1e Assassin Prime Requisites

[BanterDarkdirk]

1e ad&d

What are the prime requisites for the Assassin in 1e (for Dual-classing purposes)? Is it just Dex like a thief?

Thanks!

[LibraryOgre]

Assassins do not have one; it is, BTB, not possible to dual class into or out of assassin because of this.

[Thrudd]

Assassins do not have one; it is, BTB, not possible to dual class into or out of assassin because of this.
I'm not sure that's true. Assassins require 12 str, 12 dex, and 11 int. They don't get extra XP for higher scores, but they do have requisite scores. So I'd say you need 17 in str, dex, and int to dual class into it or a min 15 in all those scores to dual class out of it.

[Scots Dragon]

I'm not sure that's true. Assassins require 12 str, 12 dex, and 11 int. They don't get extra XP for higher scores, but they do have requisite scores. So I'd say you need 17 in str, dex, and int to dual class into it or a min 15 in all those scores to dual class out of it.

Principal attributes are generally accepted to be the scores that you get bonus XP for.

For the purposes of dual-classing though, I'd allow assassins to just use dexterity for this purpose as they're a subclass of thief.

[BanterDarkdirk]

Thank you all for the quick responses!

[SimperingToad]

PHB pg. 33
In order to switch from one class to another, the character must have an ability score of 15 or more in the principal attribute(s) ability of the
original class and a 17 or 18 in the principal attribute(s) of the class changed to. Note that nearly any combination of classes is thus possible,
i.e. cleric & fighter, cleric & paladin, cleric & ranger, etc. Alignment will preclude some combinations.

It would seem that the plural attribute(s) does allow for subclasses do be dual classed. Seems pretty clear. So, original class of 15+ in all principals, and 17+ in those of the class to be changed.

Personally, I would not allow two classes from the same base class category. So no cleric/druids, fighter/rangers, etc. I might be inclined to add in some bits and pieces gradually to switch the class completely over a number of levels in such cases. Can't really say that particular situation has come up, though.

[Khedrac]

Personally, I would not allow two classes from the same base class category. So no cleric/druids, fighter/rangers, etc. I might be inclined to add in some bits and pieces gradually to switch the class completely over a number of levels in such cases. Can't really say that particular situation has come up, though.
As much as I probably would agree with you, there is published material making this very much your personal house rule and not the actual rule. Module H4 Throne of Bloodstone has a load of pre-gen characters, most are for the 18th (approx.) level game, but 4 are for the 100th level game and they are mainly dual classes - a 100 paladin/100 fighter, a 100 cleric/23 druid and a 100 wizard/100 illusionist (the 4th is a deep gnome 100 thief/6 illusionist). About the worst possible way to build a level 100 party and making no attempt to keep xp totals similar, but it is what we have.

[LibraryOgre]

It would seem that the plural attribute(s) does allow for subclasses do be dual classed. Seems pretty clear. So, original class of 15+ in all principals, and 17+ in those of the class to be changed.


I saw that, but note that the two subclasses noted... paladin and ranger... both have defined principle attributes in their descriptions. Assassins, illusionists, and monks do not.

[BigBadHarve]

While the difference between Prime Requisites and Attribute requirements are clear, I don't see it as invalid to consider them as one and the same for dual-classing purposes.

It still makes dual classing difficult for those classes with multiple requirements, which I would guess was the intent.

So it's possible for your fighter to become a monk, but you'd better have a 17 in Strength, Dexterity, Wisdom, and Constitution.... in addition to being lawful.

Monk to Wizard would be simpler on the stat scale - your Str, Dex, and Wis are already 15, you'd just need to ensure your Con was 15 and Int was 17. Then you have the added challenge of keeping your Monk level should you get challenged. (Of course, if the DM is really going BtB, once you cease to be a Monk you lose your abilities anyway... so it might be totally moot)

Same with an Assassin - dual classing into an Assassin would require a 17 in Dex, Con and Int as well as an evil alignment.

Those aren't easy feats. Thus making is possible, but unlikely. Whereas switching over to a core class from another core class is much, much easier.

As a DM I'd allow any of the above, but I don't see it as my obligation to make it easier by fudging the requirements. If it's not a path your character can follow then that's all she wrote.

[Particle_Man]

Since the text reads "nearly any combination of classes is possible" I think that RAI should allow assassins to dual-class.

That reminds me of an idea I have for a 13th level assassin that goes deep cover to dual-class as an illusionist (also neatly avoiding the whole "assassinate my boss to level up higher and then watch my back for the rest of my life as my underlings contemplate doing the same" issue). Illusionists even have a high starting age so it doesn't look too weird.

When the illusionist reaches level 14 level they both get access to 7th level spells (the highest they can get) and can start assassinating again! They even can backstab for quintuple damage. Fun times!

Such a character would need Str 15, Int 17 and Dex 17 (but the latter two are good for illusionists and assassins both - assassins get crazy bonus languages at high level if they have a high int).

[CE DM]

Assassins do not have one; it is, BTB, not possible to dual class into or out of assassin because of this.

agreed on the first part, but on the second...uh, NO

Particle man: I'd allow the character to be an illusionist(ex assassin) with 12+ STR, 15+ INT & 16+ dex. 17+ int perhaps, to keep the INTENT behind the DC rules. illusionists do not have PR's either.

Still, Gygax clearly treats int & dex as them for illusionists, and STR/INT/DEX as them for assassins. Up to the DM though, nobody agrees with even Gary on everything.

BigbadHarve: con is certainly NOT required for a monk (well, beyond 11). It's also not for a ranger, despite them needing a 14 to be ranger at all. Subject to DM fiat, again, of course, as always, but it's silly to punish monks, assassins or illusionists

[BigBadHarve]

BigbadHarve: con is certainly NOT required for a monk (well, beyond 11). It's also not for a ranger, despite them needing a 14 to be ranger at all. Subject to DM fiat, again, of course, as always, but it's silly to punish monks, assassins or illusionists


I guess it all boils down to how you rule on what it means by major attributes when it comes to Dual Classing.

I always took it to mean the required minimums if creating the class from scratch.

Of course, that makes dual classing into a specialty class exceedingly difficult, which I took as a design choice rather than an oversight.

Now granted, in 30+ years of playing, this has literally NEVER come up. I haven't ever seen anyone dual class... and on ruminating about your comment I am inclined to go the other way and consider only the 'prime requisites' - that being anything that awards an XP bonus - as the major attribute considered when dual classing.

What that would translate to would be:

Stats needed are 15 to leave the current class, 17 to enter the new one when dual classing:

Fighters need Strength
Clerics need Wisdom
Thieves need Dexterity
Magic Users need Intelligence

Paladins Need Strength and Wisdom
Rangers need Strength, Wisdom, and Intelligence
Druids need Wisdom and Charisma

Using this interpretation - Since they have no prime requisites that award bonus XP, Assassins, Monks, and Illusionists need only their minimum required ability scores to enter or leave (plus whatever modifier if they are coming or going from a profession that has a 'Prime Requisite')

In laying it out, I think I prefer it this way.. it would make it easier for say a Cleric to really go hardcore and become a Monk. He'd need only have the requirements to make Monk at the outset. Whereas a Monk seeking to be a Cleric would still need that 17 Wisdom to switch classes.

Either way, Ranger is the most difficult class to switch into (without DM allowance on the stat requirements)

[Particle_Man]

This interpretation is also consistent with bards, although they are their own thing.

So the 13th assassin dual-classing into illusionist becomes slightly easier. I am cool with that. Though my chances of playing one are slim.