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Yogibear41
2018-08-08, 01:54 AM
You are a high level wizard/cleric, what buff spells do you cast on your ole fighter/barbarian buddy to boost him up?

Heroism, haste, what else? what other buffs to attacks/damage can we cast on other players? (I'm not talking about a self-buffing cleric, I know how to do that)

sleepyphoenixx
2018-08-08, 02:25 AM
They're not really buffs, but Mass Snake's Swiftness, Sakratar's Triple Strike and Dimension Step are favorites. Also the standards: Greater Magic Weapon, Enlarge Person and Greater Mighty Wallop.
The rest is mostly defensive and utility buffs - Death Ward, Freedom of Movement, Ghost Touch Armor, Blur, Blindsight and so on.

Yogibear41
2018-08-08, 02:37 AM
Wow I've never seen the Triple Strike spell mentioned before, that is a pretty nifty one.

Fizban
2018-08-08, 03:00 AM
Define high level.

If I'm a Cleric, I don't leave the house without a Mass Resist Energy and a Mass Shield of Faith. Cleric attack buffs aren't so hot, basically you've got to-hit bonuses (which the Fighter only needs so much of), and various versions of Haste-likes such as Righteous Wrath of the Faithful. Cleric buffs are all about the not dying. Aside from the aforementioned and the various immunity buffs, Spell Resistance is a solid broad spectrum defense against a lot of things, Invest Heavy Protection is some no-gp cost non-personal DR, and Blessing of the Righteous is a quick way to Align all your allies' weapons and add some extra damage. Chasing Perfection seems bad because enhancement bonus items, except it's actually more of an always stacking buff because no one actually has more than a couple enhancement bonus items- useful if other buffs are overlapping with the other PCs' own abilities. Brilliant Blade/Brilliant Aura went from Druid only to everyone, so that's a thing.

Khedrac
2018-08-08, 03:24 AM
First up - nerveskitter (either chained or through a war weaver's weave).

My war weaver used to keep greater invisibility, fly, haste and protection from evil in the weave; chain greater magic weapon would be cast at the start of the day as well.

Also useful can be (greater) mage armour - the party beat-sticks are not usually known for their incorporeal touch AC.

If someone can cast it, barkskin is usually popular with fighter-types (we know the AC doesn't really make that much difference, but they seem to love it).
Equally, stat boost spells for any stat not already enhanced to +4 or better can be useful, though this is more of a mid-level option; especially wisdom which is usually not a good stat for melee types and boosts a poor save which is often an instant lose.

Other situational important buffs are death ward, sheltered vitality and freedom of movement - energy defenses have already been mentioned.
Not so much a buff, but always try to have resurgence available.

FInally, crowd control spells are often the best "buffs" e.g. wall of force - when the party is fighting 20 iron golems one at a time they take far less damage than all at once.

Eldariel
2018-08-08, 04:01 AM
Let's see, the obvious first.

All-day buffs:
- Greater Magic Weapon (as many times as possible, though I'd like Pearls of Power of appropriate levels in exchange to ensure I don't run out of gas)
- Magic Vestment (again, as many times as possible)
- Superior Resistance
- Mind Blank
- Polymorph Any Object (best permanent form available on doublecast; depends on where DM pulls the breaks, but many giant/monstrous humanoid forms are really good as well as particularly inevitable forms due to immunities)
- Phantom Steed

Not much to say, great value, little effort, no reason not to have them on all day. They increase everyone's raw numbers a ton. Extended, these can last 2 days or more so they're quite slot efficient as well.

Then, higher up you also get to the point where 10 min/level buffs are more or less all-day. This means you get to use:
- Resist Energy
- Magic Circle Against Evil/Law/Chaos/Good (technically not cast on allies but protects them all the same)
- Heroism (if you didn't ban enchantment and don't have access to Mind Blank yet; Mind Blank is 100 times more important)
- Freedom of Movement
- Girallon's Blessing + Fuse Arms
- Air Walk
- Spell Resistance

etc. Cast and Extend a few times for all day, or before potentially dangerous area. These last for hours on end so they're pretty reliable.

Combat buffs:
- Haste/Righteous Wrath of the Faithful (the single best party buffs in the game; extra attack at max attack bonus is just absurd value let alone everything else it does)
- Polymorph (if not on the level of permanent polymorphs yet, these can be worth it)
- See Invisibility/True Seeing (as necessary)
- Enlarge Person (on very low levels)

Mostly though, I prebuff and just focus combat actions aside from potential otherwise wasted actions on minimising team damage and making the enemies go down ASAP. Combat buffs are rarely worth the actions with the exception of few particular spells as mentioned above.

sleepyphoenixx
2018-08-08, 04:38 AM
If someone can cast it, barkskin is usually popular with fighter-types (we know the AC doesn't really make that much difference, but they seem to love it).
Equally, stat boost spells for any stat not already enhanced to +4 or better can be useful, though this is more of a mid-level option; especially wisdom which is usually not a good stat for melee types and boosts a poor save which is often an instant lose.
What, your melee types just go "oh, i'm going to fail my will saves anyway" and won't even try? That sounds like a recipe for a very short campaign to me.
Not that i'd advocate using Chasing Perfection - it's overleveled as hell even without the 50gp material component and short duration - but there's so many items that boost will saves that they should have at least a reasonable chance to make level-appropriate will saves. Especially since we're talking about high level play.



- Greater Magic Weapon (as many times as possible, though I'd like Pearls of Power of appropriate levels in exchange to ensure I don't run out of gas)
If you're arcane pool funds for a Lesser Rod of Chain Spell instead (14k vs 9k for one 3rd level pearl). Not only does the party save money you can also afford to buff up everyones Defending/Spellstrike armor spikes and similar stuff and still have 2 uses of the rod left over for other spells.


- Mind Blank
I actually don't use that one in my normal buff routine since it blocks morale bonuses - including Conviction, Heroism and of course Bardic Music.
Ideally you'd have access to Empyreal Ecstasy (which doesn't have that problem), but it's possible to get by without immunity to mind-affecting if you boost your will saves properly and pack some rerolls.


Mostly though, I prebuff and just focus combat actions aside from potential otherwise wasted actions on minimising team damage and making the enemies go down ASAP. Combat buffs are rarely worth the actions with the exception of few particular spells as mentioned above.
Yeah, the only people who can really afford to buff in combat are War Weavers.
The exception are buffs with the [Air] or [Water] descriptor since you can quicken them on the cheap with the Aural Sapphire/Pearl of the Waves optional components from CC (not that there are that many of those).

Mordaedil
2018-08-08, 05:25 AM
From playing gishes and the like, I usually love barkskin only because it is a source of AC that is otherwise really annoying to get in other ways. Using the necklace of natural armor means you sacrifice a neckslot and only druids can make them, which means they can be tough to get a hold of. The one exception I've found is a belt of priestly might from MIC that gives you the benefit of a belt of giant strength +2 and a natural AC bonus +1, and using the included rules to scale items means you can eventually get the belt to become a +8 to strength and +5 to natural AC in a single item slot.

Barkskin is a little more avoidable if you use some spells printed outside of core, such as spiderskin and the like, making it sort of moot. Of course, vanguards will still appreciate the defense boost.

Khedrac
2018-08-08, 05:28 AM
What, your melee types just go "oh, i'm going to fail my will saves anyway" and won't even try? That sounds like a recipe for a very short campaign to me.
Not that i'd advocate using Chasing Perfection - it's overleveled as hell even without the 50gp material component and short duration - but there's so many items that boost will saves that they should have at least a reasonable chance to make level-appropriate will saves. Especially since we're talking about high level play.
I'm not saying they do that, but it's not at the top of their stat boost item priority list (I expect them all to have a good vest or cloak of resistance) so wisdom is often a stat one can boost to help them make those saves.

Eldariel
2018-08-08, 05:34 AM
I actually don't use that one in my normal buff routine since it blocks morale bonuses - including Conviction, Heroism and of course Bardic Music.
Ideally you'd have access to Empyreal Ecstasy (which doesn't have that problem), but it's possible to get by without immunity to mind-affecting if you boost your will saves properly and pack some rerolls.

I find the most important part of Mind Blank to be the divination immunity. It's a total game changer in the information war forcing the use of much less direction information gathering tools and making you just plain immune to any number of things. Skipping on Mind-affecting immunity is a bit problematic with i.a. Irresistible Dance in the game (though magic immunity would work there, of course) and spontaneously accessible from Druid 9 or Sublime Chord 13.


Yeah, the only people who can really afford to buff in combat are War Weavers.
The exception are buffs with the [Air] or [Water] descriptor since you can quicken them on the cheap with the Aural Sapphire/Pearl of the Waves optional components from CC (not that there are that many of those).

Aye, unless of course you have one of the many ways to abuse metamagic in place. Or you're prebuffing and then Teleporting in or some such. At which point you can also include some Summons and buff them as well. But in an even strategic position with an encounter that lacks significant prep options, this is indeed what I've found to be the case as well.

RoboEmperor
2018-08-08, 05:34 AM
Investiture of the Hellfire Engine
Investiture of the Orthon
Investiture of the Steel Devil
Investiture of the Ice Devil

16bearswutIdo
2018-08-08, 06:25 AM
Fireball in every slot

Elkad
2018-08-08, 06:51 AM
Anticipate Teleportation.

Unless the party uses lots of tactical teleports for general movement.

sleepyphoenixx
2018-08-08, 07:27 AM
I find the most important part of Mind Blank to be the divination immunity. It's a total game changer in the information war forcing the use of much less direction information gathering tools and making you just plain immune to any number of things. Skipping on Mind-affecting immunity is a bit problematic with i.a. Irresistible Dance in the game (though magic immunity would work there, of course) and spontaneously accessible from Druid 9 or Sublime Chord 13.
True enough, though you can get by with Nondetection, Detect Scrying, False Vision and so on.
And i swear there was an item somewhere that grants only the anti-divination half of Mind Blank (kinda like a mirror of the Ring of Mental Fortitude) but i can't remember where i found it.

If you're lucky your DM will let you backport PF's Iron Circlet of Guarded Souls which grants immunity to anything that Nondetection would protect against (but with no check) and anything that targets your soul for 30,000gp.

As for spells like Irresistible Dance there's the Eye of Winking (MoF, 120,000gp) which makes you immune to mind reading and reflects charm and compulsions back at the caster. It also comes with a personal-sized AMF for 1 round 1/10 days, but that's relatively useless.
It's most of the mental protection of Mind Blank while still allowing morale effects, at a competitive price.


Anticipate Teleportation.

Unless the party uses lots of tactical teleports for general movement.
Does any party not? Between Anklets of Translocation, Shadow Cloaks, Abrupt Jaunt wizards, ToB's Shadow Hand teleports and similar (very affordable and immensely popular) options i'd say there's few fights where you actually want to have AT up.
It's great as a layer for "between-fights" scry & die defense, but if i'm worried about enemies teleporting in combat i'd rather keep my options and cast Dimensional Anchor, especially since most of my worry would be about enemies using teleport to flee.

tricktroller
2018-08-08, 08:07 AM
On top of spells there are also feats and magic items!

Spells have been gone over exhaustively already, though there are a few that I love more than others. Any way that you can extend a Sakkratar's Triple Strike will make your party very very happy.

If you can get your whole party to worship your same god then Recitation is a fantastic spell. +3 Hit, AC, and Saves.

For feats you have Protection Devotion and Healing devotion. Sacred Bonus to AC that scales with level and minor buffs when you actually have to heal someone is pretty sweet.

I also love fire shield mass because it provides you some energy dampening and deals damage to opponents who hit you.

Battle Hymn is a huge one for me because it allows a Will save reroll every single round for any member of the party who failed one. Very good when the fighter gets dominated.

To be honest I find that some of the best buffs for the party are debuffs. Yes you have SR and Saves to deal with, but if you can drop a phantom battle and hit a large group with it, you can save lots of lives.