D&D Powers in the real world: Level 20 Fighter

[Segev]

We've seen numerous "what if you were a level 20 Wizard in the real world?" and similar threads. I know all of us have some ideas for how we'd (ab)use such power to shape the world - or at least our own lives - to our satisfaction.

But what if, instead of a magic-using class, you woke up tomorrow and found yourself a level 20...fighter? Straight fighter, all 20 levels. For argument's sake, just as in most of these thought experiments, nobody else has gained any superpowers, classes, or the like. You're the only D&D character in the world. You do wake up with the WBL appropriate, but, for the sake of the spirit of this experiment, no items that would make the fact that you're a fighter and not a commoner irrelevant. (i.e. don't pretend to be a wizard with your items; I do leave this up to your judgment, though, as we all have at least a fuzzy idea of where that line lies.)

What do you do? Does this change your life in any notable way? Does a level 20 fighter have powers, via his feats, hp, etc., to be a world-changing figure? To even make his own life more comfortable?

Optimize the heck out of it, as long as your item choices enhance "being a fighter" rather than substituting for "not being a wizard." You've otherwise been given free reign to design your build as a straight Fighter 20, and to then use that power as you wish in the real world.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Well, without some serious resource expenditure, and without WBL, a fighter would just look like a really tough thug, who is bad at everything except hitting stuff. No skills, no ability to use technology. Basically, he'd be good as a Terminator expy, but Rambo he ain't, as he'd need stealth skills and Survival for that.

He'd make a good firefighter, I guess, able to run into fires, survive the heat and the smoke, and pull people out again.

With enough magic items, he could be a force to be reckoned with, however. A psychoactive skin of proteus would be ideal, giving him a huge number of offensive, defensive, mobility, and utility advantages. It'd even be great for healing!

Still, even with that, his mental abilities (skills, mostly) would be extremely lacking. He might be good as a Hulk stand-in, or maybe as a very specialized special agent (at least, with extensive use of ACFs), but honestly, he'd be better off giving the psychoactive skin to someone who actually has skill in something other than Jump and Ride. Maybe he could teach horseback riding somewhere?

Fighter is an NPC class, even at higher levels. There's not much they can do that warriors can't. So they get a few extra feats. The warrior could do that by spending some WBL on some feat-granting items.

[BWR]

Depending on what feats I have I could make a successful career as a bodyguard, mercenary, martial arts/combat instructor or sport fighter, and probably general athlete as well with the right skills. I'd probably be the best in the world, the best ever, if you assume that everything about 5th level is basically impossible for RL humans.

[JeenLeen]

Compared to the mundane world, you'd be almost invincible. If you have a Ring of Regeneration or something else to quickly heal damage, and Ring of Freedom of Movement to keep from being held, you are pretty much unstoppable. Maybe a nuke, but I'd think you could tank literal tank artillery. And punch/carve through tanks.

But what to do? Conquering isn't really that fun to me.
Interesting caveat: if you took the Leadership feat to get an army, would your cohort & minions have character levels and thus powers? A rogue cohort assistance could be really helpful. Even if cohorts are limited to fighters, still, that's a powerful army and you could have some devote skills to cross-class things.

But let's think about skills. Even with cross-class skill costs (though I'm sure some feats could help with that), you'd be awesome at whatever you devote points to. Hmm... maybe an engineering specialist who uses his nigh-invulnerability to do research in hostile environments? Or to build things that aren't really feasible otherwise?

If I wanted a life of luxury, working demolition or construction. Between high strength and durability, could probably do work a lot faster than others, so get bad a comparable wage for a little bit of work. (Sort of like some supers in the Grrlpower comic do construction or other utility work.)

[Gnaeus]

You can use fighter bonus feats to unlock Tome of Battle strikes and maneuvers up to level 5. That’s stuff like teleports, Swift invisibility, limited flight and fire resistance. They also add class skills, some of which are good. So, of my 11 fighter feats, definitely start with martial study x3 and martial stance x2 or 3.

You can use feats to shape soulmelds from incarna. That’s another set of cool potential powers, including healing people and walking on water.

There’s a third set of feats that grant spell likes. http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?318492-Feats-that-grant-spells-spell-like-abilities. The fey Heritage line for example, gives SNA V (unicorn based healing included), dimension door, confusion, charm monster, deep slumber and disguise self for a cost of 3 feats. Or fiendish heritage for teleport, Summon monster V and suggestion.

Get a dragonmark. I’d go with healing or passage but there are other winners.

If you can’t use being a near bulletproof superhuman with soulmelds and ToB to make arbitrary amounts of money or secure followers you are doing it wrong.

[zlefin]

Hmm, an interesting challenge.
I'd set aside all items; as most items are either not particularly relevant, or just wbl-mancy effects, even the passive ones could be darn useful, but would work just as well on a commoner. even if yuo're not trying to be a wizard, there's tons of just plain useful items that could do things hard to do in the real world.
So i'd say it's better to just say you have no wbl.

You could pull off stunts no real world person could, at least in terms of survivability; but even high end stuntmen don't make great money generally. and ofc you're probably not trained in the right kind of skills.
You could become an olympic-class athlete, at least in some fields. though again you wouldn't have the training for the sports.


often you'd be better off using your feats to dip into a subsystem to get bonuses (like incarnum, or ToB) than to focus on anything fightery.

One big question is whether you could let your body be analyzed by medical science to gain any useful advances in technology.

[JyP]

- having 1st level fighter class features means I am suddenly able to wield a lot of weapons & all armors - depending on whether we are on D20 Modern or D&D 3.5 not it could mean a real difference there.
- 20th level fighter BAB means a *lot* of accuracy to hit anything, maybe I will take up Olympics on archery, fencing or world paintball championship ^^

[SimonMoon6]

A high-level fighter could possibly be a great athlete (what with being able to hit things (including balls),to jump high to put balls in baskets, etc, and possibly even being a great runner with appropriate feats), though I do worry that being a professional athlete might instead be covered by a Profession skill that would be cross-class for a fighter.

[Telonius]

Outside of maneuvers and stances, there are maybe two Bonus Fighter Feats that would be at all useful for anything I'm ever likely to need to do. Daunting Presence, and maybe Throw Anything (if I want to impress somebody at an axe-throwing range). The rest is for making attacks and avoiding people who are attacking me. Both of those things are an extremely rare occurrence for me.

[Feantar]

The only sort of world changing thing I can think of without going the wizard route is that, if mundane max level is 5 then, with the education feat, you could have knowledge skills with 20 ranks. You'd probably be able to usher a new Era in the sciences. Or maybe philosophy. Or the arts. Or something worthwhile anyway.

Or you could abandon all that and punch things really hard. :P You could essentially be an action hero from a movie in real life. People would still be able to kill you, it would just be difficult to do so.

[GrayDeath]

I would become the u7ltimate renessaince Football (THe English kind^^) Player: Be the best at athletically running around and kicking balls into goals AND the best at one or two (depending on attributes) Sciences. Really, CLass Skills or no (and there are feats to make them Class Skills), with Level 20 I could be rich, famous, do something worthwhile AND enjoy myself doing so.

Nice gig. :D

[Nifft]

Almost everything even halfway useful so far seems to be a non-Fighter ability which could be taken by anyone with lots of HD.

Like, sure you can take a Dragonmark or 23 ranks of Craft, but so can anyone else.

I feel like an Expert would beat a Fighter in most of these areas -- except the one guy talking about using BAB for Olympic archery, that seems pretty much Fighter-centric in addition to being useful. But it's starkly alone in that.


Class Features:
- You have a buttload of HP. You can reliably jump out of an airplane and expect to walk away from wherever you land. You have a job as a stuntman if you want to do that sort of thing often.


Fighter skills:
- Intimidate might be legitimately valuable, depending on how you live.
- Handle Animal and Ride might make you a stellar performer... though you'd lack Perform so maybe not. You could be a jockey, perhaps, if you were small enough.
- 23 ranks of Jump might put you in the Olympics, so you've got Archery + Long Jump. Your coach may remark that you've got suspiciously flat variance between your max and min distance, even if you've got a superb overall distance.
- Run + Endurance might put you in some events? Not sure how D&D running compares to reality.
- You get Craft but not Profession or Knowledge. No jobs but crafting for you.


Martial Initiate:
- One Desert Wind maneuver + Martial Stance (Flame's Blessing) gets you Tumble and fire resistance, which might be useful for a firefighter.
- One Setting Sun maneuver + one White Raven maneuver gets you Sense Motive + Diplomacy, which would be useful for anyone involved in negotiation -- if you have enough points to max out both skills. Taken together, these two feats make you almost as powerful as an Expert.
- One Shadow Hand maneuver gets you Hide, which may open up career options in less-savory directions -- especially in combo with the standard-action teleport that you got from the feat.


... and most of those things can be done better by other classes, even by some NPC classes. Fighters kinda suck.

[Lapak]

The only sort of world changing thing I can think of without going the wizard route is that, if mundane max level is 5 then, with the education feat, you could have knowledge skills with 20 ranks. You'd probably be able to usher a new Era in the sciences. Or maybe philosophy. Or the arts. Or something worthwhile anyway.

Or you could abandon all that and punch things really hard. :P You could essentially be an action hero from a movie in real life. People would still be able to kill you, it would just be difficult to do so.
I was coming to say these. People saying fighters don't have enough skills are underestimating what 23 ranks in any one skill is worth as a real-world equivalent. Intimidation and Craft are both class skills where being literally the best in the world could go a long way and Education opens up further doors. A Fighter 20 with a positive INT mod could easily be a globally recognized Renaissance man who is a master sculptor, the greatest theoretical physicist in the world, an Olympic gold medalist in fencing, wrestling, boxing, archery and shooting, and known for being witty enough to cut down or cow his critics with a few well-chosen words.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Maneuvers and stances, I'll grant, as they are actually fighter feats, and some of them actually have some real use and relevance, such as teleportation. But using stuff like soulmelds and cross-class skills (and even magic items) probably shouldn't be viable, as they aren't actually fighter-relevant. The same should probably go for anything that isn't a masterwork weapon or armor, since they get Craft as a skill.

I'd suggest keeping it to what fighters get natively, else you could just use their non-fighter feats for L9 spellcasting and act like a wizard.

[Gnaeus]

Maneuvers and stances, I'll grant, as they are actually fighter feats, and some of them actually have some real use and relevance, such as teleportation. But using stuff like soulmelds and cross-class skills (and even magic items) probably shouldn't be viable, as they aren't actually fighter-relevant. The same should probably go for anything that isn't a masterwork weapon or armor, since they get Craft as a skill.

I'd suggest keeping it to what fighters get natively, else you could just use their non-fighter feats for L9 spellcasting and act like a wizard.


What do you do? Does this change your life in any notable way? Does a level 20 fighter have powers, via his feats, hp, etc., to be a world-changing figure? To even make his own life more comfortable?

Optimize the heck out of it, as long as your item choices enhance "being a fighter" rather than substituting for "not being a wizard." You've otherwise been given free reign to design your build as a straight Fighter 20, and to then use that power as you wish in the real world.

Yes. Level 20 fighters have powers to be world changing figures. No, they don’t need to use WBL to do it. The only limits he put on it is item choice, presumably to avoid 11 ranks of cross class UMD and a bunch of wands. Spell like abilities, dragonmarks, heritages and incarna are totally legit. We were in fact told to optimize the heck out of it.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Yes. Level 20 fighters have powers to be world changing figures. No, they don’t need to use WBL to do it. The only limits he put on it is item choice, presumably to avoid 11 ranks of cross class UMD and a bunch of wands. Spell like abilities, dragonmarks, heritages and incarna are totally legit. We were in fact told to optimize the heck out of it.Unless you're using ACFs, why not just use warrior instead? It's not like fighter would have any more relevance than the "official" NPC class.

[Gnaeus]

Unless you're using ACFs, why not just use warrior instead? It's not like fighter would have any more relevance than the "official" NPC class.

A warrior 20 would also be a world changing figure. I wasn’t asked that. The loss of 6 ToB feats and some HP would be sad but wouldn’t change much.

I think the difference here is that you see the question as “does the fighter class offer significant amounts to cosmic world changing power at 20” (answer, not a whole lot) and I see it as “would any PC 20 have world changing power in real world if built for that” (yes, as would commoner 20)

[Segev]

I like the uses of fighter bonus feats, even to dip into other subsystems. I'm...okay...with the other subsystem-dipping feats, but they're skirting the edge. Using them in conjunction with well-chosen fighter bonus feats makes it more in line with what I was asking.

This is likely the first in a chain of threads on various classes. I thought I'd start with the Fighter because it would highlight the areas where we go "off model" to borrow from other classes. And yes, I mostly wanted to avoid "well, Commoner 20 can also have UMD 10 and a box of wands!" type builds. Gear to enhance "being fighter-y" is great, and I didn't want to restrict things that are key to fighter-optimizations.

I also framed it as "you" being the Fighter 20 because I am curious how people would use whatever they build for themselves in their own lives. And if you want to use a Fighter ACF or few, go for it! They're definitely Fighter features!

[Nifft]

I like the uses of fighter bonus feats, even to dip into other subsystems. I'm...okay...with the other subsystem-dipping feats, but they're skirting the edge. Using them in conjunction with well-chosen fighter bonus feats makes it more in line with what I was asking.

These threads are going to yield dumb results if you're not going to take any steps to separate the ultra-generic "having 20 HD" and "level 20 WBL" abilities from what the class provides.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Well, the first thing I would do as a fighter 20 would be a full character rebuild into a full-caster. That's a thing that all characters can do, and so it's apparently fully within the rules. Having nearly 50% dead levels and absolutely no class features or skills to speak of, and all of the interesting feats belonging to other class systems is boring. To get any real use out of the fighter, you have to actually start parasitizing from other classes, which is just sad.

[Gnaeus]

These threads are going to yield dumb results if you're not going to take any steps to separate the ultra-generic "having 20 HD" and "level 20 WBL" abilities from what the class provides.

These threads are going to yield dumb results if you separate having 20 HD abilities from what the class provides. A fighter who isn’t dipping into subsystems or taking feats to do superhuman stuff is by definition poorly optimized. One who is is doing stuff a commoner can do, a little better.

Come to think about it, doing stuff a commoner can do, a little better could be written in PHB under fighter.

[chimaeraUndying]

Well, the first thing I would do as a fighter 20 would be a full character rebuild into a full-caster.

Problem with that: without WBL, I'd assert that you're stuck paying for it with real-world materials, and completely retraining 20 levels is gonna cost a lot of gold.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Problem with that: without WBL, I'd assert that you're stuck paying for it with real-world materials, and completely retraining 20 levels is gonna cost a lot of gold.Use my full ranks in Jump to join the Special Olympics and leap my way to riches? Just retrain one level, become a caster, use that to make a ton of money by proving that magic exists (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_prizes_for_evidence_of_the_paranormal), then use that money to rebuild everything.

It'd be a bit of a work in progress without WBL, but it'd be my main goal.

[2D8HP]

...He'd make a good firefighter, I guess, able to run into fires, survive the heat and the smoke, and pull people out again......


Unfortunately being a professional Firefighter would be out as I don't think my age addled mind could hack the academic work required.


....If I wanted a life of luxury, working demolition or construction. Between high strength and durability, could probably do work a lot faster than others, so get bad a comparable wage for a little bit of work. (Sort of like some supers in the Grrlpower comic do construction or other utility work.)


I've was a construction worker for over a decade, and I can definitely see how having the abilities of a 20th level Fighter would help, but "a life of luxury"?

I don't see how.

For cash, being a celebrity athlete seems to have more potential for income, and when I think about it, "being Bruce Wayne is Batman's bigger superpower", the money I could earn doing that could do more good in the world (if directed right) than any of the physical abilities could directly.

[tyckspoon]

These threads are going to yield dumb results if you're not going to take any steps to separate the ultra-generic "having 20 HD" and "level 20 WBL" abilities from what the class provides.

This is a pretty solid point. Sure, a Fighter can be a better combatant or athlete than just about anybody the real world has ever seen before, but he's doing that based largely on his raw stats. Which means any other full BAB class can be just about as good a boxer or MMA fighter (or anything that could arguably involve attack rolls) and anybody with 20 hit dice can have 23 ranks in a skill and be impossibly good at a class skill or merely freakishly good at a cross-class. Likewise, anybody with 20 hit dice has a minimum number of feats that will grant access to significant supernatural powers like Tome of Battle, Incarnum, and Binding if desired. So the question for the Fighter really needs to be "What abilities can we access with Fighter Bonus Feats or ACFs that are not achievable just by being a level 20 Commoner?" And the answer really ought to be something other than "Fight better and hit harder", because the full BAB level 20 character is already better at that than any living Earth creature just by virtue of having 20 HD and 20 BAB. Making him better at those things with feat selections is enough for D&D, where he needs them to compete with dragons and high-class demons and the like, but I don't think it presents a notable distinction in 'real' Earth where he's already so far ahead of the norm.



I've was a construction worker for over a decade, and I can definitely see how having the abilities of a 20th level Fighter would help, but "a life of luxury"?

Depends on exactly what you're capable of doing, I suppose. If you're just one guy who can do the manual labor of three men, that's nice, but it's probably not gonna get you paid the worth of three men (probably closer to 1.5.) If you're one guy who can do the work of heavy construction equipment, now you're quite possibly worth your weight in gold to the right job - especially if you can do that work without requiring the support structure of heavy equipment. Figure up the cost of transporting and operating something like a backhoe or front-end loader in the middle of nowhere, then compare it to the cost and salary of paying one dude say half that much to go out there and dig up/break down mass quantities of dirt and rock by hand, plus give him some extra for being his own security.. construction company saves huge amounts of money, single dude gets a significant payment (for one person, it should be enough to live quite well/only have to work when you want to, although probably not 'World's 100 Richest Businessmen' levels of wealth), everybody's happy.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Basically, a level 20 fighter without copious amounts of magical gear and magic buffs and stealing from other, effectual systems is a watered-down version of The Hulk without Bruce Banner to even him out.

[rmnimoc]

Just chiming in to point out that the max damage done by a stick of dynamite (according to d20 modern at least) is 48 (12x4) damage, with an additional 12 max per 1/2 lb stick up to 240 damage. Without the crit, that's only 60 damage max, but if you assume an average fighter has around 120hp then an average fighter has around a 15% chance to die from an explosion of 10 pounds of dynamite (the same as their chance to die from a direct hit from a M72A3 LAW). Since TnT is a bit weaker than dynamite, but still fairly close, we can use this as a decent guess to figure out what an average level 20 fighter can tank. The answer is significantly more than an average human and significantly less than you'd need to facetank any artillery currently in use by any major world power. That said, those are worst case scenarios, ones where they crit and also deal max damage. A level 20 fighter can, on average, survive 21 pounds of C4 a little under 50% of the time (44d6) if they're naked, have no feats, and don't try to dodge. Since C4 has a reflex save of 18, the fighter could sucessfully dodge half the damage around 40% of the time if they tried. If a fighter wasn't unlucky, they could reasonably tank about as much as, well, a tank. Anything you could reasonably expect the crew of an Abrams to survive it then you could expect your average naked featless level 20 fighter to as well. For one hit anyway.

Just thought I'd share that. Obviously this is dependent on build and optimization.

Personally I'd probably just make sure I've got Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Bull Rush, Jotunbrud, and Combat Stability as feats and then start my way up to the top in Fighters get so many feats by level 20 that I honestly don't know what I'd do with most of them. For items I'd probably just want some general survivability stuff. Probably burn a good chunk of my wealth on a slotless version of a Ring of Regeneration, but other than that I don't really know.

[Gnaeus]

So the question for the Fighter really needs to be "What abilities can we access with Fighter Bonus Feats or ACFs that are not achievable just by being a level 20 Commoner?" And the answer really ought to be something other than "Fight better and hit harder", because the full BAB level 20 character is already better at that than any living Earth creature just by virtue of having 20 HD and 20 BAB. Making him better at those things with feat selections is enough for D&D, where he needs them to compete with dragons and high-class demons and the like, but I don't think it presents a notable distinction in 'real' Earth where he's already so far ahead of the norm.

Gods, why?

If all it is is a question “what couldn’t we achieve as a commoner 20” then all it is is a “Why fighters suck” thread, and we have had plenty of those.

Heck, even fighting doesn’t qualify. A commoner 20 can take his 10 BAB, 50ish HP, and club proficiency, walk into any dojo in the world, and play best 2 out of 3 with the master using a folding chair as an improvised weapon. He can pick up a weapon he has never used before and outfight special forces members trained in their use. With no WBL at all, and if we can use WBL solely for stat buff items, which seems well within OP, his margin expands much farther, when his stats become 16, 16, 16, 17, 17, 22 or better.

Yeah, a fighter would outfight them by a wider margin. A fighter can take a headshot from an artillery round instead of the commoner who can only take one from a sniper rifle. Big deal.

Commoner 20 has 60 skill points minimum. Expert 6 with 16 Int has 60. Commoner 20 can pick a range of skills and be as good as a world top expert, or fewer and be better at them.

Yeah, a rogue 20 has 180 skill points. But even he isn’t doing anything the commoner 20 cant do. Just doing it in more areas.

If it’s just a measure of comparing classes, I will refer you to any number of tier threads. It will be functionally unchanged. If you take away skills and fighting, which you get as much as you need from being 20, all that’s left is duplicating casting via feats. Take THAT away and it’s a straightforward exercise in exploring class spell lists.

Forgive me. What could a character 20 do without being a full caster is interesting to me. What could a character 20 do without using the abilities and feats common to level 20 characters is a sad exercise in Tiering that looks even worse than usual for weaker classes.

[PunBlake]

I'd say the best potential career change for a Fighter 20 would be an astronaut. It requires military training (high BAB), the ability to pass physical training (Endurance, high Fort save), and specialized knowledge (Education feat and skill ranks). That'd be what I'd do if I woke up a Fighter 20, anyway.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

If I was stuck as a level 20 fighter and got regular WBL and a full complement of feats out of the deal, I'd take as many useful ACFs as possible (there really aren't that many useful ones that an unaugmented human can take, but they're still more useful than most fighter bonus feats, though that's not saying much), and I'd focus a lot on feats that grant magic stuff, focusing on magically enhancing an illithid humanoid skin graft, so I could never lose most of my magic item effects. Turn my skin into a Words of Creation'd (ML 8) sanctified psychoactive skin of proteus with a magically expanded, grafted 'possum pouch, for instance, with gloves of the master strategist linked to it so I can shrink and store a huge number of things in my Gamer-esque inventory, then call them to hand as a free action. Item Familiar, Ancestral Relic, and Landlord to create magic items using my feats. (For Landlord, build a small shack of some sort, use Landlord to turn it into a magic item that can change shape, proceed to add a ton of magic item effects, and use it as a magically-transfigured multitool self-buffing weapon, via metalline, sizing, and morphing, along with lots of other interesting magical effects. 800,000 gp's worth of effects prior to further expenditures would come in quite handy.)

I'd ensure my magic items made up for the fact that without them, I can't do much that's useful or interesting. Focus on my mental stats and Constitution to ensure that I'm competent and tough enough to get through just about anything. Do my best to get as many class skills and skill points as I can through magic items and feats, for the same reason.

So I'd basically act as a super-tough shapeshifter with cool inventory powers and a magical body. Few of the abilities I'd use regularly would actually come from being a fighter, with only HP, dungeon crasher, Intimidate, and a few ToB feats being the only real class features having an impact, since everything else from the class would act as millstones I'd have to work around.

[Slayn82]

I'd say the best potential career change for a Fighter 20 would be an astronaut. It requires military training (high BAB), the ability to pass physical training (Endurance, high Fort save), and specialized knowledge (Education feat and skill ranks). That'd be what I'd do if I woke up a Fighter 20, anyway.

Have an Internet for the insight. Buck Rogers and Flash Gordon were BIG, BIG HEROES in the times of Pulp. And their stick was being heroic explorers of space.

Speaking of Pulp, the original Super Fighters was John Carter. John Carter was the Super Athlete warrior (but well, anyone for Earth was Super strong on Mars... Superman's concept was just Alien John Carter on Earth).

[noce]

Spend relevant ranged feats and you get the gold medal with Olympic bow.
A feat for exotic proficiency with rifle and that's another gold medal at Olympic.
Spend all your skills on swim and jump, and you get several more gold medals and world records.

Now just enjoy being the best sportsman that ever lived (and do advertisements).

[Silva Stormrage]

Frankly a lot of what I would do would be to try and optimize profession/knowledge checks. Sure fighter's aren't that great at that but at level 20 you can get a 40 on your check easily. Thats enough to be revolutionary in pretty much any field you want.

Sure it's cross class but there are feats around that. Skill Prodigy if KoK is considered allowed.

Then spend your fighter bonus feats on manuvers and such. The healing stance/maneuver from Devoted Spirit would be useful as would Iron Heart Surge.


So ya the fighter chassis still wouldn't help much for that but if regular humans cap at ~ level 5 for the top of the field? I would just select profession/knowledge (Computer Science/AI Researcher) or whatever the appropriate skill would be and go from there.

[Troacctid]

Fighters are incentivized to go tall with feat chains and synergistic abilities because of the game's combat focus. In real life, that incentive isn't there, so I think you want to go wide and focus on a diverse suite of abilities. So I'd use my feats and gear to improve abilities other than fighting.

Of course even in the "go tall" build it's still optimal to go wide with WBL and pick up items that improve versatility in other areas. If you're spending 200k on armor and weapons then you're doing it wrong IMO.

One thing I'll definitely note is that the Thug variant dominates this scenario. The extra skills are vastly more valuable than a single feat.

[Kelb_Panthera]

I'mma go straight to the top of every cage fighting circuit I can get into, ASAP. A level 20 fighter is astonishingly better at fighting than any RL person ever could be. It'd be a struggle to keep it from looking like a pro-fighter beating up on small children even against current champions.

[Vizzerdrix]

Hmm... so I assume i get my human and hd feats as well. Well you are gonna hate this, but Id use those to grab mark of xoriat, troll blooded, and that one feat that gives a few cantrips. Mending is just too nice to not have. Id save tons on clothes if I could just keep my jeans repaired. May be outside the spirit of the exercise, but I dont give a sip (saw that on a mug at work). Maybe tracking. I could use that for... stuff :smallredface:

Skills! The fun stuff. Max cc ranks in that dream manipulating skill is a must. Some in healing, survival, a few tossed into crafts (like alchemy!) and a few in knowledges. Spread it around. The big one is profession. Jumping from nil to 20 would allow for instant training in something much better paying than current job.

FBFs. Ranged focus. Crossbows. Also the pathfinder battle poi. Not a pathfinder exercise? Dont care. Battle poi. BATTLE POI IS LIFE!

Gear. Shapesand. Shapesand all the way. And some healing belts. Folding boat would be nice. I could pick gear all day long. Aiming for strange, kooky stuff, like the vermin amulets, or that whistle that makes zombies. That could be fun too, AND be great for Halloween!

[Segev]

The purpose here isn't tiering. Just making sure that, essentially, you're not playing "meh, fighter's suck; I'll pretend to be something else."

I'm liking a lot of what I'm seeing. The "go sporty, do endorsements" thing, and the "be a performer with Ride and such" stuff makes me think of Arnold Schwarzenegger and Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson and their acting careers. Being the worlds top fighter in every field would certainly let you write your own check for an acting career if they're any indication.

I love the Astronaut insight.

I wonder: is Fighter 20 "tame" enough that some of us would just stick with the lives we have now, enjoying the increased health of higher Con and Str and Fort saves but otherwise...shrugging and sticking with what we're already doing? Or is waking up as a Fighter 20 sufficiently life-changing that pretty much none of us would stay in our current rutts?

[Celestia]

Full wealth by level? That's (if I remember correctly) 760,000 gp. Gold coins weigh 1/10 of a pound. 76,000 pounds of gold is worth (roughly) $1.5 billion. So, what would I do if I suddenly woke up as a 20th level fighter? I'd buy an island and retire in luxury.

[Segev]

Full wealth by level? That's (if I remember correctly) 760,000 gp. Gold coins weigh 1/10 of a pound. 76,000 pounds of gold is worth (roughly) $1.5 billion. So, what would I do if I suddenly woke up as a 20th level fighter? I'd buy an island and retire in luxury.:smallbiggrin:

Okay, fair enough. I should have been more explicit that I really was thinking in terms of gear to augment "being a fighter" (or at least, "being an adventurer") rather than straight-up gold. But buying an island and populating it with followers is pretty valid for a fighter. I mean, in 1e AD&D, "build a keep and rule it like a lord" was one of the mid-level goals of the game for the class!

[Troacctid]

I think the more interesting way to approach it is to focus on just the class features (i.e. ignore the WBL and non-bonus feats). In this case, which bonus feats (and ACFs) would you take?

Martial Study and Martial Stance seem like no-brainers, but what are the best maneuvers and stances to pick? You can only get three maneuvers total! Shadow Jaunt is an obvious choice for a maneuver, and Dance of the Spider is a good follow-up stance. Other stances I might have my eye on include Hunter's Sense for scent, Martial Spirit for healing, Leaping Dragon Stance for stupid jumping powers, Flame's Blessing for fire resistance, or Hearing the Air for super hearing.

The Combat Focus line seems solid. Combat Vigor is a rare source of self-healing, and once you have that, you may as well get Combat Awareness for super triage.

Of course you get some free investment in self-defense. Improved Unarmed Strike seems like a great choice because you'll never be unarmed and you can always deal nonlethal damage. Combat Expertise becomes really good because "not getting hurt" is usually going to be your primary objective, so it's basically a free +5 AC, and Improved Combat Expertise is seriously legit. Daunting Presence is normally pretty bad, but it actually seems like a great self-defense feat in real life, allowing you to force attackers to run away by combining it with demoralize checks to escalate shaken to frightened.

EDIT: Let's not forget the Dead Levels (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cwc/20061013a) abilities! I would go for an extra +9 to Constitution checks for running and forced marches!

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Full wealth by level? That's (if I remember correctly) 760,000 gp. Gold coins weigh 1/10 of a pound. 76,000 pounds of gold is worth (roughly) $1.5 billion. So, what would I do if I suddenly woke up as a 20th level fighter? I'd buy an island and retire in luxury.While I would definitely retire with $1.5B, if given the option, I'd go after the magic items. I mean, you can get money in other ways, especially, especially if magic is available. Magic itself, though? Utterly priceless.

After all, how much does unlimited shapeshifting cost? Effective invulnerability? Immortality? The ability to heal with a touch? The ability to, quite literally, create money?

[Velaryon]

I'd put a lot of my WBL into boosting all 6 ability scores, preferably with unobtrusive items that I can keep on my person without drawing much attention. I don't feel like crunching numbers right now, but that should be more than enough to make me elite, possibly the best ever, at any athletic pursuit I choose, as well as being a super genius and extremely personable and influential. And let's throw in a Ring of Regeneration to help deal with any injuries that I sustain in the course of what comes next.

I'd also want to squeeze the most out of my skill points, so I'm following Troacctid's advice and taking the Thug Fighter variant. I might even nab Able Learner so I can spend freely. I probably would not put max ranks into many skills, as I would prefer breadth of competency over being more better at one thing than everyone else.

Between raw ability scores and putting at least a few points into skills like Jump, Swim, Tumble, etc. I should be athletically gifted enough to succeed at pretty much any combination of sports that I'm interested in. I'll take a page from SimonMoon6 and Kelb_Panthera here and just sweep through various professional sports and combat sports leagues to make a name for myself as a general all-around badass. Then I'd parlay that fame and my magically boosted charisma into a couple acting roles just to tick a few things off my bucket list and establish some nice connections.

The rest of my feats would go into things to generally increase my all-around athletic ability and unarmed combat prowess. I'm away from books right now so I'm not going to delve into too many specifics.

Then it's time to use that accumulated wealth and influence to start having real fun. :smallbiggrin:

[Dimers]

I would grab and throw back bullets with my bare hands once every six seconds. :smallamused:

Greater Manyshot and Versatile Unarmed Strike would also be pretty damn impressive to realworlders.

EDIT: Oh, and skill tricks. Definitely skill tricks.
EDIT EDIT: Dragonscale Husk sounds awfully nice too -- that's an actual honest-to-god benefit for staying in-class.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Hmm. Do we need to remain human? 'Cuz I wouldn't mind being a great wyrm prismatic dragon fighter 20, especially with the aforementioned psychoactive illithid humanoid skin graft of proteus to look human when desired.

[Hand_of_Vecna]

I feel like my answers could be summed up as fighters have more fun.

The build for me has to be Thug/Zhentarim Fighter to get those sweet skill points and class skills.

My first instinct was to rise to the top of MMA and possibly football as well and eventually use that as a launching point for politics (Diplomacy from Zhentarim). I'll still do those things using a possibly slotless Hat of Disguise to create a persona for my other activities.

What did you want to be when you were a kid? Me, I wanted to be the Godfather. I didn't have a perfect grasp of the extortion side of organized crime. My image was mainly formed by bits like the frogfather vignette from muppet babies. My image was mainly of a character who walked around with everyone knowing and deferring to him, getting free canoli, always having a table available for him, and listening to and resolving people's problems often with a single gesture to an underling.

Zhent fighter's extended intimidate would actually be really useful to building and running a criminal/vigilante empire so I'm actually using a class ability :smallsmile: Aside from that, ya it would just be skills and 20 HD.

[Azoth]

It really is a shame you can't combine Thug with Elemental Warrior. Elemental Warrior eats up all but 1 of your fighter bonus feats but give you some nice stuff in exchange (SR, Evasion, Heavy Fortification, energy resistance, two variable SLA's, and an on/off for bonus elemental damage.) It still works with Zhentarim Fighter and the dead levels though.

Combining it with Resolute (giving up your last fighter bonus feat) and Dragonscale Husk would give a strong boost to Will saves and a second source of energy resistance.

The end result is a scary Juggernaut that is all but impervious to most anything modern combat can throw at him.

Use some Imperius Command with it and that is one scary Warlord capable of carving out a kingdom for himself. That is without using feats to dip into other subsystems or steal other class's schticks.

[Mystral]

Your best bet to make your life more comfortable would lie in the realm of sports. As a level 20 fighter, you have a skill cap of 23 and climb, jump and swim as class skills, as well as a base fortitude saving throw of +12. The high bab and the bonus feats would allow you to specialise in a sport of your choice that doesn't require that much skill and teamwork and become the number one in the world overnight.

Take your choice. Boxing would propably be the obvious choice, as you get to make good use of your fighting abilities and there is a lot of money to be made. Just remember to make your magical items hard to detect or spend the money for attribute increasing tomes, or they might catch you cheating.

[Segev]

Wouldn’t football or another high-profile pro sport be more lucrative than boxing or the like?

[Azoth]

There is a M1 Global MMA division known as M1 Medieval. The fights are basically Knight Fights. Armor, shields, swords, ect. Perfect profession for a fighter 20.

[Seharvepernfan]

Well. Let's say elite array? Str 10, Dex 20, Con 8, Int 14, Wis 12, Cha 13, before items.

Balance 16, Bluff 11, Climb 20, Diplomacy 21, Intimidate 18, Jump 19, Open Lock 13, Sense Motive 14, Spot 22, Survival 11, Swim 12, after items

PBS, Precise Shot, Far Shot, Rapid Shot, Improved Precise Shot, TWF, ITWF, GTWF, Quick Draw, Weapon Finesse, Dodge (probably expeditious), Mobility, Shot on the Run, Combat Expertise, Improved Disarm, Improved Trip, Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Grapple, Improved Initiative
edit: able learner instead of improved trip? would free up tons of skill points

+5 Adamantine Holy Firearms (a few different ones), +1 Distance Humanbane Collision Adamantine Bullets (for each gun)
-probably two pistols and a good rifle
+1 Warning "Gauntlet" (something worn over glove)
+5 glammered nimble invulnerable plate carrier (glassteel plates) + kevlar
-greater silent moves/shadowed if budget allows
+1 collision adamantine light hammer
one of each ability score booster +6 (invisible circlet, amulet, short invisible cloak, gloves [also fearsome grip], belt [str], vest [con])
ring of protection +5
ring of free movement
armbands of might
Nightvision Goggles of the Eagle
invisible pale green prism ioun stone, invisible dusty rose prism, stone of good luck
boots of striding/springing/speed
a /day item of greater invisibility & silence
a /day item of pass without trace & hide from animals
a /day item of ironguard
a /day item of disguise self
a /day item of reduce person
a /day item of water breathing
a /day item of tongues
a /day item of fly/spider climb/jump
/day dimension door? /day ghostform? /day forcecage?
sure would be great to have a greater teleport item, but that's probably too much for the budget
-ive got a few hundred thousand to work with, im sure I could at least get use-activated items with some charges or potions/elixirs if nothing else
MW thieves tools, climbers kit, a variety of real-life mundane items (frags, flashbangs, etc)
mages haversack, maybe portable hole instead or in addition

With this, I could do pretty much whatever I wanted. Immense wealth, take down bad guys, get powerful in politics/business, travel where I please, etc.

edit: +item of fast healing 1, duh

[Eldariel]

The first thing that occurs to me is just pulling off incredible stunts. You can swim in lava, survive orbital re-entry, hit deadeye from 2000' away with a composite bow (probably further with a firearm) 95% of the time, etc. You could obviously easily become a millionaire with such talents if you feel so inclined. You would also be unbelievable in any kinds of high risk rescue endeavours. Far as power goes, obviously Diplomacy would just be the strongest option available. You can make friends of anyone and talk people around in anything. 23 ranks + 6 synergy is already +29 and you can easily afford some Cha and feats to improve it. Get Intimidate, Diplomacy and Bluff in class (Thug, Zhent and some feat) and you're a ridiculous social powerhouse. Add to that maxed Sense Motive (feat it) and you're just a walking lie detector with everything related to that. You don't even need any Int to accomplish any of that, but you could take Keen Intellect as your 1st level feat to also max Int and afford a ton of skill points. I'm just going to ignore magic items since what you can do with them is basically sky-is-the-limit.

[Azoth]

If you had Troll Blooded and Steadfast determination you could do a traveling act as the "Unkillable Man". Let people shoot you, drink poison like it was a glass of water, or set endurance records like a champ.

[tterreb]

I'd probably take up pro baseball. Use that 20 BAB for both batting and pitching, power attack and the point blank shot chain for my feats. No real need for skill points.

[khadgar567]

Actually you dont do a thing in your life as you the fighter is rich beyond your imagination since d&d relies on gold as currency thus you have 2 or 3 million gold needed to exchanged back to usd cash than grabing knowledge and skill feats you are gonna be swiming cash Scrooge mc duck style thanks to gold being good exchange rate in market every time.

[Telonius]

I wonder: is Fighter 20 "tame" enough that some of us would just stick with the lives we have now, enjoying the increased health of higher Con and Str and Fort saves but otherwise...shrugging and sticking with what we're already doing? Or is waking up as a Fighter 20 sufficiently life-changing that pretty much none of us would stay in our current rutts?

Aside from Tome of Battle (and one or two of the regular Fighter feats), Fighter just doesn't give me much "value added" over what you could get from an Expert, an Aristocrat, or even a Commoner. (Commoner at least has Profession as a class skill, and if I'm still nearsighted and hard of hearing after converting to Fighter 20 I'd really like those skills in Listen and Spot). Using weapons and hitting things accurately (sports etc) just isn't fun for me. It doesn't help me do the things I'd really want to do.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

scourge mc duckThis is hilarious. Is he Scrooge's mirror of opposition clone?

[Vizzerdrix]

Aside from Tome of Battle (and one or two of the regular Fighter feats), Fighter just doesn't give me much "value added" over what you could get from an Expert, an Aristocrat, or even a Commoner. (Commoner at least has Profession as a class skill, and if I'm still nearsighted and hard of hearing after converting to Fighter 20 I'd really like those skills in Listen and Spot). Using weapons and hitting things accurately (sports etc) just isn't fun for me. It doesn't help me do the things I'd really want to do.

Well, you could always grab a portable hole and a HHH. A few other choice items for survivability. Slap them extra dimensional hams together and be off to explore the multiverse! Maybe learn a thing or two about casting, or get a tastey template.

Id want the spell stitched template, seeing as I qualify for it. Ive worked at walmart for 14 years. Trust me, I am quite dead inside.

[Andor13]

Well, waking up as a fighter 20 means you are the toughest SOB on Earth. Which is great but not actually useful unless you are the star of "Ow! My balls."

The limitations on "What do you do with your feats and WBL" are interesting, but problematic. In D&D a 20th level fighters job is "be able to engage with, and deal massive damage to high CR foes like Dragons and Demons, etc" or possibly something more tricky like "attempt BFC by being a trip monkey." These things do not have RL applications, although some of the abilities you need to meet those job descriptions do. I would never build a high-level fighter who can't fly out of his own abilities or items for example, because how else do you do your job? Likewise FoM.

You would make a great James Bond (as James Bond is a terrible secret agent, his plan is to always walk into the room, shout "I'm James Bond" and then beat his way to the boss, because he's an unstoppable fighter.)

The trouble is that the only thing that Fighter 20 offers over Commoner 20, is some feats, and since Cleave and Power Attack are not actually things we need IRL the best thing you can do with those feats is to buy powers from other ability lines like Soulmelds or ToB. Now, there are useful soulmelds, and maneuvers so yes, being a fighter can be better than being a commoner.

If you mean those limitations to mean we're supposed to actually act like a fighter, then I suppose the only RW thing to do would be to murder-hobo your way through every organized crime syndicate/gang/whatever you can find and either take over, or just pocket the loot, or donate it to charity depending on your alignment. It's worth noting that an even slightly competent 20th level fighter is going to be significantly stronger than a low level super hero like Deadpool or Batman.

[Telonius]

Soulmelds are great, but Shape Soulmeld isn't a bonus Fighter feat. Unless we're Chaos Shuffling the fighter feats to be whatever feats we want, Fighter doesn't have any particular access to them that other classes don't.

[khadgar567]

This is hilarious. Is he Scrooge's mirror of opposition clone?
ha ha ha thanks for catching my mistake there.
edit continuing from where i left ounce of gold coin currently goes 1242$ so our fighter at 20th level gets 760.000 gold. with bit of math we get 943.920.000$ as final amount of real world money we have so so roughly 1 billion dolar money is i think enough to get into stock market with some training and few feats we can live our lives what ever we want.

[Troacctid]

Aside from Tome of Battle (and one or two of the regular Fighter feats), Fighter just doesn't give me much "value added" over what you could get from an Expert, an Aristocrat, or even a Commoner. (Commoner at least has Profession as a class skill, and if I'm still nearsighted and hard of hearing after converting to Fighter 20 I'd really like those skills in Listen and Spot).
Blind-fight?

I do know some of the variant fighters from Dragon #310 have Spot and Listen.

[Quertus]

So, if it were me? Honestly, not much would change. Unless I could cheat my skills (Able Learner, maybe?) to boost more relevant skills that I already have into the stratosphere. Because I'm not one for fighting, or the olympics, or even outerspace (I hadn't thought of that one!). If I joined NASA, it would be as a programmer, not an astronaut. And acting is just right out.

Most everything I'd want would be rather non-fighter-y. Regeneration, immortality, luxury. Sure, not taking as much damage from things would be nice. Maneuvers to heal others would be nice (depending on how such healing translates). Sculpt Self is kinda my go-to for spending WBL - athough I'm told that there's a Fighter version of Lichdom that might be worth looking into?

But, honestly, even if it wasn't the D&D Fighter class - even if it was "you wake up with the powers and abilities from the best fighters from your choice of 3 books/movies/whatever all combined", I really have no interest in most of what makes a fighter a fighter.

Sure, I'd be able to catch falling objects better. Throw my trash in the trashcan from a further distance. Survive normally mortal injuries (like picking raspberries :smalltongue:), recover from diseases faster. Rule at sports. But... I just don't really care about most anything else.


I wonder: is Fighter 20 "tame" enough that some of us would just stick with the lives we have now, enjoying the increased health of higher Con and Str and Fort saves but otherwise...shrugging and sticking with what we're already doing? Or is waking up as a Fighter 20 sufficiently life-changing that pretty much none of us would stay in our current rutts?


Full wealth by level? That's (if I remember correctly) 760,000 gp. Gold coins weigh 1/10 of a pound. 76,000 pounds of gold is worth (roughly) $1.5 billion. So, what would I do if I suddenly woke up as a 20th level fighter? I'd buy an island and retire in luxury.

Pretty much this. The most important change, for me, would be wealth. The rest would be minor perks, or something I'd have to min-max into something outside the scope of this thread.

[Elrak]

I agree that not many options appeal to me but if I were to take this on as an exercise that would make sense in RL and still feels “figthery” then I would go with a high stakes hostage negotiator.

Thug variant, able learner, nymphs kiss for skills and bonus to charisma checks at lvl 1. Then as the ftr bonus feat martial study for White raven= diplomacy. After that just max out diplomacy, sense motive, intimidate and bluff and grab as many ToB stances/maneuvers as you like with ftr bonus (ideally IHS and whatever gives health at an early point). This should allow you to get anyone out from a hostage situation and if things escalate you have a way out or can atleast heal yourself and others.

You could further optimize this with the regular feats you get as a lvl 20 char but that feels less like in the spirit of the exercise.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Even with no magic items and no WBL, ACFs, or ToB feats, I'd still accept the deal -- though I'd rather have almost any other build, with only a scant few classes actually being worse.

Why?

Assuming I keep my current knowledge (ie, my current skills won't be overwritten), I wouldn't be any worse off than I am now, and I could take a direct meteor strike to the face and be fine after a few days' rest.

If my skills and knowledge are erased...I dunno. I mean, I've worked hard to get what I've got, and fighters are incompetent at anything that isn't "stick pointy end in monster." And even then they aren't that good at it. Even smart fighters are pretty stupid, since they can't even positively ID their own race via lack of Knowledge skills.*

I suppose becoming an incredibly rich athlete would be pretty darned nice. Certainly less stressful than what I've gone through the last few decades. Become stupid, but rich and happy? Maaaaaybe...



*This would certainly explain where all the hybrid races and templates come from...

[Feantar]

A warrior 20 would also be a world changing figure. I wasn’t asked that. The loss of 6 ToB feats and some HP would be sad but wouldn’t change much.

I think the difference here is that you see the question as “does the fighter class offer significant amounts to cosmic world changing power at 20” (answer, not a whole lot) and I see it as “would any PC 20 have world changing power in real world if built for that” (yes, as would commoner 20)

I'd suggest making a thread based on a commoner. That can show you better results, as every class based thread after the commoner one can be approached as "what can class a do that a commoner cannot in this instance". Also maybe ban non self crafted magic items? I am not sure on that one.

[Raxxius]

Wouldn’t football or another high-profile pro sport be more lucrative than boxing or the like?

Well the best paid sportstars are Footballers and boxers.

A fighter would be unworldy good at either.

4 attacks every 6 seconds would utterly destroy any professional fighter in the real world, not to mention you be able to take an absolute pounding and keep going. Not to mention intimidate to psych out your opponent. Nobody would beat you ever, and with 3.5 age tables you wouldn't even see a diminishment in skills until 35 and then you'd still be the strongest and fittest person in the sport. All the way up to 53.

As for football, endurance, a bab of 20 and exotic weapon proficiency 'Football' and you'd have a better shot than anyone in history. Take combat patrol and combat reflexes and nobody is dribbling past you, also intimidate to psych out opponents. The fact you could play well into your 40's would make you legendary. Real footballers start to burn out at the early 30s.

[Nifft]

I'd suggest making a thread based on a commoner. That can show you better results, as every class based thread after the commoner one can be approached as "what can class a do that a commoner cannot in this instance". Also maybe ban non self crafted magic items? I am not sure on that one.

Then you run into the problem of NPC wealth vs. PC wealth.

Let's start with 20 humanoid HD, wealth for a level 20 PC, and nothing else -- no proficiencies, no class skills, 2+Int skill points per HD, and that's it.

With that as the foundation, we ought to be able to discuss the perks of having an actual race & class.

[Telonius]

Well the best paid sportstars are Footballers and boxers.

A fighter would be unworldy good at either.

4 attacks every 6 seconds would utterly destroy any professional fighter in the real world, not to mention you be able to take an absolute pounding and keep going. Not to mention intimidate to psych out your opponent. Nobody would beat you ever, and with 3.5 age tables you wouldn't even see a diminishment in skills until 35 and then you'd still be the strongest and fittest person in the sport. All the way up to 53.

As for football, endurance, a bab of 20 and exotic weapon proficiency 'Football' and you'd have a better shot than anyone in history. Take combat patrol and combat reflexes and nobody is dribbling past you, also intimidate to psych out opponents. The fact you could play well into your 40's would make you legendary. Real footballers start to burn out at the early 30s.

Boxing is on and off the list of top earners (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forbes%27_list_of_the_world%27s_highest-paid_athletes) per year, but it's inconsistent. They get paid by the bout, not as part of a contract like most other sports; so depending on how big the bout is, a boxer might or might not take home a giant paycheck. Floyd Mayweather topped the list in 2012, 2014, 2015 and 2018, but didn't even make the top 10 in 2013, 2016 or 2017. Football (Soccer) is much more consistent. Ronaldo's been one of the top three on the list since 2014. Golf, Tennis, and Basketball are all up there consistently as well.

They could all go swimming in their cash if they wanted to, so it's just a matter of which one you wanted to do. Or maybe more than one, if you want. If you're a Fighter20, you could be a footballer and defend your boxing title once a year to keep your earnings up.

[Segev]

Boxing is on and off the list of top earners (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forbes%27_list_of_the_world%27s_highest-paid_athletes) per year, but it's inconsistent. They get paid by the bout, not as part of a contract like most other sports; so depending on how big the bout is, a boxer might or might not take home a giant paycheck. Floyd Mayweather topped the list in 2012, 2014, 2015 and 2018, but didn't even make the top 10 in 2013, 2016 or 2017. Football (Soccer) is much more consistent. Ronaldo's been one of the top three on the list since 2014. Golf, Tennis, and Basketball are all up there consistently as well.

They could all go swimming in their cash if they wanted to, so it's just a matter of which one you wanted to do. Or maybe more than one, if you want. If you're a Fighter20, you could be a footballer and defend your boxing title once a year to keep your earnings up.

Heck, you might even be able to pick two sports (I think Baseball and Football have no overlap in their seasons?) to play simultaneously. While maintaining your boxing career. It's not like you need as much practice as those poor, single-digit-level athletes with whom you compete.

[GrayDeath]

And with our accuracy and damage per round, all these mathes would be short KO`s ^^


I am amending my version and adding BOxing to Soccer and "Preffession of my choice/Fun".

[Vizzerdrix]

Hmm... so what would happen if I put points into a craft for something that doesnt exist? Something like craft robot butler, or man portable gauss rifle, or sonic screwdriver? :smallconfused:

[Asmotherion]

This goes both here and for the Barbarian Thread:

Use my overbearing Stats, stamina, athletic skills, ability to take hits, as well as ability to deliver them to win all kinds of Gold Medals in Boxing, Weight Lifting, Martial Arts, Swiming, Marathon etc in the Olympics, World Fame and Loads of Money with it.

With those skills, there would be no competition, and since my skills would be natural, I wouldn't have to worry about Dopping tests.

I would even have to downplay myself in the Fighting competitions, in order not to cause any serious damage by accident.

Then, I'd live the rest of my life rich and famous.

[Troacctid]

Okay, here's my feat progression, I think.

1. Improved Unarmed Strike
2. Martial Study (Burning Blade)
4. Combat Focus
6. Combat Vigor
8. Martial Study (Shadow Jaunt)
10. Martial Stance (Dance of the Spider)
12. Combat Expertise
14. Improved Combat Expertise
16. Martial Stance (Flame's Blessing)
18. Martial Study (Rapid Counter)
20. Martial Stance (Hearing the Air)

Improved Unarmed Strike means I don't need to carry a weapon and I can always deal nonlethal damage without a penalty. Improved Combat Expertise helps me avoid getting hit, which is typically the goal of most fights. Combat Vigor provides healing—if I ever get injured, I can heal a bunch of HP just by squashing a spider. Then for maneuvers, Flame's Blessing allows me to resist fire but more importantly allows me to remain comfortable in extreme heat—take that, hot weather! Shadow Jaunt provides some teleportation, Dance of the Spider lets me climb walls and ceilings like Spider-Man, and Hearing the Air gives me super-hearing.

I'll take Thug with Zhentarim substitutions. My skills will be Tumble, Intimidate, Craft (Visual Art), and Craft (Structural). I'll also spend some ranks in cross-class Speak Language to become fluent in Spanish and ASL, some in Autohypnosis to be able to memorize stuff, and a single rank in Open Lock to be able to use it trained.

[Celestia]

Okay, here's my feat progression, I think.

1. Improved Unarmed Strike
2. Martial Study (Burning Blade)
4. Combat Focus
6. Combat Vigor
8. Martial Study (Shadow Jaunt)
10. Martial Stance (Dance of the Spider)
12. Combat Expertise
14. Improved Combat Expertise
16. Martial Stance (Flame's Blessing)
18. Martial Study (Rapid Counter)
20. Martial Stance (Hearing the Air)

Improved Unarmed Strike means I don't need to carry a weapon and I can always deal nonlethal damage without a penalty. Improved Combat Expertise helps me avoid getting hit, which is typically the goal of most fights. Combat Vigor provides healing—if I ever get injured, I can heal a bunch of HP just by squashing a spider. Then for maneuvers, Flame's Blessing allows me to resist fire but more importantly allows me to remain comfortable in extreme heat—take that, hot weather! Shadow Jaunt provides some teleportation, Dance of the Spider lets me climb walls and ceilings like Spider-Man, and Hearing the Air gives me super-hearing.

I'll take Thug with Zhentarim substitutions. My skills will be Tumble, Intimidate, Craft (Visual Art), and Craft (Structural). I'll also spend some ranks in cross-class Speak Language to become fluent in Spanish and ASL, some in Autohypnosis to be able to memorize stuff, and a single rank in Open Lock to be able to use it trained.
Keep in mind that thug drops your first level feat.

[Troacctid]

Keep in mind that thug drops your first level feat.
Oh, right. Okay, drop Improved Combat Expertise. I can still get -9/+8 without it.

[Quertus]

Don't Fighters get Ride as a class skill?

If I spent all most my money on a dragon mount, does that still count as fighter-y?

[skaddix]

I just play baseball.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

I just play baseball.So does Yamcha, and you know what happened to him (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmNSA9fhBmo).

One thing I forgot to add; my main weapon (y'know, the 800,000+ gp one) will be a riverine -2 cursed sword with sizing and morphing on it, among other things. No sense in possibly losing it or having it be destroyed somehow. I could always have it revert to a poison ring or a pair of fingerless gloves, as needed, whenever I can't leave it at home or something.

[Azoth]

Forgot PF material could be used here. There is a trick in PF that could be useful to achieving more than just sports and punching stuff. Abusing Item Mastery feats (via Bar Room Brawler letting you temporarily gain the one you want/need) to gain SLA's when you need them. This may fall into "pretending to be another class", but most of the effects are limited between 1-3 times a day.

Major effects are Dim Door, Telekinesis, Restoration, Invisibility, and a variety of healing abilities up to Breath of Life.

This makes being stealthy, or being a faith healer, or an actual doctor a bit easier.

Aaptable Training (Advanced Armor Training) can free up some skill points, as can Versitile Training (Advanced Weapon Training). They both allow you to use your BAB in place of skill ranks for a variety of skills.

Mutation Warrior gives you limited daily flight. Eldritch Guardian gets you a Wizard's familiar (which can have their own archetypes for unique abilities of their own).

So while not as world shaking as a Wizard, I don't feel a fighter is relegated to just being a sports star.

[JyP]

- having 1st level fighter class features means I am suddenly able to wield a lot of weapons & all armors - depending on whether we are on D20 Modern or D&D 3.5 not it could mean a real difference there.
- 20th level fighter BAB means a *lot* of accuracy to hit anything, maybe I will take up Olympics on archery, fencing or world paintball championship ^^
Thinking about it, as the fighter has the greater number of martial feats : this is not rendered well through D&D rules, but it could mean each feat is a different martial art - and you could counteract any martial artist with the best martial art against each style... sort of the ultimate technical MMA fighter.

[Segev]

Thinking about it, as the fighter has the greater number of martial feats : this is not rendered well through D&D rules, but it could mean each feat is a different martial art - and you could counteract any martial artist with the best martial art against each style... sort of the ultimate technical MMA fighter.

That'd certainly be a valid way to handle a story-based design. You're right about the mechanics being iffy, but even then, the martial techniques are impressive.