipping Paladin isn't an awful idea, but I would consider how long you think this campaign is going to go on for before deciding, because level 8 is a big level for Cleric because you get both an ASI and Divine Strike.

If you don't think it makes loads of sense to wait for that because the campaign might end before level 10 then dipping 2 levels into Paladin seems fine -- gives you Divine Smite, extra non-spell healing in Lay on Hands, a Fighting style and a couple of extra spells all of which are useful short term without hurting your long term growth much because there's less going forward.

If you plan on doing this game hugely long term, like until tier 3 play then I would wait until hitting Cleric 8 for that larger boost in power before dipping into Paladin, and I probably wouldn't do more than 3 level in Paladin so you can still get 9th level spells as Cleric and the War Domain capstone Avatar of Battle at level 20 (assuming the game and character make it that far).


Just my 2 copper, good luck!


EDIT: Alternatively you can get to Cleric 8 then rush Paladin 5 for Extra Attack, given how well it stacks with Divine Strike. Eventually aim for Cleric 14/Paladin 6 to have 3 attacks (factoring bonus action attack) for 3d8+7 plus whatever you Smite for. Assuming you do max Smite (5d8 for a 4th level or higher slot) on each attack that ends up as: 24d8+21 (129 avg) damage or thereabouts assuming Duelist fighting style with shield and longsword. If you go GWF the math changes a bit, but I don't think it increases too much to go from 3d8+21 to 6d6+15 (if my back of napkin math is accurate it's just shy of a 6 avg damage increase overall).

[PeteNutButter]

I’m going to contrary and say go for it. It isn’t the best MC option but you’ve already got the stats so MADness isn’t an issue. CD not stacking is a dumb rule so your DM might change it, but even if he doesn’t it just one minor struggle. Taking two levels in paladin avoids that pitfall if it bothers you.

Even taking 6 levels in paladin wouldn’t be terrible. +2 to the saves for you and local allies is nothing to scoff at. Either way both smite and extra attack are massive boosts to your martial capability.

IMO clerics get the job done with 5 levels and their higher features aren’t all that great if you don’t expect to see the capstone.

[CTurbo]

Of course it would work if you did it, but I would be tempted to go Pally and never look back if you did decide to multiclass.

[WereRabbitz]

Why not dip a few levels into fighter?

Your a war cleric and if your melee focused then Fighter isn't a bad dip and goes well with your fighting style.

Heck if you dipped 5 levels you would get Action Surge, Second Wind, Extra Attack, and a Arch Type Feature.


Extra Attack + Divine Strike is a poor man's 3 attacks per round :)

[UnintensifiedFa]

I would go at least 3 levels in Paladin, Vengence so you can get vow of enmity several times per short rest, 5 levels will get extra attack and 6 levels will grant aura of protection. The more cleric levels you get, the more smites you will have, which is always good.

[MrStabby]

I am not sure why you need to do this. From an RP perspective you are playing the character you want - you can have a priest with the attitudes associated with paladins.

Mechanically - is it more combat prowess you want? If so then consider barbarian and fighter as well. Depending on the level you expect to get to warlock or valor/swords bard might also be of interest - although that would take a few more levels than the cleric.

Warlock may sound odd but it might be a better fit than Paladin, or at least have some advantages over paladin mechanically. Flavour-wise you are a heavy armour wearing tank that casts spells and smites stuff and this needn't change. 5 levels of blade pact warlock will get you an extra attack and you can chose to smite as well if you wish. You can also use your 2 high level slots from warlock each short rest to keep a barrage of spells going: spirit guardians every fight and enough low level and utility spells to keep feeling like you are often doing magic.

The downside of the warlock as a melee chassis is that it doesn't give things like heavy armour proficiency - no problem if you also have war cleric. The warlock also gets a lot of good spells that don't need charisma that high to work - armor of agathys, hex, invisibility, darkness, misty step, shadow blade, fly... and these are even ignoring the patron spells (shield, blur, blink, elemental weapon for the hexblade for example).